Usa Potentates???

Discussion in 'News, Current Events, and Politics' started by Dalewick, Jul 6, 2020.

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  1. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    I have been asking questions on this for a while and have been researching on line without any results, so maybe someone here has an answer. I'm retired now, but I did work as a federal park ranger for a decade so I'm not new to legal questions.

    My question is, under what law(s) are all of these politicians making "decrees" and "mandates" and telling LEO's to enforce them. In the USA it has always been that we, as a republic, are a nation of laws. Last I checked, mayors, governors and even the President do not have the authority to "Make law". What law(s) are on the books that says politicians can mandate how we dress (medical mask) and where we can go.

    Seems like COVID-19 is more of a social conditioning tool than it is an actual pandemic. If COVID-19 is as contagious as our politicians and news media would have us believe, why have there not been great increases in COVID in all the areas where rioting and looting occurred?

    Dale

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  2. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    bump
     
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  3. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Dale,

    In reply; my opinion to your question:

    It was gradual so "bench marks" are best used to see the picture.

    The decrees / mandates / legal requirement started prior to FDR - perhaps with the Pure Food and Drug Act of 1906 (?) - but I use the 1973 Roe Wade abortion legislation as the 20th century benchmark.

    FDR introduced the Administrative Procedures Act (APA) with their Administrative Law judges in the executive branch agencies. Think of a VA denial procedure. Write up an "appeal" and if the vet's appeal not accepted, there is a hearing. This hearing is de facto a judicial matter external to the judiciary.

    Judicial bodies, like the Supremes, were ALLOWED to enter the political arena. Elected official love it because they are not accountable to the voters for the decrees of the courts even if the decrees are political matters. Think of yesterday's closing of the Appalachian pipeline plans. Blame it on the non-accountable to the electorate courts.

    Think of EPA, EEOC, so many others..........

    All this is political matters delivered via non-accountable de facto legislative bodies.

    ......

    I completely agree that COVID 19 is more so a vehicle to make political changes otherwise not going to happen in a checkmated "system". COVID-19 has little to do with public health. Otherwise, for example, the polls showing that ~ 25% of the public would not get a COVID-19 immunization if/when available, would be in prison work camps.

    The pandemic in the US has already reduced excess capacity in the airline industry, the hotel industry, ... The public schools will get budget reform via social distancing. Band practice and the concussion game - a/k/a football, will go away along with the big parking lots at the schools. The challenge is no longer public sector labor blocs that JFK created but now China, the SCO and Asian trade alliances fatiguing the US economy. Forget continental Europe; it's already defeated.

    ......

    All the above, if written clearer and more thoroughly, would explain why Trump is HATED in the Old Guard enclaves like NYC, Boston, SFO, LA, ...
     
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  4. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    Do we have any members here who are attorneys? Dalewick, I think that is the only way you will get an accurate answer. Everything I have read says "NO" a Governor cannot impose an Executive Order as law, but it sure seems to be happening all over the country. Maybe it will take a little more time for the courts to sort all of this out. It seems like the cases pending with all of the businesses being shut down are legion. Until we get a definitive ruling I don't think we will know. An attorney could quote us chapter and verse, although the law will vary from state to state. What can be done in an emergency, and for how long a period of time just muddies the water even more.
     
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    1. Dalewick
      Thanks Morgan! The US Assistant DA I knew moved and went to private practice or I would have asked her. I think were getting jerked around with this BS.

      Dale
       
      Dalewick, Jul 7, 2020
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  5. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good afternoon Morgan,

    Attorneys cannot give accurate answers to this question. How would they know ?

    Lisa Page is an attorney, was in Federal practice, with FBI. She is under investigation for violating some laws. Former Virginia Governor Bob McDonnell was an attorney, Virginia Attorney General and then prisoner.

    Many business organizations don't even have staff attorneys anymore. They use financiers instead. Own a business and you'll see which works best.

    Executive orders, agency rulings, administrative law hearings (executive branch; not judiciary) determine much of our modern society.

    I worked in the political department of a US oil company on Capitol Hill, D.C. Yes, there were attorneys present. They were far from being the most important members of the team.

    It's all changed.
     
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  6. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    Pragmatist: I appreciate your input, but an attorney,especially one in the specific state, will know better than us jailhouse, think-we-know, lawyers. The State constitutions will enumerate the powers of the Executive Branch. Somebody, besides the Attorney General of the State, will know the law, and I would be reasonably certain the law will vary from State to State.

    Something as broad as Executive powers in a specific State would require some very specific knowledge of the State constitution and all its nuances. I don't think Lisa Page or Bob McDonnell were negligent of the law. I think they violated it knowingly with malice and forethought. I agree many companies don't have staff attorneys, but that is downsizing. They certainly have legal firms on retainer should they need and expert opinion, or advice on entering a gray area.

    I too have worked closely with attorneys, and realize they are not always the decision makers. We could swap some interesting war stories on decisions made against legal advice. In the end the Governors will do what they want. The law be damned. The court system will have to reign them in and determine the constitutionality of the Executive Order.
     
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  7. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    To me, it appears those in power are following an old adage ---- It is better to ask for forgiveness, than permission. They will decree edicts until they are told they can't. The lawsuits will march very slowly up the Judicial system food chain.
     
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  8. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Constitutionally, these mandates are mega-illegal. If an idiot were to go out in a real plague and get sick, odds of them getting medical attention would be rather poor.

    There is NOTHING in the U.S. Constitution that states that you will be protected if you are too stupid to live.

    The government can make and publish warnings to citizens should there be a horror about which the populace should to be warned. Were some plague devastating the nation that was mega-transferable / mega dangerous, one could make the case that a person wandering around without protection against their infecting others, that person could be considered a threat of aggression via a biologic agent. We would, under those circumstances, be in an actual war would we not, an actual medical war.

    We are talking very low death rates with what is going about now. In 1957, a China flue killed over 100,000 Americans. That flu killed kids. The U.S. population in 1957 (170,000,000) was a bit over half that of our 2020 population, so double one hundred thousand, making it 200,000 deaths relative to today's >300 million American population. Did America panic in 1957? No, they were out buying Elvis records.

    Today with the Chinavirus19, persons at risk should be identified and warned. If those people must stay home to avoid the virus, then it would be legal for a state or the National Congress to introduce legislation to protect the jobs of these individuals.

    Currently, the virus numbers are jumping up, however the death rate among those infected is going down.

    I myself am at particular risk of developing fatal symptoms were I to get this current virus. I have gotten a medical statement from my physician stating this reality. I have turned this form over to my employer. I will take extra precautions. Should my country shut down because of folk like me? I don't think so. I would ask that my medical situation be accommodated, that's fair. But to shut down my country's economy?! No no no!!!

    And listen, I'm NOT talking about my nation sacrificing certain populations. I'm talking about sanity. Don't treat everybody as if they were at risk of contracting some condition that will put them at risk for death. This is what is happening now because of panic propaganda regurgitated from the mentally ill Leftists.

    We now have a contagious disease plaguing our country that is being used as a tool of war against our U.S. economy by internal enemies who hold government positions of authority. If this is not sedition, what then pray tell is!
    .
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020
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