The Near Future Face Of Battlefield

Discussion in 'The Hangout' started by varuna, Jul 24, 2020.

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  1. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
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    The video below is a parody and was made by using VFX (motion capture) thus NOT an actual robot. However the premise behund it is as real as it can get. The near future (20 years or so) will be dominated by unmanned system (robotic) warriors fighting one another, with human combatant most likely doing SF related task or support role. Keep in mind that currently only thing that still preventing robotic warriors from being deployed en masse is energy storage (battery power density). Once a breakthrough to produce battery that has energy density at least in par with gasoline, those robotic warriors will be deployed at any part of the world en masse.

    And for those of you whose believe something within the line of EMP or hacking, I can tell you this with high confidence that you will be in for one hell of a surprise (the kind that put you in severe disadvantage)

     
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  2. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good afternoon Varuna,

    Lithium - oxygen batteries already reached state of holding decent energy levels. I'm hearing that development is on hold pending the POTUS election results.

    Add to the enemy combatants also civilians and both non-critical and critical infrastructure.

    The robots and drones will be accompanied by microorganisms and mosquitoes.
     
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  3. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    I was in high-tech Quality Control for numerous years (decades). They designed it. I broke it. Whether electronics or software, I handed back to the designers their toys in pieces parts.

    Build it, we'll hack it.

    When stuxnet took out the Iranian centrifuges, I called a previous workmate. He told me about the workplace shakeups here and in Europe. The idiots were having people sign "loyalty oaths" to the company. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    My friend was not involved (really, honest to God, he wasn't) and he didn't specifically know how it got in. However, I do know the personality type of those who did this. Their loyalty is NOT with the internationalists. As to the work/study students from lands who oppose us, they are hated. Think they get the truth from loyal Americans, loyal Brits?! Maybe not. I hope they take the bad info back with them and get their own killed. F### the Godless into hell.

    Send robots to kill us. We'll hack'em and send'em back to kill you ... efficiently so. Smart people use marginal people to kill other marginal people. Smile as you sink the knife deep into their groin. Twist and shout, "Are we having fun now?!"


    .
     
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  4. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    All systems use sensors. Sensors can be fooled, fouled or destroyed. Kind of like the Spy V/S Spy cartoon, except in real life.

    Dale
     
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    1. Old Geezer
      You're correct. But, here's a side-note. Without giving too much away, in this particular hack, the sensors were fine. Data from the sensors was altered and sent to the SCADA system, telling it, "All is just fine; be happy, don't worry." Things weren't just fine. PLC controllers were controlling all right, but the control was altered to barely kill. "Barely killing", is "truly killing ... over time". Just like with designer biologic viruses -- delay the effect so that it can spread before anyone knows what is going on. Corona virus is a bio-WMD that has the real target of killing an economy, not the people (a rapidly fulminating virus gives the victim countries too much information). Panic button = death button to an economy.
       
      Old Geezer, Jul 24, 2020
  5. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    I want you all to be warned, I filed a complaint about the Robot abuse demonstrated in the video. Skynet knows who you are and where you live. You will be assimilated.
     
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    1. Old Geezer
      It is sensitive robots and people like yourself who maintain the goodness of our civilizationborgthingy.
       
      Old Geezer, Jul 24, 2020
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  6. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
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    IMO Its still need at least another decade for that battery to be mass produce. It sure did have the necessary energy density at least equal to that of gasoline

    I strongly doubt anyone is crazy enough to use that particular card in actual battlefield. Even Kimmy The Fat ain't that crazy (neither does his sister)

    What make that any difference than a human being?
     
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  7. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Varuna,

    You must have many more contacts than I do to know about the battery's developmental timeline. I've only heard about some basic aspects of development by DOD contractors in US and Israel. Had read that China is also working this as a priority.

    Once at accepted development function level, ...... many US weaknesses - but industrial production is not one of them.

    The 1913 French strongly doubted that any nation would violate Belgium's perpetual neutrality. I read that the French were wrong. North Korea is a proxy nation. It is not a proxy of the Maldives or Sri Lanka.

    When push comes to shove recommend not play Mah Jong with any folks at the table wearing long silk robes.


    cc: Director of International Flight Operations, MAS, KUL
     
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  8. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
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    Lithium-Air battery development came mostly from private (commercial) sector. The need for secondary power storage density in par with gasoline is so HUGE that there is no need to spend public funding for its R&D. Just let the commercial sector do it, and adopting which is suitable for military application later on (much cheaper that way). Once such breakthrough has been made, don't be surprised WHEN armoured 2 legged robotic warrior start kicking someone door. By the year 2040 I even doubt there will be any need for human crew for C&C role. In most likely case by that time the need for human as part of the C&C is merely as supervisory (to pull the plug, just in case)

    Keep in mind that just like Lithium-ion, Lithium-Air will also a generic term that encompass wide variety of type (chemical makeup) of each individual cell. Even present days Lithium-ion cell have wide variety of chemical make up (typically depend on brand / manufacturer) to the point one need to be wary as which type is suitable for their need despite they all mostly share the same form factor.
     
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  9. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    That was my point. No mechanical system is any better than the operator. The face of warfare may change, but it will always be the human factor that defeats a enemy. Even with drones and other remotely operated systems all it takes is one man or small team that has been properly trained, equipped and motivated, to locate those operators and kill them and destroy there systems.

    Dale
     
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  10. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
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    The basic premise of deploying robotic warrior is more about not risking human being rather than the robot is better than trained human. Building any kind of those robotic warriors doesn't take much time compare to making human, recruiting, training, gaining combat experience, not to mention a whole lot cheaper.
     
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  11. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Varuna,

    You're not discussing the US scene. The US has a socialist-mercantile economy and operates differently than what you mentioned above. Cost-savings are less important than revenue streams' recipients.

    US engineers can "invent" on demand.Currently the battery is in the "pure science" research phase. Enough comments are filtering out that the storage research is ahead of schedule.

    I doubt if any 2 legged robots will kick down doors. The robots won't function when targeted.

    You are fortunate to have a correspondent who lived through and experienced the "push button" war of the future with the ICBM development to reach the USSR. Ground forces were a thing of the past. WWII was the end of the soldier with mud on boots. This push button warfare started about the time the US Army made urgent contract procurements for jungle style fatigues for the non-push button war.

    In the US C&C also has a domestic political component.

    Generic terms are not used when spec calls for specifics. Battery form features and chemical composition parallels fields like pharmacy, mixing gases for deep sea dives. Think of an experienced anestheist at a real medical clinic.
     
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  12. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
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    What about manpower availability? Training people takes time & money. With robot, "combat experience" can be copy-paste from one unit to another. For countries that lack the manpower, having robot dominated force giving them an edge over their adversary (whether real or fancied)

    RAAF with Boeing have already rolling out such system (at least we don't have to worry about any person onboard WHEN the computer went suicidal)





    Infantrymen of all kind has been around since the day 2 legged monkey start to fight one another over something they want to have but didn't have. And I strongly doubt it will be gone in the next 300 - 400 years to come.

    Things are done differently in the battery business. No manufacturer willing to reveal the chemical makeup of their cell. Which made customers need to try every single one of them ourselves :mad: For example I know for certain that Lithium-ion cell from Sanyo is freakingly good for continuous & stable draw, while brand such as Nitecore is very good for rapid usage / high power draw
     
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  13. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good afternoon Varuna,

    The US military - in its large dense - has professional manpower potential (with ability to rapidly mobilize) although domestic politics precludes its assembly now. Check, ex, MPRI - Military Professional Resources Inc, the replacement for Southern Air Transport, Miami.

    A microbiologist is a MOS - Military Occupational Specialty.

    Note that critical infrastructure, military and civil plus selected critical personnel have "hardened" residences. The doors are not from Home Depot or Lowe's. There is even a Federal police force patrolling certain neighborhoods with key personnel.

    When a US company has a US Government contract, part of the contract gives USG property rights to the intellectual property developed. I will not write here that disputes can generate audits. and beyond. For the BIG contracts, a PRO is usually present. PRO = Plant Representative Office. There are many around here. "NAVPRO" = Navy Plant Representative Office.

    The US has some deep-seated political problems. Once a feather is yanked out of the eagle's wing, the US will do more than come out at the top of the pile. The US will be the entire pile plus the rest.
     
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  14. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    LOL! I remember that human part. LOL! and they NEVER let you forget what your training cost is.

    View attachment 52 54[/ATTACH]

    Personally, I believe if we forget that there is a human cost to warfare, wars will no longer be something to be avoided.

    If the side/country with the robots starts viewing war as a video game, then war will be conducted like a video game. People will die but there will be no connection to the killing for the robots operators. It would be worse if the robots become autonomous. Then people will die with "0" consequences. That should be unacceptable to humanity.

    If killing people has no meaning or consequences, then genocide becomes nothing but a math equation.

    Just my opinion.

    Dale
     

    Attached Files:

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  15. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
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    Some countries military has already viewed warfare as video game up until the boys hit the dirt and real world slap them back to reality. And I'm confident robots will become autonomous (in some sense) post 2040. Because by that time we could be seeing the rise of a Strong AI (which is needed as the robots C&C). The Rise of The Machine thus The Judgement Day will follow shortly after

    Its already did for some time even without any robot or computer involved, its just the usual politic.
     
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    1. Dalewick
      If we lose our humanity, we deserve judgement day. For me, combat was a true display of the darkest parts of human nature.
       
      Dalewick, Jul 27, 2020
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  16. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    Humanity? post lockdown I reckon a lot of people have gone mad, they always were stupid but now they've really lost it, acting like a load of rabid animals, doing what they like and attacking people who tell them off, attacking the police and each other.
    if they cant handle 3 months of quarantine how will they manage post collapse? stupid question of course, they wont manage.
     
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  17. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
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    "Loosing humanity" here is in the sense that one side no longer see the other as living breathing human being, they only see them as "target". So far warfighting has always been nasty, messy business no matter what the level of technology, however using robotic warrior may reduce the human casualty on the side that deploy them, thus significantly reduce the occurrence of having those casket with national flag on top of it.

    Regarding violence during / post lockdown, have you ever consider that just maybe it was due to the accumulation of having to take gov't BS? Where I live the majority of folks here (including myself) is already on the hair trigger to blow up. Somehow the gov't both local & national aware of this and took very careful measures, but its mostly like adding a drop of water into a glass that is nearly full
     
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  18. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    no , the rules on lockdown were fairly simple, maybe its the fact that most people are what we call "social animals" and cannot live without an audience, they come out of lockdown and go crazy.
     
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