What Does “advanced Prepping/survival” Mean To You, And Why Is It Important?

What does “advanced prepping/survival” mean to you, and why is it important?

I am keenly interested in learning your views on this topic because I think many of us, including myself, can broaden our horizons in this area.

(I have touched on a few of these ideas in other posts so please forgive me if you have already seen bits and pieces of this as I consolidate my thoughts in this thread. Because there is a 1000 word post limit in the forum’s software, I have split my post into two parts.)


Are you a prepper, a survivalist, or a hybrid?

Generally speaking, preppers rely on their preparations to carry them through disasters; survivalists realize that preps are temporary, and are only as good as they last. They plan to outlive physical preps with a survival mindset and well-honed skills.

I consider myself to be a hybrid prepper/survivalist, with a few extras thrown into the mix.

Like many of you, I have maintained basic disaster preparation supplies that have served me well in various SHTF situations such as illness, unemployment, hurricanes, ice storms, etc. But I realize that even the most comprehensive and well-laid preps may not carry me through a prolonged austere environment caused by things like a widespread pandemic, famine, EMP, economic collapse, climate change, or protracted war. Additionally, just one hard bump in the beltway could cause a chain reaction of other events that can easily deplete most people’s disaster preparations.

I think the popular mantra "I have enough preps to last until it gets back to normal" is potentially disastrous because it may be defined by financial limitations or our own views of what may actually happen. After a hard reset caused by severe SHTF events, things may never get back to the "normal" that we are accustomed to.

Surviving a disturbingly new normal may require mental flexibility, resiliency, self-sufficiency, and for many, good spiritual health. As can be expected, this is not a once-done kind of thing, but a constant work in progress.


Prepare to be separated from your treasures

Material things can be lost by eventual depletion or wear and tear during prolonged hard times or through a series of SHTF events. There may be situations where we could be separated from ALL of our essentials: information, gear...everything. We could be away from home, or a widespread fire could overwhelm our area, or any number of things can wipe out our disaster preparations.

Relying solely on preps can be dangerous because what will happen when material goods run out? Will you be defined by the “stuff” you own, and possibly be in a very bad situation because of not having certain items? Backup plans are good!

My most valuable backup plans include having the essentials for survival in my head which I have studied and practiced for years like my life depended upon it. Although I also have several copies of valuable reference and field manuals in different locations, my survival is not dependent on them.

I already know and thoroughly enjoy different levels of self-sufficiency on a daily basis, including gardening without power tools or store-bought fertilizer/pesticides, fermenting/canning/ dehydrating foods, making breads with wild yeast, making cheese, soap, foraging for wild edibles and medicinals, flintknapping, bowhunting, butchering, tanning hides, etc. but I don't regard these things as the deeper things of survival because I have been doing these things for decades.

For me, advanced survival includes refining and sharpening self-sufficiency skills, and learning new ways of doing things. It also means things such as...

- Continuing to transplant more wild edibles and medicinals into my area.

- Planting more things that don't appear to be food to the casual observer, but have high nutritional value (my camouflage garden is sizable, but I want to establish more gardens in other locations).

- Naturalizing the above plants by encouraging them to grow prolifically in patches by providing the ideal habitat (site selection, soil amendments, etc.)

- Learning how to identify and use more new plants for food and medicine (I already know a great deal, but I may be an old, old lady before I learn them all).

- Honing my flintknapping skills (I can quickly make an arrowhead out of glass or natural materials but my flintknapped knives take longer because they too often break before I am finished.)

- Practice my atlatl marksmanship on moving targets. (I am deadly accurate on a stationary target, so there’s hope!)

- Make new bird-traps and practice breasting out birds for dinner. (I am too slow.)

- I want to take an EMT course, then adapt the knowledge in ways that will work without the aid of modern medical drugs and devices...for austere times when there may be none.

(I could go on and on, but you get the idea...)

Last, but not least, my most important daily prep includes continuing to cultivate strong mental and spiritual health because having a sound mind and spirit has always carried me better than any physical prep ever has.



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Do I have a survivor personality that is not dependent on what I own?

Reviewing historical accounts of long-standing sieges, famines, oppression, and wars will reveal a lot of things that most preppers are NOT prepared to deal with because the stuff of nightmares is not something that most people want to think about, much less prepare for.

Advanced survival could include developing a "survivor personality" by mentally preparing for the worst. When I read first-hand accounts of survivors of the Holocaust, sieges, famines, brutal POW camps, and oppression... I ask myself, what would I do in a similar situation? What are the common denominators among successful survivors?

I have mentioned this in another post but will repeat it here for the benefit of those who missed it: a good "cheat sheet" is the book, The Survivor Personality, by Al Siebert, PhD. The book is based on more than 40 years of study of the survival phenomenon and provides insight into the qualities and habits shared by people who successfully cope with difficult situations. If a person does not have this trait, the book attempts to help you develop it. (A survivor personality can't be taught but it can be learned!) Although it is not written specifically for severe SHTF events, honing the survivor personality can be beneficial in all situations.

I almost didn't finish reading the book, because page after page covered traits I thought that I already had. But I’m glad I finished it because of the critical information in the last chapter, "Surviving Being a Survivor."

Other good books are Deep Survival: Who Lives, Who Dies, and Why, by Laurence Gonzales, and Surviving the Extremes, by Kenneth Kamler. There are lots more in the “Recommended Reading List” in the back of Al Siebert's book.


Do more than just collect information

One mistake I don’t want to make is amassing huge amounts of valuable self-sufficiency information without putting them into actual practice. I don't want to be deep into a SHTF situation (and maybe lose my precious stash of info) and wonder what on earth how to do something.

I believe it is better to practice as much as possible now, not when I am under duress. Many survival skills take quite a bit of practice. Much of the printed info I have seen do not even begin to teach you all that you need to know to do the job properly. Some of what I have seen in books, websites, and Youtube is MISINFORMATION (much of it has been parroted from one source to another until most people believe it to be true).

Even if the information is correct, sometimes details that can make all the difference in the world in the success of the final outcome are missing. How would I ever know, unless I actually tried to apply what I have learned into actual practice?

NOW is the best time for me to learn new skills while I have the resources to troubleshoot and perfect them. Then finally, I can develop priceless “muscle memory” when my new skills become second nature through repetition.

With that thought in mind, learning, practicing and perfecting my survival and primitive living skills have become enjoyable recreational pastimes and a way of life for many years.

Self-sufficiency is like a huge elephant. How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time: master the essential skills first, then the "nice to have" skills last. By the time the so-called doomsday clock strikes midnight, you would at least be better prepared than if you were lulled into a false sense of security with your stash of info.

In the process of mastering skills, you will become a very, very valuable commodity to yourself and your group. And if something went awry with your sources of information, that's cool. You’ve gotten it programmed into muscle memory, and know what the outcome will be.


What new ideas can you try?

If you are new at the idea of advanced survival and would like a springboard of ideas to jump from, here are a few suggestions of useful things to know and practice:

- Sign up for (as local as possible, but travel if you must) hands-on courses in wild edible/medicinal identification and use.

- Learn how to back-up your disaster preps with a wide variety of primitive living skills which will serve you well long after (or before) the last store-bought item is gone. (I will use my skills to supplement and preserve my preps as long as possible, and not wait until I have run out of everything.)

- Learn how to “camouflage-garden” with plants that the average person would not recognize as food, and would not be a target for hungry thieves. Some plants in my camo-gardens are grown from seeds of plants that are not regarded as food in my country but are delicacies in other parts of the world. And other plants are wildlings that have been transplanted or planted from seed. (Good sources of these seeds include https://www.rareseeds.com/ and https://strictlymedicinalseeds.com/ and others).

And of course, while my regular, conventional food gardens are likely to be raided by nighttime thieves during a prolonged SHTF scenario, the plus side is that they will think they "got it all" and overlook the fact that I have more enduring camouflaged gardens planted all over the area that requires very little, if any, upkeep. For years, I have invested heavily in this project, “Johnny Appleseed-style,” and reap the rewards daily. I love my wildlings; they are good food and good medicine, both!

- Bolster your survival mindset/spirituality on a daily basis, because, as many can attest, staying mentally/spiritually healthy will likely carry you through severe times better than any other skill or physical prep.

Like thousands of survivors of various SHTF events, I can also speak from personal experience: one of the most valuable things that have helped me to overcome extremely oppressive situations is good spiritual health. I can tap into a strength that is greater than what is normal, which has helped me get through severe times when I felt pressed beyond movement with no way out.



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Advanced prepping/survival is "Living IT". Not planning, not studying to do it, not downloading useful information, not even training or practicing it. Surely not purchasing shit. I guess you are as advanced as you are living it right now. Often see guys post they were such and such in the military. But, I often wonder was that 31 years ago, did they have bad knees then, were they 72 pounds overweight....??? You are what you are today, now, this very minute. Now is as advanced as you can currently survival function. As I approach 73 years old, and living where and how I live, I get my current survival ability slammed in my face everyday. Nothing says welcome to reality, like having (without thinking) just jumped down five feet off of something, and when standing back up, wondering why that hurt, that should not have hurt.

When a person makes the decision to live a lifestyle that is full of danger, especially in a harsh, remote location, with months of isolation, and no one to save you, if you get in trouble. Then everything shifts, you can't even make small mistakes. You learn to go slow, you learn to question everything that you encounter in the isolated wilderness.

You move through the wilderness, but you are not separate from the wilderness. You move as a part of the whole wilderness. And at the same time the wilderness moves through you, much like the water flows into the lake, then out of the lake. It is part of the lake, it is part of everything in the lake, yet at the same time it is it's self.

Your awareness is always high, even when you sleep you are keenly aware of smells and sounds. You learn to actually see what is moving outside the tent using your ears and nose. You know what it is and what it is doing.

(I finish later)

 

Basically, at the starting level, it is a hobby. Once you get serious it becomes a lifestyle. One has to do with what you DO and the other is who you ARE.

 

Grizzlyette, information is not knowledge. You can read all the books that you want and be nowhere. The important thing about knowledge is in the word itself KNOWledge. In order to KNOW you can do something then you need to do it over and over until there is no doubt that in a situation that you KNOW you can do it. I have watched people that can make fire with a bow and drill in minutes at home fail miserably in the woods when they have to find the right woods to make the bow, drill, and board. If you have to carry the bow and stuff with you then you might as well carry enough matches or other fire makers to light a bunch of fires.

The thing about knowledge is that you can feel comfortable in trying circumstances. Fear and stress are mind killers and your mind is your greatest tool. KNOWledge is at the root of genuine confidence. A confident attitude during an ugly situation is priceless!

 

"advanced prepping" for me, is when I realized that my preparations were only short term (30-60 days) and that I was woefully lacking to survive a long term SHTF situation. So now I'm working on establishing the foundations for long term situations......we won't be at our house, we'll move to the group location. Advanced for me is the power grid gone, the only food is what you grow, there is little or no organized medical, heating will be done by wood, and there will be little or no organized government/law enforcement, money won't be used and we'll be back to bartering and trading when it's safe. Rather depressing

 

I don't know whether I'm an "advanced prepper" or not. It started being a hobby thing back in the 1970's with The Mother Earth News and Mel Tappan; became a bit more involved when I moved into a primarily Mormon neighborhood, and finally got serious when Dawn and I sold our suburban gated-community home in Arizona and bought a mini-farm in rural southern Idaho.

At my age I didn't want to play Naked and Afraid or emulate Bear Grills (although I do like grilling steaks and shish-kebabs now and then). I believed then and believe now that the best place for someone to survive and pull through Hard Times would be in a small community of ordinary people who wouldn't look askance of a citified couple moving in, admitting they knew nothing about farming, and tried to become good neighbors.

It's worked out well (so far). We are called upon to help baby-sit the chickens and other livestock when our neighbors ore out of town and they do the same for us. The guy who did most of the work on my new goat-shed has 12 kids, three of whom I give guitar lessons to. Everybody chips in, regardless of age, where you go to church or coven, or even what you think of Trump. Yeah, I have a few firearms, and yeah, we grow a lot of our own food and store a lot, and yeah, I'm still saving for a backup manual well-pump, and so on. But still...

This life is better for Dawn and me, and (I believe) more conducive to long term survival and prosperity than squatting in the woods in the rain and making a fire by rubbing a couple of dry clichés together. Every cat his own rat, as they say; you may consider me as just a transplanted city boy playing prepper, but advanced? Well, you gotta be "advanced" something (maybe dumb) to leave all your friends behind and start over. That's prepping enough for me!

 

I never considered myself the member of any special group, except being an American.

Then I hear that I am a survivalist. OK, so that makes my ancestors all mega-survivalists because they lived off the land up in the hollars of Southern Appalachia.

The Cherokee were nomadic though they did claim territories. When the weather turned bad in winter, the Cherokee headed for warmer climes. My people stayed put, because they could figure out a way to defeat any problem ... and their souls were made of leather. Our Over-Mountain Men scraped a British invading force off King's Mountain. My ancestors fertilized the ground with their blood.

The Scots-Irish of America came here as survivalists by nature.

Battle of Kings Mountain

U.S. Revolutionary War terminology; Whigs vs. Loyalists:
https://www.reference.com/history/were-whigs-tories-revolutionary-war-f0692d22d7afbf8c

Now the Battle:
http://madeofcotton.com/kings_mountain.htm

My youngest son works a rock's throwing distance from Sycamore Shoals where the Over-Mountain Men gathered. He is the nicest man, yet he is feared by those who work with him. Both he and I have absolutely no idea on Earth why this is so -- swear to God. He's big and strong and hairy, but he is a gentle man. He'd NEVER be aggressive unless really, really pushed -- at which point, I would myself think about leaving the county. I mention my son, because he is a clone of the men who gathered at Sycamore Shoals. My mom's dad was a clone of them (Scots / small part Cherokee; subsistence hunter; the man had a hawk nose; maybe he was a hawk that looked like a bear). Many of the men of this area today are clones of these noble men. The Over-Mountain Men in the latter 1700s were NOT looking for trouble. Trouble came to them. They then did that which they felt they had no choice in doing. End of story.

 

basic survival vs. advanced survival.....take a look at words first

ba·sic
[ˈbāsik]
ADJECTIVE

1. forming an essential foundation or starting point; fundamental.
   "certain basic rules must be obeyed" ·
   fundamental · rudimentary · primary · principal · cardinal · chief ·
   [more]

sur·viv·al
[sərˈvīvəl]
NOUN

1. the state or fact of continuing to live or exist, typically in spite of an accident, ordeal, or difficult circumstances.
   "the animal's chances of survival were pretty low" ·
   [more]

ad·vanced
[ədˈvanst]
ADJECTIVE

1. far on or ahead in development or progress.
   "negotiations are at an advanced stage" ·
   [more]

my view of basic may differ from others view..same as advanced...but here goes.

daily survival boils down these

food,water,shelter and security...rotate order as is needed to survive.

a base line of survival..like i said in another post could be crawling in a groundhog hole and nawing on raw meat...you will survive but it wont be pleasant....but it works....

i finally heard a famous military survival guy admit survival boils down to calories barring armed conflict...calories in vs. calories out. chores to live cost calories....just looking around the globe at various societies and how they live...if they spend calories and time doing something then that takes away from other chores.

water...carrying water...takes time and energy....ever carry water day in and day out..it sucks..sucks even more as you age and the body starts showing its age as well....not to mention injury.

using me as example...i have a creek,pond,springs and a deep well bore hole. i can carry water,but its uphill...i dont want to do that. i would and will if need be but i want advanced survival....a cistern to catch rain water off roof,a bit of fuel storage to run generator to fill cistern up ever so often.doesnt take long to fill a 500gallon tank.i can live months with the 500 gallon tank full as long as i use outhouse instead of a flush toilet. i have family that has a spring captured above their home. it has a plastic water pipe running down the mtn close to 1000 feet to a cinder block holding tank that holds over 1000 gallons of water that feeds the home. it stays full all the time.not carrying water for daily needs is advanced survival.now they or you can spend that time doing something else like growing food,patrolling,animal husbandry etc. etc. that a force/labor multiplier.

i am fencing in a new garden area...its 100-150 feet away from various water sources and one is up a steep bank.i can carry it but why when i can capture spring and pipe it up fill to the garden using a 12 volt well pump for $60. the garden is 150 ft long...by pumping water to a tank i just cut my walking and carrying heavy load of water by half..remember water is 100-150ft away then i have to go length of garden. it cuts my work load in half...every carry water to 75 tomato plants who all need a minimum of 1 gallon each? thats 75 gallons in 5 gallon buckets x 2 each trip.thats 7 to 8 trips from water source.you wont do that very fast i tell ya...and thats just the tomatoes...what about other stuff in garden?

more to come...

 

fuel as a force/labor multiplier.....i have been clearing land as of late. i have a new chainsaw and its super efficient on fuel(echo 60cc saw). i been thinking about this as i worked so i watched closely at what was going on.like ibme says do you practice it...i filled saw up,it holds 21 fluid ounces. i started cutting on a large tree. i cut it up and didnt use a tank of fuel...want guess how much wood was there...my neighbors dump truck full.try cutting that with a cross cut saw in a couple hours time.it wont happen.heres another test..i am burning 17 month old non ethanol untreated fuel...it still fine.

diesel fuel...i have a 3 cylinder tractor...for just a few ounces of fuel i can skid entire trees to where i want to cut and store them to dry. ...that vs. cutting it in woods and hauling in via wheelbarrow...or on my back on pack frame.you would be spending lots of time cutting and splitting and stacking in woods to let it dry so as to not be packing green wood up side of a mtn which is far heavier that dried wood.

 

i live in a remote community...we ALL have chainsaw....all have tractors,some have bulldozers and track-hoes. we have no outside services except for some spotty electric lines. we are a community of farmers and loggers etc. we got to have stuff...cattle dont feed themselves. no one is going to let 1000's of cattle die.its just part of good farming practices to keep supplies on hand to farm/ranch.these people dont live or look at life from normal paycheck to paycheck.its a season to season..many only get paid once a year. i talked with a friend other day he has 350 brood beef cows now...do you have any idea the planning and prep work to take care of them.its alot...longterm views only.he and one farm hand do it all on their acreage. no subdivisions,no stores no nothing...average landowner size here...200 acres...some have over 500 acres.

 

this is where you and i differ....if you look at 1000's of years of history....collapses happen...but its not global....there are areas as well as peoples that continue on with life during troubled times.

take black plague of your area....they kept death records even during that time. guess what a professor found out reading them? aristocrats didnt die off..why? because once troubles started they all moved to their country estates with hired hands and hold up there while it burnt itself out .they stayed clear of population but their estates continued to produce goods for them and their hired folks.

just one example.

i dont know how old you are...but age will catch us all....it is me....i have the what you call 'post collapse' covered....like ibme said aging sucks....some of us are doing advanced because of how we live and locations now.

to many folks i live a post collapse life now.....lol...they cant hack how it is here and i love that..it keeps the rif raf out and away.it helps too most land is handed down through family and nothing much is for sale very often.

 

First, IMHO this is a GREAT post. Thanks for starting it Grizz. I always think I am doing well until I read what you have done, and then I am embarrassed. I feel like I have barely scratched the surface. All great stuff. It motivates me to do more.

Second, I consider myself advanced given where I live; how I live; and my personal/family circumstances. Many of you live in a more rural setting. I don't have that luxury. It is easy to say " Well move" but that isn't going to happen. Moving to a rural location and starting a small farm when you have family members with failing health is a fool's errand doomed to failure from the start. So, what do you do? You make the most with what you have, and do your best.

Where I feel I fall short is food. We have good supplies, but we are not self sustaining. There are things I would like to do, but never seem to find the time. A busy work schedule is a lame excuse, I know, but as others have mentioned, getting old sucks. I still work two jobs, and when I get home I am tired. Working always 6, sometimes 7 days a week doesn't make me want to run out and tend the garden when I do have free time. My preps will be geared toward a more urban or suburban environment. We can move if need be, but it will be a last resort. Even if the house is leveled by a tornado or burned to the ground my plan would be to stay on my property, and weather the storm. A flood is the only natural disaster I can think of that would make me evacuate.

So where does that leave me? I guess I am a Prepper, and not a Survivalist, although I think I have a Survivalist mentality. I feel like I am advanced, although that is a relative term. I am pretty advanced compared to Joe the Plumber, but fall painfully short of Grizzlyette Adams. I guess I am somewhere in the middle. Good, but still a lot of work to do.

 

like grizzgal i manipulate my forest planting wild edibles both for food and medicines. some plants are hard to find to do so.

by doing this you ensure your access to them.why? be awful to be sick and know of a plant you could use and it be miles away.this way you have it on hand for use.

seed collecting....i have collected various seeds and then used them to grow out crops.i grew up doing this as my grandfather was a seed collector. i also in agriculture school had semesters in plant breeding as well as in my adult life read and practiced way more than my baseline of starting this.i am constantly trying new cultivars to see what is best for my wants and needs.

growing up on ranch i learned so many skills and i took them for granted as i thought everyone knew how to do this or that.

one of the most important items to me in being advanced is a working shop..one that is both modern and old school. this is were items are fixed and repaired to keep functioning.i have lots of tools and even have hand planes from my family going back to civil war.i even have a set of 'knives' carried by my ancestors during civil war when he was in cavalry then.they are razor sharp still and were made in Sheffield England pre american civil war.be awful to break handle out of a tool and not be able to fashion a new one with draw knife and other various planes to get that much needed tool back in operating order.

blah blah blah....i have said enough

do what each of us sees fit...i am on my own path of 'doing' each and everyday to best of my ability both physical and financial.

good luck to all

 

Have to be honest. I completely ignored the second part of the question: "Why is it Important?" To our community this is pretty self-evident. It is life saving important. When you watch the news every day, and witness the SHTF events going on around us it begs the question Why would you not prep, and how could you possibly not think it is important?

To me it has always been common sense and practical to prep. When those events occur like a power outage we just get out what we need. When we were flooded I was concerned for my wife. We were stranded for a short time, but she went to a neighbor's house, so if she had to get to medical attention she could. I was not the least concerned about anything else. At the time it was quite calming to know we would be fine. Maybe that is part of it. Having been through a few mini SHTF's it makes you appreciate, and see the value in what you have done. How many of us have watched the news, and thought " OMG!! I wouldn't want to be that guy!"

 

I am definitely more survivalist than prepper due, in large part, to my nomadic lifestyle. Most of my "preps" are gear that will help me gather more food, clean water, shelter etc.... when and as needed. That will change when I get my own dirt. I plan to live a sustainable lifestyle. Generating my own power, using wells and cisterns for water, growing/raising the bulk of me food. Animal husbandry will be my weakest skill at that point. The good thing about sites like this is that I won't have to reinvent the wheel when that time comes. I can learn from all of you and many others on multiple sites and from the locals when I finally do settle down.

 

You can't have "Advanced Survival Systems" that has a deeply flawed "Basic Survival Foundation".

And in the preverbal nut shell, that is what is wrong with modern so called first world lifestyle. Therefore..........step one has to be extraction from current basic survival systems.

The very concept of possibly needing to "Bug'out" points to the flawed "Basic" foundation.

But, most so called preppers, insist on holding onto their current existence. And believe they can build on or reinforce that flawed basic foundation. They want to hold on to their employment, their cell phones, etc..

They simply can't even conceive of abandoning what they have now, and they will die clinging.

 

I tend to look at survival more at a goal ("How can we obtain enough food to eat?", as example) based level personally, since it's possible to be more prepared in some areas and less in others. "Advanced" to me would mean that you have at least 3, or better yet 4 or more, ways to obtain that goal. Primary, Alternate, Contingency, Emergency (PACE) works well for planning, if you've actually practiced all the way to the "Emergency" level, and it works, then I'd say that qualifies as advanced prepping/survival. The Primary level is where we live today, so "How will we get water to drink?" probably means turning on a faucet, then you plan (and practice/test) the Alternate, Contingency, and Emergency options for a time when no water comes out of the faucet. Sometimes the answer requires learning a new skill (like gardening), other times it's just spending money (like buying an Emergency 2nd floor fire escape ladder for "how will we escape a house fire?"). Lately I've been asking myself a lot of medical/injury related questions and the answers require a combination of both learning new skills and spending money.

Works for me anyway. On whether we're preppers, suvivalists, or hybrid - guess I'd say hybrid.

 

The thing about all of this whether you call it prepping, survival or just being self-sufficient is that like so many things it looks different when you look ahead than when you look back. Beginning you start thinking about the things that you will need and start gathering them. the next level is when you begin to understand that you need to add skills and knowledge and start to gather ing books and information. the final stage is when you have turned the information into true knowledge through experience and practice.

If you watch this from the outside it is rather odd. In the beginning, your list and the pile of NEEDED items grows and it seems like every time you turn around something new needs to be added to that list and pile. As time goes on you have more and more stuff but then things start to change.

You started out with almost nothing and had no serious chance to survive anything much worse than a storm. You gathered and became much more prepared but in the end, stages the list of things that you NEEd to survive starts to shrink and your pile of things that you would have to carry shrinks. In the end, you end up much as you were in the beginning with very little in your pack but now you KNOW that you have everything that you need without all that STUFF.

Look at the "things" that an animal NEEDS to survive indefinitely in an environment and realize that you are smarter and have hands. You really don't HAVE to have anything else. You came into this almost naked and helpless but in the end, you might be naked again but you are far far from helpless.

Basic is realizing how much you need and you start to gather it. Advanced begins when you start to realize how little you need and start abandoning your dependence on those THINGS.

 

While I mostly agree with you, it is worth some effort to retain some technology. That is why I will invest in solar, wood gassification, bioincineration and steam power as time and finances allow. OTOH, I already have many hand tools I can use in place of electrical and pneumatic tools.

 

Thank you all for your valuable input. You turned this thread into one of the best I have ever seen, and I found a lot of good take-home points.

For the sake of new members who may be starting out on the road of self-sufficiency in Hard Times, I would like to develop this thread a bit more as time permits. First off...

You are so right, LIVING it absolutely defines advanced survival, but we all have a starting point.

Looking back on my own experiences, I see that my success involved a large helping of pure luck combined with a lot of studying and practice beforehand. For example, foreknowledge of wild edibles and medicinals helped me to stay healthy, and so on… But the actual living part was 50% on-the-spot winging it because as the saying goes, “necessity is the mother of invention.” I learned a lot of things that are not found in typical books, videos, or internet forums. So in that context, “living IT” is spot-on.

But advance planning, along with hefty doses of knowledge and practice is so very helpful, and for the most part, absolutely essential.

For example, if I wanted to navigate an unknown-to-me waterway I would consult a map or at least talk with someone who has been there so I can learn where the dangerous rapids are. If I know where there is a fifty mile stretch of class IV rapids that I need to prepare for, or if there is a 4o mile rocky drop in ⅛ of a mile, I could plan ahead to portage my gear overland to avoid the potentially deadly spots.

The school of hard knocks is great, but a terrible taskmaster if that is all we had to learn from. I eagerly seek those who have gone before us and recorded valuable knowledge in books, videos, and forums such as this. I especially appreciate peer-reviewed journals, blogs, and forums because the chances of false information being called out and exposed by the membership are greater.

^ This! ^


When I first moved onto my BOL over twenty years ago, I was “invincible” and planned my future accordingly. Father Time taught me differently. Big Fat Painful Lesson: plan ahead!!!

This resonates deep in my soul because my experiences echo this very concept. I remember being spooked when I was camping alone on my BOL for the first three years with no quick communication with the outside world if I needed help. (The old bag cellular phone and the mountains did not play well together.)

Realizing that I would not be able to call for help was quite an attitude adjustment. Being in a tight spot several times gave me a foregleam what it will be like in the event of a severe SHTF event. You fix the problem yourself or die.

I learned that is where advance knowledge and practice can come in VERY handy.


.

 

Stood there boldly
Sweatin' in the sun
Felt like a million
Felt like number one
The height of summer
I'd never felt that strong
Like a rock

I was eighteen
Didn't have a care
Working for peanuts
Not a dime to spare
But i was lean and
Solid everywhere
Like a rock

My hands were steady
My eyes were clear and bright
My walk had purpose
My steps were quick and light
And i held firmly
To what i felt was right
Like a rock

Like a rock, i was strong as i could be
Like a rock, nothin' ever got to me
Like a rock, i was something to see
Like a rock

And i stood arrow straight
Unencumbered by the weight
Of all these hustlers and their schemes
I stood proud, i stood tall
High above it all
I still believed in my dreams

Twenty years now
Where'd they go?
Twenty years
I don't know
Sit and i wonder sometimes
Where they've gone

Lyrics by Bob Seger

 

When I read posts and threads on many different forums..........I find it very easy to tell how far someone has advanced in "Prepping/Survival" or how stuck they are in "Illusions".

If they can only talk about, be obsessed about Weapons.......and Defense, revolving primarily around "Guns and Knives". They are simply delusional about the priorities of survival. It is fine that they get some kind of near sexual arousal about firearms and knives, and other weapons.

Now if they spent half as much time and physical energy practicing the digging of trenches or foxholes, or even searching for a safe place to hide. They would have started down the road of "REAL" Gunfighting and Knifefighting and "TRUE" defensive survival.

I think most would not know how to operate a shovel or trenching tool. I think most could not run or even walk 440 yards, then stand and hit a 55 gallon drum at a 100 meters. I think most have zero idea of what their proficiency is without a shooting bench and sand bags.

Reality will sink-in when they get gut-shot.........and discover gunfights hurt worse then a hard kick in the Nuts. They will also discover how loudly they can scream and cry like a little girl.

 

I think this is true of some people, and we have all seen what you speak of. On the other hand, you may be underestimating a lot of people who have been through hardcore experiences and who are preparing for much more than they actually care to talk about on a public forum. Not everyone puts it all Out There.

Signed,
Yours truly


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TMT: That all rings so true. It used to be when I ran they timed me with a watch. Then they had to time me with a calendar. Now I don't run. I waddle quickly. I too am geared for the urban or suburban environment.

Our greatest fears probably revolve around gangs/thugs and organized crime. One would expect their primary targets to be hospitals and pharmacies where they can steal drugs. If they were smart they would take over a hardware store. That inventory would be worth ten times what they could get for drugs. A hardware store, at least for a period of time, not forever, will be a gold mine in a collapse.

 

Running? With a 50 pound pack on my back? I am not running far or fast lol.

 

I love your post and all that it stands for.

Knowledge is only as good as the initial information, that’s why I want to make absolutely certain that my sources are true and correct. My mantra: Research, research, research!

Just because the same (mis)information is seen in multiple places does not make it true. It could be the same stuff parroted over and over… How can I be sure it is true? If I can’t verify it with trusted sources who have actually tested it, then (circumstances permitting) I want to test it myself by putting it into practice before accepting it as truth.


.

 

people talk about living it....but do they practice things...like how long can you go with/without xyz item. i.e. say you have a certain stocked item...do you actually only use that item off shelf and actually see how long you can go with a stocked item before needing to either make it yourself or figure out a restock...but of course right now we can hit stores for restock. but by doing this we will have time lines to think out i have xyz amount of time to figure out my next move. take soap just as an example...do you know for sure how long you can go with the soap you have stocked?have you made soap before? do you understand it might take time to gather all the goods up to even make soap...i.e. fat might only be available in fall/winter when butchering livestock or harvesting critters...and heres another thing..are you going to use that fat...which is calories to make soap when you need those calories. sure is easier to just stick say 100 bars of soap on a shelf..for me i will use my tallow i render from butchering a steer to make my pan of cornbread with.

carrying water...look at poverty type societies around globe today...they all say same thing...we spend to much time packing water..often hours each morning and evening. you cant lived an advanced prepared life packing water with a yoke around you and 2 buckets.this is for a household not to mention for gardening. every pack water up a hill even though its only 150 feet?2 buckets on a yoke is approx 80# of water..get that to a garden then transfer to a watering can and water plants..now go do it again...then again...then again...then again...then again...tell me how many times you can do it.....not to mention us older folks with injuries. it will take 8 trips just to water my tomatoes alone.its reason i am doing everything i can to get watering set-up right to center or to edge of my large garden area.

or i can use a solar panel without a battery and a little pump and during daylight it can pump water to a 200 gallon livestock trough and come evening i can go and start watering plants from the trough in the garden by only dipping my water cans in to fill ...no packing water. ad a battery to this and its pumping water during night...the dam naysayers oh your battery will die eventually...yep just like everything else theres a limit to its life...including us...i am in it for long haul to last as long as possible and at times it means working smarter not harder.i will use those items till they stop functioning. contrary to popular belief and saying...you can wear the human body out...especially its joints.

blah blah blah.

 

Good post, but ask yourself a more important question. Do you need soap to get clean? I am not talking about after exposure to germs or contaminants, I mean after a hard day of chopping wood and working the garden etc.... Do you need soap to be "clean"? What is the longest you have ever gone without a shower?I know people who take 2-4 showers a day. Is that really necessary? Do you really even NEED one every day? I am not asking for your answers, I am asking so that you might start to reevaluate actual needs instant of wants. Nothing beats a hot shower for making you feel human again, but do you NEED it?

Again, a great point. Unless you use Nickel Iron batteries, your solar panel will outlast your batteries barring accidental damage and the like. So, how do you get that water uphill without carrying it and when your batteries have died? First law of plumbing, water never never goes uphill unless pimped. So, how do you pump it without electricity? Are you prepped in skills, tools and parts for when that happens?

 

this is my real world experience in this area.....gorilla gardening...it might work for some but as a whole it has never ever worked out for me. domestic garden stuff has never survived here in my area...and straight up i done this for years of trials...my whitetail deer eat everything. once i had a patch of potatoes waist high and stalks were double my thumb width at base...it was over in a patch of dogbane and dont you know they ate the plants to within inches of the dirt. only things i can grow are a few natural edibles outside of a secured fence.

i tried asparagus...they mow it down so much during summer that it cant store energy in its roots and just die out.

i get to harvest goods before anyone in my area are even thinking of gardening. i use varieties that i have trialed and tested and done types of techniques to get to work. raised beds...they allow you to access growing medium before its every close to being dry enough to get in a main garden to till or work it because of springs rains and winter run off from snow melt.

bloomsdale longstanding spinach...it can survive(from fall planting with full size plants going into winter) to -15f(not windchill)..i have had it do so twice at that temps.the leaves wont be there but it will have a ratty looking stem and root system will survive and just as soon as it warms enough it will put out leaves to harvest to eat. only problem is you got to watch it as it warms it will try to bolt and go to seed on you..which is a good thing as then you can harvest seeds for next crop. but you gotta keep cutting tops out of ones you harvest from to keep it going.

blah blah again

 

first part...do i need a shower/bath...yes/no....if you are working hard and sweating alot...at least for me...i need at least a spit bath on my private bits and rear end and feet. foot care is important as well as crotch and rear end...ever heard of monkey but powder?....i have lived in alaska in a wall tent in remote work camps and i tell ya...i bathed in 40f ocean to be fresh again for the next 12 hour day...it kept me going. dirty clothes are fine by me..but not a dirty rotten crotch...roflmao....men and women need freshness there !!

do i need soap...no....but..its so cheap and easy to put on a shelf why not...also dont forget all soap is not created equal...fells nafta.

washing clothes....run a load of clothes through a washer without soap...many will be surprised how clean they are.

mud and dirt on my bibs...my work bibs get muddy and it drys hanging on their hook...i use a very stiff brush and by pulling them tight and using brush i can actually get more wear out of them. people use to do this back in the day .i grew up seeing it done by my grandparents.

i can live rough..i can live semi rough..or i can live semi advanced rough.....lol

oh and another good way to get clean...sauna...i built one in alaska and first time i ever done a real honest to god hot sweat it looked like tar running from my skin pores.

my limit so far has been 10 days straight of 12 hour work day in same clothes...chopper pilot wanted to dump me and crew out.....lol....but this was in extreme work conditions in the bush.

 

mtn folks got a cure for dirty carcasses....lol...easy and simple.

 

the panel should still run a 12 volt pump to my understanding without a battery during daylight hours. i am in the design stages of my system for garden.

a pitcher pump should be able to pump in my location.the leathers wear out on them so you need extras. i am looking at finding some old school pump in working order but those things..or what i am looking for is rare. you can move water up hill with a ram pump but my water is coming from a spring/seep or will be as it my creek drys up deeper into summer i go. if creek keeps running i can flow it in with nothing but a pipe or hose via gravity to garden for irrigation...but it never keeps going through summer.

i wish for an underground tank to hold water...but its expensive...sooooo

 

Just spit balling an idea here: How about a mechanical pump set up to be powered by a bicycle that fills a raised cistern which gives you water pressure to handle your needs? For example, let's bury a 55 gallon drum below the surface level of your stream(is that your only water source?). Cut away the center part of the lid, but leave the bung hole. Place a hand cranked rotary pump in the bung hole after affixing a gear to the shaft in place of the hand crank. Assemble a length of chain between the pedal driven gear and the new gear you affixed to the pump. Put a hose to the outlet of the pump and run it to a pipe going up to your cistern. Obviously all the parts would need to be in place, if not assembled, prior to shtf. You could make it a belt drive instead of chain drive, but I don't know if they make belts long enough to go from the shore to your pump, while you can make your chain as long as you wish. Add in some back flow prevention valves and a union in case you need to disassemble for any reason like clean out. With the anti back flow valves, the pipe should stay full so you don't have to expend the energy to refill the pipe everyday.

 

theres all kinds of ways to pump water..ram pump.rife pump,waterwheels etc. etc. etc. one simple one is a treadle pump....

for me i am tapping into a spring...my spring box is going to have a pitless adapter like drilled wells have so i can have buried waterline to garden..out of sight and insulated for winter.this will allow me to have a pump in spring box and pull it easy if need be. i will install a pitcher pump as well for back up if the lift is not to high for it.

 

solar panel and bilge pump...no battery...simple low tech.

 

If you have any significant change in water level such as a dam or waterfall (lets face it, water runs downhill) then a small ram pump running cinstantly can pump water from a stream or river uphill to a buffer tank, reservoir or store tank with no electrical input and almost zero maintenance. It relies solely on the energy created by a large volume of water falling a short distance to pump a much smaller volume of water at much higher pressure to a much higher level.

Just to get this back on topic, I don't know if I'm a prepper or survivalist; I just learn stuff every day and apply what I can to my circumstances.
This is a great thread, I really want to hear more of your invisible gardens. I have done a bit of this but it sounds like you've gone into it much more Griz

 

real world experience....in my pond i had let cattails grow and expand in the thought of it might serve as a food source one day.i was getting a nice stand to point i thought i might need to thin a few out as they were spreading a good bit. well a muskrat showed up and i thought i dont want that here they destroy dams with burrowing in to them and its to costly to do dam repair so i decided to rid myself of it.well i noticed it was eating a few cattails and i thought well i can let it eat a few before i dispatch it.i had several hundred stalks but less than 500 in pond.well i realized i had more than one muskrat and so i removed one and before i could get another but in less than a week dont you know my pond was cleared of cattails. they cleared them of them so much so its been several years 3 possibly 5 since time flys. and dont you know i have not had a single cattail in my pond since.they totally destroyed the patch i had going.
it takes much larger areas of wildness to feed wildlife and humans than many realize.

 

Great thread, not sure what I am,probably neither prepper or survivalist. Last year I planted 50 elderberrys, this year planted 25. Developed patches of artichoke here and there. Run a trapline and eat most of my catch. Harvest whitetail and put it up. Keep chickens for eggs and meat, raise hogs. Plant a garden. Collect wild edibles and medicinals like chaga, boneset, yarrow, balm of Gilead, mullein, ghost pipes, berries and such. Need a ax handle, make a ax handle, need knife, make a knife. On top of all that I am forever student.