Survival Rifles

Silly me, but I see no insurrection involving air rifles no matter how powerful they are. Robbing a liquor store with a pellet rifle, no, just doesn't come to mind. Assassination via an air rifle ... hmmmm ... no.

Mommy government herding her little children so they won't ever get hurt? Kind'a sounds like it.

Liberty is dangerous to be sure. But that's for adults.
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A quallity air gun is almost a must in my survival arsenal. It is great for feeding yourself. One person doesn’t need a big animal to make a meal. With a pellet rifle birds and squirels and all sorts of small game are easy to harvest. They are quieter than a 22lr round. You can easily carry several thousand pellets or even BBs for the 177 caliber rifles. THAT is a lot of small meals. A 22 caliber airgun is a little more powerful and will take rabbits. I have a pump powered crossman pistol and it is also great for small critters.

 

One cannot 100% count on a .22 LR to pierce a skull on larger game or humans. This is particularly true if the bullet hits with a glancing blow. A high-powered air rifle pellet (illegal in the UK) might -- and I do mean "might" -- penetrate the skull of a female or a child if the path of the pellet were straight-on. No hit-man is going to attempt a wet-job with an air rifle unless it is a specialty air rifle with more power than a very powerful common-mechanism air rifle. Professional killers don't trust .22 LR firearms -- that's only in the movies.

Air rifles for small game? Sure, just the ticket! Dead is dead.

The American Constitution's 2nd Amendment is NOT about owning a firearm for sport or recreation. Our Second Amendment is there so that the government will fear the people and not visa-versa.

Voting actually means next to nothing if the system has been corrupted. Communist countries allow their people to vote ... for approved candidates. Tens of thousands of dead people vote in U.S. elections. American elections have been glaringly corrupt for waaaayyyyy over 150 / 200 years. Urban machine politics is at least 150 years old. Now instead of just handing out money -- which still happens -- the money is channeled through a fog of fake companies and boondoggle government projects.
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Most preppers have the following as far as rifles categories go:

> The air rifle category. Most folk have .177 caliber air rifles, but the .22 cal with more energy is becoming more popular.

> The .22 LR family (rimfire) -- usually both in bolt action with a scope or aperture sights for accurate shots and also one in semi-auto config. for rapid follow-up shots should that situation be the item of the day. The best estimates are that over seven million have been sold; 7,000,000 = beyond popular.

> The varmint rifle corral for dog/coyote/groundhog-sized critters. The .22 mag and .17 Remington are rimfire favorites. They are shorter range cartridges. There's dozens of centerfire varmint caliber cartridges -- these are for shooting at distance. Every person will tell you which is "the best". Ask fishermen which is the best fly or lure -- you'll get over ten thousand answers. Some folk buy an AR-15 semi-auto receiver with Picatinny rail atop and then put a heavy barrel on it for accuracy. The Picatinny rail allows them to mount whichever scope choice they wish -- this is super-popular.

> The center-fire rifle category for larger game, for "reaching out there", and for perimeter defense in a SHTF scenario. Often a prepper will have two center-fire rifles just as in the case with the rim-fire class. One needs an accurate rifle with scope. The bolt-action is almost the universal solution to the latter. Then, one needs a fast-swinging carbine with multiple shot capability. As to this niche, here in the States, the two big categories in carbines are the semi-automatic and the lever-action (the pump rifle seems a bit of a topic unto itself and receives little attention). Being a history-buff / nostalgia kind'a guy, I like lever-actions -- too, they are very popular in mountainous areas east of the Mississippi (in rural areas among those native to the region, you'll find a lever in almost every household). Semi-autos are particularly popular with current and retired military & police -- the AR platform is that with which they trained, so that's their first go-to rifle configuration.

 

When the AR.s come in handy:

 

We definitely have a serious hog problem in East Texas. They are big, run in huge groups, and will just destroy a garden or yard in one night. In the event of hard times though they will be a big source of meat.

 

If one wishes to fence-in their garden, hogs will route underneath the fence like warf rats.

If one uses netting with extra width so that the netting curves out to the outside, the hogs will come in stand on that extra netting and not understand that they'd have to go back a couple of feet to begin their tunneling. All of this would be horribly expensive.

Electric fencing for horses has more voltage than electric fencing for cattle. I wonder if that would work against hogs.

OK, so I went looking. This company has a product and some interesting input as to how to set-up the fencing:

https://www.zarebasystems.com/learning-center/animal-selector/feral-hogs

What I've read confirms that regular fences work for a while, but the feral hawgs eventually get under them. Putting barbed wire at the bottom level prevents to some degree the digging behavior of the pigs, but still ...

Seems electric fencing may be the way to go, but the energy Watts / joules has to be high.
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OK, so this could get expensive, but ... How about getting a receiver and kit, then order a custom barrel chambered for the 22-250 and the rifling at a fast twist rate. Or, read about the .224 Valkyrie.

https://ammo.com/comparison/224-valkyrie-vs-22-250

https://criterionbarrels.com/products/howa/howa-pre-fit-barrel/?v=7516fd43adaa




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https://www.x-caliber.net/custom-ar-barrel



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https://kriegerbarrels.com/caliber#ar15

 

OK, so I'm like a skipping record player. Over and over, "Lever actions are not obsolete." Can't help myself.

Aimed fire is effective fire. "Spray and pray" will NOT win the day. And hey kids, levers are plenty fast.

Quickly here, let me add a word about rifle slings. Slings help you carry your rifle; however, the rifle sling is also there to massively improve your accuracy. I have no rifles that do not have a sling. My lever actions certainly have them also.

Hunters and shooters in the latter 1800s, liked having their handgun and their rifle chambered for the same cartridge. Ammo was not cheap back then and it sure isn't cheap today. Other members here on this site really appreciate levers in handgun calibers. More manufacturers are coming out with lever rifles, many of which are chambered in .357 and .44 magnum -- Henry Arms has one in .41 Magnum, a great caliber.

Don't go out and buy a .44 magnum just because it is more powerful than the .357 mag. If you live, hunt, and hike in bear country, then the .44 mag. may actually be the better choice. Know that many (most) .44 magnum loads will fly through a human like a hot knife through butter and NOT expand. The .357 mag is plenty enough to kill white tail deer at short range and it is as effective of a defense round against human attackers as you will find. Out of a rifle, a .357 round will make a mess out of a human. I wouldn't want to be the coroner.

Here's some vid.s I've recently found and have value. Beginners in the rifle/handgun combo world might like these and find them instructive. I d'know, I like to promote this sort of survival-thinking. I'm always searching for ideas. I'm old, but I hope to die going on learning. It's one reason our Creator created us. We are very limited in this world, unlimited in the next world, but we gotta learn to learn and come to appreciate the discipline of learning in this plane of existence (not a happy place, but go figure).










Rifle sling usage video, this fellow has his technique. His is not the only technique. One thing is for sure, your sling, properly-fitted is your bestest buddy. Not using your rifle sling to increase accurate shot placement is a terrible mistake. Here is an exception, for home defense, you may not have time to use a sling; plus, using a sling places your weapon too far forward which can result in the felon grabbing your rifle. I use a shotgun for home defense, but I always have a repeating rifle should I have to exit my dwelling to engage in combat with multiple assailants = we're talking SHTF situations.

Search results

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=use+of+rifle+sling+for+accurate+shooting

One technique. This young fellow makes some useful points in a short period of time. I don't use his specific hold, but one uses the rifle sling hold that matches their need, their body's physical configuration, and that hold that gives them the best accuracy and shooting performance. The instructor here is bringing up his weapon to his shoulder/shooting-position for demonstration -- not for speed. When you get good, mounting your rifle to your shoulder firmly becomes muscle memory and is executed VERY quickly.



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General survival tips.

Alcohol, sulfur, & salt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ixuPCy7u2c

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I've a pump Rossi in .22 magnum; had my gunsmith polish the chamber. It is accurate; however if you wish to go rapid-fire, it is awesome. The .22 magnum tears-up / destroys meat. My Rossi .22 magnum is decades old. It shoots true; great, I don't need to know anything else. I've several firearms in .22 mag. ... I like the cartridge. The .22 mag is for game heavier than what the .22 LR can handle and for game closer in range than what the .223 can reach out and hit -- coyote and hogs @ short distance, 100 yrds, maybe 200 yards. If you gotta drop medium game at 200+ yards, then move up to the .223 / 5.56 NATO.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/TUSjkwGopdw

This fellow is actually only slow-firing his rifle:



coconut kills ; .22 mag vs. .17 HMR; @ 50yrd, 100 yrd (91 meters), and 200 yards (183 meters); I like this fellow

 

In the realm of survival rifles, there's a place for black rifles. Just gotta remember that the ARs are marginal deer rifles unless fitted for a scope and fitted with a heavy barrel ("H-Bar", whatever designation). Soviet and ChiCom SKS and Kalishnikovs are a rather poor choice. Some old Soviet rifles have milled receivers, yet most are crap. ChiCom are all crap and their springs are temporary, gotta replace them.

Then, there's the "camp carbines" in handgun calibers -- especially 9mm and .45 Automatic. These are decent "handy rifles" / pickup truck rifles. These could get you out of a scrape, but you'll still need a real rifle for distance shooting. But hey, they have their place. Ruger is currently making them and others are coming out with them.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=new+9mm+....ines&t=newext&atb=v320-1&iax=images&ia=images




Always get high-capacity magazines with these due to their purpose and due to
the reality that high capacity magazines are going to be banned.

These puppies, in addition to being camp carbines/handy-rifles/truck guns can
serve to be initial riot rifles along side your shotguns loaded with buckshot.

These are decent companion rifles to your semi-automatic handguns. Select a rifle(s)
that uses the same magazine as your handgun(s). Interchangeability is important.

These are better pin-down weapons than .22 automatics. Pin-down your aggressors
until your cohort can flank and neutralize them. Unfortunately post-SHTF, this
scenario will be horribly likely. Buy lots of 9mm and .45 Auto (your choice) boxes/cases
for this horrid reality. Terrible topic, but you can't pretend it away. Times are getting
really, really strange/sick. I couldn't imagine this when I was a child. I'm so glad that
my beloved parents and grandparents are not here to see these abominations.

Remember, have parachute, rocket-launced, hanging flares to light-up your enemy at night. Shoot them behind your enemy. For heaven's sake, don't light-up your own position. Shut down all lighting that illuminates you and your cohort.

https://www.google.com/search?q=boa...kFHSu5DVQQ0pQJegQIAhAG&biw=1325&bih=893&dpr=1
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I'm a big fan of the 357mag/38 Special in both the revolvers and the lever action rifles. Where I live most shots will be less than a 100 yards. Most places except highway right of ways are forested and brushy. That is about all you need here for the deer and hogs. I'm not saying that the 357 is the BEST deer rifle but I don't want to have to tote a half dozen guns around. My the rifles for this will be a 22lr, a 357 mag and a 30-30. LOL, all are lever actions. My one exception might be my 10-22 rifle.

A lot of people go down the more militarisit path. I know that I used to be that way myself. The thing is that I'm not going to be out looking for trouble. Where I live I could get by with my pump 12 ga. I have three barrels for it. The rifle barrel is 20" and amazinly accurat out to a hundred yards. Then there is an 18+" riot barrel and a longer barrel with three choke tubes.

Fishing is the easiest way to feed a few people. It is high in protein and usually fairly easy to catch enough to eat every day. I am fortunte in that I live in an area surounded by various waters. LOL I probably have a few hundred thousand hooks and enough other tackle to last a lifetime. I love to fish and have three boats and more gear than I want to admit to.

I'm going to be a little leary of hunting for a while when things first go down the tubes. The woods are going to be filled with idiots that are not experianced hunters and they WILL shoot at anything that moves. Hell I was shot at one time by an idiot that swore that he thought I was a freaking SQUIRREL!!! I'm 6'2" and weigh about 220 pounds .A SQUIRREL???? What kind of squirrel was he hunting???

One of the things that I am most concerned about is the mental shape that a lot of people are going to be in. Some people are going to go stark raving mad as soon as they realize that this is not going to e a short term thing. Also when the entire nation is down there is not going to be anybody coming to bail them out and they are on their OWN.

I have seen people basically getting desperate after a few days without power after a hurricane. On day three the local officials were handing out food and water and the line for the free goodies was several miles long!!!

 

Verily verily Agree with TexDanm...on fishing..,

Also verily verily agree with TexDanm on the lever rifle.

I own three Henrys....in .22 LR and two pistols...a Ruger Government and a 9 shot heritage revolver..and like all of them.

And also verily verily agree with TexDanm on te .38 Special/.357 Magnum lever rifle and also a Ruger GP100 Pistol.

Also own a .41 magnum revolver and have the Henry chambered in the same calibration. It just made sense to me ...handgun and rifle in the same calibration where possible.



While I am not keen on the 9mm csrtridge...it is difficult to get around the logistics that it is available all over the place...today.

I am looking in the future to one of these newer wheel guns in .357 Magnum/.38 Special with another cylinder to change out for 9mm. No rush...I just like the idea of ammunition flexability.



Hey...Olde Geezer...about your Rossi in .22 Magnum...??? I have one in .22 LR and mine will slam fire..hold the trigger down and just keep pumping. Does the Rifle do that in .22 Magnum calibration??

I do not have much use for that in actuality...versus carefully aimed fire...as TexDanm appropriately stated.

But it is an interesting feature.


I also own an olde Ithaca model 37 police shotgun..in 2 and 3/4 chambering and it too will slam fire...but I do not recommend it as in such an attempt it is difficult to control and she kicks like a mule on both ends. with that hard buttstock.
Reckon I need to get off my donkey and get a buttstock pad for mine. She is a punisher.


Earlier this evening I saw an U Tube explanation of the new Rock Island Armory .....pump shotgun modeled on the Ithaca Model 37....in like manner to the olde Model 37...it feeds and ejects from the bottom and thus it would be liked by both left and right handed shooters. Smart move to me....common sense.
However... I do not think todays ATF cares for the slam fire feature found in years past on the olde Ithaca Model 37s.


Watcherchris
Not an Ishmaelite.

 

More people should look into commercial fishing and survival fishing. I'm biased. Where I live, there's bunches of mountain streams. One can make a small dam in a creek -- say only 3 ft / 1 meter high. Tap this still water with a PVC pipe to gather a fraction of this water and run it down to where you've dug a pond (size of your choosing). Stock the pond with the fish you wish to grow. The Forestry Service could be of help to you. When a kid working for the F.Service, we build these little dams in mountain creeks so that trout could spawn. These streams would then be stocked w/trout. We were trying to restore the natural order. Beaver dams help the environment in many ways, but the beaver population got destroyed back-when.

A man/wife team we knew had a good sized pond and MANY fish. They'd feed the fish cheap dog food. Throw a fist-full of dog food in their pond and the water would churn with a fish feeding-frenzy. Kind'a scary, was like Parana eating a dog.

Went fishing many a time with my maternal Pap. Never got into it, myself. He hunted and fished for FOOD and food alone. He, nor anybody else up in the hollers, hunted/fished for sport. Food. He was raised in conditions far below what people call "poverty" today. You grew your own crops and you shot or fished your own meat. People could feed chickens. Hawgs you turned out to feed on the forest mast, then you'd go hunt them down.

"Hey...Olde Geezer...about your Rossi in .22 Magnum...??? I have one in .22 LR and mine will slam fire..hold the trigger down and just keep pumping. Does the Rifle do that in .22 Magnum calibration??"

Yes. Pump that rifle with your finger on the trigger and it keep on truckin'. Pumping the rifle like that gives one next to ZERO accuracy. Big ammo-waster, doing that.

Got a Henry lever in .22 mag also. Got a single action revolver in .22 mag.. Gotta a bolt rifle in .22 mag. This caliber is useful in hill-country/mountain country. Long range varmint-shooting? Precious little of that here. Some cow pastures are multiple acre. Only the valleys have big pastures ... but even then, the pastures roll up'n'down'n'up'n'down... Ain't no flatland anywhere's around here. Flatland = strange-looking to us.

Come SHTF, a lotta folk around here will be taking deer with their archery tackle. There's LOTS of archery hunting around here. Outdoors shops are stacked with such equipment and have ranges to sight your gear. They even stock scoped crossbows. The handicapped are legally allowed to hunt with crossbows. Of course a lot of poaching goes on with crossbows. Compound crossbow power, plus razor broad-heads, plus good sights or scope = Danger. Silent death ... except maybe for the screaming ... if you can scream. With a dropt lung and hosing arterial blood, kinda not the best conditions for screaming.
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Hey people, it's time to buy rifle ammunition.

Prices have fallen a bit. Some rifle ammo is still available. Short supply? Yes, this is true due to the Left's desire for Western nations to go to war to cover-up their massive incompetencies. Brain-dead biden's controllers occupying the White House need to start a war, thus ammo shortages. Yet, wherever you can, whenever you can, find a deal on ammunition for your rifles and buy it!!!

Do your rifles have effective sights or scopes? If not, buy such, equip your rifle with the best sights or scope, sight it in, buy more and more ammo, find the cartridges that are most accurate in your rifle, buy more of that ammo, and practice practice practice practice.

Time is running out! If you can't see the hell-days ahead, then please, acquaint yourself with the history of your species!

Get ready! Store food. Store water-purification equipment. Buy the best ammo for your rifles and shotguns. You are on a rapid flowing river and a waterfall looms before you. You have little time left to seek safety.

If not for yourself, then prepare to protect your family from the deeply dark days ahead. The Jewish families who escaped Germany in the 1930s are still around. Those who stayed but armed themselves died with dignity. I'm not Jewish, but there is definitely a place in my heart for the Hebrews who killed NAZI goons. Damn ALL bullies eternally. May they never see the Face of God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is time to act! Do it, or die.

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In some parts around here, include dynamite fishing.

 

Henry "Homesteader" (wrong name choice!)

Henry Firearms now has a 9mm semi-auto rifle out. Instead of being an "ugly gun" this puppy has a walnut stock and forend. It can be adapted to use several different types of handgun magazines. It is a blowback action = it will get dirty and quickly so. This puppy reminds me of the Marlin Camp Carbine I had years/decades ago. After I worked on the Marlin rifle, it was a real performer -- but gee golly gosh did it EVER get filthy dirty and quickly so. The Marlin wasn't robust -- certainly of no military quality/hard-service weapon -- "fun gun" though. Hopefully the Henry "Homesteader" will be hardier.

These 9mm carbines can be real ammo-eaters. They are just too fun to shoot. I've got ammo from all around the planet -- ammo that needed to be shot-up or risk case splitting issues (maybe?; never saw it). Now that bulk 9mm is coming back, one might wish a handy rifle / carbine. The Henry Homesteader I find ugly. AND, it is expensive -- >$900.

Home defense? Ok, so yes, maybe. Only certain ammo offerings give the 9mm extra velocity in longer barrels (I've posted this info in other threads). That the Henry Homesteader is offered with several adapters to allow it to use the mag.s of other manufacturers is a positive aspect. Everyone will be expecting Henry to, in future, offer other handgun caliber selections. Who doesn't want a handgun / rifle combo using the same cartridge?! If it works, it works. Truck guns, you never know for what they will be needed; put-down injured animals, make potential robbers think twice, scatter hyper-aggressive rioters (think Reginald Denny), ... .



https://www.henryusa.com/rifles/homesteader-9mm/

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog...ry-usas-new-semiauto-9mm-carbine-homesteader/

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/shot-show-the-henry-homesteader-9mm-semi-automatic-carbine/

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...d-steel-9mm-carbine-henry-homesteader.914943/

 

Continued from above

Henry "Homesteader" ... and its malfunctions ...



The following fellow also once had a Marlin Camp Carbine:



"Not a tactical carbine"

 

i never liked the 9mm cartridge...

However.......

It is difficult to argue or debate the simple fact that logistically speaking...9mm is today to be found everywhere..


As a result...I am thinking about a revolver...a wheel gun ...which has two cylinders...one for .38 Special/.357 magnum calibers...and another cylinder for 9mm which headspaces on the rim of the cartridge and also uses moon type clips to hold the cartridges in place.

Not a priority but something I am considering...as I am aware that 9mm is today to be found everywhere...across this nation....as well as relatively easy to reload.

My preference is a barrel length of 4 to 6 inches. I just like wheel guns. It is the olde school in me.


My non Ishmaelite .02,
Watcherchris

 

I like the 38special/357mag combo a lot and have both handguns and a lever action rifle in that caliber. It is a great round for reloading. I have a Lyman turret press that will spit out a finished round in about 20 to 30 seconds. I can move it along faster than that but that is how mistakes are made. Reloading cuts the ammo cost by a bunch. I could cut it more if I cast my own bullets.

The same press will spit out 223/5.56 rounds about the same. For bigger rifle rounds I have a bigger single stage press. Another reason that I like the revolvers and their rounds is that you don't have to hunt your cases that are scattered all over the place like you do an automatic. I also reload 9mm but I lose a half dozen cases every time that I go out and shoot them.

I have three presses but I also have Lee Loaders in my same calibers. I also have a Lyman hand press that is also very portable. That gives me portable reloading for a survival situation where I couldn't stay home. Honestly now that I am 70 that isn't going to happen.

 

Agree with all of Texdanm's points in his post above....well said....well said..

Watcherchris
Not and Ishmaelite.

 

I personally think that reloading is a skill that is important to a survival situation. You can wet you toes int it fairly cheaply as I did with a Lee Loader. That is an almost pocket sized reloader that eliminates the big heavy press and the delicate scales. You drive your case into and out of the sizing die with a mallet.

I have a nice fairly heavy double sided mallet that is brass on one side and plastic on the other that works very well. Instead of scales your powder is measured with a sized scoop Using different powders allows you to load different sized bullets and slightly different powers. I can load a 50 round box of 357 in a little less than 3/4 of an hour if I have everything on hand.

I buy cast bullets and small pistol primers 500 at a time and powder by the pound. Unique gives you the most bag for your buck and I also like Hercules 2400 a lot too for 38 and 357 mag. In fifty years and tens of thousands of rounds I've only had one problem and that wasn't a disaster. There are a few powders out there that a too light load is more explosive than an over load!!! I threw that powder out!!! It pushed the case back hard against the face and extruded the primer back around the firing pin. I couldn't get the cylinder to swing out until I got home and applied a little mallet to it. The gun showed no damage and still shoots nice tight groups.

I had always been so careful not to over load a case or double load it. After that I looked in every case before loading the bullet and if any were fuller or LESS full I poured them out and redid the powder load.

 

It may not be logical, but, in my head, I lump the 9mm in with the .22 LR. Again, NOT logical. Especially the 9mm FMJ. I think of the .22 LR as something above a pellet rifle -- the 9mm above the .22 LR / .22 mag. I've sent heaven only knows how many hundreds of thousands of rounds down range in .22 and .177 pellets down range. I've plinked with 9mm untold number of days. I've accessed 9mm from around the entire planet, to include Indonesia -- great accuracy that. All military surplus / "get rid of it" ammo, I've blasted-away at the range. Sgt-Major's body may be dead, but his soul stands just behind my right shoulder.

As to my preferences: The .357 is a dynamite lever-action rifle round. It is a real cartridge. Hey guys, our ancestors got-by / put food on the table with rifles possessing this amount of energy. Witness the end of the 1800s.

When people put-down the old 30-30, it tells me a lot about the idiots who say that crap. It's the man behind the rifle, not the cartridge. Women also, da## it!!! In Southern Appalachia, the women are more of a real man than city male sissies. Where I'm from, the women are to be respected for REAL reasons.

The .30 cal. center-fire rifles -- bolt-actions included -- have their place, duh (!). Long range hunting requires flat-shooting cartridges -- we all know that. Long ago, these matters were worked-out. Beyond 150 yards/meters, we all go to flat-shooting bolt-actions with scopes. Logic is logic.

That which gets the job done, gets the job done. "Waste not, want not." Long ago, the technology, the cartridges/rifles existed. Today's scopes are great. Our grandfathers were wise. The tools are there. It is upon the individual to be disciplined and wise. Our wise ancestors witness us. Do your work.

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Good info. Your choices are well thought-out.

What is to follow are my own personal biases. These are based on my experiences. My biases, as most folk here know, are based on my being from forested mountain area lands. Family history has biased me towards handguns being "make-do" / Oh Shi##! robberies that happened to family members. In my world, as far as 4-legged critters go, the ranges are short. My world is NOT prairie regions. I've lived in prairie regions, but wasn't raised there. I value Heartlanders from prairie regions -- God's Blessings be upon you folk who were raised there. Your agricultural skills are a blessing to this nation. Many profoundly valuable/brave soldiers have come from the prairie states / "breadbasket states".

My inputs:

I'd move the .22 mag. to the short-range varmint category. It's too much for small game.

To the medium to large game category, I'd add the 30-06, .308, and .270. REALLY large game is a whole other topic. BIG and dangerous critters are their own category. Preppers from Canada and the Western provinces of Canada can best speak to this category. Monster critters and BIG critters require heavier bullets to drive deep through massive shoulders (god-awful muscle and bone) on into the "boiler works", i.e. heart & lungs. Brown bears and polar bears will kill you. BIG game will fill your freezers even after you have shared meat with locals, friends, and kin. Lots of meat = lots of suppers. Think HUGE chest freezers. Dropping big antlered thingies keeps families fed through long hard winters = human life-savors, growth for growing children. Me, I'm old / don't need much (beans and rice, just a tad of pork fat-back); but children need meat to make red blood cells and for their being able to grow up strong and healthy.

To the "home defense" category, I'd add pump-action shotguns ... to include the 20 ga loaded with buckshot (#3 buck and #2 buck in the 3" shells). The 12 ga loadings offer the highest selections of ammunition. Also, the .38 special can be effective with the correct ammo; example, .38 full wadcutters, especially those from Buffalo Bore Ammo (best for snub-nosed revolvers, i.e. circa-two-inch barrels). As to home defense rifles, short carbines are very useful; but watch out for over-penetration -- even carbines firing handgun rounds.

I am profoundly biased when it comes to accurate fire. Know your target! Identify friend or foe!!! If you do not have a shot, don't fire! Where will your rounds go if you miss?!!!!!!!! NEVER dump a magazine hoping that this behavior will buy you anything. Never "spray and pray"!

Using a firearm in self-defense / home defense is an unimaginably HUGE responsibility. We are talking the REAL world, not some dumb-sh## movie or TV show, for heaven's sake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
======================

 

10 mm....Wow!!! I don't even know ......is that ammo sold in boxes of 50 rounds or 20/25 rounds....

Once you go so big in handgun calibers...the ammo gets not only expensive but the count per box is less as well.

I've never handled a 10MM but it looks like a .40 cal on steroids.

Ammo for my .41 Mag is also expensive....hence as Texdanm aptly states....I reload. Have put back plenty of starline brass and also bullets. for the .41 Mag....in pistol as well as lever rifle....again as Texdanm aptly states.....pistol/rifle combination...

What was it that olde fellow used to say....."How Sweet it is!!!!



It would be the same had I a 10 mm handgun....I would reload..


My non Ishmaelite .02,
Watcherchris

 

Oh...speaking of shotguns......

I've only handled 2 and 3/4 for my shotguns......and I notice on some programs that there are out some kind of shotgun shells shorter than 2 and 3/4 length.

I've not tried any of those and I only have pump 12 gauges...

What I am curious about is ....what the function is of these newer short type shells...shorter than 2 and 3/4 inch length.??

What purpose do they serve:??

Watcherchris
Not an Ishmaelite.

 

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Friend and I were trying-out his new pump 12 ga. We fired some 3" mag buckshot loads. The shotgun was light in weight, so the recoil was choice. I have "meaty" / thick shoulders (wide shoulders, so have to buy size Large shirts; large also accommodates my thick neck; my dad's chest was a barrel, he was downright powerful, not me; and, I don't have meat-hook hands like Dad's either; I'm average in height; starting to get a bit of a gut due to aging / slow metabolism, but at that time, I was far more lean). My friend went 150 lb or less and hadn't the shoulders; he was only 5'7"-ish in height, also; small guy. So, I found the recoil heavy, but manageable. My smaller friend got sledgehammered, was only able to fire just a few 3" mag shotshells. They make 3 1/2" 12 ga magnum buckshot loads and we may have actually have been firing them -- he'd bought the largest/wickedest of loads he could find -- again, he got hurt, not just some bruises. Twelve gauge 3 inch magnums are for goose and duck at distance. The three-inchers-plus buckshot loads must be for some heavier sized deer than we have around here; same for bear, our black bears are generally not huge. Maybe they are for grizzly or brown bears, monster bears?! Me, I'm NEVER going to use buckshot as defense against bear, no no no. Big bears require big heavy slugs to change their attitude.

The little sawed-off 12 ga shells, I've only seen. Maybe they are for recoil-sensitive people?? Too, sometimes you simply don't need 12 ga loads. I mean, you can turn quail into only feathers and blood ... all the edible meat blown away.

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Thanks TNT Tactical...I did not know any of that ....particularly about the adapter.......but the recoil part makes sense.

My 12 gauge pump guns are a Ithaca Model 37 and a Maverick 88 and I like them fine.

Also have a .22 LR over the top of a 20 gauge and also a .357 Mag over the top of a 20 gauge...and like those fine as well. Combination guns.

Thanks for that update..

Watcherchris
Not an Ishmaelite.

 

I guess that I am pretty much old school in my weapon choices. In a post apocalyptic world where ammo and components for reloading will be nonexistent other than what you HAVE the day the curtain comes down What you have on hand is critical. I like the 38special/357 mag combo a lot. Where I live people are about the biggest critter that will be much of a threat. The East Texas woods at bushy and tight an most things that I might need to shoot in the woods will be close. A lot of it is shotgun distances and not scoped rifle distances.

I have several lever action guns. I like them and for me they allow a fairly rapid rate of fire without encouraging me to just pray and spray. Aimed fire is what I depend on. It also is in part that we don't have any big critters here and in general are not shooting at things that you need a 3X9 scope to see clearly enough to make a shot. I had a rifle for a while that came with a Leopold 3x9 on it and I generally left it on 3.

A "survival" rifle is so very dependent on what sort of needs and issues you expect to face and your particular abilities and skill levels. I am not worried about critters so my survival weapons are more towards longer shots with rifles and a shotgun for anyone that gets close. I will admit though that a 10-22 with several 20 round mags plays a part in my survival plan and arsenal. If I could only have one gun that might be near if not on the top of that list.

I knew a guy that had an old bolt action rifle that was in questionable condition. He was a pretty questionable person himself. We were talking one night about survival issues if our society totally collapsed and we talked about what we needed if that happened. He sort of shocked me when he told me that all he needed was an accurate rifle and one bullet. Puzzled I asked him how that was all he needed. I knew that he was a Vietnam vet and was a good shot but I didn't know that he was a marine trained sniper.

He said simply that there would be hundreds of massively over armed GI JOE wannabes out there that would be shooting at anybody that moved and the first one that he ran into that crossed him would provide him with all the gear that he could ever want or need. !!!

 

You are right Lonewolf and it is probably even MORE true in the US. The woods are going to be just crammed full of idiots that think that all they have to do is walk in, shoot the first moving thing that they see and have a meal.

THEN you have the even more scary people that think that they can somehow hide out in the woods until things get better and they can return to their old life. That sort of thinking is going to lead to a dangerous insanity. You have to face the fact that things may never get better. If they do you are pleased and good and if they don't you are mentally prepared to deal with the reality of your situation.

PLAN ON IT, people are going to go insane in mass. Some will fix that for themselves and commit suicide but there are going to be a lot that will need "HELP" leaving it behind. Crazy is a LOT worse than just mean. A mean person will still have things in common with you like a desire of self preservation. They will avoid messing with people that might just kill them on sight. The crazy may have no sense of self preservation and no moral qualms about what they do.

To the best of my ability, for the first year or so I will try to avoid ALL contact with any people that I don't know REALLY well. I will put up signs telling people NOT to trespass onto my property and hang a bell if they want to talk to me. I will go to talk to them BUT there will be someone else looking at them through a scope and if they do anything hinkey or if I just drop to the ground they will be instantly very DEAD.

(Hinkey...My wife informed me that it isn't a real word and others might not know it...Someone or a situation that is hinkey just makes you feel a little on edge and nervous for no apparent reason. In my experience there IS a reason and you need to trust that feeling until proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is unfounded.)

In a post collapse world even a slight wound can kill you in the worst possible way as you rot from an infection. Antibiotics have a limited shelf life in a hot and then cold world. There are plants and things with some limited antibiotic affects but they are a far cry from modern medicines!!!

A lot of things that we don't worry about now will take on much more ominous problems for people. When my Dad was a kid pneumonia was a massive killer. It almost at times seemed to strike down the healthy and strong faster than the sickly. It killed his Dad. He had a slight cold and refereed a bi-district football game in the rain and died two weeks later from pneumonia.

After the fall you won't be able to run to Walgreens for medicine and forget prescription drugs. Any cut or scratch could get infected if you don't protect it and treat it as a possible serious thing. Any cold could become pneumonia and without drugs that at the LEAST can put you down for a couple of weeks if it gets worse.

 

Concerning the woods and other wilderness areas. OK, so nothing is public. Even in remote national forest areas, local hunters have staked-out their territories. During hunting season, you'd better ask around the local gun stores, outdoor shops, and country stores before traipsing out there into the wilderness. I know about Southern Appalachia. Even if people have no deed to the property, they and theirs call it their own. These people are often not nice about this. If you are local and they recognize you as being local, you'll be asked to leave. If you are some outsider, "too bad, so sad." You'll be possum food, your vehicle will get re-painted, your equipment will be distributed to their kith and kin.

Being an outsider during SHTF times will usually end up with you dead. Everybody here is armed. During SHTF days, people's sense of humor will vanish. Even armed gangs will get slaughtered where I'm from. Local motorcycle gangs will be OK and will contribute to society. I know. One of my childhood chums grew up to be a motorcycle gang leader in the mountain communities in Western North Carolina. Funny guy! That crew distributes toys to kids during Christmas season. All have felony records for violent crimes, OK yes, but they don't hurt innocents ... quite the opposite, they're basically good people. I know these kind of folk. My dad's friends were good guys.
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Quiet .22 lr ammunition

There are serious differences between subsonic, "quiet", and high-velocity .22 LR ammo types.

Some quite ammo types are only going 700-800 ft/sec. Great, they are VERY quiet; however, they rarely cycle semi-auto rifles. CCI is an American company sells a subsonic ammo that is designed to cycle semi-autos. Eley made in the UK makes this subsonic semi-auto ammo and Eley ammo is GREAT!

For very low velocity .22 lr ammo (not necessarily "short" case) one is better served by a lever, pump, or bolt action rifle. Try different sub-sonic ammo manufacturers to find the ammo that most accurately shoots with your rifle.

Eley Contact Semi-Auto Ammunition 22 Long Rifle Subsonic 42 Grain Lead Round Nose:

 

Wish I'd kept this shotgun

 

I can REALLY understand why you wish you still had that sweet looking little side by side. I like side by sides a lot. I had a little 20 gauge side by side with hammers that was sweet. I picked it up from a pawn shop and liked it a lot. I carried it to a gun show with no real intention of selling it but a guy fell in love with it and made me an offer that I couldn't refuse...like nearly three times the book value of it. I carried it just as an interesting gun to put on my table. As it turned out he may have known what he was doing. If I had it to do over again I wouldn't sell it or even taken it to the show.

 

If you hold the trigger down in the Rossi pump gallery rifle, it will fire as fast as you can pump. I do NOT know if their newest versions of this rifle will do this. My Rossi pumps will (.22 LR and .22 Mag).

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/TUSjkwGopdw

If you use 30gr bullets in the .22 mag, the bullet will simply explode and NOT penetrate -- what's left of the bullet may only go 6" into ballistic gel. If you want the .22 mag to expand AND penetrate, use the standard loading of hollow-point 40 gr bullets.

I don't see why anyone would use 30 gr bullets out of a .22 mag rifle at short range. Now at 100 yards with the concomitant drop in velocity, the 30 gr. bullet does NOT explode. It comes into its own. So for groundhogs at 100 yards, this 30 grain would be just the ticket! It doesn't penetrate like the 40 grain, but duh!, that's what anyone would expect.

You'll have to bear with the following shooter, his speech is slow and he rambles when speaking. He comes up with a decent test results if you can put up with him. It kills me to listen to him, however I get info from him. Don't think that all Southerners are like him ... though many are very slow talkers.

Comparing bullet performances at 100 yards, .22 mag. Three bullet weights 30, 40, and 50 grain. None of these hollow point bullets expanded; however, their wound channels are nasty through the gel. The wounds inflicted at 100 yards would be sufficient to kill varmints. Coyote, groundhogs, they'd be gonners. Many hunters have used the .22 mag for wild pigs. Caveat = if you are going for BIG pigs and killer boar hogs, then use something more powerful than the .22 magnum. Boar hogs will turn and attack you. It happens. Be prepared.



Here's a 40 gr. mag. hollow point hitting gel in slow motion:



Here's a Federal 50 gr .22 mag ammo test on gel. The 50 grain penetrates and in the following video, has a nasty wound channel.


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Was at the range this week with a grandson.

The used Nagant bolt carbine I just purchased exceeded all of my expectations. Before heading to the range, I polished the chamber, so at the range I had no problems extracting brass cases and soft steel cases alike. Old ammo did well also. I went through lots of ammo and only had to slap the bolt one time. With new Winchester 7.62 x 54R ammo, I shot a one inch group at 50 yards -- so 2" at 100 yards. Not bad at all for a $150 clunker rifle. Yep, 150. Saw it at one of my regular gun stores. Bore was usable and the price was where it aught to be (where things were 20+ years ago), so I slapped down the cash and took it home. Somebody had replaced the military sights with a modern front post. Forend furniture was gone also. I'd also done a detail strip of the bolt to get the decades worth of hellish gunk out'a there.

I got the barrel way too hot; couldn't touch it without risk of BBQ-ing my skin; however, the rifle kept on trucking. I'm delighted. Have surplus ammo to blast through it. Had no split cases.

My shoulder is sore. The little carbine kicks like a mule. Buttplate is steel = bruiser. Loud as light artillery. Muzzle blast sends out a shockwave. Grandson commented on getting hit with the shockwave; he was at the adjacent bench/firing position.
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A note to those of our visitors who currently do not own firearms, but are looking to do so:

I'm perpetually seeing all of these folk buying semi-automatic rifles of the AR-15 and AK-47 ilk. These should be your last choices. For urban warfare, they are effective. HOWEVER, when SHTF events start happening, hey everybody, the cities are totally doomed. Even if you initially survive, inevitably you will not.

If you are ex-military or law-enforcement affiliated, then an AR-15 platform may be for you. You were trained with this weapon.

For survival purposes, hunting shotguns and rifles are superior. For self-defense -- your home or property is attacked -- a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with buckshot is your first-grab weapon. If the enemies of you and yours are at distance, a scoped deer rifle and numerous boxes of cartridges will allow you to reach out there and neutralize that threat. Only aimed fire is effective fire. Shotgun fire must be aimed fire. Nothing in the movies and TV is accurate -- there's a total disconnect between the movies and reality.

Sight-in your scoped rifle for approx 200 yards. A .308 caliber hunting rifle will accept surplus military 7.62 x 51mm NATO ammunition. Buy surplus ammunition (FMJ, full metal jacket) for target practice. This ammo will also allow you to shoot through vehicles and building walls if your enemies are attempting to use these for cover.

One can buy a budget pump shotgun (ex. Mossberg) AND a budget bolt-action rifle (ex. Savage) for the price of one "assault rifle".

In an emergency situation wherein you find yourself away from a shotgun or high-powered rifle, a handgun might be able to give you the survival seconds to get to a more powerful/effective weapon.

For survival reasons, hunting rifles and shotguns are good for hunting. .... I hope I didn't have to say that. Shotgun birdshot for small game. A small bore rifle such as a .22 LR rimfire is a splendid survival firearm, but can't be counted on for self-defense.

Don't think about using "warning shots". They just let the enemy know where you are and that you are armed. They can now seek cover or worse, notify their comrades. Post SHTF, many previously decent people are going to go crazy and/or mean ... very mean.
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