The Pandemic.

Discussion in 'The Apocalypse' started by Keith H., Mar 24, 2018.

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  1. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Many authorities have agreed that it is not a mater of if a Pandemic will strike but when!



     
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  2. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    So what do we do when faced with a pandemic? Some of us live in the city, others in small rural towns, & yet others are already living off grid or on a farm. Is isolating yourself & your family good enough in a populated area, or should you consider getting out of Dodge? What do you do about mail delivery? What do you do about people visiting you? Can you really afford to stay in a populated area & go outside to do the shopping???
    Given your individual situations, what would you do?
    Keith.
     
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  3. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    The thing is that the beginnings are already beginning to show up. More and more diseases that in the past were simply cured with a round of antibiotics are becoming resistant. Our constant use of antibiotics is rapidly causing an evolution that may eventually bite us in our collective butts. While viruses are at this time worse in general than bacterial infections they are not getting worse because we don't have many truly effective antivirals.

    There is a strain of flu going around right now that is like nothing that I've ever seen before. It drags you down and just keeps you down. I'm talking about being sick for a solid month! The problem with it beside the fact that it sucks to be sick for that long is that in your weakened state you are subject to other complications. My wife and I are in week SIX. I'm finally about over it but my wife is fighting pneumonia and fluid on her lungs that they are going to have to drain. If something like this were to come through after any major collapse of our current medical system it would be deadly. We would not have survived.

    It isn't always the initial viral that kills you. Once you get a virus though it is pretty well going to run the course. The killers will be the bacterial infections that we all have in and around us all the time that uncompromised immune systems normally have no problem handling.

    The thing is that these days any infection can be all over the world in just a few days. People just don't have any sense and will go to these places and then run home when an infection arises. Any highly infectious disease if released in an international airport can infect the world. It no longer has to be delivered to an enemy country. Eventually some crazy group is going to do this. If the disease is fast acting with a high mortality rate it will overwhelm the worlds medical systems. We all know that any problem like this is going to set of the near subhumans and they will riot and burn the cities down.

    Don't kid yourself about people. The subhumans are among us and are a growing percentage of our world population. These are the people that don't seem to have any ability to see the results of their actions and who kill indiscriminately. The subhumans are not of any particular race or nationality they are like some sort of genetic malady that resides in all people that rises up any time the regular people stop resisting them. Sadly it seems that bad times breeds good people and good times breeds bad people.

    As a worldwide culture what I'm talking about is how a sort of disease can eat up a culture like a viral can kill a lot of people. Our entire world is sick right now. In a time of truely unimaginable wealth the amount of anger and misery seems to be growing at an epidemic rate. The "poor" in the US live a life that most of the world only can dream of and yet we are constantly having problems. The same is true in most other first world nations.

    The most frightening part of this is that our governments instead of resisting this seems to be actively encouraging it. That is the only reason that I can think of for them letting in people that we know are from terrorist nations as if they were somehow needed. These people are somehow carrying an infection along with them. Terrorists at first were outsiders but more and more they are home grown. I honestly think that this is some form of mental plague. We aren't resisting anymore. As a culture our "immune system" has been compromised.

    I know that this has wandered but I see sickness of the mind as being as deadly as any other sort of plague.
     
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  4. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    What with bacteria becoming resistant to modern antibiotics, we may have to return to the older sulfa drugs. Many folk, my wife among them, cannot tolerate these compounds.

    Preventing the spread of such contagions will be the primary means of fighting them. And as y'all have stated, that is going to be a royal pain to accomplish.

    Here in the USA, Hispanic immigration -- especially when there are waves of immigrants -- we see upswings in the Enterovirus (initials are EV) -D68, antibiotic-resistant tuberculosis, and the norovirus.

    Because of how easily mass migration is achieved, the robustness of the new contagions, and the resistance of such contagions to treatment there is likely going to come a mind-numbingly frightening plague or plagues. We will be caught even as were our ancient ancestors in a situation wherein we will be pressed to figure out our best course of action. In a world so overpopulated, how does one isolate their family. Consider also that some viruses spread between species. How scary is it when viruses jump back and forth between humans and birds.

    In the middle ages when the plague would hit, many would flee the cities. The same will happen in our age. Many will succeed in making it to rural areas and among them will be carriers.

    https://foreignpolicymag.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/ddecoder_1.jpg?w=1000&h=866

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    795d2cef8ceb7021445b79189abbd3df.jpeg
     
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  5. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    One of the sad things that follows in behind any social breakdown is a return of the diseases spread via sewage contamination. People throw it out in a ditch, it rains and spreads it into all the area water sources and the net thing you know people are dying from the same old things, colora, typhus, dysentery... these germs are still all around us but our safe water supplies and good sewage treatment has made it unheard of in most civilized places.

    In the event of disaster you MUST take the time to correctly dig and use latrines. Just stepping out and making like a bear in the woods is going to come back to bite you in the ass. I am fortunate in that I have an old style septic system that requires no power. I will use my gray water to flush.
     
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  6. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Good post mate, something for people to think about.
    Keith.
     
  7. Oldguy

    Oldguy Master Survivalist
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    When a pandemic strikes there is no telling how it is spread, it could be human to human it maybe via fleas or even bird droppings.
    Being isolated maybe useless if it is airbourne.

    Being healthy and informed maybe the best!
    Information will be essential, gather as much as you can.

    and being able to supply and administer oxygen might be the difference between life and death.
    The human body can fight off most anything given enough time, extending that time with hydration and oxygen will be the best most can do!
     
  8. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    a pandemic can spread from the other side of the world within 24 hours because of our rapid transport systems, that's one reason why I no longer use public transport, if I cant go in my own vehicle I don't go there. i'm already in a rural location, as soon as any pandemic hits these shores and it will start in the cities first because of the easy access to "hosts" we are going into total and complete personal isolation.
     
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  9. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Agreed airborne only carries so far. Isolation is the way to go & staying away from people.
    Keith.
     
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  10. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    removing oneself from the common herd is best, I read somewhere that diseases can only exist outside the human body for about 48 hours after that they die, the main exception is HIV which can survive for several weeks outside of a host.
     
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  11. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Depending on what exactly the disease is there may be nothing that you can do to avoid it. In recent years the old question of why the plagues just seemed to fade out and disappear has been pretty much figured out. It KILLED everyone that didn't have a little basic immunity to reduce the level of the disease. The plague is still out there a kid in Oregon I believe popped up with it this year. The thing is that most of us are resistant to it.

    The plague can stay alive and actively contagious for decades waiting for you to come into contact with it or for someone that is immune to bring it to you. The good thing, if such can be called good, is that weaponized diseases are generally designed to have a short life span outside of a living victim.

    Basically I am sort of doomed if there is a massive pandemic. Between the University's 20,000 from all over the country and the Prisons 25,000 from all over the place any germ is going to get here quick and spread like a wild fire on the prairie. I don't see this as any worse than being in a city though and the good news is almost none of these people will be a part of the equation in any other sort of scenario. The short term survival chances for the kids and the inmates is GRIM to say the least.
     
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  12. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    I will revive this old thread because the posts on it are almost like a Nostradomus prediction that has come to be . Keith wisely points out isolation is the preferred tactic and all the above posts seem to be right on target . I wonder if we have members presently living in close contact with other people looking for that remote survival retreat ?
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2020
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  13. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    close contact with others? just me and the wife, I don't have much if anything to do with other people apart from shopping and that is done early morning on a quiet day, get in, get the stuff, get out again.
     
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  14. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    I normally go to town once or twice a month but am set up to never go at all . That involves usually about a 70 mile round trip . right now my main outside contact is when I take my grandson to the public school . Some political figures are already talking about shutting down schools for next year . If it gets very bad though regardless whether the schools are shut down or not , nobody here will be in physical contact with a school .
     
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  15. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    we normally go to a store once a week (50 mile round trip)but that's for stuff we cant grow or store for long, fresh stuff, yoghurt, that sort of thing, cans are usually bought once a month, I am currently making sure our stores are full up and I mean FULL.
    if or when the virus comes to this area, it isn't yet, we can go into isolation and self quarantine for months.
     
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  16. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Poltiregist,

    Not living in close contact but my kids' neighbors inside the beltway are looking and ready to relocate to that "remote survival retreat". They are getting their info from former neighbors who are already there. This is the eastern sections of West Virginia. With telecommuting, a Federal civil servant needs only to be in the office once a week. The drive is worth it.

    Here, I'll remain between the corona virus and the rapidly rising tidal flood plain. Fortunately my BOP in on a hill in a forest. I've got 2 40' trailers with food - not 100% packed; have an aisle in center for retrieval and auxiliary climate control.

    My weakness here is pharma - NOT professional medical personnel: just getting any RX stuff that's needed. They can't get it.

    If younger, would already be in West Virginia.

    I'm not worried about a / the pandemic. I am worried about the secondary hazards like drivers in panic, fools storing gasoline without ever having heard about grounding, vapor control, no smoking signs, ......
     
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  17. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I had hoped that we would deal with this coronavirus thing with at least a bit of intelligence but the liberals are not going to allow that to happen. They are going to do everything in their power to turn this into that biggest clusterpuck in history. Then they will blame it on Trump. They are realizing that this is their only hope in the November elections.

    The media is doing everything possible to cause panic. As is usually they only tell part of the story and slant the reports to make things look much worse than they are. For example, The cluster of infected people and deaths in Washington state make it seem as if it is spreading. The fact is that most of the cases are all in one assisted living place. A nursing home full of old people in bad health. As these old people die their deaths will be blasted on the news making it seem as if this is sweeping across the entire state or at least Seatle.

    Expect over the next few weeks for the governments in the Liberal controlled coastal East and West Coast state to do all sorts of things to panic people. If someone in NYC shows up with the virus they will do things like close schools in places a hundred miles away. I expect them to tell people to stay home and discourage all sorts of things.

    I'm not saying that if things get bad that these would not be the right things to do but doing them now in places with only a tiny number of cases will not help and will scare the sheeple half to death needlessly. But then THAT is exactly what they want.
     
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    1. varuna
      Glad to see there is someone here who now "how to read" the statistic rather than just swallowing whatever political, fear, racist narrative that most people in typical survivalist / prepper forum does.
       
      varuna, Mar 6, 2020
  18. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    So cleaning out the shelves in mainly food stores has begun . If you want to see empty shelves or partial empty shelves across many states in the U.S. go to the now second page at zero hedge . Of course because we are all preppers on here we don't have much to worry about . My tactic when presented with a problem is to face it head on not deny it exist . That is why I have been seriously prepping for something like this . population reset may be at hand .
     
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  19. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    1st case in Cornwall this morning, next county west, they haven't said where yet.
    haven't seen any evidence of panic buying yet but I expect that is in the cities not out here in rural areas.
     
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  20. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    116 cases in the UK, 1 death but that was a 70 year old with underlying health problems.
     
  21. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
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    Use it for your advantage. Bulk buy supply such as hand sanitizer, N-95 mask, and any other mask and resell them in small quantity at inflated price during the panic buying period. And don't forget to keep some for yourself. Now go out there and be a good capitalist :p
     
  22. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    have already got supplies of the things you mentioned, I stock stuff when it is on offer or cheaper not wait until there is a panic( like all preppers should).
     
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  23. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    9 of the 12 deaths in the US were elderly people that all were at ONE Nursing Home. From what I can weed out of the limited information several died and after death tested positive for the coronavirus but may have not actually died of it.

    I will offer this...At least, if nothing else people are getting to test drive some of the prevention techniques that would be good IF there was actually a seriously deadly disease sweeping across the country. Yesterday when my wife went to the store to make a pickup at the curbside service of the grocery store the person that brings out your order and loads it for you did it without making any personal contact. When it was done my wife watched the person sign the reception slip for her rather than actually doing it herself.

    I think of this sort of feel-good thing as mostly a psychological protection for people that don't grasp how diseases are transferred. Yes, my wife didn't touch the tablet that the service person had touched and the service person had not been exposed to touching a tablet that someone else had handled BUT that same person has handled each and every item that we bought and they had been in contact with the inside of the car and close enough to my wife for a transfer via breath.

    There have been TWO people in Texas that have tested positive so far. If this is what they are doing in response to that what sort of insanity are we going to see if that number moves into the hundreds of thousands? This is at this time just stupid. My wife was in more danger driving to and from the store than she was from having limited contact with that service person. People seem to be incapable of making realistic assessments of the severity of the situation at this time due to the constant bombardment of media coverage of each and every single case in the US making it seem like it is everywhere and an imminent threat to them.

    Sheeple are pretty easy to panic and once frightened can easily be stampeded into running off a cliff. This is how tyrants often come to power.
     
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  24. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    2 deaths in the UK, both elderly with underlying health problems.
     
  25. Duncan

    Duncan Master Survivalist
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    Greetings, Pragmatist. I am (or was before yesterday morning) one of the fools you mentioned who did not know about grounding gasoline storage tanks. When I bought the homestad, I found a (empty) JME 150-gallon gravity-fed gas tank near the pasture on the side of the driveway.

    When I looked at it yesterday, I noticed that it was bolted to a concrete pad. This should have been enough, but I began to panic, so I sanded the fill pipe down to bare metal and used some #0 copper cable to ground it in two places to rods buried abouit three feed in the ground away from the pad.

    Hopefully, this should give me peace of mind if nothing else. Next step: the next three paychecks will see me pumping 50 gallons each to fill it up.

    Guide me, Pragmatist: Is there anything else I need to do beside add PRIST or some other similar chemical to the tank?
     
  26. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Duncan,

    In chron order:

    I know PRIST as an additive to aviation fuels to keep fuel lines ice-free. PRIST is a brand name. Overseas we had the foreign counterparts.

    There are other additives to prevent stored gasoline from "gumming up" ...... Think of "jelly gasoline" . Emergency responder trailers with chain saws and fuel cans have this fuel mixed with an additive to prevent anti-gumming and minimizing moisture content.

    For personal vehicle engines, gasoline with 10% ethanol blend ("E10"; Think of Senator Chuck Grassley's corn farmers' surplus) is reported to work without additional additives in vehicle engines below zero degrees F. in the lower 48 reports.

    ......

    My 2 pronged recommendation re the storage reservoir for gasoline:

    1. Suggest make personal contact with area fire marshal / fire chief. In the hierarchy of our agencies, they've got a dedicated person dealing with these basic issues for homesteaders. This accomplishes a couple of matters: know what's required for fire code compliance, get some nice pamphlets AND find out how to limit liability.

    2. Meet with an engineer who works this fuel storage arena. In this area with loads of retired/former barnacle bills, just lunch might be the cost of premier guidance. There could be parallel opportunities up your way. I'm thinking the grounding might need to be "blessed" for code compliance. After meeting with fire department, you'll have an idea what to ask engineer.

    Summary to 1. and 2. above: There are the technical aspects and there are the liability aspects. Both must be addressed.

    Don't forget a fire extinguisher !
     
  27. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    This thing's gonna spread in America and cause a lot of economic damage. This being a nasty virus, many will suffer and people with multiple health conditions will pass. This is worse than your ordinary flu. It is NOT however some sort of Ebola death-machine -- far from it. It's gonna be bad. So it goes. Welcome to your planet. Welcome to your species.

    Many economic dependencies will be pointed-out and hopefully rectified. That could turn out to be a positive thing, who knows.

    There will be several urban areas of panic. Totally unnecessary. This will point-out the critical decline in societal order. Nothing will be done to address this cultural cancer -- existed long before any contagion; will remain. Indeed, this will increase the anger within divided nations (America is now two utterly separate countries) leading to every political group and racial group blaming their enemies and doing their best to do harm because, "It's his fault!!!".

    So it goes.
    .
     
  28. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I got an education in what the sheeple are believing about this paper tiger that the media are creating. I had a rather interesting conversation with my 9 year old Granddaughter yesterday. She asked if I had heard about the Coronavirus. I told her that I had but asked her what she had heard. Well, she told me that it was all over the country and that it was deadly and killed everyone that got it. She said that there had been 60 people catch it and 59 of them died. I asked her who told her this and it turns out that one of her classmates had been told this by her mother and that she wasn't to allow anyone to touch her. OMG what sort of dumbbutt tells a kid something like that and scares the crud out of them?

    This is going to end as soon as the election is over. It is almost totally a false manufactured pandemic. Yes, they are having a hard time with it in China and in parts of the Middle East. There are reasons for this that are simple. Their medical system for people that are not wealthy is massively insufficient and easily overwhelmed. There is also not a lot of government concerned for the individual and only reacts to it when it threatens the economy or the elite.

    The US and most of Western Europe is in a different situation though the European situation is worse because of their many porous borders and free travel. The US only has one border that is a problem and thanks to Trump it is being tightened up. It never has been as open as the European borders but during the leftest presidencies, the financing and support for the border patrol were restricted.

    The death rate will be higher there because these "immigrants" will not have insurance and will not seek medical care until the disease is well advanced and probably secondary infections have started. The ones from areas with higher infection rates will spread it all over Europe because of the open borders.

    In places that have a decent health care system and in the case of people that get treatment early in the infection the death rate among the citizens will not be comparable to that of Chinese and Middle Eastern peoples. Nonetheless, the media is going to promote fear and stupid restrictions so that they can hopefully blame the problems that THEY create can be blamed on Trump. I don't think that the "Freedom of the press" should include their right to spread LIES, Misinformation or Needless Fear any more than Freedom of speech gives individuals the right to start screaming FIRE, FIRE is a crowded theater.
     
  29. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    I will have a little fun this morning and be the doom and gloom guy . So if some of you don't want to hear a dire outlook don't read any further . First lets presume the government is correctly reporting the virus death rate figure . We all can see how contagious and rapidly spreading it is . This virus apparently doesn't leave a victim immune and move on . When the virus has saturated society it will rapidly keep coming back to the same victim over and over breaking their immune system down lower each time until it takes them out . With that theory only the truly prepared and isolated will survive . ---- When it has saturated the population enough people will stop coming to work either voluntary or mandatory . That includes oil refineries . No oil refinery means no gasoline or diesel . The refinery in Port Author Texas produces twenty percent of all the fuel for the U.S. . If that collapses I think you can see where that will lead . ---- Report coming to me this morning from a fellow prepper , unusual activity being conducted along a California interstate highway today . This activity includes a army tank positioned on the side of the interstate . Speculation is they are preparing to quarantine Los Angeles .
     
  30. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good afternoon Poltiregist,

    It all sounds pragmatic to me; no doom and gloom.

    That Port Arthur refinery - the whole Gulf Coast, Port Fourchon (LOOP) , Louisiana to somewhat west of the Houston Ship Channel is critical zone with critical infrastructure. Those roughnecks and other folks there will be supplied with more face masks, gloves, HAZMAT suits, booties - anything they need to keep the place working. They'll get priority over many Northeast and Midwest medical clinics.

    Can't comment on the tank but will ask if greater Los Angeles is quarantined, where will Algore get his beer money if Hsi Lai Buddhist Temple, Hacianda Heights is off limits ?
     
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  31. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    Just found confirmation on the blockade being set up in California on a interstate highway as I posted on my earlier post today . Actually it appears there are multiple blockades being set up . source Common Sense Show .
     
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  32. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    THE Refinery in Port Arthur Texas is actually 15 or 20 refineries in the "Golden Triangle" area. Texaco, Gulf, Exxon- Mobile, Jefferson Chemical, Arco, Goodyear, Dupont, Chevron, Motiva, Valero...Etc. There is an area of Port Arthur that is called Refinery Row. The Motiva facility alone handles and processes 600,000 Barrels of oil a day and is the largest in North America. If they all went down it would shake the economy of the entire Western world. And THEN you have the Houston-Galveston area that is also massively invested in the petrochemical industry. During the Cuban Missle crisis, that area was rated as number 5 in the US to catch a bunch of nukes.

    The good news is that this area has handled a lot of disasters. If it were to get bad there is every possibility that they will lock down the plant in order to keep it operational. Working in the refineries is a little like being in the military. When they have a shut down they work around the clock with no days off until the unit is back up again. The thing is that if you shut down a plant you may have to rebuild it to start it back up. Anything that slows production is an emergency. In an emergency, they will call up people from anywhere to get it up and keep it going.
     
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  33. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    the West Coastal area has some serious problems. There are massively crowded big cities. Endless illegal aliens and massive numbers of. homeless people. They are covered with incoming ports and each one is a threat to them and potential point of infection.

    Based on what I am beginning to see I think that I am going to upgrade my preparations. It appears that we may indeed be taken down by a pandemic...not the coronavirus, a pandemic of STUPIDITY. The liberal are going crazy. I'm 70 miles north of Houston in a conservative area and we are not sweating the coronavirus. Nonetheless out stores shelves are emptying of the bottled water because of people from Houston a bastion of liberal idiocy and a sanctuary city are driving up hear and cleaning out the supplies here. WHAT IS THE FASCINATION WITH BOTTLED WATER??? I can fill up gallon jugs with tap water for free and then pour it in bottles if that is what I want. The bottled water thing is all stupidity.

    During that recent Super Tuesday primary elections, there were several cases of liberal terrorists attacking Republicans at and around the polling places. One nut job ran his car through a cover that had been set up for shade for Republicans. Don't those gun hating limp wristed idiots understand that they are messing with people that think that the world would be a better place without them? Conservatives are the armed forces of our nation and we are also the well-armed militia that the founding fathers thought was important enough to protect with the bill of rights. They are poking a lion on the ass!!! If the conservatives get enough of it they won't do like the liberals and attack and slap around kids as that one idiot did. He's lucky. If one of those idiots punched my grandkid they would have got a bullet in the head!

    Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!
     
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  34. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    I have also increased my survival supplies . Wife and daughter have noticed people buying massive amounts of canned goods . ----I am just going by another preppers statement that came by my house that under the Obama criminal reign a law was put into place that allows banks if they get in a financial bind to take the money away from the personal accounts that customers have trustingly put in their care . Do any of you know about or can confirm this . I am expecting a run on the banks . I personally know one person that drew all their savings out of the bank this morning .
     
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  35. F22 Simpilot

    F22 Simpilot Master Survivalist
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    Here in northern Colorado they are wiping out the damn store shelves of TP, hand sanitizer, rubbing alcohol and pasta, etc. And the media is to blame.

    But can you blame them though? This does look like a real SHTF situation on a day by day basis as I watch the news. As soon as the pharmaceuticals dry up, kiss our collectives asses' good bye.

    Damn shame. Trump was on a good start, but the economy is going to shit thanks to some Communist assholes eating nasty shit and for that I'm pissed. And I HATE communist regimes that manipulate their currency and take advantage of our capitalistic abilities for their own gain. We needed to make our own shit here a very long time ago. But nooooo. Thanks to the liberal fuck head there are massive taxes and regulations that made companies go overseas and now look what's happening. Trickle up my double barrel shot gun blast of my two middle fingers you left-wing scum!


    Did I mention I was pissed?
     
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  36. F22 Simpilot

    F22 Simpilot Master Survivalist
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    The theme song.


     
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  37. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning F22,

    Yes, was mentioned in para 3 above.

    I just want to confirm this by checking......OK, I'll accept your overall annoyance.

    H.L. Menchken explained it all: He said something like the problems of today are caused by the solutions to the earlier problems.

    It's little to do with epidemics or China. It's mostly internal to the US.

    "Against all enemies, both foreign and domestic"
     
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  38. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    Germany's leader " Merkel " now that she is soon to leave office told a stunned group " Germany's parliment " the truth . An estimated 60 to 70 percent of the German population WILL get the Corona Virus . This will probably hold true in most countries . Source " the common sense show " .
     
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  39. Duncan

    Duncan Master Survivalist
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    All I've been hearing for the past week is a series of "we have millions of tests available" but no one in the administration -- Trump, Pence, or any of the other bureaucratic bigwigs -- will tell us how many people (if any outside of movie stars and government managers) even have been tested! Meanwhile, the Vice President issued a command that none of his people are allowed to say anything to the press without getting it cleared with the official line (whatever that is this week).

    In his speech last night, Trump didn't say anything about when if ever we're going to get tested, but he did say that we have the best and smartest researchers and we're going who whip the snot out of this "foreign" virus. Then he said we're going to ban any kind of foreign travel and trade -- and his own people started walking it back within an hour or so.

    I'm retired and Dawn and I are as ready as we can be to ride this thing out. We have all the meds, analgesics, vitamins, etc for symptomatic treatment and maintaining health, as well as food and water for about 4-5 months. The College of Southern Idaho will be switching to online classes for the duration starting next week, so we won't have to be leaving the homestead much. But...

    ... I'm 75 and a stent recipient from 5 years ago. All in all, I'm pretty healthy, but I certainly don't trust the government any more; they seems to be blowing smoke up my arse involving this whole COVID-19 business. If I get sick, it might be a life or death thing to know whether I've got Captain Trips or a plain garden variety cold. The rest of the world seems to taking this business pretty seriously and we in the US seem to be running around with our heads up our butts.
     
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  40. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    I am 70 (this year) and have COPD, plus type 2 diabetes. I really never expect the government to tell the truth. It does not matter who is in office, they are not going to come out and tell the public to bend over and kiss their butts goodbye. Any and all government official in office are going to tell the public it is going to be alright. The public is already doing stupid stuff, just imagine how bad it would be if the President came out and said it is going to be the survival of the fittest and i wish you all good luck. Duncan at 75, your should already know the government is going to lie to you. Hell they lied to us over Obamacare, what would possess them to tell the truth now, when it is a crisis?
     
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  41. Caribou

    Caribou Master Survivalist
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    4 million tests are going out a week. The ones going to public health and other governmental agencies are being reported . The ones going to private clinics, hospitals, testing companies have no reporting requirements or system currently set up. Rather than wait for the reporting system they are getting the tests out which make sense to me. Also, some testing companies build their own testing kits.

    I think Trump is doing as well as anyone could.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2020
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  42. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Duncan,

    POTUS and the White House folks - Pence, Sec HHS, a few others - are doing the best public information presentations as can be. Just about every statement is focus-group tested, advance-polled and followed-up on. The indicators of the public presentations show "AOK", eg: no riots, no unanticipated financial market dangers, no mass medical contingencies (eg large runs to hospitals, related).

    The testing is a minor aspect. The US does not have the large enough health care staff nor the equipment nor the physical plant facilities for national testing. National emergency programs cannot even handle area evacuations, public sheltering or basic influenza immunization "drive by" programs.

    The shortage of N 95 masks, gloves, the rest of the medical PPE can be found in the payrolls of Harvard, Johns Hopkins, Columbia - running out of cyber space.

    Trump has different distinct targeted audiences than, eg, Pence. The BIG travel restriction POTUS speech clearly said the UK was not part of the European travel zone restrictions. This is as important a national matter as can be from the White House / overall US Government perspective.

    Madam Prag and I are in a similar situation / circumstances to Dawn and you. "The Government" has not changed since 1776. Again, so far no riots, run on banks, run on hospitals, the checks are flowing AND this isn't occurring in a vacuum: no terrorism here, no mass violent criminal activity, the foreign relations of the US is stable, ...

    As bleak as all of this is or can be written up to be, does have some good news. On some date on the calendar, whether in weeks or a couple of months from now, this COVID-19 will naturally fade away. Of course, the future is really unknown but if it doesn't naturally fade away, with the Atlantic seaboard's June hurricane season, we can anticipate some road closings from flooding, .......
     
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  43. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Let's say the USA has an infinite number of test kits.

    You're a physician, an intensivist, and have patients with the flu. Some have the regular flu (fill-in-the-blank). Some have Covid-19. All you can do is keep a closer eye on the C19 folk. Yes, testing could help a tad in that respect. You could do your best to provide greater isolation to the C19-positives (good luck with that).

    The Chinese treated their severe cases with a medication regimen toxic sufficient to possibly injuring pulmonary tissues. If the C19 came back on these patients with compromised lungs, a large percentage of them simply died, then-and-there, bye-bye.

    If somebody is developing SARS (severe acute respiratory syndrome), then there exists a protocol for SARS where you practice ... irrespective of the pathogen of origin. Gonna NOT be reactive to the non-Covid-19 crew?! Thousands and thousands are dying during this flu season anyway. Here in America, something like 600 young people die by bicycle each year. Hundreds of children are killed by aspirating hotdog chunks each year.

    The pointing of fingers due to this current nasty viral invader is mainly motivated by politics. The propaganda is already working on the sheeple.

    Just today overheard a conversation where some lady wasn't able to find toilet paper (likely the family's favorite brand), so she was going to drive over 100 miles round-trip to buy extra for her daughter living in another town. OK, so this is, in my lowly estimation, totally bat-sh## crazy behavior.

    If you have the money, provisions, vacation/sick time, call your employer and develop some arrangement in which you can work from home or have at work extra precautionary protective devices such as disposable gloves. Some think masks help -- me, I'm not so convinced of that.

    Don't panic.

    Keep your hands away from your eyes and your fingers out of your nose. This is for ALL TIMES, flu or no flu. When you wash your hands, you have only washed away some percentage of germs and viruses. Oh, dispose of disposable gloves.
    .
     
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  44. F22 Simpilot

    F22 Simpilot Master Survivalist
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    The government hasn't been telling the truth since Carpenter's Hall!

    It's patriotic not to trust your government.
     
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  45. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning F22,

    It's a fair enough statement re trust.

    I'd like to go a major step further in this problem.

    For background, I'm from the overseas oil industry and had the opportunity to work in the political department of a US oil company based in Washington, D.C.

    Over time many Members of Congress to include a couple of Senators were at office. Occasionally when all having coffee, I'd hear a recurring theme from them. This was that the average citizen does not participate in government. The power house positions like Congress, the courts, the agency senior folks was not being discussed. These positions are reserved for the political class and tokens.

    They were talking about local positions, both employee and volunteer, like animal shelters and fire and rescue squads. When the USG again expanded, the new law enforcement officers for animal control came from volunteers and many were socialists. I saw this in emergency management and how the encroachment started. Civil Defense was transitioned into a jobs program for the unemployable and socialists who just liked the bigger paychecks and large benefits package.

    Don't know what will happen but after November, it will happen.

    Preppers might rise to the top of the pile because of the socialists' failed programs.
     
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  46. Duncan

    Duncan Master Survivalist
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    Good morning colleagues! I enjoy your responses to my posts and this thread in general. I really can't disagree with anything you say; it makes pretty good sense. I do hope Captain Trips does go away soon and doesn't become another 1919; we do have better medicines and medical skills than we did a century ago, so there's always that.*

    What I am concerned about is not so much the absence of tests or even the disease itself but the fact that we can't seem to get a straight answer from anyone. Admittedly most of the information on the interned is pure crapola, but if crapola is all the American people see, people are going to buy into it.

    As a (kind of tragicomic) aside, I couldn't help but pick out a couple of interesting comments from Messrs. Pragmatist ("Just about every statement is focus-group tested, advance-polled and...") and Geezer ("...propaganda is already working on the sheeple.")

    "Foreign virus": if that's not red meat to the President's base...!

    * By the way, to you more "seasoned veterans/wise sages", i.e., people my age: Both my mother (b. 1911 2nd of 11 kids) and my father (b.1906, 1st of nine) lost a sibling during the 1919 pandemic. I'm willing to bet that I'm not the only one on this forum who has lost someone from that generation.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2020
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  47. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    At least one hospital in north Arkansas has been overwhelmed . The doors have been locked except the emergency entrance . There someone in a hazmat suit is waiting to test anyone wanting to enter . If they have any fever or show any sign of the Corona Virus they are turned away and told to go home and call a phone number they are given . So they are basically telling them good luck and I hope you survive . That will help keep the governments Corona Virus figures low .That phone number they are given is a hot line number to my daughter . Ironic that , that number goes to my daughter who is working the hot line sitting at home at our survival retreat . She is also sent callers from all the major colleges and universities in the U.S. Like Berkley in California . Nearly all her calls at this point is about the Corona virus . That hospital shut down thing will soon be everywhere .
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2020
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  48. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Delta between USA and England & Canada:

    My wife was in the hospital getting reconstruction surgery after having had surgery for breast cancer. Her nurse had just moved to the USA from England. While discussing treatments, the British nurse said, "In England, we are more accepting of death."

    Business trip in Ontario, just north of Toronto, I was talking to fellow technical folk after work, we were at supper. We were on topic of medical equipment, specifically CAT scan equipment. I had mentioned that I had lived in an area where there were three towns each having around fifty thousand citizens. In each town the hospitals all had CAT scan and MRI machines of their own. The Canadians were amazed, they said that their socialized medicine division of government was willing to help their area (much more populous than where I had lived) in the purchase of the one CAT scan machine they had. In buying it, they had had to have telethons to come up with the rest of the money to buy it. The government had approved of only one machine.

    A physician from Ukraine told me that she would leave the practice of medicine here in America were we to go with socialized medicine.

    Death panels in England have been around for more than a little while:

    https://www.thenewamerican.com/worl...care-“death-panels”-alive-and-well-in-britain

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/sallyp...-medicare-for-all-is-collapsing/#589f8e2636b8

    https://paualready.wordpress.com/2019/04/08/a-lesson-in-socialism-from-none-other-that-mick-jagger/

    Members of my family who have been without healthcare have received treatment and thus ran up bills to exceed one million dollars. They received treatment in for-profit hospitals. Payment plans were set-up to match their home budgets. However, in the end, the hospitals simply ate the costs. I personally know physicians to spend numerous weeks per year doing pro-bono work. The reason they can do this is due to their high incomes.

    The American medical industry could save billions/trillions of dollars were insane government regulations backed down to sanity levels. European pharmaceuticals and hospitals have strict standards, yet they do not have the mountains of regulations we do here in the USA. Also in the USA, we have to fight armies of these spiritually-dead attorneys who are always seeking $20 million-dollar payouts from hospitals.

    The sheeple who grovel at the feet of Big Brother deny these realities.
    .
     
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  49. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    All Democrats wish to turn the Constitution into latex and stretch it to fit the European paradigm. Conservatives and Libertarians did NOT vote for Trump, we voted against Big Brother. "Whoever protects you, owns you." Do women these days wish to marry a man who will protect them? No, they wish to be independent. Women know that men who wish to "protect" are, in reality, the rapists. Democrats wish to "protect" black people just like back when their chains were made of iron. Today's Democrat slave chains are made of government checks.

    The Democrats want everyone to have a Big Brother needle in their arm. LBJ's Great Society proved to be a dynamite way to keep their boot on the necks of African Americans. Almost 80% of black families are without a father in the home. Gosh, I wonder why poverty is so prevalent in such neighborhoods?!

    The slimiest anti-God army the Left has at its disposal is the hellish legion of college professors. Most universities have out a welcome sign for the Anti-Christ (and me, I'm not a member of the Christian religion and I can clearly see this).

    "If you're not a liberal when you're 20, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative when you're 40, you have no head." ~Winston Churchill
     
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  50. Joe Stonecipher

    Joe Stonecipher Expert Member
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    One thing for sure - if you stock up on enough toilet paper and bottled water, you’ll be OK! Toilet paper? Bottled water? Where are the sheeple getting this idiot idea from?
     
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