Vaccination Records

Discussion in 'Other Not Listed Situations' started by Pragmatist, Aug 15, 2019.

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  1. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/adults/vaccination-records.html#record-vacc

    Good morning all,

    Important ! If this link is not a first time here, I rely on the protection of "built-in redundancy" - because it's important.

    A scenario: You've evacuating to somewhere and some public service announcement tells of an area clinic providing some medicine eg for prevention of radiation sickness prevention.

    There will be a "triage" - a sorting of those in line. Those with vaccination records will fare real good in line at the clinic.

    Keep records of everything ! and carry them in waterproof pouches.

    Foot Note; Elsewhere, only indirectly related to this matter of medical records, I mentioned to keep documents of serial numbered (SN) property on your person when evacuating.
     
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  2. Schattentarn

    Schattentarn Active Member
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    No, those with up to date vaccination records will die shortly.
     
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  3. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Schattenrarn,

    You need to "flesh out" your comment so forum participants can understand your point. I don't.

    I've worked mass medical during disasters and have experience in this.
     
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  4. Radar

    Radar Expert Member
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    Why would vaccination records matter if you're being treated for possible radiation exposure?
     
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  5. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I thought the only medication for radiation poisoning was iodide tablets? that's what they give out if there is ever a radiation leak at a UK nuclear dockyard.
     
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  6. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Radar and Lone Wolf,

    A couple of reasons .......

    Some vaccination records allow medical screeners during the "triage" phase to determine if, for example, the person just had a Yellow Fever shot the week prior. This means the person's immune system is in a weakened state and might not be eligible for additional treatment that overloads the immune system.

    Some vaccination records, eg the CDC 731 pamphlet, contain additional health information already annotated by the patient. This indicates to the screener that the person deals with the health care. It's always good for the medical folkds to know the patient's blood type,Rh factor when processing through screening.

    Remember a medical clinic during a disaster is, er ... somewhat busy. Arrive prepared and the situation will be better for all.

    Lone Wolf; ... and if it's both possible radiation poisoning and also, for example, a visible infection from the patient walking through polluted water to this medical clinic - good medical personnel treat the whole person, the holistic approach. Again, a clinic during a disaster is "somewhat busy".

    Plus, those with visible medical records just might get to the front of the line.

    Personally speaking, during a hades SHTF event, even if exposed to radiation, I'd be asking the medics for some anti-itch ointment for my decrepit pods.

    "Amat victoria curam" "Victory loves careful preparation".
     
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  7. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    modern medicine DOES NOT treat the whole person, it only deals with the symptom not the disease. at least in the UK that is what happens, our national health system is overwhelmed at the best of times, never mind in a catastrophe or even SHTF.
    it took 6 weeks to get an appointment with our previous family doctor, shows you the state of the system.and hospitals aren't any better.
     
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  8. Radar

    Radar Expert Member
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    I don't really think most people keep their medical/vaccine records on hand, do they? I understand what you mean about lowered immunity from vaccines, you mean temporarily.
    It's good for most people to know their blood type.
    You're saying in a shtf situation, it is best to have your medical records (vaccine types & dates) if being evac'd and having to go to a clinic for radiation sickness prevention.
    In any shtf event, being evac'd, most people are not going to have records with them anyway. Some prepped people do have records in BOB bags.
    Lonewolf is experiencing what we have in the U.S. as well. Hard to be seen when you're sick. They write a quick prescription and send you out the door.
     
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  9. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good afternoon Lone Wolf and Radar,

    Completely true here on this side of the pond also. Health care is in a collapsed state.

    Now you know why I'm a proponent of getting to know some key area people in the medical emergency/disaster community.

    Radar; Of course most people do not even drink enough water on a daily basis for health.

    I'm not addressing "most people"; only serious preppers (adjective "serious" required with the loss of George Orwell).

    My BOB bag has my medical records.

    Yes, the lowered immunity from some shots eg Yellow Fever, Flu, is temporary.
     
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  10. duke in wales

    duke in wales Well-Known Member
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    Thankfully the UK health service (free) has not collapsed, LW, sorry mate but your talking nonsense, and modern medicine does treat the disease where its treatable, certainly better than chewing some plants and chanting to the earth god.

    Remember you only read about the 'horror' stories of our health service and not about the tens of thousands of people who receive great care in the UK.
     
  11. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good evening Duke in Wales,

    Just want to inject a horror story I was recently told ... not my reading about it ... .

    I present it not to argue a point from the specific to the general; only to mention there are horror stories. Small in population and land mass compared to the US but the UK is still BIG from the Shetland Islands to the Channel Islands.

    Somewhat near here is a large Air Force Base. Haven't been there in decades. I do go to several veterans' meetings. At one recent meeting, met a young airman from this AFB and his British wife. At vet meetings the main subject is usually health care. This young woman told of her negative experience at Royal London Hospital White Chapel, E. London.

    Besides her story, I vividly remember her example because many hospitals in Hong Kong still use British-themed names like Queen Elizabeth Hosp. These are memory aids to me - and I need memory aids.

    Her story told of her negative health care experience.

    Is it not possible / probable the horror stories of British health care also have a geographic component ? Live in the nice places and nice health care; the not-nice places and non-nice health care.

    Again, I'm just mentioning that we Yanks also hear the British health care stories besides reading material that could be biased.
     
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  12. duke in wales

    duke in wales Well-Known Member
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    You get can 'horror' stories at any hospital, these are far outweighed by the 'good' stories. The tabloid press talk of the 'post code lottery' in health care but logic says an inner city hospital will be swamped, the system often flooded with minor conditions that slow down the system of care...same as the USA and pretty much any country. I could give examples to back up my point but lets not get into a willy wanging contest, suffice to say I'm extremely proud of the universal healthcare the UK provides to all, something other countries should aspire too IMHO.
     
  13. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    your wearing your rose tinted glasses again Duke, everyone knows the NHS is creaking at the seams, many hospitals have gone into special measures because they cant cope, I know of at least 2 in the westcountry who this applies to, closing all the community hospitals dosent help, and the winter is even worse, they cant get enough nurses and newly qualified doctors only want to work in cities not in the remote countryside, our previous health centre couldn't cope because they couldn't get the staff and our own doctor was off for years with stress and finally retired because of it. so everything is not rosy, and it is well know that modern medicine only treats the symptom not the cause, they fob you off with a prescription and a 10 minute appointment, despite what you personally think.
     
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  14. duke in wales

    duke in wales Well-Known Member
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    Sorry LW, your talking BS. Yes, hospitals and staff are stretched and stressed but we still do a remarkable job. I live with the NHS everyday, my wife is a (very) Senior Nurse so I'm perhaps more aware of issues than someone like you, no offence.

    Again the phrase 'only treats the symptom and not the cause' is nonsense, symptoms are treated and more often than not offer a cure to your illness, you've not heard of the Holistic approach to care/nursing which is becoming more and more popular in the NHS and the USA? Fobbed off with a prescription despite what you personally think? So you know more than someone who has taken many years to train in the role of doctor?

    No, its not all rosy in the NHS OR the private sector, you want horror stories then look at some of the major cocks ups that occur in the private sector.
     
  15. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    holistic may be happening in the US but I have not seen it in the UK, the opposite in fact.
    yes, good work is done in the NHS every day, but that dosent stop it from being stretched to its limits, how far does an elastic band stretch before it snaps?
    wife's relative works in Hampshire NHS so we too are aware what occurs.
    modern medicine does not treat the whole person, it only treats the problem not the cause, if I have a headache the doctor gives me a painkiller, he hasn't got the time or the inclination to find out why my head hurts.
     
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  16. duke in wales

    duke in wales Well-Known Member
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    Its happening in the UK NOW, my wife is heavily involved in it.

    Medication treats the condition, the cause may be identified, sometimes not. So you have a headache, would you like your GP to send you off for a scan? How about a referral to a therapist to look at why you may have a stress triggered pain in the head?

    Stand up straight and take some pride in your country and what it offers its citizens instead of coming across as just another moaning, groaning doom merchant.
     
  17. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    your in the wrong place Duke, your coming over as a sheeple not a prepper.
     
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  18. Schattentarn

    Schattentarn Active Member
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    So when the "mass" was irradiated, please tell us exactly what you did.

    The please tell me why anyone would dare ask me for vaccination records in that situation.

    My comment means over vaccination harms people and pets. It also means anyone asking for my vaccination records is clearly on the "other side" of whatever situation I am facing.

    It also means that very question is posed so that I cannot answer it and allowing the asking person to say "ok, well, I cannot help you then."

    In other words the premise of this whole thread is a bit crazy.
     
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  19. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Schattentern,

    In mass medical emergencies, I worked the emergency management portfolio with some security matters, especially "situational awareness". Never had an actual order for a radiation emergency.... but I / we are prepared.

    I did not say - I hope - nor mean that records would be asked for. I cannot get into specifics or anything more to clarify on the web.

    In a declared emergency neither you nor any other private citizen will determine what constitutes "over vaccination" to people or pets. Public health directors now have law-enforcement authority. It is now more sophisticated than prior.

    I just spent 10 hours yesterday, Saturday, at an eastern Virginia seminar on emergency veterinary matters in re pets - - - and also livestock - - - and also wildlife. Am returning again today, Sunday for the final 10 hours. The only "other side" is the US Government and its political subdivisions; the States.

    You must understand and participate in advanced-level prepping to grasp what's going on with the National Response to disasters such as radiation matters. Advance-level matters will not occur on the web in an air-conditioned room. An in-person "club" / org. of some sore is required.

    Again, I am in the middle of a 2 day working seminar involving US Government doctrine tailored to the individual states addressing biological matters. It is a BIG subject regardless of the public's knowledge.

    It is not crazy.

    The party's over.
     
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  20. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Duke in Wales,

    Re: "Doom Merchants" ; "horror stories";

    I try to give the most favorable interpretation to posts that I can. I understand the point you're making to Lone Wolf ... and indirectly to me. There's some merit to it.

    Yet, ....... the 2 terms you used that I quote above relate to basic statements you've made that others know are not correct.

    On this topic you had written a Brit can get medical care at the EU members' facilities. I have only 1 example that says otherwise. It's not the definitive matter but only questions your theme.

    A Brit was in Slovakia with dental pain and sought care prior to a flight. The DDS care was not available. I paid the bill for private care from my company's account.

    I have a hunch that Royal London Hospital in White Chapel is not an isolated example.

    Having been a volunteer with the US Department of Veterans Affairs ..... operating the largest hospital system in the world ...... I've got a basic background as to what must be looked for in re health care delivery.

    There's more to all this than you're presenting - at least from my view.
     
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  21. duke in wales

    duke in wales Well-Known Member
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    There you go, cherry picking again. https://www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/he...r-a-free-ehic-european-health-insurance-card/
    I would say that if your travelling in the more 'minor' countries of the EU you take travel insurance, it costs pennies and I'm extremely surprised you allowed an employee to travel without it.

    Please don't compare your health system to ours, for the average citizen your still in the stone ages, and shame on America for treating its people this way.
     
  22. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    the British NHS is " free at the point of need" which is not what I think the American system is, at least we don't have to pay to be ill.
    trouble is anyone who comes here gets free treatment too, I see the government even wants to stop charging "health tourists" now.
     
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  23. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Duke in Wales,

    Agree with your last paragraph; you observations are accurate from your vantage point.

    Nothing accomplished on the web ... especially involving "cherry-picking" matters. My Brit citizen example was kept vague on purpose.

    Meanwhile, still learning about dental care in the UK. We here already know about the rest of the EU.
     
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  24. duke in wales

    duke in wales Well-Known Member
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    Now dental care is the achilles heal of the NHS, just not enough dentists and more and more are going private. Got a bad tooth? That will soon be pulled, dentures are available from the NHS but there is a charge of over £100 but...out of work/low income families may get that cost covered.

    I paid for laser eye treatment, outstanding results from it. That said I do have a soft spot for high quality clothing whether for social wear or out doors and this includes spectacle frames. I've had Transition lenses fitted to a couple of Rayban frames, classic Wayfarers and Aviator :cool:

    The rest of the EU? Some countries provide outstanding care and facilities, the majority is free, some heavily subsidized, Scandinavia, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Holland, Belgium and even Greece are very good at looking after their people so please don't base your opinion of EU care on a single incident.
     
  25. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    find a reasonable British NHS dentist and stick with them, go regularly say every 6 months, if you don't you'll get struck off. its not wonderful treatment, but its basic, you'll get your fillings done and teeth pulled if necessary, nothing glamorous, if you want more you'll have to go private.
    wife had to pay for her dentures as her NHS dentures kept breaking, i'm not bothered, I just "mumble on my gums".
     
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  26. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Duke in Wales,

    Most assuredly I don't base my opinions on single examples. Actually, was only responding to your mention of Brit access to health care in the EU. The EU is a collective proper noun. An analogy would be that Iceland is a NATO member.

    I must inject: "Nothing vast enters the human mind without a curse." Socrates

    Even if heavily subsidized, health care can still be no-cost to the patient. For a couple of decade (long since ended) the US Veterans Health Service gave no cost care to "selected" (Not "qualified" [The gallows humor stories are numerous]) injured veterans.

    My overall point was that the UK and the rest of the EU ... includes the minor EU members - and also the US - mirrors older times with health care access being a function of wealth. Not too much is new under the Sun less the media and school system flavoring to reality.

    When the EU gets a Defense budget, many of my points will get clarified.

    I also like high quality clothing. My wardrobe encompasses the entire arena I operate in. This includes my emergency responder role, my prepper role for personal survival eg an evacuation out of the danger zone and just going to meetings. My focus is on best quality socks and high quality boots. Next comes shirts, jackets and pants - some are "industry-specific" eg my ultra cold weather anti high vibration work gloves for the chilly areas. I also have some premier ties ranging from regimental stripe to paisley to Secretary of Defense Casper Weinberger's (a pardoned felon) mini white pokadots on a maroon background. Still have many yellow ties. About 40 years ago, the Wall Street Journal ran a Monday AM page one column about "studies" showing that arrogant people drove yellow cars and wore more yellow garments than most. The next week, a huge segment of the nation was wearing yellow. Samples of conversation: "Are you going to brief the Assistant VP for Executive Compensation this morning?", "Oh, you're going to speak before the 'Americans Living Abroad' meeting ?"

    Regardless of time of day or night, I can walk into Walmart Fredericksburg, Virginia or Watson's Hong Kond and will be the best-dressed. Of course, it's not my clothing but the comparison with the shoppers at Walmart Fredericksburg and Watsons HK.

    A quote published in the now closed FAR EASTERN ECONOMIC REVIEW from decades ago:

    "In your town, your reputation counts, in another your clothes do." Talmud

    ...

    Yesterday, at an eastern Virginia specialized responder 2 day seminar, the "seniors" wore rigger belts.

    Transmitting from the former Lord Fairfax colony.
     
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  27. duke in wales

    duke in wales Well-Known Member
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    I wondered when the NATO defense budget would come along LOL

    Shirts come from Dedge & Skinner, not cheap but last a lifetime (they also make formal military uniforms)
    Shoes has to be from Church's again they will last a lifetime.

    Outdoor clobber? British Army lightweights for two or three seasons £10 a pair through to sleeping bags from Mountain Equipment, I buy what I want for the job in hand. I've got a Wiggy's extreme cold weather bag I've not tried yet :( but will this winter in Norway.

    Cheap does not always mean bad, you just have to pick and choose carefully.
     
  28. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good afternoon Duke in Wales,

    Money is fungible. The military contractors established the doctrine that defense matters are a "constant". Health care is a "variable". When the budgets are worked out, guess why EADS ' AirBus planes will have many military sales. Don't guess why health care will continue to be rationed.

    I've seen those D & S shirts. Yes: A+.

    My shoes are now exclusively boots. Usually this mean Matterhorn brand from Pennsylvania. Walmart merchandise used for yard work here at my BOP.

    Agree that price does not correlate with quality. All this takes is shopping, research, discussing is part of research, ...
     
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  29. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    For all the people living with Socialized medicine --- There is no such thing as Free from any government. Somebody is paying for it. Next question---Why should you not be responsible for your medical bills? Why should your medical treatment be paid for by other people? What make you think you have the right to anything free? Lame liberal thinking.
     
  30. Schattentarn

    Schattentarn Active Member
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    I am really unclear on your point. Just exactly what do vaccination records have to do with treating radiation exposure?
     
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  31. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Schattentern,

    Just 1 example ......

    All Hades breaking out and someone is evacuating to safety. The week prior this person had eg a Yellow Fever shot. The basic rule is the immune system is weakened for 30 days. This person is tired and arrives at an emergency shelter with a medic clinic. The authorities MIGHT be planning to administer a pharma by injection. The tired person, all stressed out (but safe; person is a prepper) is tired and not perfectly coherent at shelter. The medic folks might see the person's immunization record in ZipLoc pouch and realize person not eligible for any additional pharma that weakens one's immune system.

    The web will never replace in-person meetings to go over this stuff. Still, I hope above explains a point about medical records.
     
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  32. Schattentarn

    Schattentarn Active Member
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    Returning to radiation, these are all that I am aware of in terms of radiation treatment.

    https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/radiation-sickness/diagnosis-treatment/drc-20377061

    Which of these would change with vaccination records, present or absent?
     
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  33. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Schattentern,

    It's just not appropriate to develop this complex matter via the web.

    We had some real good advice by Forum Member Grizz to take an EMT course. I definitely endorse her advice.
     
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  34. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    sure we are paying for it, we pay something called "National Insurance" out of our pay all our working lives, this goes into general taxation which then goes to pay the NHS.
     
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  35. Schattentarn

    Schattentarn Active Member
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  36. Schattentarn

    Schattentarn Active Member
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    Pragmatist, You are obviously not in the medical industry and or have never looked into this topic. Radiation sickness is something for which there is almost no treatment and usually very little offered unless you are a child (iodine). Vaccination has absolutely nothing do do with this treatment. The idea of having to produce vaccination records after exposure to radiation is a joke. Each time I press you on this you bob and weave, trying to avoid a direct answer so I am done.
     
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