The first rifle ffor people who dont know guns

Discussion in 'Gun Comparisons' started by Tom Williams, Jun 19, 2016.

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  1. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    A great little rifle for people who are not use to a firearm is a simple little 22lr rifle called the cricket its short light single shot easy to learn with at a fair price of 139 bucks brand new this little rifle is well made very fine shooting rifle i have two very old ones that work great for a day of plinkin a sit under a tree for squirrels and is a great carry on the trap line these fine little rifles are a smart buy to learn about guns on and a fine little work horse after you are use to it yes its a single shot never jams easytoclean and care for its a great little rifle
     
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  2. CivilDefense

    CivilDefense Expert Member
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    My niece has a Cricket. Neat little .22 rifle. A Ruger 10/22 is another good starter rifle. They can be had for a couple c-notes, give or take, and aftermarket magazines parts are available pretty much everywhere. They're pretty easy to maintain too.
     
  3. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    Semi auto for someone just learning notbest choice jams and the abilty to just spray rounds let them learn basic saftey and to make each shot count one shot one kill better than spray and did i hit anything in survival each round counts make best use of ammo
     
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  4. Doubletap45

    Doubletap45 New Member
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    A semi auto can be a good choice if you're only buying one gun. Kids have to be taught to handle a rifle responsibly. If they are not old enough for a semi auto, chances are they are not old enough or mature enough for a single shot. You can also only load one or two rounds in a 10-22 magazine. Gives the kid good practice in changing and loading mags.
    Every situation is different, sometimes a single shot or bolt gun may be best, but don't count out the semi auto if you feel your kid has the maturity.
    Nothing wrong with the rifle the OP mentioned. Great price also.
    My 2 cents
     
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  5. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    No kid of mine under 16yo gets a gun unless it is zombies!
    I will not make children into combatants!
     
  6. Doubletap45

    Doubletap45 New Member
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    I don't think younger kids should have a gun that they have control of. That said, knowing how to safely handle a weapon when a child is mature enough to do so is not a bad thing. Much depends on the kid themselves. As a parent, you make the choice.
    My kids were taught to shoot at about the age of 10 years old. They were taught to never touch a gun as soon as they could understand what a firearm was, and they respected that. I used to leave an unloaded gun laying out to test them. They were taught to tell me or their mother if they saw a gun unattended, to never touch it. They always came to us and didn't touch the weapon.
    Partly because I took them out when young and showed them what a gun could do if they were to someone if they handled one and it went off. A few jack rabbits with big holes through them from a 30-06 with 110 grn soft point bullets made a huge impression. They saw what a gun could do. They were not scared by this; they learned to respect what a firearm could do. Guns have always been a part of our daily lives. They saw me target shoot from a young age in the back yard and as a LEO, I carried a firearm with me daily.

    I will never tell someone when or even if they should teach a child to handle a weapon. That is a choice every parent who owns a weapon has to make. In my experience, with mature kids and keeping weapons lock up when not in use, it's more of a benefit. Kids are curious about things they don't know about.
    In my parents and grandparents time, a loaded firearm was kept by the front door. That was the way it was. Times may have changed , but there are so many things that can injure or kill a kid and we let them be around them every day. That said, other kids who came over to the house were not taught how to safely handle guns, it is a different world today, so weapons were never left unlocked.
    I never wanted my kids to be "Warriors" at a young age. That is not why they were taught gun safety and gun handling. It was for their safety. A kid never taught gun safety is very likely to pick up an unattended gun (in your home or someone else's home) and pull the trigger. A kid who has been taught gun safety won't, they know better.

    As a parent, gun training is up to you and your beliefs. You know your kids better than anyone. In any case, in todays world, guns should not be left unattended, loaded or unloaded when kids are around. I still make sure my guns are put up when my Grandkids come over. They have all been taught firearm safety by their parents, but I'm not going to risk an accident.
    Guns can be deadly, but so can a bath (way more kids drown in the bathtub than are killed by a firearm), crossing the street, climbing high in trees, the knife in the kitchen drawer. Yet when we judge kids to be mature and old enough, they are allowed to take a bath without constant supervision, let to go out and cross a street and do many other things that could get them killed. Common sense is always the rule of the day.
     
  7. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    I am a firearms instructor ive bee teaching firearms saftey and shooting longer than most of you been alive i have a sheriff and 6 state troopers ive instructed now i have a 19 year old young lady going to rio to shoot for the usa team the single shot one shot one kill saves ammo the spray of ammo from a semi burns ammo up IN SURVIVAL ONE SHOT ONE KILL IS A MUST FOR HUNTING OR DEFENCE. Semi take tear down and clean after shooting to a level someone with no knowlege of guns would be in trouble with jamming
     
  8. Doubletap45

    Doubletap45 New Member
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    You make some good points Tom. The thing one must look at is that in a SHTF situation (and many others), you are likely to encounter more than one threat at a time and getting a good solid hit the first time on a real person, who is moving or partially behind an object, while bullets are flying at you is not always going to happen.
    One shot does not always put a person down either. I speak from experience.
    If someone chooses to carry a semi auto weapon, they should also know how to clear jams and maintain that weapon.

    Congrats on your Daughter going to Reo to shoot for Team USA. You must be darn proud !
     
  9. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    Not my daughter she local girl that started shooting with us at 7 and kept going great kid we are proud of her survival in a firefighttakes a cool head where you pick your shots conserve ammo after shtf this is more important due to fact ammo is going to be hard to get rare ammo made overseas even harder iown 114 guns none are cals made overseas and cals that are very common so ammo is easy to get i have a mini 14 great gun but for knockdown power very poor we use 3006 m1s and 308 m14s for this hit with these from us we pretty sure your not getting up
     
  10. Para173

    Para173 Well-Known Member
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    Don't forget that lever action saddle carbines offer a good choice for new shooters too. They are easy to learn to use.
     
  11. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    lever are great new ones have safteys that make them better. one shot at a time makes a person make the shot count. this makes a single shot better they become better with the working of the action loading unloading
     
  12. Para173

    Para173 Well-Known Member
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    I've been thinking about a first weapon idea. I teach firearms to novice shooters in my area. There is no such thing, to me, as a perfect first weapon. There are better options depending on different factors. For example, does the shooter have any physical problems? What kind of area or shooting scenario does the user plan to find themselves in or needing to survive? Can they be taught to make maximum use of their firearms, tactics and gear? But assuming that I have a decent starting point with the shooter and so on, I would think that any shooter I would want to instruct I would want them to layer their firearms. Firearms are like any other tool: they break, jam and malfunction. Because of the potential for trouble a smart user plans ahead and would have a back-up plan. What that means is a minimum of two guns, not one, ready to go at all times.

    Your primary firearm should be a scoped rifle of some kind. A scoped rifle gives you enhanced accuracy, especially at close range. You really are not looking to turn your rifle into a sniper rifle but you are looking to enhance the accuracy like the ACOG and SUSAT scopes have done for the U.S. and British military forces. A simple 4X or 4 power scope can do wonders for the average shooter without going to great extremes.

    Your secondary firearm should be a pistol of some kind. The idea behind the pistol is that you would use it for close range combat or when your primary (rifle) fails to properly function. Your pistol should be kept simple so that it isn't complicated and won't fail you because of problems like lack of batteries.

    Your next weapons should be weapons you choose for melee fighting or close quarter battle. These weapons include tomahawks, hatchets and fighting knives. These weapons are back-ups to your rifle and pistol. They also give you a silent option for engaging a bad guy should you need to do so.

    So, my suggestion for a good overall survival rifle: a scoped AK of some kind. They were designed to be used by illiterate Russian peasants in the bitter cold of a Siberian winter. They come in 3 main calibers with the original caliber, 7.62 X 39, being a good choice even today.

    For the handgun, I suggest a good 9 mm or a good .45 acp pistol. Both of these are military and police rounds. The .40 caliber S&W pistols come next. Any of these 3 calibers/millimeters make for a decent choice as long as you practice with them.

    By and far, the best overall fighting knife is the Kabar. Military people prefer it hands down. Don't get me wrong, there are other good knives out there. Pick the one that you prefer. The key is to have one handy when you need it.
     
  13. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    ive instructed many students one just won gold in rio very proud of her we start young students age 8 most. off the time with the single shot little cricketit size fits the student well as they grow and improve other weapons are added tothe course by age 12 legal hunting age here they have takein the hunters safety course and passed it theyhave used 22 shotguns and light rifles 243 many times theyknow safety and shooting well age 14 and above we start pistol training with 22 revolvers we teach hunting and target shoot ing to students not military tatics semi auto rifles are only on the range fri eve and sat morn and they are not owned by the club all student here know firearms well how to use and how to maintain them. this was set up as a suggestionfot peole who dont know firearms and is a safe very good 22rifle to learn with
     
  14. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    Tom, how do you reconcile with yourself or your god for making child soldiers?
     
  15. Para173

    Para173 Well-Known Member
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    Child soldiers? That's kind of cold, isn't it? Tom is talking about RECREATIONAL shooting for the most part and basic survival shooting in an emergency situation. I don't think that anybody who is American, British, Australian and so on make "child soldiers." Me? I see survival in a different way because I understand history to be a violent thing. History involves combat, primitive survival in hostile areas, lousy terrain and so on. When I was in a war zone, I found that the people who made child soldiers were the ones who were heartless and killed a kid's family. After a kid loses everything and everybody, they often turned themselves into killers on their own. I saw kids as young as 10 and 12 who wanted a piece of the communists' rear ends because of what they had done to the kids' families. They would go out of their way to find, kill and mutilate an enemy soldier when they could do so. But fun in the sun isn't producing child soldiers. Teaching kids about the science of ballistics, math, bullet drop (gravity) and so on is far from wrong.
     
  16. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    Tom knows what he is doing, he's been at it longer than we have been alive or so he says!
    He schools them in shooting and shooting is shooting! it sure as hell ain't tiddly winks!

    So when are child soldiers acceptable?
    And yes it is cold but not as cold as a childs body after it loses that firefight!
    concequences matey
    Talk is easy to bury your child is far far worse!
     
  17. Para173

    Para173 Well-Known Member
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    Arkane, recreational shooting is a lot different than military or combat shooting. Teaching children to shoot at paper targets is not teaching them to be soldiers. I've taught both of my sons to shoot and neither one of them have become military people of any kind. I think that I'm the last of the soldiers in my family unless one sneaks in down the line many years from now. Over here in the U.S., 99.99% of our shooters are not military people. Most are either hunters or sports shooters of some kind. For every lone anti-gun nut that we have over here, we have at least 20 people who are pro-gun. That's why, really why, the anti-gunners can't win in the legislatures. They don't want to admit it openly but any wins that they do make are always temporary in nature and will eventually be overturned either in courts or in follow-up legislation. So, child soldiers end up being a myth until you get in combat or actually go to a war zone. It is in a war zone that you will find child soldiers who are seeking revenge against the evil people who hurt or killed their family members. But sports shooting should never be equated with some distorted liberal agenda propaganda item like child soldiers.
     
  18. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    Para173
    I have to disagree with you there! but I have neither the time or care to debate it!
     
  19. Craig K. Thomas

    Craig K. Thomas New Member
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    Maybe a beginner will be fine when start shooting with some type of guns like: 22 caliber rifle, Shotgun, and Bolt action centerfire rifle which you just add an ar 15 scope as I introduced on My homepage, that is good enough.
     
  20. SgtB802

    SgtB802 New Member
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    I disagree it's all how you teach them my son has been around them since he was a small child and was tight to leave them alone. When he was big enough to start shooting from a bench he was started with a 22 single shot. At 8 my soon took his first deer with black powder and he loves the outdoors hunting and fishing a lot better than Xbox in my mind. My son has his own firearms and even has a 22 pistol for running the trap line the thing is you don't have to turn them into a soldier to teach them responsibility and safe firearm handling. Another thing is if you teach them young they have less curiosity about them when they get older. One of first things I showed my son was I shot a watermelon with a 300 win mag at 40 yards and explained how dangerous they are. He still tells his friends to leave them alone and they are dangerous if you don't respect them.
     
    1. Ystranc
      Yup, you've got to watch out for those watermelons, the damn things will getcha if they can....shoot'em on sight:D:D:D
       
      Ystranc, Sep 6, 2017
  21. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    I began teaching my kids to shoot when they were around age 11 or 12. A starter rifle to consider is the Henry lever action series of .22 rimfire (non-magnum) rifles. These rifles are made in America, hurrah! I have one in .22 magnum ( I've owned rifles and revolvers in this cal. for over 40 years) and it is a splendid / cute rifle that my wife and I both love to shoot.

    Back when, the tiny Chipmunk .22 rifles didn't have good enough steel for high velocity .22 ammo. The bolt set back for the one I bought my daughter. I recommend only .22 standard velocity ammo, or better yet, .22 CB caps to be shot in these tiny bolt-actions from Italy. Low energy ammo also does not give off the report of H.V. ammo.
     
  22. LilSoldierGirl

    LilSoldierGirl Well-Known Member
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    I note that this topic is about those new to shooting, not children new to shooting.

    I was introduced to shooting several weeks before going into the army. On a family farm I went from bolt action .22lr to 308 in 30 minutes. Emphasis was on safety, trigger control and breathing.

    Within weeks of my first shot I was regularly shooting assault rifles and light machine guns. Within 12 months medium machine guns, pistols and grenade launchers were added to that list.

    I performed very well, usually outshot all the boys except the country boys. In my opinion it's not the gun that is important, but the quality of the instruction.
     
    Ystranc, jeager and Old Geezer like this.
  23. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    Excellent!
     
  24. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    Ruger 10-22 is the easiest r.f. rifle on the planet to customize into any you feel a .22 r.f. should do.

    I've "built" a number of them and the only thing left that was original was the receiver.
    I have one left that I built up to suit me and only me.
    Shilen heavy barrel, Kidd parts, adjustable stock, and more.
    Getting .05" at 50 yards with any decent ammo is easy and .250" with target or match grade ammo.

    This 10-22 is for hunting so 1/2 inch at 50 is way more than necessary.
    Still "only accurate rifles are interesting."
     
  25. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    Most likely every gun owner here knows that.

    "youll only deliver 1 moa from a bench rest"

    I don't understand the meaning and context of that statement.

    One m.o.a. from what distance and with what firearms, etc.?

    'Splain please.
     
  26. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    I'm pretty sure that Tom is only recommending the single shot cricket as a first gun for a young shooter. No-one is expecting them to shoot anything more then a squirrel or a bunny and no-one is expecting them to go into combat.
    One small point Tom, I wouldn't encourage kids to "sit under a tree to shoot squirrels" as you describe at the beginning of this thread because there is no adequate back stop.
     
  27. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    I'd LOVE to have a Cricket .22 rifle. I'm 70, been shooting since 10 and have a lot of nice
    firearms but the l'il Cricket is sooooooooooooooooo cute!:D

    My the by f.w.i.w. I just ordered a case of Federal hi vel h.p.

    5250 rounds.
    Not because I need more but because it was a super great buy @ 3.7 cents a round.

    Fed. isn't even my favorite rim fire ammo but it's plenty good 'nuff.

    When that ammo comes in I'll have at least 20,000 rounds of .22 r.f.

    That orta hold me a while.:p

    (actually my goal is 50,000 rounds of .22 r.f. on hand)
    (so I'm o.c.d.!) :>)
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2017
  28. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    Been thinking about the question "first rifle for those who don't know guns" and changed my
    mind to............................NONE!

    The FIRST thing a newbie needs to do is LEARN...........READ, and READ some more.

    Then find people that DO know firearms and talk, and listen, listen, listen.
    Ask questions then LISTEN some more and I don't mean listen to the unshaven, unkempt,
    smelly, pot gut, beeroholic, next door either.
    READ!
    Ask questions here please.
    I'm a certified instructor in almost every hand and should fired firearm made.
    I DO NOT teach any longer. Too many idiots and I don't want to get shot or sued. (again)
     
  29. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    Good post.
    I prefer stealthy to sneaky.

    I once posted about sneaking into a neighbors woods and some bozo thought I was illegal
    and pouching and ripped me on a site. Idjit.
     
  30. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I just ran across this thread. WOW!!! I guess it must be a regional thing. I got my first gun when I was 9. It was a single shot junior sized 20 gauge shotgun. I got my first rifle when I was 12. It was a lever action 22LR. My first pistol came along when I was old enough to buy it myself. Even before the shotgun I always had a BB gun. I have hunted all of my life and that is hard to do without a gun though I must say, I was deadly with a slingshot when I was a kid.

    I did basically the same with my Daughter and we hunted together and did a lot of shooting together. I don't see hunting as in any way making a kid into a soldier. Where I was raised shooting was more like bowling than anything else. We would go out and shoot tin cans and paper targets just for fun. Now, that said I also was taught and taught that a gun could be used to protect myself. When my wife and I would go out to eat and leave my daughter at home I found it nice to know that though she was alone out in the country, she was not helpless or unprotected.

    Maybe it is the difference between city folk and country folk. In town you can call the police and at least hope that they will show up pretty quick. When you are out in the woods with the nearest real town 20 miles away you had better plan on taking care of things for yourself because it may be an hour before a deputy can get around to you.

    The thing about kids is that they are capable of a lot more than we see today. In the past a lot of "kids" were considered adults at age 12. My Dad graduated from High School at 15 and left home to work in an aircraft factory until he turned 16 and joined the navy during WW2. I always felt that it was better to raise my kid to be as self sufficient as possible. I trained her to handle guns safely and she was/is a damn fine shot. When she moved out I gave her a sawed off 12 ga shotgun as a house warming present. This went with her 20 ga shotgun and a handgun.

    This sort of attitude about guns is pretty much the norm in Rural Texas and among the city folks that have rural roots. We hunt and fish and introduce our kids to this at a very young age. Guns are a right of passage for most of us and steps along the way of a boy especially on their way to being a man. We also all carry knives and give them to our kids at a fairly young age. I think I got my first pocket knife at about age 7 or so. I needed it to clean fish and game.

    I also have a Cricket and it is a great little gun for both teaching a kid and for me to carry in my boat or truck as a game getter that is small and light. It is good for a kid because it separates the loading from the cocking. Most bolt actions cock when you throw the bolt but the cricket has a seperate firing pin that you then cock by pulling it back before shooting. This means there is never any uncertainty about whether it is ready to fire or not.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2018
  31. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    You got your air rifles. You got your rimfires. You got your centerfires.

    Rimfires = little noise at all. Rimfires = some noise (SHTF, use subsonic ammo and silence if you need quieter yet). Centerfires, oops; they loud!

    What'cha'gonna shoot, Billy?!

    Air rifles (I recommend .22 pellet size; .177 am light save for sitting birds) and rimfires bring home meat for the stew pot. Centerfire brings home heavy meat -- hang it up, disembowel it, cape it, quarter it up, ribs and such.

    Centerfire can also handle the big two-legged variety of critter -- the critter what can't grow feathers.

    One hundred-plus years ago, folk would carry rifles and handguns of the same caliber. Smart.

    Nothing wrong with lever rifles and pump-action rifles. The 30-30 is not obsolete.



    Semi-autos are NOT the way, the truth, and the light.

    You wanna reach out there and touch something (someone?), go with a bolt -- two inches high at 100yrd, spot-on at 200 yards/meters, a foot low at 300yrds, and a yard low at 400. "You may find some variation in trajectory."

    Enormous topic, far too little room to give details.
     
  32. watcherchris

    watcherchris Expert Member
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    Stupidity posted by Arkane


    And repeated here.

    And here....again.....


    We here in America are so affluently ignorant that we put our children in one of the most dangerous machines ever designed ...the automobile. And often we give them, in their automobiles, more stereo than the children have brains.

    Then we complicate them further by giving them cell phones so that they can socialize rather than think for themselves...
    while driving.

    And then furthermore...we send our children into public schools where they are today left defenseless...as clearly demonstrated by what happened in Parkland, Florida.


    Also on top of this .....we send our children to public schools to allow the government to pimp them out to all kinds of sex and sexuality...before their time....thus "Herding " them into adulthood before their time.

    Our public schools are teaching sex and sexuality to children at younger and younger ages and literally stealing from them their childhood while Pimping them out to sex and sexuality for which most parents would not consciously approve.

    Our Public schools have Fallen so far that they are stealing the very childhood from our children....and bringing/sexually pimping them out into adulthood before their time.


    And those talking points above are the best with which Arkane came come up in attempting to make a point???


    What I am coming up with here is that members here are teaching young people a skill, knowledge, and discipline which will serve them a lifetime...and can be carried over to other tasks requiring skill, knowledge, and discipline.

    Someone here please teach me what random, rabid, teachings in sex and sexuality of all kinds prepares one for tasks requiring skill, knowledge, and disciplines....even survival as this is a prepper site??

    If the members understand the backwardness in thinking and belief for which I am attempting to describe and define here.....they will understand more than most the insanity going on across this nation and in our public schools.

    Those of us knowing history ...we know that there was a time in this country where an educated person would be asked...." In what discipline were you educated??"

    Random, Rabid, Runaway sex and sexuality of all kinds??

    Understand now????

    For no educated, disciplined , thinking person defines themselves by their sex and sexuality and demands others go along with it and or remain silent...censored.
    Understand now what is going on in public schools today.

    And some of us are worried about teaching our children to shoot under discipline and supervision?? Astonishing!!!!


    The people for whom I know and respect.....where many of them were raised.....if one was mature enough to let go of the nipple .....so to speak....a gun was put in their hands....under supervision. If they were not mature sufficient to handle it...they went back on the nipple until they were mature enough to handle it.

    Many of these children were raised at young ages to handle a tractor....a very responsible and dangerous job/task....and with a very expensive and very valuable piece of equipment.

    Learning to handle a firearm at a young age was for many people across this land....an extension of other responsibilities with which they were often tasked....simply a part of growing up....just like handling that tractor...male and female both.
    Again ...if you were not mature sufficient to handle it ...you went back on the nipple until you were sufficiently mature in handling it.


    And here we are today educated and enlightened enough to put children into cars with more stereo than the children have brains. More stereo and cars than the children have control over their emotions fears and insecurities.

    Learning the discipline of properly and safely handling a firearm is a skill and knowledge/thinking which is translatable into many other career skills and thinking. Particularly safety...and the thinking which accompanies safety.


    Now compare this knowledge , discipline, and education to the rampant, rabid, self indulgence/entitlement which is taught in sex education indoctrination classes in public schools today and then in also the propaganda of sexuality in advertising to sell products and deceive people into believing they are more mature than they really are by buying this product or that product.

    Sorry for the lengthy post and rant...but sometimes peoples stupidity through their fears and insecurities can be astonishing to me in how it narrows their minds.....and even cripples their children's maturity.....road to maturity.


    My non Ishmaelite .02
    Watcherchris.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2018
  33. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    A 30-30 is a great rifle for moderate range hunting. Out to 150 yards it will take care of most of your hunting needs. In the lever action it is light, compact and dependable. Whee I live, other than pipeline right of ways, you will not generally be making 300 yard shots.

    I also am especially fond of my 357 mag winchester that I will carry with my Ruger 357 mag revolver. My 357 mag reloads are not safe in light weight guns. I reload to the original specs. When it was fire introduced in the N frame S&W it was a 1500 fps monster. In order to make it safe for the lighter K frame S&W revolvers it was weakened to 1200 fps. My ruger like the N frame S&W has no problem with the hotter loads and they really shine in the lever action Winchester.

    Air guns are the BOMB. I like the 177 for birds and have several of them that will shoot pellets and BBs. Birds are easy hunting and one meal wonders. For them BBs work fine. I don't have a 22 cal air rifle right now but and looking at them again. They will work fine for bunnies and squirrels. The new spring piston rifles offer a high velocity with a single stroke. With a good scope they are amazingly accurate with match grade pellets.

    Kids in general will rise to the level of your expectations and demands. My Daughter started to drive when she was 8. This is something that you can do when you live in the country and are driving on dirt back roads. If you "protect" your children from responsibility and adult behavior you may be handicapping them so that they don't grow up until they are in their 30s. This is sad because mistakes made when you are 14 don't ruin you like the same mistakes when you are in your late 20s.

    My Daughter worked from the time she was 10 on. She worked for me and I paid her. By 15 she had a checking account. I dropped a thousand dollars in her account and if her ballance ever went below that point it was a bounced check and she had to pay me twenty dollars per check. She is in her mid thirties now and is making a good living as an accountant for the State of Texas handling multimillion dollar contracts and purchasing. We had a lot of fun working together but also she learned how to act like and adult while we were on the job and how to deal with people. She handles her money responsibly but is also raising her daughter to be an independent and successful person. They live next door to me and I see my Grand Baby every day. They named her Danni after me. She is SOOOO spoiled!! Got to go and pick her up at school today...
     
  34. watcherchris

    watcherchris Expert Member
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    Nicely stated here Texdanm,

    I told a woman I was seeing years ago...that she was not helping her children by feeding them...watering them and at the same time planting them in front of the Television set while she did everything for them.

    That she needed to be teaching them the basics of taking care of household chores....survival skills....while she sat in front of the television and directed/supervised them. For some reason she had the cart in front of the horse....and did not see this as teaching them to survive. She made the mistake of thinking that keeping them comfortable and satisfied was being a good parent.

    I know lots of parents who seem want to go down the road for which she was traveling and wanting to take her children while crippling them.



    Lucky you ...so many grandparents do not see their children nor grandchildren and seldom have the opportunity to have an influence in their grandchildren's lives.
    You are blessed in this .


    Oh...by the way....that is a great way to teach a youngster to handle money...and be frugal. Nicely done Texdanm...nicely done.


    And the 30-30 is an excellent mid range rifle. Mine is a .35 Remington..but the 30-30 is more easily found across this country ...coast to coast.... north to south.


    Thanks,

    Watcherchris.
     
  35. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I don't understand this sort of thing. My daughter didn't do chores because I was too lazy to do them. LOL, most of the time at first it would have been faster and easier to do it myself. The purpose of chores is so that a child will gain an understanding that there are things you must do if you want to have things like a home and food that is more than just pig slop.

    A kid that has spent their life waited on hand and foot and sitting in front of a TV or Computer or game screen has no preparation for having to work for someone or how to make a house into a home. They go out and get a job but with no understanding that work isn't always fun and that your boss can and will tell you what to do and you have to do it they get fired quick. The next thing you know they are back living with their parents and whining that the world is picking on them.

    I never offered the idea that things were fair. Life's a beach and then you die...unless you force life to be better with hard work and wise decisions. If I had a bad day and came home tired and in a bad mood the kids learned the hard way that when the boss is grumpy you don't poke them. It wasn't fair but it is life and something that a kid needs to understand. If you see your boss coming in and can tell he is not happy you first avoid him and then make sure that you don't intentionally aggravate him. Honestly I have watched a kid lose their job because the decided that the boss was being mean and proceeded to argue with them about something inconsequential. To me they were just too stupid to have a job.

    Raising a kid is hard work. If you are lazy and take the easy road you are usually hurting your kid and passing misery down the road that will come back to haunt you. A kid needs to learn that there is no instant gratification and that most good things will require them to make sacrifices and work to get them. Taking the easy road doesn't lead to much.

    A friend has a kid that has had a lot of troubles. Got involved with meth and ended up in prison. She got out on parole and was doing great. Moved to get away from the friends that got her in trouble and got a good job and was doing putting her life back together. A friend from out of town came to visit and she got talked into blowing a joint with her "friend". At her next visit to the parole office they drug tested her and she is back in prison and all her progress is gone.

    I don't have a problem with marijuana. I've smoked iot off and on since I was about 15. It was off and on because when I had a job that might have random drug testing I didn't do it. So much of life is about choices. You have to let your kid make some bad ones so they will learn that there are consequences to stupid choices. This little girl had been "protected" for her whole life by a loving Mom. She failed to learn the hard lessons while they were just kiddie mistakes and now is learning with mistakes that will haunt her for the rest of her life.

    It is in the little things that to the kid are big things. I would tell her not to leave toys out in the middle of the floor in the living room. After a couple of warnings I would step on one and crush it. Later when she was older we told her she needed to clean her room. She was a typical lazy kid and told us she liked it that way. We told her that if she didn't clean it up we were going to do it and she might not agree with how we did it. A few days later she came home and all of the stuff on the floor was GONE. Lots of wailing, squalling and bawling. Hey we figued that if she didn't care about it and just left it on the floor it was trash. We let her believe that it was all gone for a couple of weeks then gave her a box with most of her stuff in it. I promised her though that next time it would be gone forever. We never had to do that. Decisions have repercussions. Good choices lead to good things and bad ones bite you in the butt. You HAVE to let your kid learn this as early as possible!

    I know that this has wandered a long way from the first rifle but that rifle is a matter of a kid accepting the responsibility. That responsibility doesn't just happen by accident. Prepping too me is as my Dad taught it to me as a child. Self Sufficiency means taking knowledge then making smart choices. Accepting the consequences for your mistakes and learning from them.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2018
  36. watcherchris

    watcherchris Expert Member
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    No Texdanm,

    I don't think it has wandered far off the topic of a first rifle. We are talking about responsibility and growing up to be responsible. And a first rifle is a step to being more responsible for many young people.

    And none of this increase in responsibility and the thinking/understanding which accompanies increased responsibility comes by accident.

    Responsibility needs to be carefully guided, measured, and cultivated..by wise and prudent decisions and actions.....and yes...even accepting the consequences of ones mistakes in handling responsibility.

    I often think of responsibility as being compared to that statue of Atlas...or some ancient hero with the Globe/Earth on his shoulders....the weight and measure of responsibility.

    It is not a free ride...an entitlement..it is a weight.


    Thanks,
    Watcherchris
     
  37. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    There is no such thing as a "best survival rifle" for a beginner ... or anyone else for that matter. First question is, "What are you shooting?" For self defense, one is shooting their fellow humans. Now the question is, "How far away?" Then, city or urban? How many attackers?

    For hunting, is it small game, feral dogs, deer? How far?

    If the questions approach infinity, so do the answers. Witness the "too wide topic".

    I have several configurations of rifles. Same goes for shotguns and handguns.

    If someone comes to you to ask about the purchase of a survival firearm, a technical discussion must then follow.

    "I need an outfit of clothing."

    "Going to a swank party, sir, or is it that you will be hunting on the Serengeti?"
     
  38. Photon Guy

    Photon Guy New Member
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    The crickett rifle is a good rifle for small children but a larger child or an adult whose just getting started in shooting would need something bigger. The first time I fired a gun was when I was 11 and it was in Boy Scout camp and it was a .22 which from what I remember might've been a smaller youth model but it was certainly bigger than the crickett. But a .22 is a good caliber for any beginner to start with, it doesn't kick much and its not intimidating like some of the much larger calibers.
     
  39. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    It is hard to find a full sized single shot bolt action 22LR rifle now. Everyone is auto crazy. I like the limitations that a single shot puts on you when you are starting out. It makes you take your time, pick your shots and aim. Honestly the odds of a beginning shooter hitting say a rabbit that is on the run is slim to none. Better to learn how to stalk them and just kill them with that one shot.

    The cricket is a good gun for kids and a fun toy for an experienced shooter but not what you want for an adult to learn on. They need a gun that fits so they can learn how to address it and properly aim.

    I have a friend that has two kids that have gone to the nationals in rifle shooting. They have been shooting since they were about 6 years old. One is male and the other one is female. I think that the girl is going to go to Annapolis. Both of them have been doing the Navy ROTC since they were kids. And YEAH, his 16 year old daughter is already a warrior. The 18 year old boy was man high at about 12.
     
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