To Rebuild Or Not To Rebuild,..that Is The Question

Discussion in 'News, Current Events, and Politics' started by Pragmatist, Jan 23, 2020.

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  1. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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  2. Snyper

    Snyper Master Survivalist
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    It's not always just "emotional".

    My deed is for a specific location on the planet.

    If I can't rebuild here, I have to convince someone to buy it or take a huge monetary loss.

    It's relatively easy to control the chances of fire damage.

    Flooding is harder to control, but deeds are still site specific, and totally without emotion.
     
  3. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good afternoon Snyper,

    Maybe Allison of article had a strong emotional attachment to his extra cash in bank.

    The article mentioned the new planning and building rules.

    If Allison doesn't have a cash fortune in the bank, relocating from the ocean view area could serve as a housing solution.
     
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  4. Snyper

    Snyper Master Survivalist
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    The ocean view wasn't the problem.
    A firebreak would be a solution that allows rebuilding.

    Most people have insurance to cover the costs.
    Maybe Australia is different, but I doubt it.

    That's not too extravagant.
    It's also worth noting the article is in an insurance industry publication, so they are a little biased. ;)
     
  5. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I have a question about the fires that have been so awful in Australia. Are these fires like the ones in California that are at least in part poor land management by the government not allowing or doing controlled burns to keep the underbrush under control. It has been said over and over here that it is caused by global warming but that just makes it dry. Some of the things that I have read seem to indicate that while things are dry that a lot of the fires are arson. Is this something that is a result of some sort of unhappy civil problem? Why in the world would 183 people, even kids, intentionally start brush fires?

    https://thecount.com/2020/01/06/australia-fires-arson-deliberately-set/
     
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  6. Justin Baker

    Justin Baker Expert Member
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    @Blitz - you okay over there?
     
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  7. Purple Gumboots

    Purple Gumboots Member
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    I can't speak to the situation in Australia, here in South Africa the majority of our forest fires are caused by locals with an axe to grind.
    We run our own business and our biggest clients are in the forestry industry. 2019 was a particularly difficult year for quite a few of them for 2 reasons.
    1. The locals like to burn things, even if the things they burn have nothing to do with their dispute and they can't seem to comprehend that their actions invariable impact the communities income
    2. The weather patterns here have shifted considerably, the feedback we are getting from the industry is that by law they have to burn their breaks at certain times of the year, however "fire season" for the last few years has been delayed by up to 6 weeks, which means that the fire breaks are no longer useful.
     
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  8. F22 Simpilot

    F22 Simpilot Master Survivalist
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    I say rebuild and do the prescribed fires like they have been doing since I don't know when until the damn dirt bag greenys got in there and said you couldn't.


    This is California x2, folks. Same shit, different pile. Only this one is waaaay more massive.
     
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  9. Snyper

    Snyper Master Survivalist
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    I've heard some people there say it's actually a fairly normal year for fires, and they don't understand why it's getting all the media coverage, aside from the "global warming" spin that's so popular lately.
     
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  10. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Snyper,

    Here, the word "resiliency" enters the stage.

    A fireb and the best windows and needed for ALL area residences.

    Polluted air could cause the retired teacher to experience respiratory failure.

    Helicopter and naval vessel rescues are expensive and sometimes dangerous for evacuations.

    Insurance might not cover all costs.

    Are there any publications that are not biased ?
     
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  11. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning TexDanm,

    I've been following both the California and Aussie fires and the reports show similarity.

    The Aussie victims of the fires have complained about the inadequate fire service support, amongst other complaints.

    Why in Hades did California firefighters need to travel to Australia to fight fires ? No Canberra arrangements in place to augment the pre-existing fire service ? Of course there wasn't.

    Arson is a crime and sometimes also a psychological illness.
     
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  12. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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    I suspect the dryness in Australia and the planet earth changing its polar locations has a connection . Australia may be on its way to becoming an dryer desert like location on the planet while another location is becoming wetter . Southern states in the U.S. have been receiving an astonishing amount of rain over the last decade . I am too lazy to investigate this theory but really shouldn't be hard to investigate . Before rebuilding that burned out home in Australia I think I would want to look into this .
     
  13. Blitz

    Blitz Master Survivalist
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    Even a fire break doesn't necessarily stop the fires here. There were instances were the fire still reached homes despite firebreaks. The embers can travel 30kms depending on the wind. That is an extreme case, but it has happened. Ember attack is one of the main causes of homes catching fire during a bushfire.

    There were instances of winds of up to 90kms which had a horrific effect (most probably an exaggeration, as the news tend to do that. However, even if you accounted for the exaggeration and were looking at say, 50-70kms, that's still a massive speed to affect a bushfire). Some landowners thought they were perfectly safe as the fires were a fair way in the distance. Within a short period of time, they were engulfed.

    Regarding insurance, in a rural community, a lot of people don't have insurance, because they can't afford it (it is incredibly expensive).

    In my area which was hit by bushfires with houses lost, the majority of locals didn't have insurance. The other problem apart from the prohibiting cost, is a lot of people build in rural communities on remote land in the bush without Council (Government) approval. So even if you did take out insurance for those properties, the insurance company wouldn't pay out in the aftermath of a fire should the property be destroyed, as they have to be "legal dwellings". In other words, if they aren't Council approved, the insurance companies won't pay out.

    In NSW and Tasmania, around 50% of insurance that you pay, goes directly to the Government. After these bushfires, the insurance will be even higher due to premiums from the insurance companies increasing.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7843655/Why-people-not-insured-bushfire-season.html

    "When stamp duty and GST are added, NSW residents pay 45 to 50 per cent tax on their insurance."
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
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  14. Blitz

    Blitz Master Survivalist
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    You may find this video interesting:



    In answer to poor land management by the Government. Yes.

    Just before the fires broke out here (a week, to be precise) I did a lot of 4WD exploring in the fire trails around my home. The majority of them were totally inaccessible because they hadn't been maintained.

    Many years ago, there weren't many areas that you couldn't go 4WD'ing in. Throughout the subsequent years, a large portion of land has been "closed off". This basically means large areas are now deemed "wilderness" which means it is illegal to go into these areas, unless by foot. Yes, I know. Absolutely insane.

    Having watched the progress of the fires in my state, I was bemused to see that a lot of the fires were in areas that I used to go 4WD'ing in, but which are now closed.
     
  15. Blitz

    Blitz Master Survivalist
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    Hey Justin. Yes, I'm fine. Just been busy so haven't had much time to get on site. Thanks for your concern. :)
     
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  16. Blitz

    Blitz Master Survivalist
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    Yep ...
     
  17. Blitz

    Blitz Master Survivalist
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    Some of the fires here are also caused by clueless land owners who try to clear land by burning in the prescribed "no burn" period. Only problem is, they end up with a fire that is then uncontrollable, because they started burning in hot, dry, windy conditions and didn't know what they were doing. One of the main reasons they extend the "no burn" period and why it is so hard to get a fire permit. As usual, the minority spoil it for the majority.
     
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  18. Blitz

    Blitz Master Survivalist
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    I don't know where you heard that from. However, it's certainly not a normal year for fires. I know a number of fire fighters, and they haven't experienced fighting fires on this level.
     
  19. Blitz

    Blitz Master Survivalist
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    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-cutting-trees-supports-hazard-reduction.html

    "While the Sheahans made it out of Black Saturday alive and with their house still standing, even with their preparations it was a close call.

    Throughout the night of February 9 their home caught fire eight times. They also lost several sheds, a Range Rover and two Subarus, as well as a truck and trailer to ember attacks.

    'I was in the Country Fire Authority, and so were my son and daughter, so we'd fought fires before and we thought we knew the risks, we thought we were well prepared if a fire came through,' Mr Sheahan said.

    'But we found out that day that we were barely adequately prepared."

    Most of you have probably already seen these clips, but for those who haven't, it gives an idea of the scope and impact of the bushfires here this season:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...res-limit-supplies-food-water-fuel-towns.html



    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12...fighters-sprint-from-flames-captured/11773128
     
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  20. Snyper

    Snyper Master Survivalist
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    From people there.
    That's what I said:

    What they have experienced doesn't change what I was told.
     
  21. Snyper

    Snyper Master Survivalist
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    Nothing in life is 100%.

    They need to rethink their priorities.
     
  22. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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    Impressive video blitz .My take away as a retired professional woodland fire fighter . The video was made at night when it would be most likely for the humidity to pick up and the wind to calm . On the video obviously the humidity is still high and the wind is pushing the flames rapidly . A lot of air borne embers on the film . I will admit I have never fought a fire that ferocious .
     
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  23. Blitz

    Blitz Master Survivalist
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    I'm not suggesting it does. I'm giving information from on the ground fire fighters. Hence, I disagree with whomever stated "it's actually a fairly normal year for fire". I can assure you, it is not. Hence, the veracity of your source is questionable in my opinion.
     
  24. Blitz

    Blitz Master Survivalist
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    The video was actually taken during the day. The fires are so ferocious that the sky turns black, then a bright red colour. It's an incredibly eerie sight. It's even more frightening in the bush where we are, because we could hear all the trees crashing to the ground just over the ridge. Very scary. It took all one's courage not to desert and high tail it off the property. Everything gets incredibly dark, and the noise is horrible. It certainly tests your meddle, I can assure you. As a family, everyone has to be on the same page and have a plan. It becomes difficult if one family member bottles out, so to speak. So you have to be prepared for plan (a), (b), (c) and (d).

    You are correct about the wind. It night, the fires calm down somewhat (unless it's a firestorm). During the day, they become more ferocious.

    Where I am, we had to take turns watching for embers during the night, as there was a lot of burnt tree bark, ash and leaves blowing onto the property. A friend up the road had a lot of spot fires on his property from embers where he hadn't cleared.

    Night was a lot easier to cope with that the day. During the night and early morning the cool air collects close to the ground (called temperature inversion), meaning the wind is above the air at the bottom. When the sun heats up the air and the inversion dissapates, the wind is able to take hold and the fire activity increases substantially. Hope that makes sense. Also, the humidity where I am is generally extremely high, so all the vegetation has a relatively high content of water (compared to other parts where the bushfires are). The last few days for example, the temperature has been around 33, with humidity at around 87%. Working outdoors is a nightmare, as the sweat literally pours out of your body, hahahaha!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-2pm-thousands-remain-evacuation-centres.html
     
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  25. Snyper

    Snyper Master Survivalist
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    They live there.
    That's all I really know about them or you.
    The media is saying arson is the cause of many of the fires.
     
  26. Blitz

    Blitz Master Survivalist
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    Your vote of confidence is astounding.

    My information comes from fire fighters on the ground. I've also read numerous articles on the subject, for example:

    https://www.theguardian.com/austral...-factcheck-are-this-years-fires-unprecedented

    Having lived here for a considerable amount of time, and talking to locals who have been in the area since the 1970's, it is my opinion that these fires are the worst Australia have been confronted with, given the amount of damage, the early fire season and the pure ferocity of the fires.

    I have no idea where your sources get their information from. Sounds to me like typical city dwellers who live in a fantasy world in my opinion. Either that, or they're the media.

    Yes, the majority of fires have started from arson.

    http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-01/07/c_138684643.htm

    Lightning strikes are another major cause. We had one set of fires here which we thought were done and dusted (confirmed to have been started by lightning strikes), only to be confronted with worse fires a week later due to lightning strikes. The rest of the fires have basically started from spot fires and spread from there.

    However, one of the major fires was a result of backburning gone wrong. You would be surprised as to how often that occurs.
     
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  27. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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  28. Snyper

    Snyper Master Survivalist
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    I didn't "vote" on anything.
    I merely stated some simple facts.
    Don't search for hidden meanings.

    Exactly, so any speculation about them would be pointless.

    That's what I said.
    Arson was the cause of many of the fires.

    Not really since lots of fires get started that way worldwide.
    There's very little about human behavior that surprises me anymore.
     
  29. Blitz

    Blitz Master Survivalist
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    You and me both.
     
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