Venezuela - Surviving On The Edge

Discussion in 'Survival Stories' started by Yenix, Feb 25, 2019.

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  1. Yenix

    Yenix Well-Known Member
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    Hello everyone again. As I promised in my intro, I want to be useful here, so this is my first contribution.

    We all know the Bosnian story, so here, you can find the Bosnian style interview with an IT engineer about his surviving in today's Venezuela. In the situation, where all our skills and preps would come in very handy. It is scary to read, how quickly the situation can deteriorate to the barely-living conditions.

    Enjoy.

    http://smallandtall.online/world-in-conflict-venezuela-luis/
     
  2. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    @Yenix

    Very good post and extremely informative. All preppers should read this article. This is where we are headed once the liberals take over the government and they will take over. Too many people actually believe in the idea of a 'Free Lunch". Again, Yenix, thanks for the post.
     
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  3. Yenix

    Yenix Well-Known Member
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    I am currently working on a similar one from Ukraine, a little different environment. If you have some tips on what to ask, even to the guy from Venezuela (I am still in contact with him), I welcome any suggestions.
     
  4. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Wonder how they feel about giving up all their firearms now?

    Special note: I posted your link on a different forum. I stated it was from another forum and from a different member but I did not list your I.D. or this forums's name, as I did not have consent from either party. I did however state I felt it was worth them reading the article.
     
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  5. Yenix

    Yenix Well-Known Member
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    Oh, surely will be happy for reshares. Thank you!
     
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  6. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    That was a great article, thank you for capturing Luis' world for all to see. Your questions drew out a lot of critical information.

    May I suggest you secure your website with the https protocol (instead of only http), which might save you and your visitors some grief down the road. Especially due to the nature of your website (and the interviews) you may find yourself a target for not-so-random cyber attacks. Be safe, Yenix!

    Thank you for sharing with us.

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  7. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    Excellent , I truly appreciate this post , one takeaway ,the three things he said he would stockpile is exactly what I stockpiled ,hundreds of pounds of flour , endless supply of milk with my milk goat and a large supply of antibiotics
     
  8. Yenix

    Yenix Well-Known Member
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    Working on it already... And thank you.
     
  9. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    @Yenix

    I am looking forward to your Ukraine posts. Their situation is both government and invasion? Not sure what is what over there. Can't trust the medial for honest reporting.
     
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  10. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    We store cases of quart jars full of rice. Before sealing each jar, I place a oxygen-absorber pack on top of a piece of card paper atop the rice. We store bouillon cubes for flavoring.

    We do the same for dried beans, like pinto beans. Also noodles. All with the oxygen-absorber packs. Pinto beans you can boil up and throw in a few slices of streaked meat.

    I know for a fact that this stuff will keep you alive.

    When I was a boy, everybody had some fruit trees. I made pocket change picking the cherry trees. Up in the mountains we'd pick blueberries and in the valley, it was blackberries. When picking berries, always shake the branches with a tall walking stick to roust the copperheads and rattlesnakes. Birds like berries and snakes like birds. Your hand gets mistaken for a bird. Carry a light shotgun with which to decapitate the pit vipers.
     
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  11. IBME

    IBME "ALASKAN"
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    Well........I slogged through the interview. And while I am empathic to his situation, I never could accept his constant blaming the "Government" for his plight. I blame him and all the people like him. He is a classic typical American. And pretty much classic typical everyone under 50 y/o. They are to be blamed for putting their life in the condition it is. And yes.....it will be "EXACTLY" the same in America.

    There is a saying. "All peoples have exactly the government they deserve".

    I could say a lot more but I would only piss'off the members here, and make myself more frustrated.

    I'll add that he seems a kind'a old for a "Special Snowflake". But given he was raised during the wealthy oil fueled boom years and his father a doctor, he really still is a classic "Special Snowflake". And there are millions and millions of them in America.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2019
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  12. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    Centralize power and this is what you get.
     
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  13. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    Wonder what silver coins will bring you down there? Are they being used? Since the people are disarmed, one would be risking their safety by flashing gold ... but maybe silver is safer?

    I'm having no luck searching the web.

    The government is selling off the people's gold (Venezuelan treasury) to prop-up what is left of the bolivar.
    https://www.goldbroker.com/news/ven...s-central-bank-gold-united-arab-emirates-1478
     
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  14. Yenix

    Yenix Well-Known Member
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    It is difficult, as always in situations like this. It is more like a civil war now. It started after Crimean peninsula was rather calmly taken over by Russia, as a vast majority of the population there is historically Russian. And there is Doneck / Luhansk area with "some" population being Russian a hoping for the same as happened to Crimea. Usually, this is more than enough to cause problems. I was flying there regularly as an airline employee, and many people I know there told me that the Ukrainian government was shooting their own people to draw international attention and financial aid. So the truth lies somewhere in between, as usual.

    I remember in Doneck, they had a beautiful, absolutely new, airport. And after a few first days of fighting, only ruins remained. :(:(

    I was in our closing flight, as we understood the trouble is coming, so we went to pack all equipment with last scheduled flight from our office there and I remember that we were jumping to the plane on brakes at the beginning of the runway, already hearing artillery shots in not so far distance.

    I found the pics of Doneck before and after, if you are interested, look at this link:

    https://mashable.com/2015/01/27/in-pictures-war-reduces-eastern-ukraines-donetsk-airport-to-rubble/
     
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  15. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    A couple of questions I would ask Luis. Was anybody able to keep anything that they had stored? I had heard that the Government was confiscating goods that people had stored and was prosecuting them for hoarding. Is that true?

    It sounds like everything has gone to the black market now. Anything you have is something to barter. I know medical supplies are in horrible short supply, and some hospitals aren't even doing surgery. If you have anything of value how do you protect yourself from being robbed? If you did have gold or silver you might as well put a target on your back.
     
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  16. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    Yenix, we very much appreciate reports from your part of the world. Like TMT said, we can't trust the media to do their jobs. More often than not, boots on the ground carry more weight than biased journalism any day of the week!


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  17. IBME

    IBME "ALASKAN"
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    Plus One for what she said.
     
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  18. Yenix

    Yenix Well-Known Member
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    Well, as much as I tried to keep the interview apolitical, this guy is clearly a big fan of Juan Guaido, resp. hates his current president.

    The vast majority of people in Venezuela supported Chavez and his social politics, and I personally believe, that he did some good for the country, but Maduro was not able to keep that course.
     
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  19. IBME

    IBME "ALASKAN"
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    Everything he said, was someone else's fault. I just kept wanting to slap the spit out of him. O'poor-me I really want to leave the country but my passport expired. Gee "fool" any good reason you did not leave while it was valid. My daddy is a doctor, but I am starving and there is no water. There is too much that is not believable. But he is so typical of people there and in America, and likely most every country.

    A large part of being a "Special Snowflake", is being a victim. Being helpless and someone needs to solve all their problems in life. These are going to some of the first beggars, knocking on doors begging for food and lodging.
     
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  20. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    After crap has hit the fan ,it doesn't matter who took the crap everybody is covered with it . This peek into Venezuela may be a peek into some of our countries futures . If some on here have unsupportive household members , getting them to look at the Venezuela question and answer interview may persuade them to move more to a prepper's point of view . Don't think this will ever happen in your country , that's what the Venezuela people thought . In a permanent grid down situation the situation would be many times worse .
     
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  21. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Most people would have more luck teaching someone blind from birth what the color blue looks like, than convince these Liberals that they are and should be responsible for their decisions. Venezuela is exactly what the USA is headed for. Too many people actually do believe there is a "Free Lunch". Think about it, Hilary won the popular vote and soon they will win the electoral vote and we will be on our way to becoming exactly like VZ, We will just be the -- USA --- VZ.
     
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  22. IBME

    IBME "ALASKAN"
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    And like I have said many times......if I was a younger man, I would get out of America.

    America could be headed for something kind'a like the Spanish Civil War. Only much-much-much uglier. Which in many ways would be worse then most of the things we currently prep for.

    The end is near for America, at least the America as it currently exists.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
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  23. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    But where would you go that would be better?
     
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  24. IBME

    IBME "ALASKAN"
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    It is important it be safer then (After SHTF in America). as opposed to better now. But it is not something I give any real thought to as I am 72y/o. I liked New Zealand, and there are a lot of smart billionaires currently building retreats and bunkers there. America seems the very best today, but in the very near future it could be the most horrific place to be trapped.

    There is a large number of Russians that have been in Alaska for a very long time, they control some areas. If there was a civil war in the lower 48 states, and China and Russia supported one side. Arms, supplies, food, money, medical supplies could be easily pipelined into Alaska and down the Alcan Hwy..

    I have for a long time prophesied that it would be a piece of cake for China or Russia to capture Alaska.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
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  25. CountryGuy

    CountryGuy Expert Member
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    Venezuela has been on a slow burn since the 70's when they started implementingloads of social programs using money from their oil. The sad thing is Venezuela sits on the largest oil reserves in the world and should have been able to have the lowest cost for extraction but instead they can barely pump oil and the entire infrastructure is in complete disrepair.That's what Nationalization of an industry will get you.

    So take a society and get them hooked on freebies thru social welfare programs, you know like food stamps, free housing, free medicine, free school and so on and then have to give more and more up until you realize you've given and promised more than you can steal.

    I think Luis makes some very interesting points and I'm not going to beat the guy up for saying things as he's experiencing it. Use it for what it is, incite into something I pray never happens here yet all the signs are there for it to happen. Is it so surprising he stayed? I mean how many would honestly pick up and leave their family and everyone and everything they know and move to the unknown and into the unknown? How many people here in the US say, "oh it could never happen here". Might be a lot of that in Venezuela, especially being it's been a nanny socialist existence. Venezuela has lived under a socialist influenced government and then basically dictatorial control for around 40-50 years. If what is around you is the only thing you know how can you expect them to know there is a different way things can and do happen? I mean the idea of any selfprotection doesn't even seem to cross his mind. It's only hide like a mouse in my house. He didn't say anything about it but I wonder if the gangs are starting to do home invasions or looting in higher end neighborhoods.

    Takeaways I hear in this is yes the need to stockpile but even this is dangerous in a country where the food is controlled and your neighbors are willing to sell you out to gain favor with the political class. But definitely important. Money sounds to be huge though I wonder how they are still able to "get dollars". I mean if bolivars are basically worthless how do they buy them. I'm also wondering if he's still getting paid because he likely works for a state controlled business or group? I find the fact he mentioned cryptocurrency is huge and shows the power of it to circumvent government. Water is hug. Months ago I saw a blog article that was talking about how bad the water situation was already due to a drought and mismanagement of the water systems from the wells and lakes to the pipelines and how water truck drivers would drive around making a killing selling water, though they would have to deal with the occasional hijacking by police or military to take the water to their superiors and their own homes. But only like every 5th or 5th load and then the military and police would sort of protect the drivers and the trucks. cheap enforcement, err I mean insurance. and lastly knowledge and skills. Have to know how to repair things to make use of what you have and to have as a way to sell or trade your skills and services to get what you need.
     
  26. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    VZ is our future. As much as I hate that concept, it is going to happen here. No government structure can compete with the Free Everything. Granted intelligent people understand there is no "Free Lunch" but when college kids are trying to defend a "Free Lunch" government, then you have lost. The only good news is that it takes awhile for the collapse to be completed. There will be time for smart preppers to save their families.

    I lay the ground work for my children (grown adults) and it will be up to them to carry it forward. It does not take a rocket scientist to do simple math. Spend more than you earn and sooner or later, you go broke. That applies to people, families and governments. Look at Stockton Ca. and you will see it happening again. They went BK and re now on the road to doing it again. California is hundreds of billions in debt but continues to spend like a drunken sailor on shore leave. Once the Liberals get full control of the government again, we will not be able to get them out. First they will start passing the 'Free All" programs. Then they will disarm the population, one way or another. Once that happens we will be headed into socialist dictatorship. Sad fate for such a wonderful country.
     
  27. CountryGuy

    CountryGuy Expert Member
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    I think you're right on a lot of that and many of these "kids" are the result of broken homes and "give me free shit" parents. I do think that if at some point the powers that be try to outlaw guns there will be a civil war/ second revolution and it won't be pretty at all and my guess a lot of foreign entities would take it as opportunity to kick us while we are down. But I think they know that so that is the reason they slowly nibble away, ban this mag, that stock, this import, allow manufactures to be sued into bankruptcy, it's for the children, no more mass shootings, blah blah blah.. and slowly their cancer spreads and undermines the heart and soul of the warriors that would fight.
     
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  28. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Warriors need weapons to fight. Take away the weapons and all that is left is VZ like sheep. You are right, they will not seize the weapons. Simply ban and and wipe out all the ammo supplies and weapon components. How many can afford ammo when it is $10.00 per bullet? They are already looking at adding more judges to the supreme court to offset the conservative on it. They will rig the Electoral College so that the big cities will control the country. I love my country, warts and all. I just don't see anyway to save it. The best I can do is hope to save my family and their kids for future generations.
     
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  29. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    Ha. That blackpowder thread that is smoking the forum right now just might come in handy someday...who knows? If so, the ones who know how to make it will be more valuable than gold.


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  30. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Black powder, PVC Bows and Crossbows, dowel arrows with duct tape fletching and just about any skills I can learn, will be passed on to my children and grandchildren. After that I am just going to sit back on the rocker I don't own yet and watch the sun sets.
     
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  31. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    A cautionary note on that PVC... Over a period of time, the material is prone to eventually degrading into the most horrid mess of synthetic hairlike splinters on the surface that will make your skin feel like you have been attacked by a demented porcupine, and it is painful! Because you can't really see the PVC splinters to remove them, you won't want to touch your PVC bow, much less use it. Suggestion: learn to make bows from natural materials, too.


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    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
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  32. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Interesting, I have dealt with PVC for many years but never experienced what you have described. I worked in facility maintenance and worked with PVC that was very old but had never seen or felt any microscopic splinters. Now does that happen due to leaving the bow strung or maybe due to the heating process that many use to flatten the bow? I will have to do some research on this. As for natural bow making material, very limited in my neck of the woods (brush actually) and would require greater wood working skills than I possess. The PVC bow was a back up to a back up to a back up plan. That was for when I ran out of smokeless powder, black powder, air riffle pellets and finally stopped just short of the sling shot.
     
  33. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    I have had this happen with a variety of PVC under different circumstances: seasonal garden structures (some sunlight but parts of it were not in direct sun); some PVC was just laying around in the barn; and some was under cover, some not. I never expected that nearly invisible splinters would penetrate my skin just from handling the PVC.


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  34. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    I apologize for the temporary thread drift, y’all...I should have started a new thread, but didn’t realize it would go this far... and this should be the end of it.

    TMT, take a look at what the Indians native to your area used for bows, esp. the Apaches.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/boweyrsden.wordpress.com/2014/02/18/american-indian-weapons/amp/

    If your PVC goes funky, maybe you could apply sinew to it in the same manner as for a traditional bow. Maybe it would also help preserve the springiness of it, too?


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  35. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    I inserted fiberglass rods to assist the draw when strung. I have only had it about two weeks, so not much chance to observe any micro splinters. I have not even been to the archery range yet, just shot a few homemade arrow into the dirt. It is a beast to pull. I did rub it down with Johnston paste wax, so maybe that will help the process. As for the Apache's bow making, I will bet they got their wood, when they migrated into the mountains. I will have to check that out.
     
  36. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    It has been a while since I worked in the plastics industry but it was my understanding that PVC was very susceptible to the cold. It will get very brittle, and break easily.

    Not necessarily bad to have some bows made from PVC, but alternatives made from natural materials would be a good idea also.
     
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  37. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    PVC is great for liquids and wires to pass through them, but it was not created for the strain of being a bow. I would be very, very concerned that after a short while, the shooter runs the risk of his bow shattering and inflicting serious injuries. At the very least, it will not maintain the original spring that it first had...and that's when the trouble will begin (but not end there).

    Edited to add: As Morgan pointed out, the stuff can get brittle. Who knows, really, the life history of any particular piece of PVC. It could have sat in a cold truck/warehouse/whatever before reaching our hands.

    You can easily stock bowstaves just as well as PVC. You can buy them or make them yourself. Plenty of good tutorials Out There! It is not hard, and it would increase your survival knowledge immensely because you will have worked out the inevitable bugs out of the process, yourself.

    You mentioned that it was a beast to pull. Not good. You may have to remain at a full draw for some minutes, waiting for the best shot placement. Whether or not that is the case, too hard of a draw will cause errors. As you can expect, bowhunting demands precision target strikes.

    JMHO


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    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
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  38. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    You are all very correct. But did I mention the PVC bow is like the last on my list of weapon. This was an experiment of could I do it and would it work. I may have used too man fiberglass rods to add the extra tension. Yes I could not hold this at full draw for any length of time. It is more like a point and shoot bow but at close range it would be lethal. Yes, PVC does not like cold temp, neither do I. I am more concerned about high temps , than low temps. The fiberglass rods should help for the softening effect of high temps. As for durability and practicality, it would be better to purchase real bow and arrows. Which I may do but I most certainly am going to purchase one or two crossbows. I just discovered there are some good, quality, affordable, crossbows. Spears are out, my shoulders will not cooperate in a throwing motion. Swords and knives are okay but require a closeness I would prefer to avoid. So I am focusing on distance type weapons. Modern firearms using smokeless and black powder. Bows and crossbows, Air Rifles, and sling shots. Know I know that in a worst case, I can make an effective PVC Bow. It will not win any beauty contest or even durability contests but I do know I can do it. It was fun experiment.
     
  39. CountryGuy

    CountryGuy Expert Member
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    Well I can't say I've ever seen the splinters you're talking about Grizzy, that typically is something inherent to fiberglass. PVC will degrade and crack/ break and create some very sharp shards but typically not splinters on the surface. This is one reason to not use standard pvc pipe for plumbing compressed air in a shop. If it ever blows up, that 100-110psi air blow those shards everywhere like flachettes.

    One thing on PVC look to use the schedule 80 pipe as it has thicker walls. If your concerned about it breaking down in sunlight take your favorite color in a water base latex paint and cut it say 50/50 or even thinner with water and then use a rag or old sponge to wipe down the outside of the pipe. The paint will shield the pipe from UV light which is what degrades the polymer.

    TMT your onto something with using the fiberglass rod inside the pipe to provide the spring force. With that in mind you might even try replacing the pvc pipe with a chunk of PEX stick tubing. on it's own the PEX will give to much but with the rod for a core.... also this way the fiberglass rod would be protected from light and degrading and your protected from the fiberglass should you overdraw it and it shatters.
     
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  40. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I made a PVC bow out of schedule 40 pipes with fiberglass rods inside. It costs about 10 bucks total and I made it to have about a 45-pound draw weight. I covered it with camouflage duct tape and made the bowstring out of 350 paracords that I boiled and then tied. It stretched and then has been a great stable cord. I also did a paracord wrap for my hand hold. it works fine and is almost indestructible. I can take small game with it easily. It would probably work even better if I used lighter arrows but I already had a bunch for a 60 pound bow so I used them. It is dirt cheap, strong, water proof and was a fast fun make.

    I use PVC pipe as big boy tinker toys and make all sorts of things with it. It makes good cheap knife sheaths for cheap knives. I have made them for machetties and plan on a three piece recurve bow. Look up the Backyard Bowyer, he is great with PVC and paracord.
     
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  41. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    The Backyard Bowyer did give me many ideas and much information. I don't have many Original ideas but I do learn quite well from videos. There is also a Cambodian Bow making YT Channel, that I watched. It was fun watching this guy make PVC bows with nothing but hand tools, no power tools and even made a compound bows by hand.

    This bow would not be my go-to weapon but at least I know I can make one very quickly and with very little costs. The fiberglass rods were the big cost at $7.99 at Harbor Freight, had coupon (told you guy I am cheap), regular price $8.99.
     
  42. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    Here are some articles I was just reading concerning Caracas, Venezuela:

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019...s-descends-zombie-apocalypse-level-conditions

    https://www.businessinsider.com/venezuela-police-violence-and-killings-2016-4


    Will Russia "save" Venezuela?

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/venez...n-troops-the-wise-are-running-for-their-lives

    Think about when there will be no one who will/can bail out anyone. Think about when there will be nowhere to run.

    Give consideration to your having stayed too long in the wrong place such that now there is no exit. "Well, I would have gotten out before then!" Gosh, "to err is human." And what if the "small community" to which you have escaped becomes a prison from Hell. I have no crystal ball and neither does anyone else.

    I've given thought to this subject and such are unpleasant thoughts. I enter this simply to invoke thought. I'm not looking for stacks of problem "solutions", for there may not be any.
     
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  43. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    Feeding off of Old Geezers post , I suppose everyone has heard about a frog will sit in water and boil to death if you heat the water slowly . People will sit and watch their freedom disappear if the process is done slowly .People will also sit and let their community of residence slowly erode and not realis how bad their situation is . A location that has slowly become a death trap in a S.H.T.F. situation is something a prepper should be on alert for . Entire countries such as Venezuela and Brazil and many others are like that pot of water that was slowly heated up .
     
    Caribou, CountryGuy and TMT Tactical like this.
  44. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Expert Member
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    For you guys making PVC bows and such, have you looked into pipe guns? A disassembled pipe gun looks like plumbing parts. The only downside is that they are single shot. But used for their purpose, are very useful imo. YMMV
     
    TMT Tactical and Old Geezer like this.
  45. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    Prison inmates have been making zip guns forever now.

    match heads ground to powder mixed with ground glass, galvanized steel pipe, bullets made of wheel weights, whittled wood grips, ...

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=prison+zip+guns&atb=v140-1__&iax=images&ia=images
     
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  46. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    Thanx to Sonofliberty.
    "If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; may your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

    Gotta love Sam Adams.

    This past weekend, found a Sam Adams commemorative coin. Bought it immediately. Will be sending coin to a grandson.
     
  47. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Expert Member
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    Many of the founding fathers have great quotes, this one is apropos to our current national situation imo.
     
  48. CountryGuy

    CountryGuy Expert Member
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    But it's just an old wives tale, the frog will most definitely jump out. That at least gives me hope that some frogs will jump before the lid gets put on the pot.
     
    TMT Tactical and poltiregist like this.
  49. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    I had considered the slam fire firearms but figured my regular firearms would do a better job in that area. Now PVC material was something I would not run out of anytime in the near future.
     
    Sonofliberty likes this.
  50. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Expert Member
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    I am just the opposite. I have some stainless and galvanized pipe laying around. I don't really use PVC much, and when I do the customer provides it so I don't feel right keeping the left over stuff.
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
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