What If Wwiii Happens?

I have always thought about this. I mean, who doesn't? Now that the US and NK are having issues along with Russia and other neighboring countries, seems like such thing is inevitable. It's not that only those two countries will be bombing each other. For sure their allies will step into action thus making things more complicated.

Now that North Korea "vows to obliterate ‘war-thirsty’ America if Trump launches military strike against Kim Jong-un", things will about to HTF sooner or later. (I know we don't want that to happen of course.)

All countries are preparing for such disastrous event if it ever comes. But how about us normal people? We are not even prepared for it and we never will because of the intensity and devastating damage it may cause to us.

 

We are also aware of what's happening in North Korea because Philippines is a close ally of the US. If war breaks out then we can be a possible target. Based on the experience of my parents in the second world war, the safe place is the rural area where the population is small. The best is the mountain as a refuge. Enemy forces tend to attack the cities so the boondocks will be the safest place in times of war.

 

"Finland – AIM 9X Block II Tactical Missiles and AGM-154 Joint Standoff Weapons"

https://www.dsca.mil/press-media/ma...-tactical-missiles-and-agm-154-joint-standoff

"WASHINGTON, November 28, 2022 - The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of Finland of AIM 9X Block II tactical missiles, AGM-154 Joint Stand Off Weapons (JSOW) and related equipment for an estimated cost of $323.3 million. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale today.

"The Government of Finland has requested to buy forty (40) AIM 9X Block II tactical missiles; four (4) AIM 9X Block II tactical guidance units; and forty-eight (48) AGM-154 Joint Stand Off Weapons (JSOW). Also included are Dummy Air Training Missiles (DATM); Captive Air Training Missile (CATM); Captive Flight Vehicles (CFVs); Free Flight Vehicles (FFVs); containers; mission planning; integration support and testing; munitions storage security and training; weapon operational flight program software development; transportation; tools and test equipment; support equipment; spare and repair parts; publications and technical documentation; personnel training and training equipment; U.S. Government and contractor engineering and logistics support services; books and other publications; training; training aids and devices; space parts; support equipment; weapon system software support; U.S. Government and contractor engineering; technical and logistics support services; studies and surveys; missile technical assistance; other technical assistance; and other related elements of program and logistics support. The total estimated cost is $323.3 million."
.

 

HEADLINE NEWS:

"FIVE YEAR OLD THREAD BOUGHT BACK TO LIFE"!!!!!

​

 

.
Please provide the original report from five years ago.
.

 

Arming-up Finland has been on the table for much longer than five years. This time it is going before a U.S. Congress that just might approve of the appropriation. Big difference. Before it was saber-rattling. This time, it could golly well happen.

.

 

Needed a new thread really.

Russia won't start a conventional ground war, not enough troops or equipment for that and if NATO was attacked his air/ground/surface fleet would be smashed. He could piss about cutting deep sea fibre optic cables which would play merry hell with internet comms (he may have tried it out with the Shetland cable 'breaking' last month).

 

Living in denial is not what I do . A Nuclear World War 3 is very much a possibility .

 

Sure its possible but even a handful of strikes on mainland Europe and two or three on the UK and we'd be FUBAR, eight or nine on the USA and it would be the same, we'd be in Mad Max land soon.

A full blown exchange with hundreds or thousands of nukes and that would be the end of all of us.

If your prepped you've done all you can so don't worry about a nuclear WW3, life's too short to waste your time and emotions worrying about it IMO. I'm more concerned about major power cuts for people in the UK this winter; my son is stocked up in the UK with food and kit to be fine and same for me in Spain.

 

I don't know about the other side of the Atlantic, but here in the States, there is a huge segment of the population who would go totally bonkers without the internet. Without their electronic phone links to websites, they'd go Chernobyl melt-down central.

I love looking-up information so easily using the web. I remember my university years living in the library. The volumes of the Index Medicus were physically heavy, especially when carrying three under one arm. First time I programmed a computer was in 1974. Current problem with internet is that it is so policed by the Woke filters. Have to use search engines other than Google.

Sans internet, I've now my own library with numerous books that "I've been meaning to get to". And in this tiny town, they do have a library with those physical book-thingies. Homey knows his way around libraries. Sans electricity, I have my kerosene lanterns (and 5 gallon tanks of kerosene) and my candles (plus stacks of candle-making materials; been using vegetable shortening in my canned candles of late, works fine). If need be, I can read while imagining myself being in the company of untold generations of readers who fed their heads and souls via candlelight. Maybe it won't just be my imagination. I've gotten help from the other side before.

 

Again this is a failure to understand a full fledged prepper . I fear not a Nuclear World War 3 . As a prepper it is sort of like a kid waiting for Christmas . I would enjoy a depopulated planet and with all the conveniences gone along with it . And as for as Lone Wolf 's proclamation no one should expect to survive and should simply stop prepping for such a Mad Max existence does not fit into my personality . Perhaps Lone Wolf is correct and no one will survive , but that will not stop me from prepping and trying until I take that last gasp of air . I enjoy prepping and taking it to the Mad Max level is just more enjoyment I get .

 

Some will survive no matter what. Humans as a species are tuff as hell. Even radiation only would kill most but not all. In the evolutionary sense it would be about the best thing that could happen. For the last hundred years humanity in most places has been DEevolving to a less capable life form. Humanity started to die as soon as totally dependable birth control became available. The smartest and best have fewer kids and the lazy stupid have kids in bunches. They aren't going to support them so why not? In the US more kids means more welfare goodies. From what I have read humanitys future will be in the East and nolonger out of the west. Most of those places don't tolerate the stupidity and lazyness that we encourage.

 

"The smartest and best have fewer kids and the lazy stupid have kids in bunches."

down-breeding

And humans will survive a nuclear holocaust. Most all survivors will be in the Southern Hemisphere. China has threatened Australia with nuclear warheads should it support the U.S. in any military action to protect Taiwan from being assimilated. However, China could use its high-end tactical nukes to take Australia out -- no need to waste strategic weaponry. Such an attack on Australia wouldn't pose much of a fallout threat to South America. And, wind patterns do not allow much northern air to cross the equator into the southern hemisphere. The Northern hemisphere would be kaput, tot, fin.

.

 

Playing arm chair General . I don't think any country would want to totally destroy its opponent to only lose the spoils of war . The only way a country would be devastated to the point of being not occupiable due to radiation is if the opponents can't stop launching Nukes at each other due to continues retaliation strikes . The goal will be to conquer not to totally destroy to the point of being unusable . Thus a well prepared prepper situated in a well chosen location , living the life of self-sufficiency has a reasonable chance of survival . -- Ridiculous I find some that think somehow that retirement check will still be coming and that is part of their self-sufficient illusion . Even if it did what could they possibly be thinking would be available for purchase ?

 

'Full fledged prepper" Don't take yourself so seriously . Prepping is just that, preparing for times when things change from minor events like short term power loss through to full time power outage et al, having food and a way long term to cook it, outdoor survival skills, navigation skills, first aid skills, hobbies you enjoy on an everyday basis but would fit nicely into a SHTF basis, reference materials, tools and the list goes on but these are simply 'things' to acquire, a big 'to do' list if you like and not some noble learned warrior lifestyle...preppers are not some Obi-Wan-theprepper roaming a desolute post nuke landscape.

I 'prep' , phase one of my solar setup is working, the ham shack is off grid even in the winter months, phase two I've bought forward a year and am waiting on local planning permission to take most of the house offgrid by fitting roof panels, I'm working (slowly) at gaining my Spanish firearms license. Next year I'm going geo-thermal heating if I can get the grant I've applied for (I'll need to save for two years if not)...I am prepping but I sure as hell will not allow all my focus to just spend all my energy on prepping; I enjoy life too much for that to happen, there is more to life than prepping IMO.

Hope your all healthy and your festive plans work out well. I'm off duty xmas and new year, my brother, his wife and kids arrive 27th for their first visit and my son is here for a month from 16th so I really looking forward to my first real family xmas in some years.

Stay safe folks...winter is coming

 

Prepping is or should be a compromise. If you fail to LIVE every day and enjoy it because you are prepping for a future that MIGHT come to pass you are missing the point of prepping. Prepping should be an effort to provide a LIFE worth living even after some sort of collapse. Just surviving isn't always enough. I always included things in my kits that would provide some sort of entertainment. I especially liked the pure plastic playing cards that were not damaged by getting them wet. Dominos, dice, and other tile based game pieces were also nice to have.

In a world without TVs or radios, or even things like record or tape players the ability to make your own music will be priceless. I like the harmonica myself. Stringed instruments are nice but are sort of fragile. A harmonica is a quiet sort of music generally and fits comfortably in a pocket. As long as my house stays inhabitable i will at least have my library. I read a LOT and have thousands of books both fiction and referance books.

Added later...

People need a lot of things but in my case I have made an effort to focus more on knowledge than just the things that most preppers gather nd hoard. I old arts and skills have been ignored for so long that in the event of a colapse of our power based civilization millions of people are going to die and starve to death simply because they don't have a clue about what to eat and how to grow it. A great majority of what we eat today is not based on something that can be grown well on a small scale. Wheat is a good example. I will be growing corn. Corn can be harvested at several stages and provive food both as fresh food and later dried and stored foods. Three sisters gardens are a good example of how different plants can be grown together.

 

Where I live, once the big city urban people starve to death or get killed trying to FORCE the country people to feed and support them, I will be quite comfortable. i can fish and hunt within easy walking distance and have plenty of land to put in a substantial garden to supliment the meat and fish that will be pretty easy to find and kill.

Even now there is a lot of friction between the people tht LIVE here and the city people that show up on the weekends. They are noisy, demanding and in general just don't fit in. To them this is a party place where they blast all over the place in their boats and make enough noise to wake the dead and KEEP them awake all night. I am fortunate that I live off the beaten track and over a half mile from the boat launch.

The friends that live in the more weekend areas really hate the week ends in the spring and summer. The city people show up and to them this is a visiting place and to the people that live there it is home.

 

My progeny have become preppers. That's what is important to me.

If I go out in a blaze of glory, that'll be just fine with me!

 

Going out with a BLAST would be hard to beat. I think it has to do with our age Old Geezer. I honestly never expected to make it to this age. Going out with the blood of an enemy on my hands would be a great way to go! I am NOT someone that a punk would want to try and jack up.

 

Especially if while taking-out dangerous people.

Ask any cop. They not only know the paroled felons who are going to be the re-offenders, they also know the ones who are most likely to kill.

If I could only get a few of those, before they put me in the dirt, then my death as an old man would prevent the deaths of young and decent people.

The following crime is burned in my brain. This murder happened 15 years ago, but it still infuriates me. There can be no forgiveness for this sort of sub-human savagery:

https://the-mystique.medium.com/knoxville-couple-cruelly-raped-and-murdered-d56faad0f4d5
.
.

 

My wife worked for 25 years in the Texas prison system. One thing that she became well aware of is that MANY of the inmates look at the prison sytem is almost like their home.
It is sad that for a lot of them that is about the only dependable thing in their life and they look a paroling out almostlike a vacation. They know that they are going to be back...most of them know that it is not going to be long either. They don't have any of the skills that allow them to function in the free world.

 

I had told myself that I wouldn't post anymore on this forum as I appeared to only make angry the deniers and inadequately prepared . However the link might provide some help to someone that doesn't post . This link is only suitable for those able to face the SHTF we are now caught up in .

 

The book On The Beach (Neville Shute) is a remarkable book and the film is superb. Set in Australia post WW3 it shows life ending some months after the Northern Hemisphere.

Free (and legal) to watch online or click the download button

https://archive.org/details/on-the-beach

 

"Nuclear war is unlikely to cause human extinction"

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/sT6NxFxso6Z9xjS7o/nuclear-war-is-unlikely-to-cause-human-extinction

"A number of people have claimed that a full-scale nuclear war is likely to cause human extinction. I have investigated this issue in depth and concluded that even a full scale nuclear exchange is unlikely (<1%) to cause human extinction.

"By a full-scale war, I mean a nuclear exchange between major world powers, such as the US, Russia, and China, using the complete arsenals of each country. The total number of warheads today (14,000) is significantly smaller than during the height of the cold war (70,000). While extinction from nuclear war is unlikely today, it may become more likely if significantly more warheads are deployed or if designs of weapons change significantly.

"There are three potential mechanisms of human extinction from nuclear war:

"1) Kinetic destruction

"2) Radiation

"3) Climate alteration

"Only 3) is remotely plausible with existing weapons, but let's go through them all.

...

"3) Climate alteration

"The bulk of the risk of human extinction from nuclear weapons come from risks of catastrophic climate change, nuclear winter, due to secondary effects from nuclear detonations. However, even in most full-scale nuclear exchange scenarios, the resulting climate effects are unlikely to cause human extinction.

"Reasons for this:

"a) Under scenarios where a severe nuclear winter occurs as described by Robock et al, some human populations would likely survive.
b) The Robock group’s models are probably overestimating the risk
c) Nuclear war planners are aware of nuclear winter risks and can incorporate these risks into their targeting plans

"Before diving into each subject, it’s worth understanding the background of nuclear winter research. In the 1980s a group of atmospheric scientists proposed the hypothesis that a nuclear war would result in massive firestorms in burning cities, which would loft particles high into the atmosphere and cause catastrophic cooling that would last for years. Many found it alarming that such an effect could be possible and go unnoticed for decades while the risk existed. Some scientists also thought the proposed effect was too strong, or unlikely to occur at all. Until a few years ago, if you looked only at peer reviewed literature you would only find papers forecasting severe nuclear winter effects in the event of a nuclear war. Understandably, many people assumed that this was the scientific consensus. Unfortunately, this misrepresented the scientific community’s state of uncertainty about the risks of nuclear war. There have only ever been a small numbers of papers published about this topic (<15 probably), mostly from one group of researchers, despite the topic being one of existential importance.

"I’m very glad Robock, Toon, and others have spent much of their careers studying nuclear winter effects, and their models are useful in estimating potential climate change caused by nuclear war. However, I’ve become less convinced over time the Robock model is largely correct. See section B below for why I’ve changed my mind. However, I’m quite uncertain about the probability of strong cooling effects from nuclear war, and am still quite concerned about the potential for severe cooling, even if the risk of extinction from such events is small.

"A: Under scenarios where a severe nuclear winter occurs as described by Robock et al, some human populations would likely survive.

"The latest and most detailed model of potential cooling effects from a fullscale nuclear exchange comes from, Robock et al., “Nuclear winter revisited with a modern climate model and current nuclear arsenals: Still catastrophic consequences” found here.

...


"B: The Robock group’s models are probably overestimating the risk

"The nuclear winter model at its simplest: Nuclear detonations → Fires in cities → Firestorms in cities → Lofted black carbon into the upper atmosphere → black carbon persists in upper atmosphere, reflecting sunlight and causes massive cooling

"Each step is required in order for the effect to occur. If nuclear war causes massive fires in cities but does not lead to firestorms that loft particles, then no long term cooling is going to occur. Some of these steps are easier to model than others. Based on my reading of the literature, the greatest uncertainties involve the dynamics of cities burning after a nuclear attack, and whether the conditions would produce firestorms sufficient to loft large numbers of particles high enough in the atmosphere to persist for years.

...


"C: Nuclear war planners are aware of nuclear winter risks and can incorporate these risks into their targeting plans

"A very simple way to reduce risks from nuclear winter is to refrain from targeting cities with nuclear weapons. The proposed mechanism behind nuclear winter results from cities burning, not ground bursts on military targets. I’ve spoken with some of the officials in the US defense establishment responsible for nuclear war planning, and they’re well aware of the potential risks from nuclear winter. Of course, being aware of the risks does not guarantee they will have reasoned about the risks well, or have engaged in good risk management practices. However, the fact that this risk is well publicized makes it more likely that nuclear war planners will take steps to minimize blowback risk from climate effects.

"Conclusion

"This post discussed the three plausible mechanisms of human extinction caused by nuclear weapons. The fact that one of these mechanisms, nuclear winter, wasn’t characterized until the 1980s, is a good reminder of the possibility of unknown unknowns. While nuclear tests provided information about the effects of these weapons, the test environments were significantly different than war environments. Large model uncertainties remain. Given that the greatest existential threat from nuclear war appears to be from climate impacts, it would be great to see more researchers study the climate effects from nuclear war and the resilience capacity of different human groups.

"There appear to be several interventions possible for reducing existential risk from nuclear war. At the policy level, a commitment from the largest nuclear powers to refrain from targeting the majority of cities would reduce risk of accidental omnicide. Improving the maximum resilience capacity of human populations best positioned to survive a nuclear winter would also make humanity less vulnerable to nuclear winter, and could also protect against other existential threats.

"Further reading ..."
-----------------------------------------------------------

Old Geezer:

As always when I quote some article, it is my hope that the reader will read the entire article. I only include salient paragraphs.

I'd like to make the point that during a nuclear war, it is the primary goal of each military to disable the enemy's ability to retaliate, thus all primary targets are military. Delivery systems and resupply are primary targets. The next level of targeting looks to take-out national infrastructure. Taking out cities is only a tertiary goal. Administrative targets such as Washington D.C. will be destroyed. Besides, why waste nukes on the cities?! After a nuclear exchange, city dwellers are done-for anyway. EMP is going to fry electrical grids. The only civilian targets to be hit are those who provide support to military facilities/bases and intellectual support to the military (certain universities will be hit due to their research, physics, biological warfare capabilities, ...). Here's an interesting example: Des Moines Iowa is a target. Used to be that it was an airbase for F-16s, but now it is a hub for the control of military drones (Reaper drones), so it will be hit.

The Southern Hemisphere wouldn't get much fallout, however global cooling would of course reach south.
.

 

That's a load off my mind, we going to survive and everything is hunky dory...I'll sleep well have read the above post

 

Humanity, like it or not, will continue. The Origin wishes to observe His own self.

A Prophet once said that the Origin will continue to create sentient beings even if He (exalted above all/any definitions) must raise up a "new generation". ALL religions say this in one form or another.

Life is hard. So it goes. This is a plane of testing. Gold is proven by fire -- the dross rises to the top and is scraped off.

Evolution is, quite frankly, a horrid task, yet ... What can I say?! This is The Will. Therefore, it will be made manifest.

The Laws actually are not tests. In the final analysis, these "mandates" are actually those things which bring us health and happiness. It is our Creator's Will that we be happy. This would be entirely possible if we set our egos to the side and lived with humility and peace.

"What profiteth a man to gain the whole world and lose his own soul."
.

 

I've been involved nd planning for a major collapse of our culture for 50 years. I'm rather suprised and pleased that we have avoided the pit falls that I thought at one time were unavoidable.

When you reward trash to breed like rats and refuse to punish destructive behavior I thought that this was going to eat us up. I think that what I didn't take into propper account was just how lazy and stupid the trash of our nation is. As long as we give them enough money to let them stay adicted and then feed their kids at school they are content. Personally I think we should just cut the corner and PROVIDE them with all the drugs that they want and let them do it until it kills them.

We are paying for their drugs now. They are going to rob, steal and sell drugs until someone kills them. You can lock them up in prison and the will not be addicted physically when they get out but they RUN right back to it as soon as they are out. They in general are NEVER going to work. to them its stupid to work for what they considder nickles an dimes when they know how much they make selling drugs. Unfortunatly for them if they get their hands on it they are going to use it. Unfortunat;y for the rest of us they very seldom OD and die once they are junkies. They develop a tolerance. The ones that die are usually either newbies that don't know that they can't handle as much as an old junky or they are the ones that have hit bottom and are in such bad shape that it doesn't take a lot to kill them.

I had a "friend" I grew up with him that did that. He basically stopped eating except just ennough to survive. He bought his dope first and only ate if he had any money left or if someone else fed him. He was in his thirties when he caught the flu and was dead in days. They had him in the hospital for three days and couldn't save him. I'm not sure that just the flu was what got him. He was dead broke and in withdrawal when he went down. He was 6' tall and I doubt he weighed 150 pounds. He was a big 200 pound athlete in highschool. There was no fat on him!! When he stopped eating his body started eating itself I guess.

I knew a lot of druggies and they liked to blame their problems on being adicted once they had been to jail and had their adiction rubbed in their face when they had horrific withdrawal. BUT as soon as they got out they were on it again. They can't hold a job so they support their habbit by eight selling drugs or robbing people that do work and have any money. They usually start with their familly and then their friends. They don't have any friends for long that aren't junkies just like them.

About half of the guys that I grew up with went down that road and a couple of my cousins went there. About half of them didn't live to see their 40s and most that didn't get totaly clean, died before they were 50.

I smoked a lot of pot but I would beat you to death if you came at me with a needle. I had NO sense of humor about that. When the needles came out I LEFT! I wasn't going to be there when they ODed. PERIOD!

When my daughter was born I vowed that she would never see me either drink or do drugs until she was grown. LOL, She grew up and left home. She buzzed by one evening when my wife and I were in the pool. We had been there for most of the afternoon and there were beer bottles all the way around the pool. She freaked out!!! I don't drink often but when I do I'm GOING to get soused! My wife is German and she loves her beer but doesn't drink alone. She was quite happy to drink with me.

 

Mankind has survived ice ages. In some ways I'm not sure that anything that killed the stupid and weak would not be good for us. We are allowing the trash of our species to out breed those that are worthwhile right now. I just hope that there will be enough decent humans left if things ever go down. The trash is going to imediatly start killing anyone that has anything that they want until those that are worthwhile start killing them and wiping them out in MASS.

I will put up a NO TRESPASSING sign and will shoot on sight anyone that jumps my fence. My garden will be a temptation that will no doubt kill several. Three big dogs will tell me that their dinner in on the run.

 

I honestly don't believe that the results of a war that includes the use of nukes will be an Earth ending thing like it is made to seem. Mankind survived periods of glaciation and also times when volcanoes went postal and blew out an unimaginable amount of crud into the atmosphere.

Mankind is tuff!! We are one of the most adaptable species there has ever been. A LOT of people will die for no real reason. They will sit and wait for things to settle down and the "government" to come and take care of them. when it doesn't happen they will die...no great loss to humanity. We have allowed WAY to many weak, stupid and lazy people breed out of control. Eventually that is going to bite us in the butt!!

Those that are meant to survive will adapt FAST. That means that if you show up at their place demanding to be fed and taken care of you will probably just get shot. I'm not going to warn or threaten anyone I will tell them once that I can't help them and then kill them if they get pushy or insistant. As far as I'm concerned they are just walking dog food. No mercy!

If someone has skills and some things of value I might offer them an opertunity to stay but if they push I will drop them without warning. If you argue with them and run them off they will or at least MAY just shoot you in the back and take what they want. In that sort of future people will learn maners or get KILLED early on. Don't threaten anyone. Be nice and if told to go, smile, thank them for their time, and LEAVE. If they threaten me they won't get to leave. I'll bury most of them.

 

My problem is that I don't have a lot of faith in there being many "nice" people around for long if the balloon goes up. In the past when things got tuff it seemed to bring out the worst in a lot of people. Take away the laws and police and the criminal element is going to become monsters. You have something they want they are just going to take it and kill you if you don't happily give it to them.

If you want to survive you will need to be come almost as deadly as they are and never let someone threaten you and survive. I will put a bell on my gate and a sign that tells people to ring the bell and wait. If you just come on in you will die. If someone goees out to talk to them you can bet that someone is looking at them through a scope and one wrong move and they will be dead.

 

LW you need to get out and meet people, the overwhelming majority of people are good people, nice people.

 

Your older but you've not served, not seen combat, not seen death and not traveled all over the world experiencing first hand different cultures...I have and in all those theaters I've found good people to be the majority.