What kind of firearms??

Modern blackpowder guns are no joke, easy to maintain, easy to get and keep lots of ammo, highly reliable and accurate.

 

In the UK the .308 round has become a lot rarer since licensing authorities prefer to grant licences for .223,.243 or .270.
It's important to differentiate since .223 isn't quite the same as 5.56 NATO and you should avoid using 5.56 in a civilian .223 as the NATO round has a slightly different shoulder and creates 30% higher pressure.

 

As others have said, there is no best. I can give you the criteria I used in selecting a carry pistol:

• Must be able to be carried safely in "Condition One" with a round in the chamber.
• Must be able to be fired from a draw without having to perform any additional steps beyond pulling the trigger.
• Must have a good holster available for it with positive retention as a plus since I carry outside the waist. Passive rentetion is a requirement.
• Must be amenable to left-handed usage.
• Must be in a common, proven caliber with readily available supply and factory available personal defense rounds.

To that end, my primary pistol is a Sig P220 in .45ACP. It meets up with my requirements per above as follows:

• It's a Double Action/Single Action (DA/SA) design. While it has an external hammer, it has a decocker that allows the hammer to be dropped safely and place the pistol in DA mode. No fear of a hammer snag or need to cock to shoot.
• It has no external safeties. Point and pull.
• The magazine release, while on the left side, can be hit easily with my index finger allowing the magazine to drop away.
• Molded holsters with passive and active retention are available and available for left-handed use. Mine is a Blackhawk. Additional magazines are carried in a separate molded carrier.
• .45ACP has a long history of proven usage. Police departments carry versions of this pistol and rounds like Federal HydraShok 230gr hollow points are standard department issue in many places.

While not for everyone, I prefer the heavy, full frame pistol. Having the gun "print" is the only issue I ever had and it wasn't a huge deal for me anyway with my build and height. But it is a gun I am comfortable with, can shoot well, have muscle memory developed for it and while 8+1 rounds doesn't seem like a lot, those big .45 caliber rounds are quite effective.

Very much a personal preference thing. Carry the gun you're comfortable with, comfortable carrying, know like the back of your hand and can shoot well.

 

Handguns are a somewhat different sort of thing than either rifles or shotguns. The reason that I say this is because the in survival use a handgun is a combat piece for situations that are unexpected. If you expect trouble you should have better than a handgun. The advantage of a handgun is that you can and should have it on or near you 24 hours a day. Since it will come into use suddenly it needs to be like an extension of your are and as natural as pointing your finger at something. You won't always have the time to assume a proper firing position or achieve as perfect sight picture.

This means that the gun needs to fit YOU as perfectly as possible and fire a round that while you want it to have as good a stopping power as possible doesn't overpower you making second shots hard. Each person is different and your body size doesn't seem to be a real factor. I am a big boy BUT I have medium sized to smaller hands and my trigger finger is missing about half of the last joint. Recoil doesn't seem to matter to me. It must run in my familly because my daughter was shooting magnum and big bore handguns that would make a man flinch when she was 9 years old. I'm talking about Thompson Center single shot handguns in things like a 35 Remington rifle round. She loves the smaller shorter barrel 44 magnums.

I just am not comfortable with any of these fat handles high capacity pistols that are common now. They don't point naturally in my hand. I love the S&W K, L and N framed revolvers and the Ruger revolvers chambered in 357 mag, 44 special, 45 long colt, 45 ACP, 41 mag and 44 mag. I can run through a hogans ally firing and stuffing in speed loaders without ever consciously seeing my sights. I LOOK at my target hard and my hands shoot what I'm looking at. In automatics the old 1911 Colt is king but I carry a Ruger LC9s Pro concealed. If I shoot someone in the head they will fall down so even the 9mm with good hollow point rounds works fine for me.

The revolvers are the result of hundreds of thousands of rounds fired but the Colt 1911 and that Ruger LC9s Pro both point naturally for my hands. At one time it wasn't unusual for me to fire 250 to 500 rounds a week. I like the Pro feature on the little Ruger because it means that it will fire even when there is no magazine in the gun. If I fire 6 or 7 rounds and if there is a pause I can drop and pop in another magazine and not be disarmed while I do it.

A person is better off with a 22 lr that they are comfortable and deadly with than a 44 magnum canon that they are not comfortable shooting. A man or woman's handgun is as personal as picking a mate and should be done about as carefully after spending some serious time with several to see what best matches your needs.

 

I bet I've said this too many times, but I'm getting old, and here I go again. Handy survival weapons:

Pump shotgun with extra barrels. Smooth short barrel is good for launching buckshot and standard slugs like the Brenneke. A good ribbed barrel with screw-in chokes gets you your birds and small game. A rifled barrel coupled with sabot-type slugs gets you a deer rifle out of a shotgun -- last month I sighted in one of these and got a 3" group at 100 yards with open sights (my shooting eye is 3-score year plus and has had a cataract removed, plus my Rx doesn't quite kill all of the astigmatism).

In a shotgun, the 12-ga is a better killer; however inside a house, a 20 gauge 3" #2 buckshot or shotgun slugs is a cannon -- meaner than a .44 mag. Note that the 20 does not vaporize small game. The 20 sabot slug out of a rifled barrel gives you an accurate 250 grain projectile with a muzzle velocity of 1800 ft / sec. Deer hunters across America swear by this 20 ga load.

Back to small game, this is where I pick up the shotgun, even though I'm a rifleman.

Sitting birds and squirrels needing to be taken without anyone hearing = accurate air rifle. Buy the best.

I like a bolt in .308. I've got two MOA rifles in this caliber. In a survival meat-gathering situation, these will guarantee head-shots / neck-spine shots. No tracking. No ruined meat.

For knock'about rifles, I like surplus .303 Enfields and 7.62 Nagants. I LOVE the slick actions of the Enfields -- in decades past soldiers issued these have gotten so good as to be the equivalent of having been armed with semi-autos. I have to polish chambers to get the Nagants to slick-up for rapid repeat shots.

I like carbine combos such as the .357 lever w/16" barrel and a revolver companion. Others like the combo in .44 mag, .45 Long Colt, .44-40, 38-40, ...

A survival handgun must be powerful and it must be accurate. The word is "survival", after all. In a handgun, truth be told, I'm looking for a rifle. Rifles do what needs to get done. I was, am, and continue my practice so as to be a rifleman.

 

Danm Geezer your post is like you looked into my gun case. I have a Mossberg actually three of them. But my one set is exaxctly what you said. I have an 18.5" barrel, a 22" slug barrel and a longer barrel with an old polly choke on it. When I got into this they didn't do choke tubes. Then you would notice that I have a much used and loved 357 mag revolver pairs with a Winchester Trapper in 357 mag.

With the assortment of loads that I had the 12 gauge is an almost do anything weapon. Along with all of the various other things I have a ch of mini shells that are only 1.5" long. It makes the 12 ga like a 410. I have also considered getting a muzzle loader barrel for the Mossberg 500.

Most of my guns are paired. I paired a 9 shot Taurus revolver to a Henry lever action 22lr . and paired a Ruger 10-22 with a Ruger auto pistol. There is just a lot to be said for having both a handgun and rifle shooting the same round. To me the 357 mag and the 44 mag are especially good for this because they also have a light load companion round in the 38 special and the 44 special.

If money was no object I think that a 1928 Thompson 45 with a Colt 1911 45 would be hard to beat in urban warfare. I've considered that oh so very ugly Hi-Point carbine in 45 for this reason. Let me tell you from experience, they are butt ugly but shoot amazingly well and with their straight blow back action are very dependable.

If I was real short on money I would give those Hi-Points a good look. As far as bang for the bucks there just isn't anything even close out there. A automatic pistol that is dependable for well under 200 bucks that comes with a life time warenty just is hard to beat. I got one because I have a case or two of 9mm machine gun ammo that will beat a plastic frames handgun to death. The Hi-Point loves them. I comes as a +p rate pistol I am not afraid to go to the +P+. I swear though, you want to make it wear a paper bag in the holster it is so ugly.

 

It's just that we know firearms and have common sense.

Our grandfather's and great-grandfather's generations kept rifle / handgun combos in the same caliber -- it made sense and ammo wasn't cheap back then. My Pap (born in early 1890's & my best buddy when I was a child) liked 32-20 as a caliber. He was poor and when out driving would do head shots on rabbits for the stew pot that night. He mounted a spotlight on the driver's door of any car he owned. There's a local outdoors shop that has an old pump rifle in 32-20 and had I the dough, that puppy would be mine right about now.

Browning knew that people wanted to swap barrels for different types of hunts, thus his quick disconnect barrel designs.

Hi-Point has their carbine in .45. Kel-Tech does NOT it would appear -- just 9mm and .40 S&W. Kel-Tech doesn't lock back on empty magazine either. I don't know much about the Hi-Point. A longer barrel gives the .45 Auto decent extra speed. A longer extra barrel helps a 9mm, but not by a huge amount -- gets it up in the lower range of a .357. Ammo that is +P+ in 9mm had its cases deformed by one carbine I used to own. I mean really deformed / scrunched brass. If one had a 3-shot burst in 9mm, maybe that would provide a soldier or a cop some effectiveness in house-clearing with this medium caliber.

I like the .22 mag caliber. It's a short range varmint rifle up in mountain pastures; groundhog burrows break the legs of cattle. When I was young, I hunted with mountain kin. Groundhog meat is way too gamey for me. Lotta people use the .22 mag for poaching (deer head shots) and killing feral dogs. The .22 mag cartridge doesn't look like it would be that powerful, but oh holy crap does it do horrific tissue damage! Used it, seen what it will do -- absulutely SHOULD NOT be used on small game else the meat is ruined. I would be absolutely terrified if someone were coming after me with a .22 mag rifle -- just shoot me and kill me, don't mutilate me inside and leave me to die. It is used for poaching because it just is nowhere near as loud as a centerfire rifle, but it will crater a deer's skull and will bust spinal vertebrae, no problem. Venison on a poor man's table. Deep South, they kill gators with it. The .22 mag. is certainly no long distance number, but then no one expects it to be.

I've got a Henry lever in .22 mag. -- cutest thing on Earth. My wife loved it at first sight. Impulse buy. I have her a .22 mag pump also. Put a laser on the lever -- just point and shoot if feral dog is the trouble. We had a rabid dog running around in circles in our driveway where we used to live & I wasn't at home that day. Scared the dickens outa me when she told me that story.

 

I have to admit that I have a bit of an addiction to lever action rifles and quite a few of them. They were sort of the assault rifles of their time. Some of them, made at the turn of the century were massively ahead of their time. They are still, in my opinion excellent weapons and even Jeff Cooper used an old Winchester to make the point that machine guns are poor killers. He took a bunch of writers out and let each one run a 30 round mag at 6 mane sized targets at about 50 years. They did the hose type of thing and just swept the spread out targets. The average among the group was one kill three wounded and 2 untouched. At 600 rpm an M16 runs out a 30 rnd mag in about 3 second. After they had all done their thing he picked up an old Winchester and in about 6 seconds put a hole in the head of each target.

For most people, not having the option of yanking the trigger over and over, much less going full auto, will make them a lot more deadly. A soldier is heavily trained and had it pounded into him to aim and fife in short bursts, none the less the number of rounds fired per confirmed kill has gone from bad to wildly insane. Some statistics that I have read recently say that in Iraq the number was well into SIX figures!!! I read one that said it hit 250,000 per confirmed insurgent but I have a hard time believing that. In Vietnam the official numbers that were probably way low ate 3000 per kill the government pulled full auto off the M-16 and replaced it with 3 round burst.

My point here is that a survivalist just doesn't have the endless supplies to go rat-a-tat- tat endlessly. You take an untrained civilian and scare the crap out of him and he will empty every magazine he has in just a few minutes. You start throwing down a couple of hundred rounds with every engagement and after the first week you only have a club because you are out of ammo. I by the grace of god an a 56 chevy am not a veteran. I was on my way to enlist when my 56 Chevy blew the motor so I came home instead and rebuilt the engine while my friends went on and enlisted in the buddy plan. I am so glad that I didn't go and get my ass blown off for NOTHING.

I have received some covert training though. I was very active in various militias back in my young and crazy days. I have worked as a gunsmith and had a federal firearms license. I also went through my assault rifle phase. The fact is that I tried to carry enough ammo to last for a reasonable amount of time and realized that what works for an army that has three people resupplying you for every actual warrior just didn't work for a militia or a small group of survivalists.

When I pulled back from the assault rifles and started looking for alternatives I ended up looking at hunting rifles and shotguns. I will tell you this if I have a good hunting rifle and a shotgun a person with an assault weapon is at a disadvantage at all ranges. At ranges out to past 300 yards I don't need but one shot and at ranges of less than 50 I will be dumping the same number of 22 caliber bullets as an M16 with each pull of the trigger. Number 4 buck in 12 gauge has 30 22 caliber pellets in each shell. About the only place where an assault rifle has a big advantage is in some sort of bonzi charge where your only hope is to put enough lead in the air to keep your enemy's head down and keep them from shooting and killing you.

Probably because I have always liked them I settled on lever actions as a compromise between volume of fire and long range accuracy. Basically my 300 Savage in a 99F is comparable to a 308 Winchester. The 30-30 in a Winchester is ballisticly superior to the 5.56 in every way and even the .357 mag out of a rifle is a harder hitting round than a 5.56. I have literally thousands of rounds in 357 mag and have the components to reload them several times. I sold my assault rifle with 1500 rounds and 8 mag for a small fortune and reinvested into 12 gauge shells and reloading components for several hunting level rifle and handgun rounds along with several old school military rifles. I like having a bayonet on a rifle.

I have to admit that since I have no ambition to run and go Rambo that I have options that people on the run just don't have. I can have a thousand rounds of 7.62X54R and another 2 or 3 thousand in 357 mag, 500 30-30, 500 300 Savage, 1000 9mm, 300 12 gauge buckshot rounds and a 5 gallon bucket full of 22lr. Throw in the reloading stuff and ammo will never be an issue and it will make wonderful trade material. 308 bullets and large rifle primers means that I can reload nearly all 30 caliber rounds if you have the dies. Powder can be removed from one shell that you have and if you know how put into another case.

Each one of us here will have to find THEIR way. As I've said before, survival is an ART above all else, We each have our special talents and ways and no two of us is exactly the same. When I was younger my way was different than it is now. With age you will change and what sounded great when you were 25 or 30 isn't so great when you are 60. I know so much more now than I did when I was in my 20s. Unfortunately along with that knowledge I lost a lot of the physical abilities that I had then. Plan ahead and that won't matter too much though. Bugging in is for old farts like me but if you want to do that you need to plan for it and act while you are still young.

All this stuff with Hurricane Harvey has rubbed my nose in the fact that for some reason a lot of Americans at least seem to find the concept of forethought repugnant. I've watched so many of them run in circles with no idea of what they need to do. I have also watched those that do know jump into action and help the foolish out. In the event of a problem affected the entire nation though I wonder how long that sort of thing will work. Kindness tends to run dry fast when your family starts to suffer too.

 

Good post,now I am a Retired Marine and have M-4's etc., we have quite a few Combat Veterans in our family but many in my family have never been in, at our last family reunion six years ago this subject came up,some where asking about semi-autos the Veterans in our family my self included told them just go with what you have and use,30-30 ,12 gauge .22 etc just buy a box of ammo weekly or monthly, and if tshtf/wrol if we survive the first six months to a year we will all be armed the same, firepower does not take the place of accuracy . One of my brothers for years has had the henry 44 mag and a ruger pistol combo and henry 22 and ruger pistol combo plus a 12 gauge pump. low and behold he took our advise and needless to say i was shocked in one year he had accumulated about a thousand rounds of 12 gauge buckshot and slugs, a thousand rounds of 44 mag as well he did not have to buy 22 because he bought lots probably enough too fill 2-5 gallon buckets, when they were cheap in the 90's and stored them correctly he may never run out of them but he uses them the most too. I then gave him some advice to buy extra canned goods each week of stuff he uses and likes to eat etc. and he has done it. anyway come to find out many , but not all of our cousins did the same.

 

I partook of SERIOUS amounts of ammo in 1999. But even after that I seldom passed up on sale price 22lr at Wally World or Academy. I have always liked to shoot but, I don't know, I lost my blood lust and stopped hunting very much a lot of years ago. I did shoot a lot of rams and chickens and such but they were metal and on a silhouette range. I shot a lot of bowling pins and tin cans and paper but nothing living. Guns have made a nice hobby and tied into my survivalist leanings. I also used to bow hunt but like the guns my bows now are mostly poking holes in paper and bales of hay. In my back yard I have a wooden target for throwing knives, hawks and axes. People may think that my guns are dangerous but they are wrong!! I AM DANGEROUS and will be so butt naked and unarmed. However like my guns, bows and knives I only kill some fish, that I then eat, and am only dangerous to those that would do me harm.

 

I still hunt mostly for predator control, but do kill one or 2 deer,turkey and wild hogs a year for the freezer,rabbits and squirrels on occasion just for a skillet full fried or a stew. I just enjoy being in the deep timber!

 

My approach to firearms is in case of a breakdown of the grid, I want simple reliable weapons. Another angle I take is having multiple weapons that can use the same round, so I can stockpile more easily. To this end, I have a 12 gauge pump action shotgun that always goes boom. I keep stocks of 00 buck, bird shot, and a few slugs.
The main thing on my reliability focus is I have 3 revolvers. A medium frame S&W .38, a snub nose Ruger .38, and a Ruger .357 magnum. As many of you know, the 357 can also fire .38 special. This way I have hundreds of rounds of .38 stored, and if suddenly I can’t buy any more, I know I can use this ammo in ALL my revolvers. It makes it so much simpler! On my wish list I want a Ruger 77/357 bolt action one day, so I will have a rifle platform for this same caliber. It doesn’t have the effective range of a “ real rifle” ( about 150 yards or so), but is well suited to my topography.

Having 10 different types of firearm is awesome if you can afford it, just remember 6 months after the grid goes down you may well have several useless weapons because you can’t scrounge up ammunition for them.

Revolvers also require less maintenance!

 

One can never go wrong with a wheel gun!

 

Well, if you touch off a squib load that sticks the bullet halfway up the barrel of a revolver, note the wrong sound and don't inadvertently double-action a round behind that accident waiting to happen.

I luvz them revolvers, but oh do my Browning HP shoot true! Got me an older S&W .357, pinned barrel, recessed chambers, adj. sights. Him, he shoot true too.

 

A well maintained auto will function flawlessly.
A neglected wheel gun will fail.
I shot competition with a revolver, up to 500 rounds a month of .38 spl. but CLEANED the thing
and it never malfunctioned.
My Kimber .45 auto & Ruger SR 5.56 never fails either.
None of my 50+ firearms fail.(I'm NOT bragging. --Yes I am!)

Hey, I'm not wealthy but I'm 71 and worked all my life and bought goodies over many decades.
.22 r.f. autos, rifle, pistol, need cleaned as .22 r.f. ammo is kinda dirty.
I seldom clean the bore of a .22, but the action of the auto.

 

Excellent points and advice. I keep EVERYTHING clean and in perfect repair at all times. Period.

 

I prefer wheel guns and like Rugers and Taurus revolvers a lot. I have thousands of 357 mag rounds and 38 special rounds then a thousand hard cast semi-wadcutter bullets. and probably 500 125 gr half jacketed hollow points. I used to by those by the pound. I like the 357 mag in a rifle too and have a Winchester trapper in that. At one time Ruger made a seimi automatic rifle in 44mag that was like a beefed up 10-22. If they had ever made those in 357 mag I would have just HAD to have one. I did the same thing in 22lr in that I have a Taurus 94 double action 22 and matched it with a Henery 22. My 10-22 is matched to a Ruger target automatic. Basically I am invested in 22lr, 357 mag and 12 ga for survival and then have a Savage 99F that is a family rifle that is in 300 savage for deer or a 30-30 Marlin. I also have several bolt guns and automatic pistols but I just love my lever actions and revolvers both single action and double action.

 

Very true. I do also have a Beretta 380 semi auto that is great for concealment. I break it down and clean it every time I shoot it. Additionally, if I do not fire it for awhile I will still give it a light oiling every couple of weeks. It has always performed.

 

Modern automatics are VERY dependable and nothing like the jamamatics of the past. They actually don't require much more attention or care than a good revolver. Keep them clean and fed with good quality ammo and they will go bang every time you pull the trigger. Understand, this was not always true. I didn't think that S7W would ever learn how to make an automatic pistol that I would bet my life on and there were several copies of the colt auto that while they LOOKED like a colt they didn't shoot like one at all. Most of those weapons wouldn't dependably feed anything except ball ammo without some serious tuning and polishing. I have never had a stove pipe jam on any of my Glocks or Rugers.

The truth is that it took a while to get things timed and made just right to make a automatic pistol truly dependable. Even the venerable Colt 45 ACP took some serious work to make it so that it could be both accurate and dependable. The army version was dependable but loose as hell and accuracy was not at all there past very close quarters shooting. When you tightened it up it started giving you problems and required some serious professional porting and polishing. Not that is how the come new out of the box. Until the Ruger 22 automatic pistol there just weren't any 22 autos that were both inexpensive and dependable except for a silly little gun made of stamped metal and painted instead of blued called a Raven.

In recent years the move from revolvers to autos by most all police departments is in direct response to the huge improvements in the design and quality of the automatics. My only problem with them now is that I prefer more power than is generally offered in an automatic that is small enough to carry. The 40 S&W WAS there but then they reduced the power such that it is actually no better than the much improved loadings available in 9mm. They wanted to shoot the 40S&W and the hotter 10mm rounds out of the same guns as the 9mm and it just wasn't good. The service life of those guns was shortened so rather than build slightly heavier guns for these loading they reduced them or did away with them.

Revolvers didn't do this sort of thing. The J framed sized guns were never expected to handle the 357 mag and even the K frame sized revolvers were more for carrying than shooting. If you wanted to shoot a 357 mag a lot you got a gun with first and N frame and then later an L Frame which was a little lighter than an N frame but heavier than a K frame. Later the N frame was used for the 44mag. I suspect that the next evolution in automatics will be into slightly heavier framed guns with slightly fewer rounds that are substantially stronger powered. I can't be the only person that would rather have a few less rounds if I could have something that would offer improved stopping power even if there was a little more recoil.

 

Agreed. I was in the Army, so my background was in auto/semi auto military weapons. I made the move to wheelguns because I also prefer stopping power to more capacity. Recoil in a handgun doesn’t bother me, although it can make it harder to get back on target.

 

Many decades ago when police agencies were switching to autos from revolvers jamming
was a real issue.
It WASN'T the automatics. It was the shooters.
They were "limp wristing". The auto NEEDS something firm to cycle against properly.
When I taught my men to use a firm grip jams went away.
I love all by weapons, auto, revolver, bolt, lever, auto, rifles, and............................ALL OF 'EM.
I don't need more firearms. I WANT more firearms.
Mo' ammo. I need mo' ammo!
I have a 125 yard range right behind my house.
Gotta love it.
I own 15 acres, 14 is woods with squirrels, deer, rabbits, fox, and an occasional 'yote.
And NO close neighbors save one across the street hundreds of yards away.
The wife is a cutie too.

 

Who made a comment about black powder firearm being "no joke"? I can't find the post
but I AGREE 100%.
The American Civil war was fought with single shot muzzle loaders and Holy Black Powder.
I have .........?????????????? I dunno. Pro'ly 10 or more front loaders.
From 12 gauge to .36 caliber and in between.
One is a custom .40 Bucks County rock lock and she's a beauty.

http://www.custommuzzleloaders.com/buckscounty.html

Click link and drool. :>) Cost? $900 and a true bargain.
Cost today would approach $5,000 or more.
I also have a .45 muzzle loader that is hand built with a rare Douglas barrel.
Douglas quit making muzzle loader barrels decades ago.
I have a T/C Seneca coming that I bought from an auction site and I PAID dearly for it.
Well over $600 bucks. Kept nice value will only climb.
In a true shtf I'm going for my Kimber .45's and my S.R. 5.56.

 

Pardon me for quibbling but many of the weapons used in the civil war were not muzzle loaders. The Sharps Rifle for one example had a falling block breach action where you used a pre-made paper cartridge that you inserted in the breach and with the end then cut open you closed the breach, placed a percussion cap and fired away. The sharps was an amazingly accurate rifle and had a rate of fire several times faster than the muzzle loaders. Also, it could be loaded while sitting, kneeling or even laying down and that made it very popular also.

Later, after the war these falling block actions were converted to metallic cartridges as in the Shiloh Sharps Rifle you may have seen in the movie "Quiggly Down Under".

 

One early Sharps design utilizing paper cartridges had a falling block that when levered back up into battery actually sliced off the back tip of the paper. That part of the block was sharp and made of platinum. Once that the paper was sliced (think, cutting a cigar tip) the powder was directly exposed to the priming cap's jet flame at hammer fall. Sure, nitrated paper doesn't need to be cut, however to the folk back then this mechanism must have in some way made them feel more confident in the surety of ignition.

 

Can you imagine the advantage of not having to stand there on a battle field stuffing your load in a muzzle loader and being able to kneel or hide down behind a low berm while you reloaded??? It change tactics and the face of warfare at the time. The history of war is about constant little improvements then the change in tactics to both take advantage of it or defend against it.

 

What you just said is why I'm only interested in muzzle-loaders for nostalgic reasons. Brass cartridges are simply too useful to NOT use, they are safe, and brass cartridges last for decades, not just years. I've fired .303 loaded back in the 1950s. Sometimes the case necks split due to fulminate of mercury primers, however that is not a horrific safety issue.

 

I would suggest if your not good with a bow sling shot atlatl David sling Kylie stick or just a good rock or stick throwing better practice up guns are good yes but there's a lot of times that a shot going to bring down more that what you are shooting at I have been trained as a 8541 main job was a 0311 as a 8541 in the movies they are the best make the shots no matter what in the real world that don't happen all of the time there's a lot of watching and calling in Arty rounds because if you shoot your given a way your position and that could be a real bad thing for you you may call in a fast mover and carpet bomb a area before taking a shot so the guys that think your going to shoot your way out of ever fight you come to know in a world gone bad you won't last 3 months you better become a live ghost or be made a ghost and push up Daisys feeding worms

 

All kidding aside, what we think of as hunting is a SPORT. It is like boxing and has a lot of silly rules that will NOT apply in a survival situation. If I decide to kill a deer i will most likely do it with a spear. It is really simple. You put 1/8" cable snares on all of the trails and then drive the deer into them. When you hear them thrashing around fighting the strangle snare you slide up and cut their throat with a spear.

Native Americans were masters at this sort of "hunting" and would drive a herd of buffalo either off a cliff or through a prairie dog town. The many holes that are the top doors of the town are leg breakers and then all they had to do was finish off the kill. This is the reason that ranchers generally will let you on their property to hunt and kill the prairie dogs. The holes are hard on cattle and horses too.

If I'm going to shoot I will do it at night. When you hit a deer in the eyes with a bright light they will freeze and look right at you. One shot from close up with a 22lr or 22 mag is all it takes to make the kill. You shoot them in the eyes. If you want to learn how to KILL game you need to get to know a poacher. I have a brother in law that used to fill orders of deer and he never failed to deliver. Survival has no rules. People that go out and think that they can feed themselves using sport hunting methods are going to spend a lot of time hungry. A good poacher is like sending someone to the store to buy meat.

Fishing is much the same and there are a lot of things that are illegal for a reason that you can do to almost make getting supper a certainty. electro-fishing, poisoning, netting, trapping, long-lining and snagging are mostly illegal here for a reason and while I don't do these things I do have the materials and devices and knowledge so if I ever need to do it I will be prepared.

In almost any thing if you will look at what is against the law in both fighting AND sports you will know what to do in a survival situation. If there is a law against it there is usually a reason. Being prepared is best when you prepare with knowledge as well as with conditioning and THINGS. Texas is covered with several million feral hogs and anything that a hog can eat a human can eat. The problem will be that hogs KNOW what to eat and most people DON'T! If nothing else, learn to WATCH what the animals eat and you will learn what you can eat in a survival situation.

 

We, family, used to shoot and eat groundhogs due to their holes breaking the legs of cattle.

Forestry Service, of Ag. Dept., LOATHE hogs. They actually want them wiped-out. It's been over 40 years ago, however I remember the deep hatred the rangers had for feral hogs. Where they dig, it looks like someone took a rototiller to the forest floor. Plus they root-out endangered plant species.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/22/east-texas-man-takes-down-416-pound-wild-hog-in-backyard.html

 

They are working on a hog specific poison to wipe them out. They are doing millions and millions of dollars of damages to crops and peoples homes. I went to a friends house last year. He normally had about an acre that was like a manicured golfing green in the front of his home. It looked like and I THOUGHT someone had come in plowed and disked it like he was preparing a field. It was what hogs did to it in ONE night!!! They will wipe out a half acre garden in no time at all leaving NOTHING much behind but turned over dirt.

It has reached the point where cities have hog round ups and over the period of a long week end people compete to see who can kill the most hogs. They will eliminate hundreds of hogs in that one county and it doesn't really even dent the population. The problem is that hogs population runs in direct proportion to the available food supply and when you kill a bunch the surviving sows have more to eat and just have more piglets until the balance is back. I swear they bread like rabbits or rats!!

To make matters worse at some point back there some idiot thought it would be good to bring in and release some Russian Bores to improve the bread. Those SOBs are BIG and mean. In India in the old days those big hogs were rated above tigers as the most dangerous things to hunt. They would sometimes attack and gut an elephant to get to the people on top of them!! I've personally only seen one but that one was huge and looked NOTHING like a domestic or normal feral hog! They have bread with the regular hogs and the result is an even hardier breed than either. This is where a lot of the hogzilla hogs come from. From the looks of that hove the guy killed in his back yard here in East Texas that one looks like it may be about 25% Russian. They are shaped different with huge front shoulders, big tusks and they are sort of sloped back to lower and smaller rear ends. They run like deer rather than the sort of super fast waddle that domestic hogs can do. Domestic hogs were bred to have bigger hams and not speed. Russians were top line predators and designed to defend their broods from tigers, lions and bears in their true ecological nitch. There is NOTHING in North America that is a threat to them other than man.

 

Back to the topic of what kind of gun is best... You know, that is a question that can only be truely answered by me asking you a bunch of questions. Where are you going to be? What kind of animals are common in that area? What kind of experience do you have with both guns and hunting? How near to a major metropolitan area are you going to be? How many people are going to be with you and what are their skill sets? Are you going to be on the move bugging OUT or staying in place bugging IN???....

There is no one perfect gun. There is not even one that is close to a do it all perfect gun. If you are in an area where there are bears and moose you need something that can STOP m. If you live on the plains and about the only critters that you might hunt would be rabbits or birds a shotgun would be a lot more useful than a big bore rifle. If you are not much of a gun affectionato you would probably be better off and safer with guns that are not automatic. A revolver is a point and pull the trigger thing where a lot of automatics require specific handling and safeties to make and use them safely.

I will tell you something that you won't see on any of the survival board. For years I carried a 357 magnum single action revolver. You know a cowboy gun like Matt Dillon carried. Not once did I EVER feel under gunned. At one time I regularly made a lot of money proving that I could put 6 holes in a human silhouette target faster with that gun that nearly anyone else could with either a double action revolver or an automatic. Up close I could clear my holster and get off 6 shots almost before most people could clear their holster. The funny thing was that the more experienced they were the less likely they were to come close to matching me. It is NOT the gun that makes a person dangerous it is the person and how much time they spent shooting their weapon.

Cops and people that were trained and practiced a lot developed their techniques down a certain path. They pulled the weapon, lifted it and shoved it forward while assuming some form of two handed grip and stance. This was instinctive for them and they were GOOD at it. The problem was that I was wearing a low slung fast draw holster and shooting a single action gun that I had modified for a certain style. It had a slightly larger smooth top on the hammer and a slightly heavier main spring installed. The trigger was truelove a hair trigger. When I cleared my holster right beside my hip I reached across my body and slapped the hammer back. I had already pulled the trigger and it fired instantly . I fanned it 5 more times and there were 6 holes in the target before a lot of people got their guns up and aimed. The gun never rose above my hips. It is sort of a trick but with practice don't even think that I was under gunned. I used another single action for silhouette shooting out to 300 meters. You will never hear anyone recommending them but even a single action in the hand of someone that has practiced for thousands and thousands or rounds it good for protection.

By a gun that is expropriate for the primary use you expect to put it to. Survival in not war. If you go out and treat it like on you will die. You will need to protect yourself and sometimes that will be from people. these people though are not going to be trained and organize soldier most likely. After everyone gets to watch someone die from being gut shot they are going to be a LOT nicer and more careful. Guns will mostly be for protection. There are a lot of easier and better ways to acquire meat than shooting it.

Think about what you need and what you expect to face and then ask around an get opinions from as many people as possible.

 

Did you ever see footage of Sammy Davis Jnr. shooting from the hip? It's an education.

 

LOL, I was and still am rather fond of single action pistols. My first two handguns were single action. I used to win a lot of bets with a slightly modified Ruger Blackhawk. I could put 3 holes in a silhouette target before most people could get a shot off with an automatic pistol. In the hands of someone that has spent the time perfecting it a single action is hard to beat in an across the room shoot out. Well trained shooters were the easiest to beat because they would try to draw and bring the gun up and into a two handed weaver type stance before they fired. My gun was low slung and was fired as soon as it cleared the holster and pointed to the target by a quick slap of the hammer followed by more.

I knew an old man that made a small fortune skeet and trap shooting. He could shoot reload and shoot again with a single shot shotgun that if you weren't watching you would think it was a pump or simiauto. He could beat most people's scores. I wouldn't consider him undergunned in a survival situation because he "only" had a single shot shotgun.

One of the reasons I'm not fond anymore of the civilian assault rifles is that too many idiots think that just owning one makes them prepared and ready for anything. The fact is that if they go up against some old fart with a winchester that he has been killing deer with for 40 years the assault rifle is going to get him killed. While he is sprying and praying that old man is going to shoot him DEAD with one well placed shot!

 

I just picked up a Ruger Blackhawk in 41 Magnum. It is a nice and accurate pistol but I found out that not only is the ammunition expensive..it comes in only 20 round boxes.

As a reloader I am learning to "Roll My Own " 41 Magnums..but I am downloading them a bit from factory specs.

For most things I prefer controllability for repeat shots if needed. Not hot loads.

However...years ago...shooting black powder taught me to try to shoot straight..not shoot a lot. You just cannot shoot rapidly with black powder.

Reloading my own ammo...also taught me to shoot straight not shoot a lot.

I tend towards bolt actions, black powder, and single shots.

I try to choose commonly available calibers..like 30.06, .308, .223, .38 special, .357 mag...etc etc.

I have picked up a barrel for my Thompson Contender in 7mm TCU caliber. Now this ammunition cannot be bought in stores..you have to make it ..to roll your own ammo here. I make my 7mm TCU ammo by necking up .223 brass to accept a 7mm/284 diameter bullet of some 120 to 139 grains. I have plenty of .223 cases put back. SAme with .30.06.

What I have taught myself to do is if needed fabricate .308 cases from 30.06 cases.
I have fabricated 7.7mm Japanese Arisaka ammo from .30.06 cases.
I have fabricated .243 cases from .308 cases. I am sure I can also fabricate .243 cases from .30.06 cases if needed.

It was just an idea which came to me that it might be good to know in a ammo pinch...which many of us thought was coming under the Obama Administration.

Don't you people kid yourself..I think the same thing with Republicans in office.

Any government which will not trust you with a gun and ammo..will never trust you with a vote.
Think it through carefully...it fits..no matter what party is in office.

I tend to stick to military calibers ...which have proven themselves by the test of time and events. This means brass is more commonly available for a multitude of applications if you know how.

I try to stay away from high cycle type guns being a reloader. I prefer to make my shots count...not shoot a lot.

One of those gun gurus is often quoted as saying... "Only accurate rifles are interesting." I think it was Townsend Whelen. I agree with the premise

Thanks and keep them in the X Ring.

Watcher Chris.

 

Great cal. the .41. You got molds? Gas check your bullets used in reloading. These gas checks will help keep your revolver's barrel from leading bad. Of course if you alloy your bullets to be hard, leading would also be kept down. If you go soft lead, you'll definitely have to use gas checks.

http://www.sagesoutdoors.com/41-lyman-caliber-gator-gas-checks/

http://rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=231687&start=15

If you want to buy Buffalo Bore ammo in .41 Mag. you'll have to take out a second mortgage on your house:
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=18

Reloading is the way to go. https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-cases/41-Mag-Brass/

 

Absolutely correct here Olde Geezer,

I load three styles of bullets for this calibration. 210 grain Hornday HPs. Also load 210 grain copper clad semi waddcutters and also 250 grain Wide Flat Nosed Gas Checks.

I got to thinking it through and wanted an extra heavy cast lead bullet for maximum energy delivery and weight penetration and decided the gas check was the way to go.

I have shot these gas checked bullets only a hand full of times to test them out and was surprised at how clean the barrel is when they are shot.

This marks the first time I have ever loaded a gas check bullet and it does exactly what you describe.

I have also purchased about 700 rounds of Starline brass for this piece....and put it back in storage.

I buy my bullets in bulk for this caliber. The gas check bullets I have put back a plenty. Also in bulk for .38 Special and .357 magnum. I do not cast my own.

It is not a high priority but down the road I have my eye on a lever gun in .41 magnum and also in .357 Magnum.
It just makes sense to me a rifle and pistol I the same calibration.


I tend to go with heavy bullets even in .38 Special and also .357Mag....the 158 grain in copper clad, HP, and also in cast bullets. I am not keen on the lighter 125 grain bullets in .38 Special and or .357 magnum.

Black powder shooting also taught me that blinding light speed is not everything in a pistol and rifle. Accuracy and controllability are more important to me.

I've seen the ads for Buffalo Bore ammo but never bought any. Thanks for the tip regarding the mortgaging of ones home to purchase. I will roll my own ...thanks.

I was never keen on all the hype of the .44 Magnums.. When someone at work was selling this Ruger Blackhawk in .41 Magnum..I decided to get it at that price as they needed the cash.
But I knew when I bought it I would be rolling my own for it as I have taught myself to do with the 7.7 Japanese Arisaka rifle.
Both of these calibations...not everyone sells ammo for them unless you go to specific gun stores. Same thing with my Thompson Contender in 7mm TCU.

It just made sense to learn to roll your own put back enough supplies and be a bit self sufficient. And that philosophy fit right in when I began to think about prepping.


Keep them in the X ring,
Orangetom

 

The 2 fire arms I carry 99% of the time are my Taurus ALR 1911 stock and my Ruger min-14 582 series with Nikon Coyote special bdc scope and true shot barrel stabilizer and Houge mountain shadow stock. Never owned a mini 14 before and absolutely love it. Not getting rid of my m-4's but this Mini is my Hog , Coyote , and Deer slayer I only make head shots on 4 legged animals. In a wrol/shtf would not be that picky on 2 legged communist/zombies.

 

I have of recent been looking into air rifles. I have discovered that you can spend a considerable amount on an air rifle and to my surprise. I now have two ...of them.

One is a pump Benjamin .22 Caliber air rifle...a rather olde design but relatively simple and therefore reliable.

The other is new and still in the box. I've not had time to check it out . It comes with two barrels...one in .22 and the other in .177. This is some kind of break barreled rifle and I am not as sure of it's reliability long term verses the Benjamin.

When I was a young lad...the Benjamin design came in what was 5mm or 20 caliber. I think today I prefer .22 caliber as the ammunition is more readily available.

I own two cap lock firearms ..in .50 caliber...a pistol and also a Hawkin Rifle. The rifle I like very much in that calibration as it is powerful within it's range limits. I discovered ...that these black powder firearms are not a toy...and very hard hitting on the receiving end....also hard hitting on the butt stock end if you load them hot. They can shake your teeth with hot loads.

I have shot round balls and Maxi balls in this .50 Caliber Hawkin. I have to dated not tried any of this sabot type ammunition in them which has become popular today. I use a powder called Pyrodex.

This rifle taught me respect for those olde timers who came before us in this country. And they usually got only one good shot..so they learned quickly to make it count.

One of the things I learned very quickly with this type of black powder traditional rifle is to get rid of the wooden ram rod. I replaced it with a fiberglass and brass one.

I am considering getting a take down recurve bow. I have a crossbow in 150 lb draw but am not keen on it.
I do not want a compound bow...to many moving parts to go bad.

I can appreciate a tool which operates very quiet. Hence the recent interest in air rifles and bows.

My friend to whom I speak on my ham radio out in Tennessee has a air rifle in .45 Calber and uses a special pump and or air compressor to charge a bottle to some 3,000 psi. To complicated for my taste...but it is a big powerful caliber in a air rifle.

I generally prefer the KISS principle in tools...Keep it simple stupid. It is my way.


This means single shots, pumps, or bolt actions in smokeless firearms.
I also like to keep iron sights on a pistol or rifle even if I put optics on them. There is not much worse to me than having your glass go out on you and having no back up iron sights.

I like a good .22 long rifle in bolt action. Most of them for which I choose will easily handle shorts , longs, and long rifles. So too the pump .22s I choose. This is not the case with .22s in semi autos. Hence I stay away from .22 in semi auto rifles.

I own one .22 long rifle semi auto pistol which is one of the most accurate pistols I have ever used. It is a Ruger Government...and very very accurate even with iron sights. I do not regret making this purchase.

I consider the pistol/rifle combination in the same calibration to be worth checking into and need to work in this direction.
I am speaking here in a pistol/rifle combination in .38/357 magnum...as this calibration is rather commonly to be found in this country.

I do own a pistol in .41 Magnum and am considering a rifle in this calibration as well.
The problem with this calibration is that it is not commonly available in most stores. Hence I have been buying brass by the Hundred round bags and putting it aside and teaching myself to roll my own ammo for this calibration. Store bought ammo for this caliber is also expensive and comes in only 20 round boxes. Another reason to teach myself to roll my own ammo.

I own a single shot pistol which often comes in rifle calibers...A Thompson Contender with a 14 inch barrel. The barrels have on them Iron sights but glass can be mounted if so desired.

I have three barrels for this pistol ..one in .35 Remington, .223, and 7mm TCU calibers.

The 7mm TCU..calibration cannot be found in stores and hence I roll my own ammo for this as well by necking up a .223 casing to .284 diameter or 7mm and loading either a 120 grain or 139 grain bullet into this casing.
I verily enjoy just sitting down at a bench and shooting this particular caliber 7mm TCU as my favorite..out to 100 yards.

The .35 Remington turned out to be a big mistake. This was way to much gun unless you seriously enjoy punishment.
I have a lever rifle in that caliber and hence thought I would get the 14 inch Contender barrel for it.
Not a intelligent idea. This turned out to be a Mule ...on both ends. I seldom shoot this barrel now days. I can roll my own ammo for this caliber as well.
.35 Remington is a good caliber in a lever rifle...just not a handgun.

.223 is fine and accuratae in this single shot pistol...but I'd rather the 7mm TCU caliber.

I want to get a 14 inch barrel for it in .22 long rifle down the road some time.

Enough of that for now.

Thanks,
Watcherchris

 

The best weapon is the weapon you know how to use. So mine, as former designated marksmans choise is SVD and Tikka T3 CTR '308. Both with 10 round magazines. SVD is semi auto, but if shit will hit the fan - 7,62x54r ammo will be problem to get. '308 is the same as NATO standart 7,62x51, so will be plenty of them. For handgun my choise is Sig Sauer P226 9x19. Because I hate plastic, but I like 15+1 rounds magazine and NATO standart ammo.
Also I own military AKMN 1962. 7.62x39 is good caliber for urban combats, ammo is cheap, rifle is reliable, I can disassemble and reassemble it in 1 min, plus AKMN has the same scope mount as SVD.

 

Yup Keith....this is what I learned at the gun range when becoming familiar with this black powder rifle...

I began bringing a couple of thermoses of Hot water to help with cleaning them or you would get significant fouling and have difficulty loading the round down the barrel...if you did not clean.

My particular rifle has a chrome plated bore ...which I did not know at the time of purchase. But this does not negate the proper cleaning and care of this tool.
I am ever grateful to my father who taught me to take good care of ones tools and they will last one a long long time. Also get the proper instruction and or maintenance books / parts breakdowns for certain tools or machines to go with keeping such a long long time.

After clearing I have also learned to put a very very thin layer of silicon based grease on a patch and run through the barrel and also over the outside surfaces to act as a moisture barrier. I have since extended this practice to my smokeless tools as well....even the few have have in stainless.


One of the things I need to do is in fact to research the manuals for these air rifles and get spare seals for them as lonewolf aptly described. In particular this Benjamin pump rifle.

Taking such an air rifle down and apart ..I don't see a problem per se. I have taken apart several car engines lalso my scooters and mopeds and even put several ships into bottles.

You just have to be very carefull as to the order the parts are disassembled and I put them on a clean covered surface...in the order in which I have removed them. Herein you need to be very careful about having children and the undisciplined invading your work spaces. For they can cause extreme chaos with lost parts.
And this is true on no matter on what you are doing maintenance.


The dual barreled rifle I have not even taken it out of the box with so many home and auto repairs going on around here.
But I will get around to it soon.

My Thanks to all for their posts,
Watcherchris

 

A footnote here concerning my shooting experience with black powder shooting and what came out of it ..but not intended..or planned if you prefer.

Shooting black powder taught me several things which, though unplanned/unintended, carried over into smokeless powder shooting and even reloading or rolling my own ammo.

First ..I learned a measure of respect for the people who came before me in this country and even other countries in taming the countryside with black powder. Between natures elements....and natural predators ....many who were more powerful and sometimes more brutish and even more cunning than men....and there they were..often with only one shot good shot between them, hunger, and or damnation. These olde timers....while they did not have many choices of options for which we today take for granted...they definitely had some brass ones hanging ...so to speak. Knowing that they had to do it today and then again and again and again..with only one shot..between them...hunger.. and or damnation.

While these firearms where often very powerful close up...it took precious time to reload...if you did not drop your prey quickly and efficiently with the first shot.


The other thing which happened and for which I did not plan or factor in ...at first...was that I began to lose my taste for fast shooting semi auto firearms. I reasoned to myself that shooting a lot does not necessarily make up for shooting accurately.

And when I began to take an interest in reloading my own ammunition ....rolling my own ammo....again I realized the same.

It did not make good nonsense to spend hours at the reloading bench only to shoot up this supply of reloaded ammo in five minutes.


Hence the appeal of the Thompson Center single shot pistol. In addition to the fact that it is a beautiful pistol..it is also an accurate pistol if one can hold it steady. It also has one of the most beautiful out of the box trigger pulls I have ever experienced in a factory production pistol. Once the hammer is cocked back ...it is a light ..clean crisp pull...and break...and with little to no over travel....once the hammer drops.

It has become a standard for which I measure other triggers.

I also began to favor bolt actions and pumps. Bolt actions in particular for accuracy.

Don't get me wrong here...I understand the rationale for semi autos and own several..I just do not favor shooting them much and for reasons given and lean towards these others described.


Thanks,
Watcherchris

 

The one automatic that jumps to mind for me is the Ruger 10-22. I have a 3X9 scope on mine and it is a tack driver. They are also massively dependable. It allows you to use a 22lr to fill a lot of slots in a survivalists needs. After having gone the full route with automatic rifles of all kinds this is the only one that I currently own. They just eat up too much ammo and encourage you to feel safe when you aren't.