Survivalists Who Are True Masters, Bordering On Catastrophic Failure.

There are some Survivalists who are "True Masters" bordering on eminent catastrophic failure.

Then there are pretenders.

Any "A-hole" can buy several thousands dollars of high quality camping gear, and move to a wooded area, and survive for days or weeks. Frankly that does not impress me.

 

True.......But this is damn close to "Survival".

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/anc...ss-shelters-as-city-prepares-to-remove-camps/

 

Yes........many homeless are drug addicts, alcoholics, social lowlifes, repulsive, disgusting, etc. etc. etc..

And......I also find that disgusting.

(Which is interesting, given that my lifestyle is just barely a small step higher, living in a small shack, with no water, plumbing, kitchen, bathroom, one light bulb, etc.)

However; when people on Prepping and Survival forums, are proud of their (minimal) "Skills" and (substantial) Survival "Stuff"........I find these current "homeless" people at the very least disserve my respect, awe, empathy for surviving in conditions, which I expect millions might soon find themselves subjected too. And likely failing.

 

I request you elaborate on your personal distinction between....."Surviving" and "Existing". The degree to which they are separate.......and what exactly fills the space between the two.

 

A contrast between homeless and survivalist . Homeless are eating other peoples scraps and depending on other peoples sympathy to give them something for survival , such as food . --- A survivalist is independent and does not need and probably doesn't want a hand out . --- A prepper is someone that prepares for a disaster , be it for one week or a couple of months . --- A prepper / survivalist is prepared to survive indefinitely . " poltiregist's definition "

 

Good morning Sourdough,

That Alaska newspaper is great. This is the second time I read it - presuming the paper you placed the Alaska Logo with "Social Distancing - Since 1959" was same newspaper.

Anchorage Mayor Berkerowitz is in the midst of what's going on all over the nation. Article has a quote "Others have been barred from the mass shelter for violating policies".

Down here, at emergency shelters, those registered as sex offenders usually cannot stay in an emergency shelter (some exceptions due to state politics).

If, for any reason, someone is prohibited from staying at a shelter, they just return to "the streets" and the same problems are present with the additional costs: the shelter and the policing of those living on the streets.

The overall matter is that the US governmental model can no longer work. With infectious diseases, confinement facilities are out. Downtown makeshift housing is similar: disease, garbage piled up like 5 star restaurants in NYC, any crime detected ?

 

That is Anchorage, Alaska and many of the Anchorage, Alaska homeless have been living like that for several years, in what some people would consider challenging weather conditions.
No........to the best of my knowledge they are not migrants. At least not in my understanding of "Migrants". A large portion of Anchorage, AK homeless, are "First Nation" from the remote villages, and yes......most are alcoholics, and in very poor health.

I still........stand by my assertion, that dispite their existence being pathetic, they know a lot more about true survival (a the lowest level, in America) then 99.7% of forum members on most prepping/survival forums.

It is one thing to live it day after day.......year after year verses jabbering about it on a "Internet Forum" based largely, if not wholly on book learning, TV learning, You-Tube learning, taking notes from social network forums.

 

My goal, and my point with this thread is quite simple. It is one thing to live it with what I call, "Boots in the Field" it another thing for those who think they can live it, with zero experience.

These forums (not just this forum, but most if not all internet forums) are composed of arrogant mouthy people who jabber about their ability to survival SHTF. And "I" say most could not last six months immersed in this homeless lifestyle.

Most participants on most of these forums will judge and act superior to these homeless, but if I had to bet my "Homestead" on who will still be surviving a catastrophic world economic depression, or massive EMP or CME........I would choose these people, be they crude and disgusting as my teammates over the jabber-mouths who's concept of hardship, is loss of employment, having car repossessed, home foreclosed on, and moving to live with family or friends.

 

Good morning Sourdough,

In principle, I agree.

One major aspect of this and other sites/meetings is the use of different definitions for the same word / term.

"Homeless" and "living on the street" are umbrella terms. The homeless ranges from the mentally ill to the recently discharged commando who drinks too much to function.

 

Well said

 

My husband used to have a saying which I can't recall at this point, in which he basically said that the people who don't make a song and a dance about their abilities, are the very people who have abilities, true leaders who sit quietly on the sidelines and don't need to convince others of their worth. As I type this, my husband's father's clock has started ticking. Considering it hasn't worked since being shipped from the UK some years ago, makes me wonder if he's giving his approval for this paragraph.

Regarding the article in the Alaskan newspaper - it is tragic that there are so many people around the world who are for one reason or another homeless. The fact that there are so many people in such a predicament shows the extent that people will and do go to in order to survive. Not everyone is going to curl up into a ball and die, although there will always be a percentage who simply can't cope. I am quite sure homeless people around the world didn't prepare on how to be survivalists, yet there they are. One only has to look back on history at all the survivors during and after major wars to understand that survivalism isn't simply something learned and prepared for. Millions of people became survivalists by the circumstances they had thrust upon them through the ravages of war.

It should also be remembered that loss of employment, having cars repossessed, homes foreclosed on, etc, are some of the very reasons that people become homeless in the first place, usually after succumbing to depression leading to a cycle of drugs and alcohol that then finds them on the streets.

 

In a sense, a large part of the Anchorage homeless can be considered migrants. As you point out, most are cast offs from tribal communities throughout remote Alaska. If an individual is causing problems, the tribal elders will expel the individual from the tribe. They then charter a plane to come in and fly the person to Anchorage on a one way ticket and drop them off on the streets. Like a migrant, Anchorage would be like a foreign country where they would have little or no established social networks, except for joining with other tribal cast offs.

Back to the thread, for me existing and surviving are the same thing. When SHTF, the level of suck that most will experience will cause most to fail. These homeless folks continue to exist through a high level of suck. We are a society where people make a big deal about meaningful relationships, self actualization, and all that other psychobabble. Most of these individuals will likely not have the toughness or conditioning to survive the suck. These homeless might one day be the last ones standing as they know what existing entails.

 

Sourdough, how would you consider a "modern" prepper a successful survivalist? Currently I'm not having to use any of my preps and live in a nice home. I do know what it is to survive and have real world experience at it. Did 62 days alone in an Asian jungle once with nothing but my survival tin and an airforce survival knife while being hunted. It felt like surviving. Completed 6 other military SERE courses. Actually gained a little weight on one of them (Love the Rocky Mountains).

How do you judge who is a pretender? Especially on the internet?

Dale

 

Hmmm. Good points lonewolf. Hadn't thought of that aspect.

 

They don't give you any table salt?

 

I don't need to judge who is which. What matters is "they" know if they are pretenders.

My goal is to motivate them to move from "pretender kidding themselves", to an ever increasing level of competence.

Those who are kidding themselves (pretenders) are a danger to themselves and to everyone else.

You and I have both spent a substantial part of our life perfecting wilderness skills for survival. We "KNOW" things that others don't even know that they don't know.

I recently pointed out to someone that through decades of immersion in a given wilderness environment, you "Know" things that you are not aware that you know.

Looking across a valley we can observe the way the grass is moving in the breeze, combined with the color of the grass, and its flexibility what the probability is of that valley allowing for safe crossing by a human. Further by observing what birds are on the valley floor and more importantly what birds are "Not" on the valley floor, we know without even knowing that we know additional information as to whether that ground can be cross by a human.

We know this from decades of immersion. You simply can't learn this type of critical survival skill from a book. And yet, we know by simply looking for two seconds, if we must choose a different course. But we are not aware what complex data we just processed.

It is exactly the same with crossing a swift moving creek or river. With experience you see two hundred ever so slight nuances that you don't learn from a book. You even look at the sky in making the finale decision. In Alaska if it looks like it will be fairly good weather, you know that the creek or river will be much higher on your return crossing, because of snow melt.

Bush pilots in Alaska know thousands of things from Alaska piloting immersion, that you learn from no other method. That is why we say, There are OLD pilots, and there are also BOLD pilots........But there are NO bold'old pilots.

I once had a ugly fight with a hunter I was guiding on this exact thing, he was furious that I would not allow him to go there. He looked and viewed an easy safe crossing, I looked and viewed extreme danger, based on decades of immersion. Late that night when he finally calmed down he said, "Guess that is why I am paying two thousand dollars a day for a professional guide". The next day he harvested the animal that was across that valley, but we took a different route.

This is the distinction between pretending that one knows, and knowing that one knows, even if they are totally unaware that they knew what they knew. It is called, "Boots in the Field" experience. And you don't get that from a book, the internet, or you tube.

This is why when I go to that massive forum "Survival Boards" I can tell who is pretending and who has "Field Experience". I can go to a thread there on Caching supplies, and with zero effort till who has never cached anything (even if they are jabbering about it like they are an expert), who has very light experience, and who has a depth of experience.

NOTE: All of the above explains why I always loose money playing poker. I think I have my head out of my ass, but I was kidding myself.

 

Sourdough, Yes, I know who your talking about. It's a lot harder on the internet to tell the posers from the skilled. There are so many that can write a great tale but in real life, they can't start a fire with matches. LOL! I met a guy last summer at the gun range who was wearing all the tacticool gear (even had on a ballistic vest and all the pouches) and telling everyone how skilled he was at SERE. I played dumb and asked if he could show me how to start a fire. I was wearing blue jeans and a t-shirt and my operators cap with my military division patch on it. He didn't know it. It took him 45 minutes to start a fire with a ferro rod and magnesium powder. I think my wife was giving it away though. She was sitting in the truck laughing. After he got his started he said I should try to start one. I collected my tinder, twigs and sticks and took 2 minutes to start one. I said beginners luck and left him there. The wife was rolling, laughing when I got in the truck.

For me, the world has gotten strange. So, I get my laughs where I can.

Dale

 

My son in law was a navy survival instructor based in Maine. Talk about a dream job. Anyhoo he tells me about students that have never started a fire, cooked on a fire, killed anything. I suppose they are total city kids, no disrespect intended or implied.