Watch This (5) Five Times.......then Sit Quietly And Just Think.

Discussion in 'News, Current Events, and Politics' started by Sourdough, Jul 27, 2019.

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  1. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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  2. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    start thread start.
     
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  3. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    AND the liberals say there is no need to go armed.
     
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  4. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    This was not a random street fight. This was a group who was looking to do exactly what they did to this person. I would be willing to bet that there are others who have had the same thing done to them by this group. This is very similar to the sucker punch thing that was going on a few years back where a group of people walk along and randomly sucker punch someone walking in the other direction.
     
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  5. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    I have watched it about ten times. I don't think the victim had time to pull a firearm. Even if the victim had their hand on their firearm, and it was a shrouded hammer like say an S&W 640 I don't think they could have done anything. They were on him before he hit the ground.

    For sure a "Hate" crime. They did steal things, but repeatedly spit on him, stomped and kicked him even after he was unconscious.

    Think about this in relation to bugging out post SHTF. Was interesting that the females were equally involved. They also attacked who ever first came to his rescue. Now he could have used a firearm.
     
  6. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    First punch,man backed up and could have drawn firearm. My EDC is always loaded and ready to fire, no hammer or slide action required. Draw and pull trigger. The pack would not have been on him, if he had pulled out a firearm. Cowards do not want to risk getting shot. The man saw the attacker approach, he could have had hand on firearm. JM2C
     
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  7. Alaskajohn

    Alaskajohn Master Survivalist
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    Our country is turning to shit with these gangs of thugs running around with impunity. The police have had their balls cut off in many of the big cities. I cry for our country.
     
  8. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    Why if the SHTF..........I want to be very-very rural Alaska.
     
  9. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    Why do we keep seeing the same racial make up these gangs ? Then people pretend to be appalled if someone speaks up about it .
     
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  10. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    Most people have NO IDEA how fast and vicious an attack can be, even in seemingly “safe” places. Having spent nearly half my life in New Orleans, it was a way of life to expect stuff like this, which was captured by a video surveillance camera.







    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    https://www.theorganicprepper.com/5-violent-cities-world-america/

    We pride ourselves on our first world status and civilized societies, and yet four of our cities ended up on the list of the most dangerous and violent locales on the planet.

    They are:

    • #13 St. Louis

    • #21 Baltimore

    • #32 San Juan

    • #41 New Orleans

    • #42 Detroit
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




    However, it is NOT just a citified problem! Some of the most brutal goings-on occur in the rurals. The only difference is that in cities, the crazies are more concentrated in one area.

    People are the most dangerous predators on the planet. Period.



    .
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
  11. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I didn't see anything all that odd. This is in DC where if you are black you are free to do as you please. Even with the video, there will be no effort made to arrest and punish those animals. Any time people are allowed to be animals they WILL be that way. It was no better when white people could do as they wished to black people.

    The ONLY way to end this sort of thing is to make laws and then enact them equally on ALL people that want to act like animals. We need to redefine US and THEM to mean people versus animals. In Texas, this sort of thing isn't very likely because so many PEOPLE are legally armed and have every RIGHT to defend themselves and others from the animals. If this were in Houston it is very likely that someone would have drawn and shot an animal and best of all there would have been NO legal issues with doing that.

    As long as the government protects the right of animals to do as they wish to the detriment of people this is what you will have. this is NOT a racial issue it is a human versus animal issue and a government that encourages animals to prey on humans. They aren't zombies but they need to be treated as you would a zombie and kill them. You can't fix what is broken in them. A bunch of kluckers are just the same.
     
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  12. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    The first guy that was approached was the one who did not get hit. The second person came forward and got himself involved and they attacked him almost immediately. The second person could have already had his firearm drawn at that point or at least have been ready to draw or in process and ready for a confrontation. In Washington DC I believe it is illegal to carry a firearm. These gangsters are aware of that and take advantage of the situation.
     
  13. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    Well...........I was totally shocked at how fast and how vicious and how hateful it was.
     
  14. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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  15. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    Why isnt Chicago on that list?
     
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  16. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    Because the others may be staistically worse (at the time that list was created)?? Or maybe Chicago is deemed by the media as more “news worthy” and easier to sensationalize?



    .
     
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  17. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    You are in large company, IBME. Most people cannot fathom this kind of brutality.

    Thugs take advantage of those who can be easily caught off guard. And they know that the field is large and ripe for the picking.

    .
     
  18. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Master Survivalist
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    They exhibited no situational awareness. They were not paying attention to their surroundings at all. Thus, imo, a firearm would have had little value in that situation. JMO, YMMV
     
  19. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    People are always quick to......say, "I always have my GUN".........and several have commented about what one or the other guy could'a or should'a did with a gun.

    If either had shot anyone, the others would have said it was just a joke, we were NOT going to hurt anyone. The second guy could NOT have legally shot anyone till he was down, and he was instantly unable to. He could have NOT shot the first guy who hit him...........not for scaring his buddy. You can't shoot someone in the back for NOT hitting someone.

    I was in a large room when three people were shot, right in from of me, and right in front of 20 other people. Those shot were screaming, "I am shot, oh.....my God I'am shot, help me".

    We all just stood there in shock, for about 50 seconds, we did nothing. We seen it, we were stunned, and not one of us did anything. I vividly remember the smell of the gun smoke, and watching it drift up, and watching the dust descend from the ceiling, and hearing the people shot ask for help. And we all did nothing.

    It was just so fricking Surreal. After about one full minute, one observer moved to help one person hit in the upper chest. Think about that........twenty some watched three people shot, and only one person moved to help one person shot.

    There was no danger, it was an accident. We all knew we could safely help, but were paralyzed and stunned. Being in a totally quiet room when a 30:06 goes off. Still no excuse we did not move to render help. I think the EMT's entering the room, after about 4 or 5 minutes was what broke the trance we were all in.

    It use ain't like in the movies, where people instantly react. There was "Civil" litigation and we all had to give legal depositions under oath........was interesting we all were ashamed that we just stood there in total disbelief.

    It is easy to watch the video.....and say what we would have done.....or what this or that guy should have done. Notice what the first guy did.......he hid on the other side of the door. Was nothing he could have realistically done anyway.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
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  20. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    These days, flash mobs like the one in the OP video are becoming more prevalent, and one or even two well-armed people can easily be overwhelmed.

    Self-defense tactics that may work on a one-on-one or even one against five thugs will NOT work in a flash mob situation because you are completely surrounded wolf-pack style. You can easily be jumped from behind or from the side.

    I have learned not to be lulled into false security. (Sadly, I have been called "paranoid" because of being street-smart.)

    .
     
  21. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    I have watched wolves pull down healthy game........It is just like this video. It is a total planned system. One time only two wolves pulled down five healthy Dall Sheep in less then eight or ten seconds. I would not believe it had I not watched it. That was the same trip that a few days later 75 or 90 wolves watched me skin a Grizzly Bear, and some of them were only 25 or 30 yards away from me watching and sleeping.
     
  22. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    It isn't paranoid to be situationally aware. I never sit with my back to the room. I always spot alternative exits before I sit. On an airplane, I know how many rows of the seat are between my seat and the exit doors. If someone gets close to me I prepare to respond.

    I am a friendly outgoing person BUT I am always aware of what is going on around me. A gun in a holster won't save you. You need to be ready to go for it any time that you are out in the public and not allow anyone aggressively to enter into your personal space. You have every right to tell someone to back off and if they then attack you you have every right to kill them. If you already have made the decision then the gun will come out FAST!

    I like the concealed carry by permit. People that do this are different than people that just carry a gun. You have made a mental and legal commitment and you are made VERY aware of your rights and responsibilities.

    Read a little of this...

    https://crimeresearch.org/tag/how-law-abiding-are-concealed-handgun-permit-holders/
     
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  23. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    I forgot to mention... some flash mobs are NOT thuggish-looking and look just like you and me. Then suddenly chaos explodes in seemingly safe places: in shopping centers, theaters, in parking lots, anywhere.

    Situational awareness, be damned. It is great for most "normal" situations but not always effective in a flash mob situation.

    That's why I make every effort to stay away from crowds (and of course, also avoid being isolated in parking lots, streets, etc.). If I am caught in such a place, I leave. Pronto.

    It ain't Mayberry, USA anymore.

    .
     
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  24. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    It is funny that you mentioned Mayberry USA. When my wife and I decided that we were going to bug out we based a lot of our plans on Mayberry. A small town with one high school, low crime rate, I wanted to open Emmit's Fititshop and DID. I just called it Dansco Repair. We wanted someplace where our daughter could roam free and live as we had done as kids. It was hard to do but in the end, we very much made our dreams come true in Mayberry. LOL...
     
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  25. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    Florida stand your ground shooting.
    I counted six seconds from the time he was pushed until he shot.
     
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  26. Snyper

    Snyper Master Survivalist
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    He ended up being charged with manslaughter.
    His trial should be coming up soon.
     
  27. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Watch video carefully. Man hit waved away the attacker, but kept his other handheld low. This is not defensive situational awareness. Second man could have draw weapon and defended his companion. These at low life punks but the don't want to die an the are not going to charge a person with a drawn gun. If they do than a bunch are going to be on the ground too.
     
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  28. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Florida stand your ground case was a stupid shooting. The attacker clearly backed way from the armed man on the ground. At that point, the threat clearly had stopped. Shooting somebody that is backing away or retreating is not self defense / stand your ground. Example: I walk up and hit you, then drop my hand to my side. You may not hit me back as self defense. I have ceased the attack and it is apparent I am not attempting to continue the attack. Stand you ground simply means the victim is under no obligation to flee. You still need a actual reason for self defense --- strong possibility of a continuation of the attack or the action is taken (shooting ) during the actual attack -- not after the aggressor is backing away. Two types of events -- If either of the attacked D.C. victims had drawn and fired, it would have been self defense. Now as for D.C law, the shooter would be going to jail, due to the unlikely event that a visitor would have had a recognized CCL. Better to be judged by 12 of your peers, than carried by 6 of your friends.
     
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  29. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    not just America it is happening in UK too, over 70 stabbing murders in London this year so far and it happens in some of the Northern towns too but the majority is in London.
    yet another reason why I stay out of Cities.
     
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  30. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    Only after protests by his friends.
     
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  31. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Master Survivalist
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    Alaska is pretty rough then. In Florida, either or both could have used firearms in that situation.
     
  32. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Master Survivalist
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    BUT, you could draw your weapon to effect a citizen's arrest for assault and battery.
     
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  33. Snyper

    Snyper Master Survivalist
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    From the victim's perspective, he wouldn't have been able to see the assailant's hands. He could have been reaching for a weapon.

    If you're still within arm's reach you're still a potential danger, and you've already demonstrated you're a threat.

    It's up to the victim to decide the next move, and whether or not they "are in fear of serious bodily injury or death".
     
  34. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Snyper, If I had hit you, you will not be within arms reach. Dropping my hands demonstrates the attack has ended. Without any clear indication I intend to restart the attack, you my not claim self defense, if you retaliate. The stand your ground shooter had distance (disadvantage position on ground but still distance) from the attacker. The attacker stepped back and both hands were visible. The delay time between the draw and the firing of the weapon allowed the attacker to take additional steps away from the shooter. The attack had ended, so no self defense.

    The citizens's arrest is a very tricky subject and requires a lawyer to define. It is not a plain and simple as most people assume and is different in different states. In some cases, you can go from performing a citizens arrest --- to being charged with felony imprisonment or even kidnapping if you force the other person to move past a certain distance. As much as I hate to say it, folks may be better off not performing an arrest (stating you are under citizen arrest). Simply state don't move, make no other commands or threats. Wait for police and if the person attempts to leave, let them leave, don't shoot them. Now in your home, that is a completely different situation. Hope you never need to draw and shoot but be able.
     
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  35. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    If you hit me in Texas there is only one way that you will survive. turn and RUN AWAY. I won't shoot you in the back. If you are still in my face I have no reason to assume that you are NOT going to hit me again and I have no legal requirement to allow that. I don't give a fat rats butt what you do with your hands after you have used them to hit me.
     
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  36. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    SOL, I understand your position and I think a lot alike on the subject but you would not be able to claim self defense. With that being said, a smack down for a smack down works for me, it is just not self defense but retribution. We typically call it pay back.
     
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  37. Snyper

    Snyper Master Survivalist
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    You're making assumptions.
    If I'm not in arm's reach you can't hit me in the first place.
    Dropping your hands could be perceived as reaching for a weapon.

    Both hands were visible from the angle of the camera.
    You can't say what the victim saw and heard, or what was going through his mind.

    That's one opinion.
    Less than 10 seconds before the shooting there had been no attack at all.

    Things can change in a instant.
    A jury will get to decide after they hear all the evidence from each side.
     
  38. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Snyper, Want to bet on the out come of the trial? That video is going to be very difficult to counter. Plus there are secondary statements claiming the shooter had threatened others and brandished his firearm.
     
  39. Snyper

    Snyper Master Survivalist
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    Trial by jury is never something I'd bet on.
    People (jurors) aren't too smart and are easily misled by smooth talking lawyers.

    Not really since it only shows one perspective.
    We don't know how it looked from the victim's point of view, and that is critical.

    Hearsay about prior events is irrelevant.
    The only things that matter now are the details of the incident and any previous criminal convictions.
     
  40. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Master Survivalist
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    Have you ever served on a jury? I have served on 3 and people are smarter than you think. At least people who actually serve on juries are.
     
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  41. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Unless this guys gets a REAL good lawyer, he is headed to prison. Visual evidence is always better (jury motivating) than the defendants point of view. You may call it hearsay evidence but the prosecutor may call it past action to demonstrate a wiliness to take life. Remember this is not a murder charge. Past actions are going to be presented. You don't need surround 360 video to convince a jury. A good attorney / prosecutor will be happy to fill in the perceived missing details not shown. It will be easy to discredit the shooters point of view as self serving after the fact. The video will show the time delay (critical factor) before the shots are fired, the distance from the shooter (another critical fact) no apparent weapon on or near the attacker and the appearance of the attacker retreating. The attacker was guilty of assault, the shooter is going to be found guilty of manslaughter. JM2C
     
  42. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    It's the ratio. There are s0000 many people living in the Chicago metro area that even horrible crime numbers get washed-out. Were a statistician pick a specific neighborhood in Chicago, the stat.s would look worse than a open combat war zone.
     
  43. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    Hmmmm.
    Lets look at what the law actually says.

    https://www.ajc.com/news/national/w...round-law-say-you-can/jpSBjlmK7L7bQdSFR45E1N/

    (1)
    A person is justified in using or threatening to use force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. A person who uses or threatens to use force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat before using or threatening to use such force.

    (2) A person is justified in using or threatening to use deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person who uses or threatens to use deadly force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground if the person using or threatening to use the deadly force is not engaged in a criminal activity and is in a place where he or she has a right to be.

    Florida’s “stand your ground’’ law basically says you can use deadly force – such as shooting someone – to defend yourself if you fear for their life, or are afraid of serious bodily injury. In Florida, there is no duty to retreat before using deadly force.

    What does ‘duty to retreat’ mean?

    Under Florida’s law, if someone is in a place they are legally allowed to be, they do not have a “duty to retreat” (try to get away from that place) before using deadly force on a person they feel threatened by. That rule applies even if there is a way to get away without being harmed.

    What does Florida’s stand your ground mean for you in the legal sense?

    Florida’s statute says that if a person lawfully uses deadly force self-defense, then that person is “immune from criminal prosecution” in that case. In other words, if you kill someone to save yourself because you had a reasonable fear you were going to be harmed, you will not be charged with killing that person. That provision applies even if you could have gotten away from the situation safely.

    >>Florida’s gun laws: How have they changed after the Parkland shooting?

    In addition, last year, the Florida Legislature passed a law that shifted the burden of proof in a stand your ground case from the defense to the prosecution. That means that defendants do not have to prove in pretrial hearings that they were defending themselves in order to avoid prosecution. Another part of Florida’s law says law enforcement officers who make an arrest that is later determined to be unwarranted face legal fees and civil penalties.
     
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  44. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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  45. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    I think all he has to say is "I felt threatened and scared for my life after he knocked me to the ground." The burden of proof is no longer on the defender but has shifted to the attacker to prove that the defender did not feel threatened.
     
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  46. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    The Avenues Gang was formed in the 1940s as a social initiative to give Hispanic youth protection from criminal gang membership.

    "The best laid plans of mice and men oft go astray." Robert Burns

    https://unitedgangs.com/avenues-gang/
     
  47. randyt

    randyt Master Survivalist
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    I have to wonder hypothetically, how many times can a person hit you and keep putting their arms down to their sides and no or yes be a threat. I would think if someone hit someone and was still facing them they would be considered a threat. If they hit you once what is the chance they are going to hit you again. Arms at their side, ever hear of a sucker punch. It can come from any angle
     
  48. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    There were two shootings this weekend. One in Brooklyn NY and one in a little town south of San Francisco CA. HOW could this happen when both places have extremely strict gun control laws?????? OH yeah, criminals don't pay attention to laws. I know where I would want to go if I was a NUT and wanted to shoot people....

    Off-topic I know but also sort of appropriate. This is what you get when the government prohibits its citizens from defending themselves and protects the criminals from the wrath of their victims.
     
  49. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Yes and No. The burden does fall on the prosecutor but the video, and eye witness's may change the "In Reasonable fear" into a he got mad and shot him.--- 1) The shooter was justified to draw his weapon, reasonable fear (not brandishing). The problem lies in the time delay and lack of any visible continuation by the attacker. There was enough evidence in pre-trail to get an arrest warrant on the shooter. Prosecutors do not like to loose in court and they certainly don't want to have to pay all the fees and costs. They think they have a good case.

    I think the attacker, who was originally betting on is size advantage, blind sided the shooter and then realized he had screwed up, when the shooter drew his weapon. The shooter screwed up when he did not wait for the cops to arrive or for the attacker to take a step towards him.

    Here is a possible way it will be presented, --- If the shooter was in fear, why did he pause and then ONLY fire one shot? Now if I am truly in fear for my life and felt forced to shoot somebody. I flat out guarantee, I don't stop shooting until I run out of bullets or the attacker quits moving. Lack of fear and panic will be shown to the jury.

    We are going to have to wait and see how all this plays out. It will be interesting.
     
  50. Snyper

    Snyper Master Survivalist
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    I've never been on one, but I know people who have served.

    I've also worked in retail, dealing with the public, and there are lots of people who really aren't very smart who get called for jury duty.
     
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