The Ar-15/ M-16 The Good The Bad And The Ugly...in My Humble Openion.

Discussion in 'Guns, Knives, Tools, Etc.' started by TexDanm, Aug 15, 2018.

0/5, 0 votes

  1. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
      510/575

    Blog Posts:
    0
    I don't think this is correct again. And again the opposite.

    What I know about loading for a heavy barreled rifle...for accuracy ...is a precision weighed/designed bullet...in a precision case and certain type primer....with a bullet seated to where it just enters the rifling. Or if you prefer..seated long in the case.

    Mind you now...this also is contingent of your magazine well...even in a bolt action.

    One could even say ..this would be a custom loading for that particular rifle as chamber dimensions vary.


    A rifle with a high cyclic rate ...you would not want this because excessive heat would altar this chamber dimension...and thus the bullet seating....possibly even not to be able to fully chamber a round if seated out lengthy in the case.


    I've loaded the .308 caliber 168 and 190 grain Sierra boat tail match bullets. I've weighed them and they are kept in close weight tolerance bullet to bullet...verses a stock box of .35 Remingtons in which you find more variation in the weights of the individual bullets.
    This is reflected in the price of the Sierra boat tailed match bullets.

    I made these rounds up seated a bit longer out to better match the chamber dimensions of a heavy barreled 1903 Springfield...a bolt action.

    I would not try this with my M1 Garand which shoots the same calibration.

    I have done the same with my bolt action Savage in .223 calibration using bullets .55 grains and lighter...as this is a slow twist in the rifling.


    Thanks,
    Watcherhris

    Not an Ishmaelite
     
  2. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
      510/575

    Blog Posts:
    0
    by TexDanm on page 1 of this thread.....


    Your bringing back long ago memories here TexDanm.

    Long ago when first I started work in this shipyard....I ran across a pipefitter.....ex Army ....Vietnam Vet ....River patrol boats.

    He told me that when going up these small rivers...on patrol wherein often the grass grew tall right up to the river banks and the rivers narrowed....close to where cruised the boat.....

    He chose to give up his M16 and traded it in for a Remington 870. He told me he never regretted the trade.

    The only other thing which did as good or better along the sides of those rivers was the M2 Browning.

    But close up and personal....the Remington 870 was king as far as he was concerned.


    For some reason that stayed in the back of my mind all these years.

    As I also understand it...in Iraq..house to house....again the M16 and even the M4 took a back seat to the 12 gauge...and it cleaned up on the AK 47.

    Even the WW2 vets, to whom I've spoken, who went into France...village to village cleaning them out...many turned in their M1 Garands and drew 12 gauge shotguns when they could find them. Those who could not often drew Thompsons in .45ACP or the Grease gun in .45 ACP. But most of them preferred to have a 12 gauge as they knew intimately how get the best out of them...having been raised and weaned, so to speak... on the shotgun.

    Ironic to me that in todays era of wiz bang whamadine...technology ..the shotgun still stands...strong.

    Smooth bore...musket....buck and ball..still a type of shotgun....

    And Buck and Ball are still here today standing watch...with the best of them.


    Thanks,
    Watcherchris

    Not an Ishmaelite
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  3. Turbodc2

    Turbodc2 Expert Member
      173/230

    Blog Posts:
    0
    All I know is if I'm going to be shot @ 50 yards or more, I'd much prefer being shot at with #4 buck than 5.56.
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  4. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
      525/575

    Blog Posts:
    2
    The thing about shooting a 12 gauge #4 buck round at 50 yards or less is that there are 30 .223 caliber pellets in EACH round. With the 5.56 you got only one bullet into the target per hit. Also with the shotgun pellets you usually deliver the entire energy load because they seldom over penetrate where a FMJ round tends to go through unless it hits a major bone. That is why shotguns have such a massive stopping power up close. It is like having someone dump the ENTIRE 30 round magazine into the body all at once. As far as stopping power it is sort of like the difference between being stabbed with an ice pick versus getting hit in the chest with an ax. Both will kill you but the ax will STOP you. If someone is trying to harm me I want that to STOP. I'm just that way...
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  5. Turbodc2

    Turbodc2 Expert Member
      173/230

    Blog Posts:
    0
    I see what your saying, and maybe out to 20 yards I'd agree, however @50 yards I disagree. It's only a 20 grain pellet that's roughly the size of a 22 going about 1k fps. That's not much, especially considering there's a good chance that a fair amount of pellets may not hit. When I shoot a target, I want to put them down now, not piss them off. That's why I would use a 5.56. # 00 buckshot would definitely be better in that roll in my opinion. Less pellets, but even if only 3 or 4 hit, it's a bigger heavier pellet. In my opinion #4 is good at very close range, and where over penetration may be a concern.
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  6. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
      510/575

    Blog Posts:
    0

    This depends on the ability of the choke in a given shotgun. I was shocked many years ago to find out how tightly one of those adjustable chokes can keep a pattern out to some 50 yards...

    This choke worked sort of like a bronze garden nozzle..you rotate it to tighten or loosen the pattern.

    However ...most house shotguns...short barrels are cylinder bore...straight out barrels...no choke. They are made for close in work. They would not hold a tight pattern at 50 yards...better off with slugs or heavy buckshot ..00 or 000 ...if you can hit at that range.

    Thanks,
    Watcherchris

    Not an Ishmaelite
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  7. Turbodc2

    Turbodc2 Expert Member
      173/230

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Yes, with a tighter choke, that may be possible. However I believe "TexDanm" said he has a mossberg 590, and as far as I know, they use only cylinder bores. Maybe there's some out there that can accept chokes, and I suppose there may be barrels for it that accept them, however the broad majority of 590s that you see will be cylinder bore.

    The choke that you are talking about is called a polychoke. You don't see them these days. They were before my time, and I don't have any experience with them, however the old times I talked to don't seem to like them. Not sure why since it seems like a good idea to me, my guess is they didn't work very well, but like I said, I don't know.

    I almost went to the range today and tested some number 4 buck. I wanted to see if the shot would A) pass through an empty milk jug at 50 yards, and B) how much shot would hit it at that distance out my Remington 870 police magnum. I decided that I was already bringing more guns that I wanted, and I didn't really have time to test. Maybe next week if I go.
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  8. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
      525/575

    Blog Posts:
    2
    My Mossberg 500 will put 30 holes in a human silhouette at 40 yards. That is one reason that I use an old school choke system. A Poly choke can be screwed down to extra full choke. That is 600 grains hitting all at once and is devastating to a body. You evidently don't do much pass shooting for geese. I can drop a goose out of the sky at over 50 yards with no problem. At 20 yards I might just about make a hit throwing the shell at them. Buck shot at 20 yards makes a single hole about 4" in diameter. Any closer and you don't even need buckshot. The big thing where a shotgun shines is when your targets won't sit still. At 40 yards I probably won't have my choke squeezed down tight. I stand a better chance of hitting a running target with that scatter gun that I would with any rifle.

    If I hit you in the guts with even one of those little 22 pellets you will die a slow and miserable death. This isn't like a war where you will have a medic and evac to a hospital. ANY solid hit may be deadly. Even a flesh wound that dings a bone has a good chance of killing you. People used to die of shaving cuts pretty often.

    When I was young I had the unfortunate experience of seeing what a shotgun can do up close. It nearly blew the man in half. This was an across the room shooting. He got hit just above the belly button. It all but turned him inside out. I've shot and seen a lot of animals shot with a rifle and never seen anything even close to that. I've also seen several deer dropped by buckshot and they go down fast. 5 or 6 holes in the lungs makes short work on them. You also have more chance of a heart hit. I also am pretty fond of slugs. Talk about stopping power!! With open rifle sights on my barrel I can do groups at 100 yards that you can cover with the palm of your hand.

    All of this and I can also hunt coons, possums, bunnies, squirrels, ducks, geese, doves and quail too. A 12 ga shotgun with a spare barrel with rifle sights on it can do it all. I have three mossberg 500s with 5 barrels. In a bind I could get by though with a 20" barrel with the poly choke on it. No tools needed and no tubes to lose but it isn't pretty or sexy.

    I live in the woods. I have no need to fight at 300 yards. If I do though it will be with a scoped 30 caliber rifle. If I planned on running the roads and getting in a lot of fights I would probably need something different. I don't plan on assaulting anyone. I am defensively minded.

    I'm happy with what I have and you are happy with what you have. We no doubt have different skill sets and different plans. Let let this dead horse rest in peace. I'm done... I'll let you have the last word...
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  9. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
      525/575

    Blog Posts:
    2
    Danm that is weird. I posted while you did. I don't have a 590M i just think that they look interesting. I have mossbergs and actually have a poly choke. They really were a great device but after everyone had to have a vent rib they went out of style. I hate vent ribs. I was raised hunting in swamps ofen in the rain and cleaning a barrel with a vent rib is a pain in the butt. I have choke tubes in my double barrels but love the fact that a poly choke can be changed easily without tools in the field. By the way, my 177 pellet rifle will put a hole in a milk jug at 50 yards. Not both sides though. In my tube I usually load 2 #4. 2 00, and 2 slugs. My defender gets 2 #4, 4 00, and 2 slugs. I wear a pair of over the shoulder bandoliers and can stuff rounds in any time I'm not shooting without lowering my gun. I used to be able to stuff three rounds in in about 1.5 seconds when I was younger and doing three gun shooting. I had a friend that could do 4 but my hands weren't big enough for that.

    I used to love the stripper clips. You can stuff a 30 round mag in seconds with stripper clips and a spoon. In vietnam when the M16 first came out they had 20 round mags and the ammo came in a bandolier with boxes that held two 10 round stripper clips. The 30 round was nice but you had to open two boxes to reload.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  10. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
      510/575

    Blog Posts:
    0
    I have the Mavrick 88 which is a cheaper copy of a Mossberg. I learned after purchasing this 12 gauge shotgun that the Mossberg replacement barrels would fit this Maverick. I purchased the hunting barrel for it with the screw in chokes.
    And late ...just as you mentioned Texdanm....I learned how awkward and irritating it is to thoroughly clean a vent ribbed barrel.

    I like the screw in chokes however.

    Question......are poly chokes even made and or available today......and can they be put on other shotguns..do gunsmiths do this kind of work today???

    I suspect that the Extra full choke feature is one reason they are not well liked today. I don't believe they recommend shooting slugs out of todays poly choke tubes. And slugs have become more popular today.

    By the way ..I did not know that about the Extra full choke...thanks for filling me in on that detail.


    In addition to the Maverick 88...my other 12 gauge is an Ithaca Model 37 sold off by the local police departments when they transitioned to newer shotguns. This is a short barreled gun with ironically a full choke at the very end of it.

    What makes this shotgun so popular is that it both loads and ejects from the bottom. This is what immediately attracted me to it...when I saw it for sale.


    Thanks,

    Watcherchris
    Not an Ishmaelite
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  11. Turbodc2

    Turbodc2 Expert Member
      173/230

    Blog Posts:
    0
    No, I don't really hunt anything, coyotes sometimes, but that's about it, no geese. That said, geese arent people. I would say it takes considerably less to take out a goose than a person. There is a video on YouTube from active self protection where there is an active shooter who shoots this girl in the chest with birdshot and she walks it off, not sure what her overall injuries were, however I found that interesting. Obviously birdshot is a lot different than buckshot, but you get the idea. That said, I have a customer of mine who was shot in the leg with birdshot at almost point blank range and it almost killed him, but that was at a range of like 1 or 2 feet.

    Maybe you would have a better chance hitting a moving target with a shotgun @ 50 yards, however IF you miss, then follow up may be a lot slower, along with reloads if need be. On top of that, if he has a rifle, he may just decide to try and put a bit of distance between you guys to give himself a better advantage, and if he's using a rifle, he probably has enough in mags to keep you suppressed while he's moving into a better position. Obviously this is all hypothetical, but in my opinion, I think someone using a rifle, especially at distances around 50 yards has a pretty good advantage. In the home, around the home, a shotgun is devastating, with almost anything you put in it, but once those distances start opening up, in my opinion, the effectiveness of a pump shotgun starts going down hill. A mag fed semi auto shotgun is a different story, but even still, @ 50 yards it's about maxing out.

    Yes indeed, a gut shot can lead to death, eventually, but we were talking about trying to stop immediately. Luckily for me I'm good friends with a doctor who will be very useful in a catastrophic event. I also have good body armor to help keep me safe as well.

    For the record, I do think a shotgun, especially with multiple barrels is a very good tool, I just don't think it's the best defensive tool, even though it can do that roll if need be.

    You know your situation better than anyone, and you know what you need and what you like to use. You have your way, I have mine and obviously our plans and situations are very different. As I said before, the reason I commented in here in the first place was because I feel that the 5.56 and the ar-15 have a place in survival situations, depending on what the needs may be. On top of that, I just like the conversation. Lol.
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  12. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
      525/575

    Blog Posts:
    2
    I went through the AR 5.56 thing. I had almost 5000 rounds in stripper clips and 8 30 round magazines. I also went through several things that were a lot more...interesting than the ARs. I remember when Mac 10s and Uzies were big. Any hafe competent gunner could convert a mac 10 to full auto in about 10 minutes. That is why they eventually classified it as a class three firearm even in simi auto. The Tech was another fun gun to shoot.

    The M16 when it first came out had a 20 round mag. on full auto you went dry in 4 or 5 seconds so they upped it to a 30 round mag. To some extent I always sort of prefered the 20 round in an AR15. It balanced better for me and was easier for me to shoot from a prone position. In the semi auto format the 20 lasted long enough to do most of what I wanted and the mag changes were easy and fast if I needed more. Also the 20s seemed to be a little tougher and less likely to get damaged if you had to flop on one of them. The mag pouches for the 20s were smaller and didn't seem to bother me as much when I was on the move. In the end I often carried it with a 20 in it and 30 round mags in my pouches. The first 20 rounds will all to often determine the fire fight and I just felt like the AR with the 20 round in it swung and aimed more instinctively for me.

    Geese are a little easier to kill than a man but they move a lot faster. I usually didn't use as heavy off a shot as most people did. The feathers of a goose make pretty good body armor. On the longer shots I prefered more lead because I wanted them to drop out of the sky dead. If they were just ounded they might get lost and I hated the thought of a wounded animal suffering and dying and not being found. The smaller shot didn't do much to them in the body but ONE pellet hits them in the head and they are dead. The Gulf Coast of Texas is big for ducks and geese.

    Like you I have enjoyed our discussion. To some extent I have been debating with what I myself felt when I was younger and planned on a much more active roll in the event of TEOTWAWKI. There is a reason the military wants to get young men and leaves us old farts alone. When you get older the idea of traveling a long way to shoot at and be shot at by strangers that have never done anything to you just isn't as attractive. If you attack our home we will be lethal but the US hasn't fought a war against a real enemy that threatened us in a long long time now. I have been watching our young men go off and fight for people that won't fight for themselves for 65 years now. I've watched them come home in pieces or intact physically but they left a part of their soul in some worthless little country. If somebody wants to fight with me now they are going to have to come to me.

    Do you have a good helmet? Don't be like my geese and feel safe because your body is protected. A kevlar helmet should be good for shotgun pellets or even a 5.56 that isn't straight on. Even the old steel pots didn't do you a lot of good if you caught a 30 cal. Even if it didn't kill you it would turn your lights out just from the impact.
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  13. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
      525/575

    Blog Posts:
    1
    AR-15 platform for hog hunting and hog eradication









    Next video promotes other products such as boots, scope, rangefinder, ... -- gotta have the right equipment when outdoors. Never want your feet to rot. Human eyes need help -- we do not have the eyes God gave raptors. God gave us brains to build scopes and range-finders.
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  14. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
      525/575

    Blog Posts:
    2
    For those of you that don't know about it, a lot of the south is at WAR with a wild hog infestation. They breed and multiply like rats and are destructive as hell. We have hog hunts here and they often end up with piles like in that picture above. A herd of hogs can and will make a garden or occasionally a lawn look like a freshly plowed field. They can do this overnight.

    I personally have never had a problem with the hogs getting aggressive with me but I have known several people that have had problems. I got a call from a neighbor lady one time and she had hogs all over her porch and she needed them gone so she could get to her car and go to work. I went over and chased them off with a bull whip with no problem. A couple of weeks later her husband had a hog killing and found out why I used a bullwhip. It was summer and he suddenly had several big hogs lying dead in his yard that he had to dispose of. During the winter I might eat one but in the summer they are just not something that I will eat.

    Hogs are probably about the smartest animal that you will ever try to hunt. They know what a gun is and will vanish as soon as they see one. They are hard to kill but as my neighbor learned killing them in your yard creates a problem. A 22 in the lungs will kill them but they will go someplace else to die.

    I personally like pigs. They are nice and friendly animals if they are raised and messed with when they are little. A wild hog though is just a different matter. The boars are territorial as hell. The sows are protective of their piglets so in either case they can be threatening. Just in my experience, hogs will chase you if you run. If you stand your ground they tend to either back off or go around you. The issue comes when you move towards them in an aggressive manner. The lady next door wasn’t really in any danger. She had to stop putting her dog food on her front porch though. I’ve HEARD of people having problems with a hog attacking them but even though I live in a place with a LOT of hogs I have never KNOWN anyone that had that sort of problem.
     
    TMT Tactical and watcherchris like this.
  15. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
      525/575

    Blog Posts:
    1
    If dropping hogs and not eating them, I guess it would be good to have one of those little 4-wheeler all-terrain vehicles to drag-away the kills to some down-wind pit.

    Fat buzzards. Texas needs to feed the buzzards. I wouldn't want to be out in the heat trying to dress-out and scrape dead hogs -- that's for when the first frosts come in the fall of the year.

    upload_2021-7-3_22-49-25.png
     
    TMT Tactical and watcherchris like this.
  16. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
      510/575

    Blog Posts:
    0
    I own two AR rifle platforms. One in 223 Wylde and I use either 62 grain hollow points or soft points. The second AR is a 7.62 x 39 and it shoots 123 grain hollow points or soft point. Those are my short to medium range force multipliers. I use a 22 lr and a pellet rifle for my close in quite work. Home defense is a 9mm carbine, 124 grain hollow points, a 9mm pistol, again 124 grain hollow points and for the up close and real personal range, a 12 ga shotgun, semi-auto mag fed. The long range targets get to meet my 6.5 mm Creedmoor. While each weapon can be used in personal to close range, each has a most effective range, where they excel. Both of my two AR rifles have heavy barrels. The 223 Wylde barrel is 24 inches long. The 7.63 x 39 barrel is 20 inches long. I have seen enough of the AR platform pencil barrels heat up and start walking impacts all over the target. Open sights and scopes make both AR's accurate out to their respective distances. All my rifles have open sights and scopes mounted. I am a firm believer in Murphy's Law and like the idea of open sights as either back up or for very quick shots. The shotgun has open sights and a red dot, plus a weapon light. I would not want to hunt big game with my AR rifles, nor would I want to hunt squirrels with my 6.5 Creedmoor. Each caliber / weapon has a best use factor. Bottom line, If I do my part (shot placement) they will all get the job done. know your weapons and know you skill level, then match the two together and you will have a winner.
     
    Old Geezer likes this.
    1. Old Geezer
      > Didn't know about the Wylde barrel/chamber. Did my reading. Thanks.
      > Many folk fail to understand that each caliber has its purpose. One requires different firearms for differing purposes. One size does not fit all.
      > Don't you hate it when someone asks what the best survival firearm is?! How stupid.
      > Many fail to understand that the tiny/thin/whip barrels are simply not their friend. In competition, people fire warm-up shots to not only warm-up their barrels to shooting temperature, but also to foul the barrel a bit. That barrel sure is going to be fouled when firing for scoring. If you are hunting and the first shot will be your only shot, that is another matter. If figuring on sending a bunch of lead downrange, better have a REAL barrel, i.e. a thick one. M60 came with thermal glove and spare barrel -- barrel too hot?, time to swap. British Vickers had a water-cooled barrel.
       
      Old Geezer, Jul 4, 2021
      TMT Tactical likes this.
  17. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
      510/575

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Wow....TMT Tactical....

    .223 Wylde...is that ammo you can buy...readily available??? OR do you roll your own ammo for that??

    I too am looking it up in my Hornady Reloading manual...


    Olde Geezer...

    Years ago, as a much younger buck, when in the Army National Guard....they issued me an M60 Machine and a blank adapter...and bandoliers of blanks in 7.62 x 51mm calibration. I was so young and stupid...I thought it would be cool ....tacti- cool...to be carrying around an M60 and bandoliers of blanks.

    After about 30 minutes ....I rapidly tired of hauling around that very M60. That sucker gets heavy quick!!!

    It may look tacti-cool in the movies and books....but not in real life.

    Too much TV and movies when I was young...reality is a much different reality...much much different.

    Watcherchris
    Not an Ishmaelite.


    Ok....

    .223 Wylde is not listaed in my Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading telling me it is a special or specialty chambering.


    Ok....looked it up on the web....apparently this chambering will handle regular military 5.56 mm ammunition in addition to the Wylde designed ammo.

    Though it has been awhile since I've studied it...for some reason...I recall that some ammo...mayhap the Wylde Design has a different shoulder angle...though the overall case length can be the same. Now I might be thinking of another wildcat calibration but for some reason that comes to mind..

    But I did not know until researching it just now that chambering will handle regular 5.56mm as well.

    Nonetheless....now I know something I did not back when I awoke this morning.

    Thanks for the introduction TMT Tactical.
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  18. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
      525/575

    Blog Posts:
    1
    Let's see if I can find that article again. The Wylde is a chamber size. Has to do with lead-space = how far bullet has to travel before engaging rifling. There's pressure differences between the .223 commercial/civilian and the 5.56 military loading. I read the article then killed it. Let's go a'searchin'

    Here's the search results, several articles:

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=ar-15+wylde&atb=v140-1&ia=web

    Here's a good article:

    https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2018/11/15/223-wylde-the-ideal-ar-15-chamber/

    .
     
    TMT Tactical and watcherchris like this.
  19. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
      525/575

    Blog Posts:
    1
    Thing about lead-space / how far does bullet have to jump: The shorter the distance for a bullet to travel before it hits the rifling, the better the accuracy. However, this causes a very sharp pressure spike. If you have a robust barrel/receiver, then OK the weapon is not going to blow-up / no problem.

    Knew a fellow who blew the top off his rifle at the chamber section.

    In target .22 LR rifles, the chamber is such that the bullet is right up against the rifling. Since it is a .22 rimfire, the pressures are not going to cause any issue.

    Lotta guys fire-form their brass for higher accuracy. I used to crimp on the cannelure, not for accuracy, but so that bullets wouldn't be driven back into the case when I had a bunch of rounds in a magazine and the recoil was going to be heavy.

    It's all about give and take, isn't it.
    .
     
    TMT Tactical and watcherchris like this.
  20. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
      510/575

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Yeah....after re reading that article I finally concluded that Wylde is a special chamber design...not a round..


    Thanks ,
    Watcherchris
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  21. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
      510/575

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Each firearm and caliber was chosen for a specific purpose. In some case's they may have a dual purpose. The 223 Wylde (AR15) is my small to medium sized varmint (ground hogs, coyotes, etc. ) rifle and it is also my medium range force multiplier. The 7.62 x 39 (AR15) is my heavier game animal (wild hogs, small deer) rifle and my close range force multiplier. The 6.5 Creedmoor is my larger game rifle and my long range defense rifle. The 22 lr rifle and my pellet rifle are my small game weapons. The pistols are my EDC self defense / personal close range weapons. The 9 mm carbine is my home defense weapon, along with my 12 ga. semiauto shotgun. The 243 SAKO is my beautiful classic rifle. It is a tack driver, a sub MOA shooter and fully functional. The trigger is set at 1.5 pounds. This 243 SAKO is my "SAFE QUEEN" as it was built in 1958 and it is almost impossible to get parts for it. Down the road I have plans to get a lever action 44 mag rifle and a 44 mag pistol. They have no special purpose except I want them as an inheritance for my senior son. Since my eyesight is aging along with the rest of me, all my long guns (including the 9mm carbine) have scopes on them. The pistol has a reflex sight. Again way down the road, I plan to get a day/night vision scope. This scope could move up the list if things get more unsettled. The current plan for the day/ night vision scope is for it to be mounted on the 6.5 Creedmoor for night hunting but that could change. I may need to consider getting an AR10 in 6.5 Creedmoor and mount the day / night scope on it, again dual purpose, hunting and force multiplier. Just something to consider. The changing social situation could force me to alter my purchasing plans.
     
    watcherchris likes this.
  22. arctic bill

    arctic bill Master Survivalist
      360/460

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Old geezer it is called head space. I watch a very good program on guns blowing up last night, the worse one was the bmg with bolt action . A semi auto will absorb some recoil one poor guy got the bolt slammed in to his shoulder.
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  23. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
      525/575

    Blog Posts:
    1
    Wrong.

    The following is headspace:

    upload_2021-7-5_16-57-27.png

    upload_2021-7-5_16-58-6.png

    upload_2021-7-5_17-5-10.png
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  24. arctic bill

    arctic bill Master Survivalist
      360/460

    Blog Posts:
    0
    I stand corrected , You learn something new every day, thank for setting me right.
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
    1. Old Geezer
      With shooting and weaponry there is an ocean of "this'n'thats", this is why I always head for a gunsmith when I have any issue with a firearm. I know a lot about this and I know a lot about that, however when it comes to NEEDING to know, I head for an expert who handles the issue day-in and day-out. Me, I'm Mr. Jackofalltrades. For the jobs I've held, this has been necessary. What I'm really good at is knowing where to go, who to go to, for the full set of answers.
       
      Old Geezer, Jul 5, 2021
      TMT Tactical likes this.
  25. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
      525/575

    Blog Posts:
    1
    Having a used rifle's headspace checked by a gunsmith is very important for safety reasons. This is especially true of used military rifles. If the headspace of the rifle barrel's chamber is too great, then you can get case neck splits and worse, much worse, you can get a case separation. A case separation can cause gasses at god-awful pressures to exit the rear of the chamber in the direction of your face. Rifle actions have millings to try to vent this pressure should a case let go.

    I've had neck splits happen on old .303 ammo, but often that's just due to the fulminate of mercury primers giving off mercury fumes and that beginning to eat the case.

    What the gunsmith will do is place a no-go gauge in the chamber. If the bolt will close on a no-go gauge, then the chamber is too large.

    What causes problems in older rifles is that they have been fired so many times that the bolt face has been set back. Military armorers check used rifles and if this phenomenon has happened, a new bolt head of a larger size (lengthier) can be put on.

    https://www.sinclairintl.com/guntec...mportant-how-to-check-it/detail.htm?lid=17125

    All used military rifles should be checked by a gunsmith. A friend of mine used to re-barrel old bolt actions. He'd send the actions off to get the metal hardness on the actions checked. A gun smith with the right tools can also get a harness level checked for you. There's the Rockwell hardness scale, but that isn't the only measurement. I forget what other scales there are. I'm no millwright. There's a better scale than Rockwell used for rifle actions and I forget its name.
    .
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  26. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
      510/575

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Head space is extremely important. Too much and accuracy will suffer and too little and the weapon and the shooter may suffer. I use Hornady Headspace Gauge Bushings, and the Hornady comparator along with the insert kits, the Hornady Anvil Base, and a Hornady Modified Case to determine my rifle's actual head space the to make sure my reloads are seated to the optimal length and depth. My 6.5 Creedmoor has a maximum magazine length of 2.950" , which dictates the maximum length of a mag fed cartridge. The COTL (Cartridge Ogive to Lands) is 2.266" with the Hornady 147 gr. ELD-M. CTO (Cartridge to Ogive) is 2.256. This leaves a ten thousands jump to the lands. SAMI spec = Maximum COAL (Cartridge Over All Length) is 2.825" my loads are 2.890". The extra length allows me to get closer to the Lands, which helps with accuracy. The longer length of the mags also is a huge help by allowing me to reload and feed longer cartridges. Reloading is a science but it is not "Rocket" type science. Pay attention to what you are doing, keep good accurate notes and get the right tools for the right job.
     
    watcherchris and Old Geezer like this.
    1. Old Geezer
      Wow, excellent info. I never got into reloading that deep. For my accurate rifles, I buy the specific target ammo they like. I've just been eating the price. I found one commercial loading that both of my accurate rifles liked. What's the odds of that?! So, I bought a stack of that. Because I live in wooded mountainous areas, long shots just never were the situation. I admire long-distance shooters. The thing that is the fly-in-the-ointment is always windage. Mother Nature will give you one wind direction at 100 yards then another at 800 yards. She's a mean one, that Woman!
       
      Old Geezer, Jul 5, 2021
      TMT Tactical likes this.
    2. Old Geezer
      Old Geezer, Jul 5, 2021
      TMT Tactical likes this.
  27. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
      510/575

    Blog Posts:
    0
    I consider myself just an average grade reloader. I am no where near as precise or dedicated as the long range PRS (Precision Rifle Shot / Shooter). They will separate out every cartridge by weight and case by water volume capacity. They will measure and trim (turn down) each case to obtain perfect neck tension and concentricity. Their electronic scale will measure in 1,000th of a grain and cost over a thousand dollars, just for the scale, auto powder dispenser and powder trickler are extra, big time adds. These shooters / reloaders are trying to consistently get sub-quarter inch groups at 100 yards. Me, I am thrilled if my groups are half inch MOA. Then I figure I can pat myself on the back for a well done reloading job.
     
  28. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
      525/575

    Blog Posts:
    1
    Long ago and far away, I was saying that the military/varmint 5.56x45/.223 case should be necked-up to 6mm at least, so that it would be more effective ... and not be burning powder out past the muzzle, i.e. loud and wasteful. The heavier bullets would allow deeper penetration and retained energy at distance. Many wildcat loads were developed with this case during the past 45+ years. The .257 Roberts has been around for over half-century, but hasn't been adapted to a military-style platform.

    Now there is the 25-45 Sharps. The bullet is .257 cal / 6.5 mm. Exellent. Feeds fine through the AR-15 platform. Thing's been around since 2014, but I'm only learning about it now. Me, I've always been keen on the old bolts in military calibers. The case capacity to bore capacity is such that all the powder gets burned even in 20 inches of barrel. The .308 has this efficiency also.

    As many of you know, Texas is having an environmental disaster with the massive over-population of hogs. How to drop many of these nasty critters and quickly so?! Well this 25-45 rifle is proving its worth in that department. Bolt-actions are OK if you want to drop a hog or two for the evening BBQ for friends and family. However, attempting to knock even a tiny dent in the massive hog overpopulation, y'gotta have more firepower.

    The 25-45 cartridge:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.25-45_Sharps



    ----------------------------------------

    Killing hogs with the 25-45 "Swine-smasher" loading




    Reloading the 25-45:



    Forming 25-45 cases using .223 brass (try not to look at this @$$-hat's stupid haircut):

     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  29. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
      515/575

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Today I had someone come to me seeking advice on his newly purchased AR15 . I will pose a question to you guys . On using reloads for this rifle , do they feed through as they should ? He also is planning to rig it up for night work as well as day work , so is looking into a low profile laser for night , accompanied with open iron sights for day . Any thoughts or suggestions on the sights ?
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  30. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
      525/575

    Blog Posts:
    2
    Reloading for the AR-15 is more of a situation of remanufacturing back to factory made stats than reoading for most other firearms. The AR-15 in my experiance is a sort of picky beast. It works well with reloads that closely duplicate factory ammo. That means full length resizing and when you find a load that hits the sweet spot you stick with it.

    Most of my reloading was aimed at accuracy where when I was feeding a AR-15 it was mostly about cheaper rounds. They are ammo eating monsters. Once you get to going you just don't want to stop and I would go through 4 or 5 30 round mags in a hurry. I didn't like the easter egg hunt that followed dumping a few magazines. The AR seemed to throw cases all over the place while my Mini 14 dumped them into a smaller area.
     
    poltiregist and TMT Tactical like this.
  31. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
      510/575

    Blog Posts:
    0
    I do full resize my brass and do not have any feeding issues. I also spend considerable time working up my loads. The preferred powder load, bullet seating depth, bullet type and bullet grain weight the barrel twist rate prefers. I reload my AR15 ammo using the same method I use for my bolt action rifles. As for sights, that is a matter of preference and quality of the shooters vision. My rifles have 6 x 24 x 50 scopes. That is a bit overkill for for shooters with good eyesight. In my opinion, an AR15 sighted in at 200 yards is good for 100 to 300 yards. Past 300 yards the 556 /223 starts to have major drop and wind deflection issues. I do use a brass catcher on my AR15, as I don't want my brass bouncing off the ground or having to hunt for the spent brass. Laser sights are designed for very close work (QCB) and in semi darkened environment. Anything much past 25 yards, in sunlight and they are almost invisible. It has also been my experience that many shooters can't hit the broadside of a barn with open sights. If the shooter has decent vision, then a LPO (low power Optic) scope may be the best option. These are just my opinions and with them and $3.00, you can get a cup of coffee at Denny's.
     
    poltiregist likes this.

Share This Page