Subsonic Hunting Calibers

Discussion in 'Guns' started by Proton Entropy, Mar 8, 2020.

0/5, 0 votes

  1. Proton Entropy

    Proton Entropy Well-Known Member
      70/115

    Blog Posts:
    0
    I'm thinking of switching out my silenced Tikka 6.5x55 Swedish and would like suggestions on calibers and rifle models that perform well in subsonic.
    I want something light, mainly to shoot red deer or hog with.
    My idea is to have ability to hunt undetected when SHTF.
    Also it should be fairly cheap and easy to reload, and I need to find a good silencer for it.

    Kaliber ideas:
    .44 Magnum
    9,3x57 Mauser
    .357 Magnum
    450 Bushmaster

    Rifles:
    Ruger 77
    Mossberg Patriot 450 Bushmaster
    Henry Big Boy Steel
     
    Caribou, TMT Tactical and Sourdough like this.
  2. Caribou

    Caribou Master Survivalist
      250/345

    Blog Posts:
    0
    One trick is to load heavier bullets. They naturally come out of the muzzle slower and hold their speed better. The added weight also gives better penetration. You might do better with a .38 rather than a .357. The shorter case might work better than the longer case as too little powder can be as dangerous as too much powder. The same is true with the .44.
     
  3. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
      485/575

    Blog Posts:
    0
    For simple reloading......stick with straight wall case, you also get much longer case life.

    I actually went through the same goal that you currently are. In the end, I finally decided that if you only fire one shot it is impossible for others to know the direction it was fired from.

    From that point I went with rifles firing pistol cartridges, and as Caribou suggested using the heaviest bullet available at subsonic speed. I also went with H&R single shot rifles.
    There are other ways to achieve the same goal, one being to use a pistol cartridge adapter in a 12 ga. single shot shotgun.

    For light weight and easy to hide in a backpack. I have a H&R rifle (Limited run) with 16" barrel, chambered in .300 AAC Blackout. They offered them with a factory scope base. They weigh less then 4 pounds and quickly disassemble to 16" compact package. And they also came with a threaded muzzle. Sweet piece of machinery for well under $300.00 Yankee Dollars. And everyone makes 220 grain subsonic .300 AAC Blackout Ammo of very high quality.

    What is funny about my whole effort in this project is, my friends kept saying I was a dumbass because there are no people here to hear a gunshot. On top of which I generally just shoot from the cabin window.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2020
  4. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
      330/345

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Just curious, why do you need subsonic round (thus suppressor) for hunting? Is there any specific regulation / law pertinent to noise level there?
     
    Caribou, TMT Tactical and Sourdough like this.
  5. Proton Entropy

    Proton Entropy Well-Known Member
      70/115

    Blog Posts:
    0
    No, no regulations, but it's a quite small patch of land (3-4 hectares/10 acres) and I want to be able to fell game without anyone noticing for several reasons.
    One is that I'm planning on "poaching" outside season if there's some sort of situation where we can't buy food in stores.

    Another is it's close enough to wake some neighbors when shooting my 308 in the night when hog hunting.

    Also I'm a better shot with my suppressor since it remove most of the recoil. Shooting the 6.5x55 suppressed is almost like shooting a 22lr :)
     
    TMT Tactical and Sourdough like this.
  6. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
      480/575

    Blog Posts:
    0
    I liked the Henry Big Boy Steel ---- 44 mag, 300 gr. XTP -- G1 BC = 245. It is on my list. Caribou and Sourdough have offered excellent advice. While I am not fond of single shot firearms, they can get the job done. For subsonic the 300 Blackout is very popular. The 308 diameter bullet offers a huge selection of possibilities to match to a rifle. I would avoid semi-auto if silence is your goal. Suppressed bolt action rifles make the least amount of noise. There are a huge selection of suppressors available. It is also legal to build your own suppressor but you still have to file and pay for the tax stamp, to use it legally.
     
    Proton Entropy and Sourdough like this.
  7. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
      352/460

    Blog Posts:
    0
    If you want to stay with a centerfire caliber I would recommend the 300 Blackout. I use my AAC 762SD suppressor with mine and it is below the hearing range of a 22 rifle. For red deer size animals with a light skull build like red deer I would actually recommend a suppressed 22LR bolt action. If you have a night vision scope you can hunt at night, up close and as silent as you can get. My savage Mark II (with subsonic ammo), is so quiet that all I hear is the round impacting on target. At night, no one knows I'm even there.

    Dale
     
    Caribou, TMT Tactical and Sourdough like this.
  8. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
      510/575

    Blog Posts:
    0


    Dog gone right!!


    This was a wake up call for me.....big time!!

    I was trying to down load some .41 Magnums for a Blackhawk pistol...and discovered the powder I was using did not download well but instead works best near full case capacities. H110.

    I got what some call a "Squib Load." Talk about a nervous moment.....I was not sure by the subdued Pop...that the bullet had even gotten out of the barrel. Fortunately I had a fiberglass rod which I could stick down the barrel and check for obstructions all the way back to the cylinder.

    Could have been disastrous had I not caught it and loaded another round in an Obstructed barrel.

    Lessons learned....but agree...

    Too little powder can be as dangerous as too much powder.....

    Be Warned.

    Watcherchris
    Not an Ishmaelite.
     
    Caribou, Dalewick and TMT Tactical like this.
  9. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
      410/460

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Shultz & Larsen, excellent moderated centre fire rifles in a variety of calibers. If you can find them they're the absolute dogs bollocks for larger game. Light weight and screw cut for mods.
     
    Caribou and TMT Tactical like this.
  10. Proton Entropy

    Proton Entropy Well-Known Member
      70/115

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Thanks for the helpful feedback, especially the safety stuff.
    Regarding the calibers etc there's some strict regulations on what game I can hunt with different ammo in Sweden, and what I can use with a supressor.

    I cannot use my suppressor with "class 3-4" ammunition, meaning bullet lighter than 3.2 gram (49 grains) and no lower than 800 Joule@100 meters. 22LR is class 4 so not possible to get a supressor licence for, and not allowed to shoot anything bigger than rabbits with.

    Today I'm contemplating .45 colt, but I think I'll stick with what I have until the Corona virus scare stabilizes. (Cases are increasing 20%/day right now)
     
    Caribou and Dalewick like this.
  11. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
      525/575

    Blog Posts:
    2
    On a slightly different thought, I highly recommend 1/8" stainless steel cable. If you make a large loop on the ends and place it on a game trail at about head high for a deer they will snare themselves and then you can silently kill them with a spear. I also highly recommend spears for a lot of other things by the way. If you want to go all out attach the cable o a spring snare type set up with a sapling for the spring and it will kill the deer for you. If you don't want to do that another step up is to use cable locks that once pulled tight don't back up.

    Bows and crossbows also make for relatively silent kills and pellet guns that are not the 1000FPS models are also pretty quiet and good for small game.

    I've actually done some reloading towards more silent shooting rounds and found that you get much better results with longer barrels with sealed chambers. Revolvers, even with a silencer attached are not all that silent. the gas escaping between the cylinder and the barrel lets some of the sound escape. We did manage to make a few quieter 45 ACPs but you had to either load them single shot or extensively modify the gun. I never did get a 38/357 round the was very quiet out of my 7 1/2" Blackhawk. Even on the 45ACP conversions, the slide slap makes more noise than you would think.

    If you want to get the best possible effect I recommend a break-action like Rossie or H&R in 44-mag. The 44-mag can be down loaded or you can use 44 Special and down load them and still have a decent stopper. they make a hard cast 320-grain bullet that would be quite a stopper even at lower velocities. The longer barrel will burn up the powder and that will further lower the noise effect. In a near-perfect world your powder load will be completely burned when the bullet is about one inch from exiting the barrel.

    https://www.pennbullets.com/44/44-caliber.html
     
    1. Dalewick
      I don't know if your interested, but you can make washer snare locks (or purchase) that will not relax and usually kill the animal in the snare. I use locking snares for predators (3/32 " cable), during trapping season (cold weather) and have accidently killed a number of deer in them over the years. I have used 1/8" cable for black bear, wolves and hogs over the years which are much harder on the snares than deer are.

      Dale
       

      Attached Files:

      Dalewick, Mar 9, 2020
  12. Caribou

    Caribou Master Survivalist
      250/345

    Blog Posts:
    0
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  13. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
      525/575

    Blog Posts:
    2
    VERY interesting! I looked at the 357 mag and in almost every case you started losing velocity after 16". This is sort of what I thought because may Winchester Trapper has a 16" barrel and my near but slightly lower speed reloads always seemed somewhat less ear-blasting.

    The washer cable lock is great too I am going to make some. I had other plans for locks but this is even easier and better.
     
    Caribou and TMT Tactical like this.
  14. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
      515/575

    Blog Posts:
    0
    upload_2020-3-10_21-18-8.png

    Powder load? Well, enough to make sure it gets out the barrel!

    Here is the silencer I use:

    upload_2020-3-10_21-20-16.png
     
  15. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
      525/575

    Blog Posts:
    2
    Cool, now if I can just find a rifle chambered for the 505 Gibbs I will have a subsonic sledgehammer for big game. OR I guess I could load it for a Barrett 50 BMG rifle...that would feel a little sacreligeous though.
     
  16. Proton Entropy

    Proton Entropy Well-Known Member
      70/115

    Blog Posts:
    0
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  17. randyt

    randyt Master Survivalist
      385/460

    Blog Posts:
    0
    I have a big lever action in 50-110 Winchester. Here it is compared to a 45-70.

    3078b1a6715cc4539e5bb5b49cee465d.jpeg
     
    Proton Entropy and TMT Tactical like this.
    1. TMT Tactical
      Got many T-Rex's running around in your area? LOL
       
      TMT Tactical, Mar 21, 2020
      randyt likes this.
  18. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
      515/575

    Blog Posts:
    0
  19. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
      515/575

    Blog Posts:
    0
    No one should make light of the .50-110 Winchester -- especially in the lever-action repeating rifle. Such weaponry is particularly necessary when hunting rabbits.

    When speaking of hunting such ferocious creatures, I am of course referring to the egg-laying Leporidae Gargantuous. How this hideous creature became the origin of the Easter Bunny legend is anyone's guess. I am not of course referring to the common rabbit / hare. A .22 rimfire will dispatch the latter. But giant bunnies are bad! We all know this and fear their random aggression.

    I myself load 180 round nose .308 cartridges in the rifle I carry on my daily constitutional walks. Giant bunnies lurk in the forests and meadows nearby. I must tell you that I feel decidedly under-gunned in doing so. RandyT, on the other hand, has chosen a far more reasonable defensive weapon in his .50-110 Winchester lever-action rabbit-rifle.

    In the following artist's depiction, we witness the horrible 1934 attack on Hiram Thomas and his daughter Amy -- may God's Mercy be upon them in Heaven. Amy had been a bit of a bad girl in having stolen one of the rabbit's eggs, however she did not deserve such a horrible ending beneath the behemoth's bunny paws.

    1a3b55c78dad7ff2971d2da7d0d54af3.jpeg
     
  20. randyt

    randyt Master Survivalist
      385/460

    Blog Posts:
    0
    It's a long story but I didn't choose the 50-110, it chose me.
     
  21. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
      510/575

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Any of you heard weather black powder/Pyrodex is flying off the shelves....I've not noticed...but I do know about smokless and ammo running off the shelves.

    Watcherchris
    Not an Ishmaelite.
     
    randyt, TMT Tactical and Caribou like this.
  22. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
      515/575

    Blog Posts:
    0
    50 - 110 thump factor visual aids





     
    randyt, TMT Tactical and Caribou like this.
  23. Proton Entropy

    Proton Entropy Well-Known Member
      70/115

    Blog Posts:
    0
    I suspect that store may have made their own caliber? Never heard of it before.
    Probably use those projectiles you mentioned @Old Geezer
     
    randyt and TMT Tactical like this.
  24. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
      510/575

    Blog Posts:
    0
    That is a serious lever rifle in .50-110...calibration.

    While I have little use for something of that uncommon a calibration...no doubt about it's power to deliver very very serious energy at lower velocities....with that bullet weight.

    That is exactly what I learned in shooting my .50 Hawken cap lock rifle....that one does not necessarily need hypersonic velocities.

    However....the problem with that kind of rifle is finding ammunition. Only a handful of places would stock such an rare calibration.

    Were it me... as I do with my Thompson Contender in 7mm TCU calibration...I would be stocking up on empty brass wherever I could find it and rolling my own ammo.

    Fortunately for me 7mm TCU, though no longer factory made, is nothing more than a .223 brass necked up to 7mm or .284 diameter.

    However ..again....that brass is pretty much one of a kind ...and so too the .348 Winchester. Exclusive vendors for this brass would have to be found if one was to keep plenty of ammo on hand via reloading. I expect both calibrations .50-110 and .348 Winchester can get expensive should one have to buy factory ammo for it.


    There are places wherein one can purchase or order new brass for those calibrations..but it is not something kept in many reloading stocked stores. One would need to go to more exclusive vendors for brass...and with the WEB....they can be found out there.

    This is something capable of being overcome for the knowledgeable prepper..pre staging materials.

    Those are pretty rifles.....and hard hitters too.....lots of foot pounds of energy delivered....serious foot poundage.


    Oh....one more thing...

    I have the handbook of cartridge conversions and both .348 and .50-110 are not easy to convert from other cases or hard stock....rather complex as compared to other calibrations..but it can be done for the dedicated in the art.

    Hence I say put back plenty of empty brass should one choose to roll one's own ammo...or plenty of factory ammo if one can find it...also afford it.

    This is why, for the most part, I choose my tools in a commonly available calibration for prepping. Preferably something available coast to coast.

    7mm TCU and .41 Magnum are my exceptions and I have put back plenty of Starline Brass for my .41 magnums and also .223/5.56mm is very easy to be found.


    Keep them in the X ring....

    My non Ishmaelite .02,
    Watcherchris
     
    Caribou, TMT Tactical and randyt like this.
  25. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
      510/575

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Oh....about the 7mm TCU caliber for which I previously posted.

    Handgun hunters have found that the .223 is very lacking in energy delivered for the handgun hunter.

    Over the years people have experimented with converting .223 brass to accommodate a 6mm bullet...also a 6.5mm bullet and now also a 7mm bullet...

    All this in an attempt to get more energy delivered on target for hunting... even if it means a velocity drop.

    And this is definitely what someone has done with the .50-110 rifle....serious energy delivered even at slower velocities.

    This is also the rationale behind the 300 black out...energy delivered versus velocity.

    Don't let anyone BS you....warp speed is not everything.....at real high velocities it even tends to burn out barrels quickly.


    My non Ishmaelite .02,
    Watcherchris
     
  26. randyt

    randyt Master Survivalist
      385/460

    Blog Posts:
    0
    it's certainly not a "survival" rifle but more of a fun gun. Even so I have a good supply of cases, bullets and bullet molds.
    The 348 is a dog IMO, I have a Winchester 71 in that round. I originally picked up the rifle to convert to Johnson's 50 Alaskan but things pulled me in other directions. I do lots of things for fun.
     
  27. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
      515/575

    Blog Posts:
    0
    People like to experiment. Some calibers, you just know that you are going to have to roll-your-own.

    Y'know, were I living in Alaska and had reason to fear running into a giant bear, I'd be carrying a repeating rifle in a large caliber capable of giving me some chance of survival. The bullets would be heavy and flat-nosed. Fifty caliber? Sure, why not!

    Cases for .50-110:

    https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/139/9/CASE-50-110

    https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index...5+.50+-+110+Winchester+Bertram+Cartridge+Case

    https://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-components/brass/rifle-brass/index.htm?k=50-110&ksubmit=y

    Bullets 50-110

    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010401560

    Bullet molds for the fifty (.512)

    https://www.midwayusa.com/s?TargetL...istedItemsPerPage=0&CustomerSelectedSort=True

    Gas checks for .50 bullets -- if you are putting some speed on a bullet, even a hard alloy bullet, you'll want to use gas checks, else you'll lead the barrel royal.

    https://www.sagesoutdoors.com/50-lr-caliber-gator-gas-checks/

    Cases for .348 Winchester

    https://www.brownells.com/reloading/brass/rifle-brass/348-winchester-brass-case-prod105568.aspx

    https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/76070

    Here's an interesting article on the .50-110
    https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/50-110-winchester/

    "The .50-110 fired a lighter 300gr bullet nearly 300fps faster than the 405gr bullet the .45-70 used and had a correspondingly flatter trajectory. For instance, with a 200 yard zero, a bullet fired from the .45-70 would hit nearly three feet lower than a bullet fired from the .50-110 at 500 yards."

    "It is even possible to make your own .50-110 Winchester brass by resizing .348 Winchester brass. The cartridge also uses a standard large rifle primer."
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  28. randyt

    randyt Master Survivalist
      385/460

    Blog Posts:
    0
    I have a few boxes of brass. here's some unprimed brass un opened new in box, often wondered what it may be worth. have no intention of selling but am a curious sort.

    2898440e193ff30c50468e7eada64a60.jpeg
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  29. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
      510/575

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Yeah....Olde Geezer....if I lived in Alaska I too would have to own something with a big and heavy diameter...weight bullet.

    My .357 Magnum revolver and or lever gun would not suffice...even my .41 Magnum up there.

    .45-70 or bigger...

    Now that I think about it....you do not even hear about the .444 Marlin much now days....but more about the .45-70.

    I knew a fellow who bought a 14 inch long Thompson Contender barrel in .444 Marlin. Wow!! Talk about a glutton for punishment.

    Mine in .35 Remington is a bruiser...big time. Very glad I did not try to further go that route in the Contender.


    You know....in retrospect......our forefathers..had some really big ones hanging ...to go out in the scrub with single shot cap or flintlock...in any caliber...wherein such big and dangerous game abounded.

    My hat is off to them....


    Watcherchris
    Not an Ishmaelite.
     
    TMT Tactical and Caribou like this.
  30. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
      515/575

    Blog Posts:
    0
    I am a "gun nut" specifically having obsessions about always having a rifle nearby. I've a BRNO '98 sitting behind me as I write. The thing was re-barreled with an FN 7.62 NATO. A friend turned down the bolt and equipped it with a commercial safety. Plus, he found and sold me a laminated stock. Locking scope-rings were placed -- and oh-Lord! are they ever tight -- had to rotate the rings into their bases with a pole. I put a used scope on it that has a #4 German reticle. It is a tack-driver / minute-of-angle machine.

    Given the above, you'll understand when I tell you that I went sort'a OCD yesterday finding info about North American big bore blasters. Looked at the 45-70 Magnum, 450 Marlin, the 444 Marlin, and a few others. The thread mentioning the .50-110 set-off my obsession. Gotta watch recoil for I've had to have both rotator cuffs repaired. One shoulder was in catastrophic condition. The shoulders weren't due to rifle recoil. The puppies just wore out. I'm back to using the rototiller, though.

    I've seen black bears in the wild. However I saw a HUGE boar bear in a zoo a few years back whose size simply astounded me. I thought to myself, "How does one drop such a monster?!" Then to consider the brown bear, which is far larger than the black bear. Yep, I would want something just this side of a cannon were I out and about in such environs.

    I was also looking into slug shotgun loads, however for several reasons, I remained with the large-bore rifle as the better solution. Slugs for black bear, sure; however, for a big brown bear, one needs a repeating cannon. The bullet must be capable of breaking bones and keep going on to take out the boiler-works.

    Here's a shotgun load with a whopper projectile:

    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1002073452/

    Porported: 12 ga., Black Magic Magnum, 602-grain slug, carrying 3,000 ft.-lbs. of energy at 1500 fps

    Then there's your 10ga with a 766 grain artillery shell
    https://www.sportsmansguide.com/pro...gauge-3-1-2-1-3-4-oz-slugs-5-rounds?a=1594540

    Federal claims that the 766 grainer will do 1280 ft/sec. So let me do my calculations ... that's 2787 ft/lbs of energy. Hmmm, well it could drive deep. Still, I'd stick with a big-bore rifle.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2020
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  31. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
      510/575

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Wow!!!!

    10 Gauge can be found...???? Do they even make 10 gauge shotguns anymore??? I expect one would have to special order them if they are even still being made...


    Talk about punishment!!!!

    Watcherchris
    Not an Ishmaelite
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  32. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
      515/575

    Blog Posts:
    0
Loading...
Similar Threads Forum Date
A Hunting Movie On 13 March The Hangout Feb 11, 2020
Florida Teaches, Encourages Invasive Snake Hunting Hunting / Fishing / Trapping Jan 26, 2020
The Worm Turns!!! The Dangers Of Hunting Domestic Stock After Shtf. The Hangout Oct 11, 2019
Concealable Revolvers For Hunting Or Defense, To Hundreds Of Yards. Guns Aug 31, 2019
San/bushman Natural Poisons For Survival Hunting Hunting With Primitive Tools Mar 30, 2019
Bow Hunting Warthog Hunting Mar 27, 2019
Hunting Going On In My Neighborhood Hunting / Fishing / Trapping Dec 2, 2018
In A Shtf Scenario, Are You More Concerned About Defense, Or Hunting? Guns, Knives, Tools, Etc. Nov 2, 2018
Hunting Knives General Q&A Jul 10, 2018
Trapping Vs. Hunting Hunting / Fishing / Trapping Nov 25, 2017

Share This Page