What Gun Is Best If You Only Get To Have One

We have not talked about guns lately so...

Part one

If you were going to be on the move bugging out and could only carry one gun with you would it be a rifle, shotgun or handgun?

Each has its strong points and also certain problems. A centerfire rifle has good defensive abilities and is good for large game but is pretty useless for smaller meal sized animals. If you are on the move killing a deer is a waste since you can't deal with that much meat or carry it if you did. Also a rifle requires a certain level of expertise to use. Depending on the action a rifle can offer a pretty impressive threat display which at times could be pretty important. A fight avoided is as good as a fight won without any risk.

A shotgun is a great up close defensive weapon and with slugs has pretty good reach for big game. With shot loads it is an almost sure fire small game getter and doesn't require the precise shot placement of a rifle. Probably it is the best all round for food gathering and maybe even as a weapon. A 12 gauge shotgun throws as many 22 caliber slugs from a #4 buck round with each shot as an AR in 5.56 does when you dumps a 30 round clip. Inside 40 yards if you hit it it goes down. The down side is the simple fact that the ammo weighs a ton if you try to carry more than 50 rounds.

Both the rifle and the shotgun have the disadvantage of not being easily kept at hand constantly as you do other things. In this area a centerfire handgun shines. You can have a handgun on your body almost 24 hours a day. Defensively if you are good with a handgun it is a fairly decent defensive weapon for up close work. Unfortunately in barrel lengths best for carry and combat they are not worth much past 50 yards. They will also have pretty limited use for hunting except to dispatch and animal that you have caught in a trap. The ammo for most handguns is fairly light compared to rifle or especially shotgun rounds



Part two will cover...

What kind of ammo choice is best? Rimfire, Centerfire, Muzzle loaded and what gauge or caliber?

Part three will cover...

What sort of action offers you the best all round advantages when you consider that repairs will be hard to make in the field and replacement parts will be nearly impossible to find.

 

There are not many guns out there that offer the variety of possibilities offered by a musket. I have often thought about the plusses that I could get from a single shot 20 gauge. It can shoot shells or with a breech plug you can also muzzle load it. There are actually three kinds of gunpowder that you can make for muzzle loaders though the Black powder is the best and most powerful. The flint lock is about the only firearm that can be loaded and fired with only naturally occurring elements.

With the laws where you live it is probably the best choice. The introduction of the musket made a big splash because you could train a man to accurately fire it in a matter of days. The only competition before it was the bow and a longbow while an outstanding weapon takes years of practice to gain the proficiency the musket offered the masses. Once the military had introduced people to them the guns replaced the bows for most hunting and military uses. Musketeers replaced the archers in most of the militaries of the world.

For a little while crossbows were big. They could cast a bolt that the armor of the time couldn't stop but a crossbow with that kind of power is not much faster the fire than a musket, probably about as hard to make and the ammunition is even more expensive. The advent of the guns finished off the use of armor.

 

Part two...
What kind of ammo choice is best? Rimfire, Centerfire, Muzzle loaded and what gauge or caliber?

The first thing that you need to consider is exactly what you are going to need your gun to do for you. If you plan on moving into a wilderness area that has large carnivores or even big mean herbivores you definitely want something with some serious stopping power. That means a minimum of a 308 winchester or MORE, a 12 gauge shotgun, or a BIG heavy handgun in one of the major magnum calibers.

If you are in a city and expect to have to fight your way out you probably will want to go with a rifle in a somewhat lighter caliber simply so that you can carry more ammo. I'm not generally a fan of the AR rifles but they are the best answer for this sort of problem.

If on the other hand you live in a more rural area your needs are going to be more defensively and hunting driven need. If you don't have to carry your ammo or expect to need a LOT of it then you will probably be better served with a 30 caliber sized rifle or a shotgun. You can hunt almost anything with a 30 caliber rifle in the 308 class area. Even a 30-30 is a decent round if you aren't needing to shoot over 150 yards for most non dangerous animals. A 5.56 will kill but it isn't a dependable fast stopper.

There is a lot to be said for a good shotgun. It is a dependable game getter. With buckshot and slugs it is a good defensive weapon and will drop anything in ranges of about 50 yards or less. There is also a serious intimidation factor connected with that big hole if it is looking at you!

 

Pump shotgun. And if you have access to multiple barrels, this is a force multiplier.

So I've gotta shotgun with two barrels; it's a Remington 870. One barrel is rifled and has rifle sights. It can shoot Hornady SST shotgun slugs into a group under 3" at 100yrds under poor conditions.

Second barrel is smoothbore with screw-in chokes. What with all the ammo available, you can configure this puppy to do whatever.

Which bore, 12 or 20 ga?! Your pick. I've a preference for the 20 ga. If the shotgun is going to be strictly for home defense and the person shooting it is a man or a woman who is solid or knows what she is about, then go 12 ga. Why do I like the 20, because it doesn't destroy small game meat when using birdshot and because if you hit a human with a 20 ga shotgun slug and it acts like a buffalo rifle, i.e. dead, dead, dead. A 20 ga SST sabot slug is .45 caliber, traveling at 1800 ft/sec, weighing 250 grains. A .45 auto handgun round is 230 grains traveling at half that velocity. Dead is dead.

Escaping the city: If Ruger has finally fixed the problems they had with their Mini-14 and Mini-30, then this is a handy rifle indeed. My preference would be the Mini-30; the 7.62 x 39 ammo shoots through walls and cars better than the 5.56 x 45. For human hunting you gotta have at base minimum an 80 grain bullet. People hide inside cars and behind walls -- must be able to shoot through this stuff.

I like a lever .357 mag. with 16" barrel. The .357 out a carbine tears up jack. Bullets 158 gr and up, shoot through walls and the sides of cars. A rather small satchel will hold 700 rnds of .357 ammo -- it is not prohibitively heavy, I know, I have. Get a good and accurate revolver to go with the rifle, same caliber. Remember to get plenty of speed-loaders. For lighter work, use the .38 Special in your .357. I like adjustable sights on my revolvers -- these CAN be used for hunting small game. My paternal grandfather (God bless his eternal soul) brought home lots of small-game meat for the stew-pot with his .32 long Colt (before that, he carried a 32-20). He' rest the revolver on his driver's car door window sash for better stability. He was good enough of a shot that he made head shots to preserve meat.

https://www.google.com/search?sourc...31k1j0i22i30k1j33i160k1j33i21k1.0.5xUSzitydRs

 

My maternal grand father had a rifled percussion-cappeed .32 cal. muzzle-loader. He was born just after 1900.

Question, does 00 buckshot work as a .32 cal muzzle loading ball? Gotta consider the patch thickness. Most folk used ticking.

 

I am with you Geezer and love my Winchester Trapper in 357 mag. Since we don't have bears and are generally forested here it will do anything that I would need done. Matched with my Ruger Security 6 revolver I am extreemly comfortable that it could handle most of my needs.

Also like you I don't think that you can go wrong with a good pump shotgun with extra barrels. Mine is a Mossberg 500 and I have a barrel with rifle sights, a 18" barrel, and a regular barrel with an old school polychoke on it. For you young folks that is what people used before the advent of choke tubes. It is a thing on the end of the barrel that you can adjust the choke by twisting it causing the end of the barrel to narrow or widen. I have often thought about getting a muzzleloader barrel for it. They were at one time available in 12 ga muzzleloader and 50 caliber rifled muzzleloader. Talk about a do it all weapon. With my three different stocks you could go from a short pistol gripped room clearer to a 12 ga assault weapon or a deer rifle or a upland bird gun in minutes. Over the years I have acquired a full set of non-wood black nylon/plastic/??? stocks and forearms ranging from two types of pistol grips, a pistol grip extending stock and a mostly standard shaped stock. Since I have several Mossberg 500s I guess that is my number one go to defensive weapon.

If I was running though I have to admit that I would give serious thought to a Ruger 10-22 with a companion handgun. Dressed out with extended magazines and with a scope on quick release mounts it would do a lot of things and you could carry a ton of ammo. They even make reloaders for 22 lr now. With careful shot placement I know for a fact that I can drop deer out to about 50 yards with a 22lr and kill a man out to 100 yards with a 22lr. With my 3-9 scope I can shoot groups that you can cover with a silver dollar with my 10-22 at 100 yards. It is a great squirrel and bunny getter and will also do for sitting birds at a pretty long range.

While a 22lr isn't a great stopper for defensive purposes since there is almost no recoil you can put three rounds into a small spot in a flash and if you must have a fast stop head shots will do it real well. Truthfully I don't consider a 22LR loaded with hollow points to be a lot less than an AR-15 shooting FMJ ammo for up close (25 yards/meters) defensive use. Neither has a lot of immediate knock down power unless you hit head or heart.

I like lever actions and own several of them made by all the big three lever action rifle makers in the past plus a Henry 22lr. Winchester Marlin and Savage all made them starting at or before the turn of the century in 1900 and pretty well perfected them. They are made for carrying and are durable weapons.

A bolt action is the best lock up there is and can handle the big powerful rounds that other actions just can't take. They are also rigid and super accurate. There is a reason that up until the advent of automatic weapons the armies of every country in the world was using bolt action weapons. With a bolt action set up right you can hit targets at just insane distances and THAT is the best sort of defence there is. Don't let them get close enough to hurt you. For the big game animals or the big toothy and clawed critters you will probably want a bolt action rifle in a magnum caliber. I'm sort of partial to the 300 winchester mag or the 338 Winchester mag. If you are in Africa you might want bigger but for most anywhere outside of Africa you don't need an elephant gun.

Now for the big debatable action... the semi automatic... It offers you the best in defensive and assaulting weapons. If you expect to have to deal with just hoards of attackers this is what you want. Unfortunately if you are attacked by hoards of people unless you have a hoard of your own to fight with you, you are probably not going to survive. If you choose to go with an AR or AK type weapon you need to be very careful that you don't think that it makes you 7 feet tall and armor plated. All it will take is one 22 lr in your belly to kill you if there isn't a surgeon and hospital handy.

For defence though a rat-a-tat-tat should send any sane person running. Survival isn't a military exercise and I'm a big believer in not getting in gun fights if at all possible. If I do get in one I want to kill my attackers and not just run them off. If they run away all that means is they are going to probably come back and ambush you from a safer distance.

More later I have to go to the store for my wife LOL....

 

As to the .22 rimfire: I do not know how many .22 cal. rifles and handguns I currently own. I'd have to go look in the safes. One thing about the .22 is that one can obtain .22 CB caps and .22 short standard velocity for them -- which is to say quiet ammo when fired. Post SHTF, you do NOT want to be heard gathering meat for the stew-pot. I also have a target pistol that shoots like a rifle (custom grips & precision adjustable sights). I've had multiple Ruger 10/22 rifles, one has a bull barrel and is a tack-driver.

I'm one of the fans of the .22 magnum. I've got'em in bolt and lever (a Henry). They are louder than the .22 LR, however they are a lot less loud than the center fire varmint rounds such as the .223. The .22 magnum is a decent short range varmint rifle -- my kin up in the mountains used them a lot shooting groundhogs across mountain pastures. The tissue damage a .22 mag. hollow point causes is all out of proportion to the size of the cartridge -- freaky nasty. You do NOT want to get hit with a .22 mag hollow point. You have a 40 grain bullet with the energy levels of a 9mm. This small blunt hollow-point explodes when it hits tissue. Note also that you can carry hundreds and hundreds of rounds in an M60 ammo can. I don't currently own a .22 mag handgun; wish I did; need to get me a single action with exchangeable cylinders .22 LR and .22 mag.

Bolt action center fire: I've a couple of minute of angle .308 rifles (one is a modern Scandinavian manufactured puppy), however I'm a total sucker for historic military rifles. For instance, I love my British and Aussie Lee-Enfields. I love the 10-shot magazines and the stripper clips to load them. Their actions are as smooth as glass and lock on closing = rapid follow-up shots. The .303 has proven itself over and over and over again. I see an Enfield in good condition and my eyes light up. The Germans had no love of the Enfield -- and that's a good thing.

 

That was great of Tex to put up that chart. I thought I'd had it fixed in my mind long ago ... apparently not. It's the single O buck that is .32, I'd forgotten that. Remember now.

Had I a life and some time to myself, I'd like to have a percussion cap revolver, however not a large one, just one for fun. Specifically, I like the smaller .36 caliber revolvers. They can get a bit messy when it comes to preventing chain-firing. After seating the ball on the powder load, you gotta use a grease/wax to seal the top of the ball / the front of the chamber; or, a lotta folk use a greased wad between load and bullet or ball. Next, you can seal around the percussion caps; many folk do not do this -- they go with just the grease in the chamber. These old style revolvers can chain fire, but apparently it is a rare thing. Should it happen, it's way past just a bad thing. If you like to fiddle with stuff, these are a blast (pun intended). I've known co-workers who've owned them.

 

For a lot of small game stuff I will shoot shorts or the subsonic loads that you can get now. I have a Ruger target pistol with a 6 7/8" barrel that will shoot as well as most rifles if you shoot it across sandbags. I also am pretty fond of a 9 shot Taurus 94 that has a 5" barrel and is good for bunnies.

The thing is that even a single shot break action rifle or shotgun can do a good job of most things. They tend to force you to do a better job of picking your shots and make you a better hunter. I am rather fond of this type of gun for people that don't have any experience with guns. I nonetheless still like them for the simple reason that they are light and fast on the swing. I have a 410 snake charmer that I carry in the boat a lot and with the triplex defensive rounds it is a pretty good stopper. that is a 44 caliber jacketed hollow point bullet with two 000 buckshot pellets under it.

There is a lot to be said for the simplicity of the old double barrel shotgun. I have two of them and love them both for hunting. One is a 12 ga and the other is a 20 ga. I honestly don't know that I expect to have many problems that two loads of buckshot won't fix. Unlike many I don't think that there are going to be a lot of gangs roaming around attacking people. Stupid gangs are going to stay in the cities looting until it is too late and then they will die in mass of starvation, thirst and most likely diseases like typhoid and such.

The muzzle loaders are well covered by Keith and not really my area of expertise. They have some good points but in places like Texas where there are a lot of other legal choices I would see a muzzle loader as a less practical option.

The last type of gun that I will mention is the airgun. I can easily see it being my primary food getter if I am alone or just with a very small group. Even a simple red ryder BB gun will knock down a lot of birds. A good pellet guns can take things up to racoons and such especially the 22 caliber rifles. The thing about a BB gun is that you can carry thousands of BBs or even 177 cal pellets. I especially like the pump up ones that will shoot BBs or pellets. I have a couple of the nice barrel break spring piston type airguns that will throw a pellet at 1000 fps. They are a lot of fun but weigh nearly as much as a centerfire bolt action rifle. The pump up crossmans don't weigh much at all and do a fine job of bird, squirrel and even bunny shooting. Thy are quiet, accurate, light and fairly inexpensive. I also have an older pump up pistol that will also do a lot of good for birds, frogs and such. It can be fitted with a shoulder stock for even better accuracy.

Whatever you choose, you need to know it inside and out and shoot it enough that it is almost instinctive. That is one of the great things about a 22lr. Cheap ammo makes for a lot of practice. You want to be able to maintain it and hit what you aim at every time. A 22lr that hits its target is a lot better than a 300 winchester magnum that missed. The cost of the ammo is the one big plus that I see for the AR based assault rifles. They are good as long as you don't go crazy with them. they can eat up ammo like you wouldn't believe. I have shot up 500 rounds in an afternoon on a lot of occasions. If you get some good ammo that isn't FMJ it is pretty good for defence and animals up to white tail deer if you place your shots right. Know what your weapon can do and what it isn't good at. Buy the best quality that you can afford and learn how to use it EFFECTIVELY.

Understand that pretty fast after the fall there will be more guns than there are people and if you start out with a rather simple weapon you will have a lot of opportunities to upgrade.

 

my choice i a single shot 12 gauge shotgun or double barrel , and i will tell you why. if i go hunting i can come across any of the following, deer, bear, moose, turkeys, duck, geese, rabbits, wood cocks, partridge, Now each of these require many different loads in a shotgun. slugs for deer, bear and moose . turkey needs bb or better , ducks number 4, geese number 2, rabits number four , partridge number 7 1/2 . But with a single shot i can load up my chest pockets with all of these loads and slap in what ever is required . and fire and get them. You never know what you are going to come across when you go out.

 

There is a LOT good that can be said for the single shot break action shotguns. When I was in the gun business I bought several dozen of the H&R break action 12 ga shotguns. I cut the barrels off to 18 1/2", put sling swivels on them and my wife made black web slings for them. I also got a bunch of those slide on stock bandoliers and after putting them on set them in place with decorative tacks. I sold them with 5 shells in the bandolier as complete home security devices and made a load of money off them. When my daughter moved out and into her own place I sent her off with the last one as a house warming present.

 

H &R 12 gauge is the same one that i have.

 

I'd like to have me a Cousin Bongo Lee-Enfield scout rifle.

https://scoutriflestudy.com/cousin-bongo-lee-enfield-scout/

Like this'n too:

http://www.enfield-rifles.com/303-18-bbl-ballistics_topic5420.html



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I miss the days when one could pick up a decent 7.62 x 54R Nagant (M44 or M38) carbine on the cheap ($150 to $250).

 

I like the Lee Enfield rifle....and own one in .308 caliber. However it is a full sized rifle and heavy...particularly when loaded with 11 to 12 rounds of .308.


With this in mind I decided to get a Mossberg patrol rifle in .308 and mounted a quick disconnect glass set up on it and still have iron sights. It is light and quick and with less recoil than the Ishapore Enfield I own. The Ishapore Enfield is rough on recoil with it's hard aluminum butt plate.

I do like the magazine capacity on the Enfield.....and the ability to change magazines...though Enfield magazines are expensive.


Mossberg seems to have copied this feature of the Enfields with the ability to use a magazine from an M14 rifle or suitable Pro Mag magazines. However...I have chosen to stick with 10 round magazines in my Mossberg Bolt action Patrol rifle as the 20 rounders make the rifle a bit off balance...and heavy too.

The Mossberg is easy on recoil as it has a rubber butt pad on it .

http://www.mossberg.com/category/series/mvp-series/mvp-patrol/

I like a bolt gun....and think the scout rifle concept is a good one and a long time in coming. Jeff Cooper and others were correct in this.



Ballistically ...there is nothing wrong with the .303 calibration. The issue with me is logistics. .303 is not a commonly stocked caliber in many ammunition carriers around here. .308 is commonly carried.

I have a 7.7 mm Japanese Arisaka rifle....and make ammo for it from 30.06 cases. This would not be possible with .303 cases...if I could easily get them.

I have taught myself to also make .308 cases from 30.06 cases...and also to make .243 cases from .30.06 cases and also from .308 cases.

This is not possible with the rimmed .303 case. Hence I have tended to stay away from this calibration...thought ballistically this is very similar on the tables to the 7.7mm Japanese Arisaka.

Logistics can play a part in this decision of calibration ..in ammo availability.


Should I ever acquire a .303 British rifle.....I would tend to stock up on these cases and bullets as I have done for the 7.7 Arisaka I own.

Same thing I have done for my .41 Magnums...put back a lot of cases...and bullets.

Oh..by the way.....the 7.7 MM Japanese Arisaka uses the .303 British bullet in reloading. .311 diameter... and not the .308.
Sort of ironic isn't it??

It is the brass case which is different.

Well....nonetheless.....I like the scout rifle concept.


Thanks,
Watcherchris

 

If I was expecting trouble I would love to have a Saiga 12, 12 gauge

 

The scout rifle concept has always been a good idea and has been approached somewhat by every generation. A carbine is a sort of a scout rifle concept. I really likes the M-1 Carbine and think that it is a better weapon for most applications than the AR-15. Many years ago I had a little 6.5 Carcano Mannlicher carbine that was a great truck gun.
I agree, I also had a Lee Enfield Scout that was pretty nice in this line. Mine didn't have a scope. I had young eyes and didn't need one back then.

 

Lee-Enfield magazines stay on the rifle and are fed by two 5-rnd stripper clips. Military surplus .303 comes in 5 rnd stripper clips.



I found a trove of .303 ammo made in Greece, but got a bit sidetracked on their way to Hong-Kong = non-corrosive, annealed necks, lacquered primers.

 

The 303 British, the 7.62X54R Russian, the 8 X 57mm German Mauser and the old 30-06 Springfield American were and still are great dependable stoppers and came in Rifles that were as dependable as the rounds and of similar approximate power.

The French had a 7.5x 54 in their bolt action Mas. It is a rather awkward rifle. I have one that is in pristine condition. It came with a paper certifying that it had never been shot and only dropped once. The French seldom shot it so I don't know much about its power. The cartridge is about the same size as the ones above.

The Italians made the Mannlicher in a 6.5 x52mm Carcano round It was a little weaker but a good enough stopper. It was "theoretically" what Oswald used to shoot John Kennedy.

 

I've seen the 6.5mm Swedish Mauser in a carbine rifle. It is a very nice rifle. And the 6.5mm can be suitably reloaded with a good range of bullets. I believe that works out to some 26 caliber.
As I recall...the Swedish Crown ....Gustav crown is on the receiver...just forward of the bolt.
This really is a nicely made rifle.

Again ....logistics.

Had I a .303 or 8mm x 57...or even the 6.5 mm....I would tend towards stocking up on brass and other components so as to not run out and not be dependent on the stores for ammo.

Just as I am doing for my .41 Magnums as this calibration is not as common as is the .44 Magnum.

Just as I am doing for my 7.7mm Arisaka...stocking up on 30.06 brass and .311/.312 bullets to fabricate my own rounds.


Thanks,
Orangetom

 

I've done the same thing for my 300 savage, 7.62 x 54R and even my 30-30. My 38, 357 and 9mm have enough ammo to fight several wars.

 

The 6.5 mm is a superior bullet caliber. Bullets in this diameter can have wonderful sectional densities. I had a work friend who was a nut for the 6.5 Swede. Had I been able to find a source of cheap ammo for this, I too would have gone crazy for the Swedish Mauser (it is a model 1895 action; pressure is such that you do not need a '98 action). I never really got into reloading -- I've usually paid my friends to reload for me. Today we have the 6.5 Creedmoor to reach out and touch that which we need touched.

Basically, I only know a trifling about the 6.5 Grendel, so I'll not comment on it. Somebody else will likely know far more about it -- if you do, do inform us.

Back when, I was able to lay my hands on mega-great, non-corrosive .303 Brit ammo for a song. Those days are gone. I saw a short -- and I do mean short -- customized .303 Enfield at a recent gun show. I fell in love with that weapon on sight. He wouldn't sell for any Earth price. Can't say as I blame him.

Handy carbines are a delight to me.

 

Way back when I got my hands on a heavily customized enfield in 303. I'm talking a totally custom stock and double set triggers. The gun was a work of art and love done by someone that was a true craftsman that took their time and paid attention to fit and detail. I got it while I had a table at the Houston gun show for a song from a young man that had inherited it from his Granddad. He wanted a Ruger 10-22 so I went and bought him one and we traded. I sort of wish that I had put it under the table because I sold it at that same gunshow the next day. I made a pile of money on the deal but I still think about that rifle sometimes.

 

If you were going to be on the move bugging out and could only carry one gun with you would it be a rifle, shotgun or handgun?

OK my ten cen,ts worth.
Different people in different locations and situations will need different guns!

For me in my situation I prefer a .22LR bolt action rifle with a straight ten rd mag or three, a threaded barrel so if needed I can source a suppressor, a sling to carry it and a low powered scope with QD mounts so the open sights can be used if needed.
this will do me for most situations short of all out war.

 

One gun that I have sort of jumps to mind as a possible doall weapon. It is super light. accurate enough for hunting and with enough firepower to be pretty good protection from most things that are not dinosaurs or grizzly bears.

I have an older AR-7 and several extended capacity magazines. I also have a totally illegal to put on it a pistol grip. With a pair of 25 round magazines stuck in it it is an evil looking little thing. Put it in its stock and you have a very light gun that you can carry in a backpack. I have it in my truck bag along with 500 rnds of hp ammo.

 

Another odd weapon that could have a lot of good for survival are the various over, under and side by side shotguns and shotgun-rifle combinations. Savage made the old 24c with a 22lr barrel on top of a 410 barrel then in later years made an assortment of guns like this with all sorts of calibers. I always wanted a 24V which could be had in 223 over 20 gauge and 357 mag over 20 gauge. I also have a friend that has a gun that I drool over every time I go over there . It is a drilling that is a double barreled 12 gauge with a 30-06 barrel under them. Talk about a general purpose weapon!!!


Savage is making something like the 24 again but it is different and I'm not sure that it will be as good as the older version. They call it the model 42. I don't think it lasted long but in a 22lr over 20 gauge it might do a lot of things.

 

A lever in .357 is super handy. One can kill deer with the full .357, 158 bullet weight and above. One can also fire standard velocity .38 Special for small game. Mid-range full .38 wad-cutters may cycle also. I'd like to try .38 Colt shorts -- rnd nose bullets may not be safe in the tubular magazine if right up against the primer of the next cartridge.

Henry Arms is now making their lever in .327 Federal magnum -- NOT .357 -- three twenty seven. This round came out so that one could have a small powerful revolver with six shots, not just five. The .327 is substantially more powerful than the .38 Special +P. It pushes near .357 performance via velocity, not bullet weight. Those who have fired it say that it really recoils in SP101 or Smith J-frame small revolvers, therefore many load these with the .32 H & R magnum which is less powerful than the .327 Fed mag, but as powerful as the .38 Special +P (remember, .38s in small revolvers go only 5-shot, not six as can the 32). Ruger makes a small frame single action revolver with 7-shots, long barrel, and adjustable sights.

https://ruger.com/products/newModelSingleSixSingleSeven/models.html

Why a .327 Fed mag out a lever rifle? It will drop a human or a deer in its full loading and still be rather quiet. Think 32-20. And if you wish to use it in super quiet mode, you can fire .32 shorts to put squirrels and rabbits in the pot. My paternal grandfather would fire his .32 Long S&W out his driver window to provide stew-pot meat. I've some .32 Long wadcutters = accurate, killers, and quiet.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog...federal-magnum-curious-caliber-worth-carbine/

 

Ive seen the combination guns with a rifled barrel over a smoothbore shotgun barrel occasionally. While I would love to own one of them it presents a difficulty with the U.K. firearms licensing laws.
Because of this I will stay faithful to my little CZ .22LR.....it's great for small game, it's moderated so it's quiet and the ammunition is light as well as being plentiful.

 

America has this enormous psycho-cancer eating its west coast. It has been named and has come to be called California. Hopefully, its voter population will be severely reduced with the coming tsunamis, earthquakes, and such.

California banned "assault rifles". Their American citizens simply didn't obey. Forget that this was a felony, only something around 14% was the compliance rate. I will admit that you gotta take into consideration that most owners (now felons) are military, ex-military, and off-duty cops. Cops and soldiers don't obey civilian laws. "Whoever owns the guns, makes the rules."

Western governments are no longer valid. Their fiat currencies are digital bits & bytes and ink-stained rag-paper. These anti-Liberty growths need to be tied-off and allowed to strangle to death. The edicts made by the demonic homunculi who serve as their sycophantic operatives should be ignored ... but with intelligence -- i.e. don't get caught. My dear ol'Dad paid-off the leaches.

Bet you've heard of putting precious things in PVC tubing, sealing them very well after dropping in desiccant packs. Where such things are buried, one also buries dozens and dozens of decoys. Stick flattened metal cans several inches under the dirt (putting back the original grass or forest floor) and put such decoys all round and widely spread. If you see unwise people using metal detectors to find & steal that which is yours, I think you will know what to do.

Aren't there some antique repeating rifles in calibers more powerful that .22LR to be legally owned there in England?! What about old varmint rifles? Fix up a couple of them, put them back to firing order. I guess anything in .303 will require 5 feet of paperwork and a prostate exam.

When the SHTF, your military and police will amount to nothing. You'll be on your own. And remember to have a crazy number of fire extinguishers. Your hordes really like to burn stuff. I watched the videos from your 2011 riots.

 

Certainly old Geezer, all sporting calibers are legal here if you have a legitimate reason to own one. The legal difficulty that I mentioned is that shotguns and rifles have different licensing, that is all. My legitimate purpose would have to be rough shooting for food or pest control of squirrels (the rifle for rabbits and the shotgun in .410 or 20guage for squirrels and pigeons

 

The choice for me is easy. If, on the premise is that I can carry only one, I am taking my Patrol Rifle. It is rather special. It's a POF piston driven AR15 platform with a 12.5" Barrel, a Suppressor, and select fire. It's 4" capable at 300 meters, which is very good for a 12.5" carbine and it will allow me to harvest any other guns I may need along the way. I have used this rifle on MANY entries into dope houses and other nasty environments so I know the gun well.

Secondly, I would have 77gr BTHP ammo with me as it carries farther than 55gr FMJ out of this carbine. I can pretty easily carry 10 magazines in addition to the one I have in the rifle for 330 rounds.

Obviously I will harvest pistols and more ammo as I have to move. No, I will not "prey" on innocents...but if anyone shows full frontal stupidity and is a threat, then they will be dealt with and their stuff becomes mine.

 

I WANT IT!! Should be all the reason that a free man that has no criminal record should need to own any weapon. I would guess that of the hundred of thousands of rounds that I have shot only about 5% would be classified as sporting. The rest were shot mostly just for fun, entertainment and practice incase I ever need to defend my family with a gun. Other than a few crows I've never found much in the way of sporting use for a Barrett 50 cal but they are a lot of fun to shoot at things that are a LOOOONG way off.

 

I WANT IT!!

True enough. No man should be at the mercy of his government when it comes to arming himself against crime.

 

I think that in the US we need real gun control. That means that if you commit a felony crime with a gun you go to prison for a long time and are sterilized. When you get out if you are caught with a gun you need to be locked up forever and castrated. THAT would be gun control that actually worked. Most of the crime in the US is the same people doing it over and over.

The ability to buy a gun should be on your driver's license. Take a class and then have all you want. When you mess up that needs to be removed from your license and ANYONE that sells, gives or provides you with a gun is a felon. Selling a gun to someone without first seeing their permit to own a firearm means that you don't need to have guns either.

 

The British system isn't ideal but if you know your way through the application process and have no history of mental instability or criminal convictions (any sentence over 5 years is a total ban) then you can easily get a shotgun certificate. A firearm licence is marginally more difficult. Handguns, automatics and self loading centre fire firearms are heavily restricted though.
The legitimate reason that you give for owning one could be accepted in one part of the country and yet refused in another. Rural counties tend to have easy going firearms policies while city police forces just see the equation guns=crime. However a firearm licence could be granted in one place then used nationally.

 

Since there are almost no evil guns I guess your streets must be totally safe right? No guns must mean no crime. Do you even lock your doors...I don't.

There is only ONE reason that a government takes away guns from honest law abiding citizens. They are going to eventually stop even pretending that you have any rights and don't want you to be able to do a danm thing about it.

 

The original firearms control was Elizebethan preventing anyone approaching witching gunshot of the monarch, the second round of gun control took place just after the end of the First World War because the government feared an armed communist insurrection. Subsequent legislation has taken place after mass shooting events over the years...each time the laws get tighter....Scotland has now started licensing the ownership of air rifles under 12f/lbs muzzle power.

 

So, I guess giving the reason for owning a lever .357 mag rifle as being, "To kill aggressive genetic throw-backs for breaking into my home," would be less than acceptable to government goons.

How about, "Should the government ban my religion and/or begin putting innocent people on trains to be sent to 'work camps', I want to be able to put bullets into the heads of the socialist authorities who are behind such government crimes." Would that be a valid reason to own a scoped rifle?

Our Constitution's 2nd Amendment is there so that government can be kept in its limited place. And yes, citizens actually can do great harm to government via guerilla warfare. Such uprisings require small arms, flammables, means to sabotage, stolen heavy equipment, stolen ... . Small arms are the beginnings, they are the tools of Liberty. And if our government sets looters off against us, we need not fear.

 

LOL LOL LOL.....by Ystranc,

As I keep trying to tell the members here and elsewhere. If you cannot be trusted with a firearm you will never be trusted with a vote.

Now it is air rifles too...and this will wax worse and worse.

Someone is turning London into a world class joke. This too will wax worse and worse until it is a violent circus where chaos rules...and the average London person cannot protect themselves or their property.

Just remember .....that they want this system to come here to America as well.


If you cannot be trusted with a gun you will never be trusted with a vote.


Watcherchris,

Not an Ishmaelite

 

I've had one of those olde AR 7 rifles for years now. Looking at a newer Henry Model of the same.

Also a Savage 24v combination guns in .22 lr over a 20 gauge. I need to go through both of them and recheck the status of them as I have not taken them out of storage in years now


Thanks for reminding me ,

Watcherchris

 

Chris, the legislation to licence sub 12f/pe air rifles is Scottish, it only effects Scotland and has nothing to do with London at all........I just mention this for the sake of accuracy.
The savage combination gun that you mention would make a great squirreling piece. Sounds like it's a usefull low tech small game gun

 

Ystranc,

Yes I understand it is in Scotland. No problem there. London has it's own set of problems which have not yet been allowed to infect the rest of England and the UK without remedy....without an ear. But it is coming.

As far as America is concerned...we would have gone down this path much faster had Hillary Clinton won the election in 2016.

For it is clear, by certain past histories of the two political parties, that they are not the product advertised to the American public.

We too cannot be trusted with a gun or eventually an air gun or blow gun/slingshot. We too cannot be trusted to protect our homes and properties.

We need to be properly and sufficiently "Herded" into complance a is the case with Englishmen. Someone here intends to turn America and Americans into Englishmen....or if you prefer Continentals without a voice in what happens in our country.

They intend, like England and the Continent, to make us take second third and fourth place while having us pay for others to take first place in our own country.

For it is clear to some of us that someone intends to let two legged wildlife run amok across this land while the rest of us remain static and unarmed in place had Hillary won.


And for some of us who still know some history ....that soon enough ....the England of Chaucer, Horatio Nelon, Drake and his Golden Hind,..and yes...even that bulldog Winston Spencer Churchill...will be no more and lost to political correctness.

And this is precisely the path someone wants for us in America...to become of the same "Herd." To be so and properly "Herded." This via social and political correctness.

If you cannot be trusted with a gun....you will never be trusted with a vote. They will rig both marketplaces against the people.


Thanks,
Watcherchris

Not an Ishmaelite

 

It would be a tough choice for me, but of I could only have 1, it would probably be my sig 556. It's accurate and it's reliable. A close second would probably be my x95. VERY good rifle for close range stuff, in and out of vehicles, going through homes, etc, but also has the ability to reach out.

 

Id say a 10in or so ar pistol/SBR

 

I'm an American, I get to have more than one.

OK, so give me a .357 lever with 16" barrel & aperture sights; will hold nine rounds in its tube. Pop off squirrels' heads with the .38 mid-range wadcutter. Drop a hog or deer with a 180-grainer.

 

Wow!!!

I'm getting ready to handle a slew of Uranium 235 fuel cells to be installed into two reactors. I cannot tell you how many but it is more than two.

Do you think my government needs to be concerned with what guns I buy???? Or what calibers???


If you cannot be trusted with a gun....you will never be trusted with a vote. This is the difference in a subject and a citizen ...and someone is trying to make us into subjects here in America.
Common Sense .....which is becoming very uncommon today.....and being replaced with Ishmaelite beliefs of bondage...servitude/PC thinking.


Thanks,
Watcherhris

Not an Ishmaelite