What to use for future trade?

I have tried to use the seeds from several of the new GMO type plants and not had great success. I think that if I was going to put millions of dollars into developing a fruiting plant that I would also incorporate protection to protect my product investment from offering free seeds. The second-generation seeds are hard to get to germinate and just don't seem to be as hearty as the first generation plants.

Many of the heritage and heirloom plants offer a lot of advantages for a post-apocalyptic gardener. They were not designed to need all the heavy fertilizer and insecticides that the possibly higher producing designer plants. Another thing about many of them is that their taste is much different and in some cases, certain old school breeds were specifically grown for purposes other than eating fresh. We used to grow several types that were specifically for canning and making things like salsa. They were meatier and possible more acidic.

Some we grew because they were wildly different in both appearance and taste from most modern tomatoes. The Black Krim and several of the old Bloody Butcher Heirloom tomatoes were just outstanding both in their rather odd look and their rich sweet taste.

 

Those are just the "hybrids".

There are no "GMO" oranges.
There are no "GMO" watermelons.
There's only 1 variety of apples.

Very little of what humans eat is "GMO"
https://gmoanswers.com/gmos-in-the-us

https://gmo.geneticliteracyproject....ally-engineered-crops-are-approved-in-the-us/

 

Koalas almost exclusively eat eucalyptus leaves. They get an entire chapter in the book of "How to Become Extinct". Anything bad whatsoever happens to the eucalyptus trees of their forests, poof!, Koala die-off.

Dependency = Death

If you and your family are dependent on electricity, then say your prayers.

Where we once lived in the Midwest, power outages were not uncommon and they occurred when temperatures were far below zero. I had a big generator and did share the power (I always have huge thick extension cords) with some neighbors who were Bosnians. Why share? I could. Secondly, the guy looked like a soldier (he had been above that rank back home), tough guy (very healthy, a worker, responsible) the kind of guy who could possibly be an ally should circumstances call for it (and the Serbs attacked our embassy in Belgrade 2008; let's say that I wasn't particularly happy about that). Your perimeter is strengthened when you have allies.
.

 

The thing is that most of what we eat has been genetically modified from the original plant or animal. Corn was originally a grass that had seed pods. Many many generations of selective seed choices led to a plant that was genetically different from its original form. I can assure you that Herford cattle are much different from their original form and would have little chance of surviving in the wild.

The only difference now is that via direct modification of the genes we are able to do in years what once took hundreds of years to accomplish. We can only feed the massive number of people that are in the world today because of the very special and very modified foods that we grow. If farmers were limited to only heritage seed we in the US could still feed our people but the massive amounts of food that we ship all over the world would STOP. I come from a farming and ranching family and the yield that farmers are getting from their fields now would have been unimaginable 50 years ago. The plants are better, the fertilizer is better and the insecticides keep the insects from eating a major part of the crop.

Organically grown heritage crops are better. They were grown and over time they were genetically modified for TASTE. Modern crops have been selected for increased production and in the case of fruits and things like tomatoes they are bred for better shipability with fewer losses due to damage.

No other country gets the sort of production that we get from our admittedly VAST fields. Russia nearly starved to death in part because they harassed the Mennonite wheat farmers that were feeding them. They left and took their very special Wheat seeds and came to the US and then in Kansas they modified their seed to better take advantage of the conditions in Kansas. The Russians managed to get their hands on some of the seeds but the by then modified seeds refused to produce in the Russian fields.

Nearly everything that we deal with that isn't wild and natural is a Genetically Modified Organism. My little Yorkie is a genetically modified WOLF and as far as she is concerned she still is a wolf and bad to the bone! Man always changes whatever he deals with. That started about the time that man started using fire and stone weapons I suspect.

 

Very interesting history ....did not know that about the Mennonites in Russia...thanks for that Tex..

Have some non GMO seeds coming from a private source..soon...

Watcherchris
Not an Ishmaelite.

 

You will find that the heritage plants while not as productive will taste so much better. That is what they are bred for.

 

Things like seedless grapes still have seeds but they are bred for fewer and smaller seeds so we don't notice. There are other ways to grow plants besides seeds. Apples don't grow in Alaska. Crabapples do so apple trees are grafted onto crabapple rootstock. Some crops can be multiplied by bending a branch over so it comes in contact with the ground where it generates roots. There are other ways to increase your crops.

 

Well gosh, if you were going to buy physical silver, you waited too long to do so. Seems the dealers aren't dealing. First, silver's going up in price was an attack on hedge funds, plus some price speculation; now, it's a matter of there not being silver coins to purchase. Silver Eagles went over $40/each today ... if you can find a seller.

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/u...they-halted-silver-bullion-sales-over-weekend

 

I bought a pile of silver eagles when they were a whopping 8 dollars apiece back in 1999 as a hedge. I bought gold too but it got so expensive that it was basically useless for my purposes. Would someone sell you something for a BB of gold?

 

Good morning all,

My 2 Federal Reserve Notes worth;

I was working in a nearly SHTF area and there was a big trade item.

We were looking for exploration oil drilling opportunities in the CIS /NIS - the former Soviet Social Republics spun off for Moscow to get more powerful. Yes, more powerful.

A big trade item that I noticed was medical supplies such as stringes w/ the correct gauge needle, the drip tubes. Can guess all the rest was sought for trade but only saw above-mentioned stuff in trade.

Whether precious metal coins or health care supplies, for trade I'd definitely recommend studying up on the American river boat poker game practices and protocols. Without a battery of Napoleon 12 pounders, it's probably best ot just plead poverty and not offer medical supplies in trade for anything.

 

I think that people will always fall for precious metals and jewels. They have been told all of their lives that they are "valuable" and even in the worst of times that social programming will hold an attraction for some. In all reality gold and silver are two of the most useless metals there are except for their glitter. In a world without electricity their one true use otherwise is about gone yet all over the world, all through time, people have used it primarily to honor their gods and the rich and powerful. In doing that it has become a symbol of power even though it is of little use as a weapon or a tool.

Copper and tin gave mankind the bronze age. Iron brought in the iron age but at no time was there a gold or silver age and yet at no time was gold and silver not a driving force of civilization. The reason for this is simple, barter is of no use past an extremely small area and group of people. You can't carry a bunch of chickens or a pile of things very far that people elsewhere would value. Gold and silver were the tools that created civilizations. Easily transported wealth!!! When I was younger ALL of the American paper money was basically a silver certificate redeemable in silver from the US government. Now it is paper and only the habit of accepting that paper allows it to have any value. When things collapse all paper money is going to be is small and very poor toilet paper but coins and other precious metals and gems will return quickly as a medium of exchange.

I'm not saying that a hungry man would sell you his food for gold or silver but when he has a full belly and feels sure that this will continue, he will become much more interested in things of value even if it is actually useless for other than trade. Survival needs to be more than a plan for food for tomorrow. At first only things of immediate use will have real value but then once people have a full belly and a roof over their heads they will want more.

They will want and need a way to fuel an economy. What does a man with a chicken do when he needs something and the person that has it does not want a chicken? Say he wants a knife from a man that makes them. The man does not like chicken but might like something else that someone else has. A trade might have to involve several people in order for everyone to get what they want so the original man can get that knife. Some sort of nonperishable medium of exchange is a must once you get past trading with your neighbors and people WILL then return to the same thing that has held its value for thousands of years.

Gold, silver and copper are always going to have some value. I don't just have silver dollars I have all sorts of metal coins from pennies in 5-pound sacks to rolls of dimes quarters, half dollars and dollars. I also have a collection of rings with gemstones and necklaces made of gold and even the old Indian silver necklaces.

On a more reality-based level I also have tens of thousands of rounds of 22lr. That may be of great value in a world where people that can't shoot a bow and hit the side of a bard are trying to get meat...or protection. Once things settle my books may become my greatest asset. Knowledge and entertainment always has value once you get past a day to day survival situation.

Once I had myself way past well set for the short-term survival with a totally silly number of guns and ammo. Tools to grow my own food. A full set of tools for making other tools from salvaged metal, sewing and medical supplies...THEN I started thinking a little further down the line and started gathering things that people will WANT even if they may not NEED them. This is what happens when you have been a survivalist all of your life. My Dad believed in being prepared for any disaster and so I just carried on a family tradition. For nearly 50 adult years I have prepared to survive. In the end I did it because I enjoyed it. My Dad also taught me another valuable survival lesson. If you ain't having a good time, then you are doing it wrong because in the end NONE of us are going to get out of this life ALIVE.

 

Good morning TexDanm,

I subscribe to your Dad's philosophy. Preparedness must be an overall effort that's personally appreciated both intellectually and emotionally.

 

Money or whatever becomes money is by definition.....

Whatever is the most swappable commodity...not necessarily gold or silver....it could be salt as in the olde days.

Any of you ever think about buying salt while it is still available and inexpensive?????


Whatever becomes the most in demand or swappable will become money.

It could be a handful of .22 long rifles, some .45s and some 30-30s.

It may become whiskey...alcohol...!! How about cigarettes??? Tobacco??


As I a often want to describe ...with my balding pate....a bag of combs is not of much use to me....but that guy over there with three daughters and a wife....it may become of great use in a trade!!! You see?? And that guy might invest in it with another guy who also has a lot of women in his group. Used more than two times in a trade/bargaining ...the combs become a form of money..in demand. You see??

When the economy collapses...the government does not determine what is money....they will try ..but whatever trades will be determined by demand...and the ability to fulfill the demand....not by government. Whatever will trade and hold value well..will become in demand... will become money.

Only public education can dumb people down so far that they lose sight of this historic truism.


Whatever becomes most swappable or in demand will become money.


Watcherchris
Not an Ishmaelite.

 

Good afternoon Watcherchris,

Just wrote up a yellow stick-on with "Salt". On my mental list for a long time but never got it. Will now.

Not in a push/shove situation by any account, but "in exchange" of tokens of appreciation at a meeting in Central Asia, I gave the host a bottle of multi-vitamins. My "token" was the highlight of the meeting.

If/when stuck here, am planning to enter isolation mode. No contacts if this can occur. Thus, no trade. Security/safety is of little concern but must be for any intruder. My worry is infectious illnesses - and not COVID-19. My worry is the stuff like TB.

 

I don't store anything for trade as I am not likely to find something after S.H.T.F. that I would want . Then again my surmises is based on a a true apocalypse . Simply a hard time such as what the citizens of Venezuela now experience , then yes I could see trade being conducted . Either way though a apocalypse or government collapse I fell confident in my groups survival ability without trade . Unintentionally though I could fathom having a surplus of food at times so I could possibly have a trade item .

 

There are people who will sell their soul for a #12 shot's worth of tin.

 

I'm going to take a liberty here in further describing or amplifying what I stated in my previous post on this thread...,

One of the features of a good money is its ability to store value....or as is often taught by people in the know.....but not in public schools....

A Storehouse of value as it is often called...

You do not find this in today's paper money.

Money or whatever you are using as a money must have a certain scarcity in relation to real goods and or services...to keep properly functioning.

When money...in particular paper money ...reaches a certain tipping point when people become aware of this fragility of the paper money..,.they will stop using it or they will take a loss if they do not.

Now....what many of you do not know and is seldom taught.,..is that often what governments do historically is they outlaw gold, silver, or Precious Metals or whatever people are deciding to use as money and force people back onto the worthless money.

Once again one has to become educated to be this stupid.....or the phony worthless money becomes clearly visible to those who can think as a tool needed for proper political herding.

So too the banking system keeping records of how much people spend...a necessary tool for herding....as they deal almost exclusively in debt paper instruments.


What you find historically and so often undefined by government leadership, public education, and even your news media....not spinning the news...not herding...

You often hear government/leadership...stating ...to the economic effect that data shows that we have to increase this or decrease that....now we need new rules and regulations or controls....in order to make the numbers come out right..,socially as well as economically.

What you need to know is that this is not economics.....what this is ..... is politics."

Now think about this in relation to where government is trying to force/herd this nation.....

Social Justice....feminism...racism....,.gender studies/outcomes/forever a "Victim."


These kinds of thing are what is replacing economics in our nation today.

Once again you have to be educated in stupidity not to catch onto it.

But this is what our leadership is doing...replacing economics with politics.

Put another way...rigging the marketplace.


And once again....if Politics will rig a marketplace...would they not also rig and election????

You do not need to be a genius or rocket material to see this one.....

And also if true...is this evolution or de evolution??? Think it through!!

These people will tell on themselves if you watch Ishmaelite wildlife long enough...for they cannot change their spots.

Thus it is incumbent for them in their need for more and more power to Herd....to change your spots.



Economics is what causes this ..what causes that....

Once you collect alot of data on economics ..measure it...someone will want to change the numbers...by increasing this or decreasing that....now you need new regulations and or controls in order to make the numbers come out correctly...by politics.

Now you have made the switch to politics...not economics...and most people do not have a clue and the system is designed for you never to have a clue.

But how about that ESPN....the Kardashians???

Once you measure it...someone will want to change the numbers..

Today this kind of whorish economics/politics masquerading as economics is called "Equity."

Be Warned the Ishmaelites...

My non Ishmaelite .02,
Watcherchris

 

People do not need money to have avarice.....

The real goal here for people of avarice is power...not money. Money is only a tool for further power...

Ishmaelites.....love power....anyway they can get it..but it amounts to bondage over others...


I believe it was Henry Kissinger who is oft quoted as saying to the effect that....." Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac."


Watcherchris
Not an Ishmaelite

 

Oh...I agree with you lonewolf....I think very very similar...I don't want to be "Herded" or put another way messed with by anyone. I want to be able to drive my own bus ..so to speak..and be left alone.


But there are people out here with serious avarice....

One of the worst and most insulting to me are these people who are so unbelievably co dependent on race and racism to have power and control over others. They must define everything in these terms and have everyone herded into doing the same.

We are very very close to seeing racism and or social justice being used and or misused to herd entire people and nations....under someone else's control. In this manner power becomes a drug to these people...and by methodology ..so too does racism...they are dependent on it like a drug habit..cocaine or heroin....you can see them coming after awhile. They become predictable.

These people believe in power...herding power...not liberty and freedom to be left alone with ones labor or what one produces with ones labor and or time.

I despise this kind of thinking.


We are reaching quickly a sort of nexus wherein everything is defined by race, sex, sexual orientation and anything but thinking for ones self...

Where thinking for ones self is considered immoral or treasonous.

It really is becoming rapidly and openly demonic in it's true nature..



by Poltirergist

Agree again..and one does not necessarily need to buy ones way out of everything...

But historically people have always devised some kind of monies....to smooth business between people and even nations...nationally ..within a nation ...and internationally between nations.


People will decide for themselves what they will use for monies....and set standards for the same.

This is why we have monetary exchange rates...because all people and nations did not decide the same.

Deciding on a money system within and among nations is as natural as breathing ...it is in fact a form of survival..

It is serious prepping and sets the stage for national commerce and also international commerce.

The history shows that governments or whomever or whatever is a nations real government tend to manipulate the monies often into worthlessness...and this history is often not taught to people for the truth it really is.

Prepping is survival...and so too with this is thinking about what to do for money...be it skills and knowledge or commodities....to be bartered or traded for other goods or services you do not have.
It is just common sense to me so so do.


Here to my right and on the counter are four bottles of Goslings Dark Bermuda Rum...151 proof. I also have up in my radio room another 6 bottles or 151 proof Bacardi rum. Some of these bottles are almost 10 years olde. I have opened none of them.

I consider them bartering or trading items....in SHTF or TEOTWAWKI. I have other such libations in addition to regular rubbing alcohol.

I am not much of a drinker..but am aware of their value should conditions change.

Been thinking about similar with Tobacco or coffee..mayhap instant coffee for longevity/shelf life...but I am not a tobacco user...

Thinking about these for barter or trade.


My parents ...may they rest in Peace....told me stories of what it was like in post WW2 Germany when the monies would not buy much or there was not much to buy. A can of Spam was gold...so too was coffee or tea...

You see!!???

But first you take care of your own and re assess from there...you always try to take care of your own first.


Watcherchris
Not an Ishmaelite.

 

Money within the concentration camps during the Holocaust:

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/ghetto-concentration-camp-money

 

Good morning Watcherchris,

Your folks told you stories so true it's difficult to grasp them.

A story I grew up with from a couple of uncles and fathers of my friends was about soldiers standing in line to wait for the US military theater to open to buy a ticket for the show. This was in Germany and Austria. As soon as the theater opened and the line started to move, the soldiers would throw down their not completely finished cigarettes.

The locals of the area's civilian population would rush to collected these discarded cigarettes and finish them.

Remembering these stories helped make me a Prepper. I'm no hoarder; just A Prepper.

 

Here's a story about what NOT to use as trade in the here-and-now. Big Brother tracking plastic.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-carlson-bank-of-america-customer-data-feds-capitol-riot

"In the days after the Jan. 6 riot at the Capitol, Bank of America went through its own customers' financial and transaction records. These were the private records of Americans who had committed no crime; people who, as far as we know, had absolutely nothing to do with what happened at the Capitol. But at the request of federal investigators, Bank of America searched its databases looking for people who fit a specific profile.

"Here's what that profile was: '1. Customers confirmed as transacting, either through bank account debit card or credit card purchases in Washington, D.C. between 1/5 and 1/6. 2. Purchases made for Hotel/Airbnb RSVPs in DC, VA, and MD after 1/6. 3. Any purchase of weapons or at a weapons-related merchant between 1/7 and their upcoming suspected stay in D.C. area around Inauguration Day. 4. Airline related purchases since 1/6.'

"The first thing you should notice about that profile is that it's remarkably broad. Any purchases of anything in Washington, D.C.; any overnight stay anywhere in an area spanning three jurisdictions and hundreds of miles; any purchase not just of legal firearms, but anything bought from a 'weapons-related merchant,' T-shirts included; and any airline-related purchases -- not just flights to Washington, but flights to anywhere, from Omaha to Thailand. That is an absurdly wide net.

"Bank of America identified a total of 211 customers who met these 'thresholds of interest.' At that point, 'Tucker Carlson Tonight' has learned, Bank of America turned over the results of its internal scan to federal authorities, apparently without notifying the customers who were being spied upon. Federal investigators then interviewed at least one of these unsuspecting people. That person, we've learned, hadn't done anything wrong and was cleared.

"Imagine if you were that person. The FBI hauls you in for questioning in a terror investigation, not because you've done anything suspicious, but because you bought plane tickets and visited your country's capital. Now they're sweating you because your bank, which you trust with your most private information, has ratted you out without your knowledge. Because Bank of America did that, you are being treated like a member of Al Qaeda."

Note to preppers: Pay cash for ammo. Pay cash for anything that may push some Bolshevik button in D.C. (District of Collectivism).

There are those who call preppers paranoid. In the coming months, such people are going to learn about why having faith in government can get you hurt. If there hasn't been a military takeover of America by this time next year and this administration in DC is still extant, people will be looking for anyway possible to avoid the crushing taxation that will then exist. Leftist government = heavy taxation and heavy inflation.

Maybe we Americans will get a tax on meat and cheese as is being considered in the U.K..
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/20...ies-uks-conservative-govt-to-tax-meat-cheese/
.

 

---- I am indeed paranoid and for good reason . But with the likely food prices escalating , preppers will fall back onto their survival plans . My group definitely will get out of our spoiled , lazy mode and increase our wild game gathering from our present level if store food skyrockets . We have the ability for total self sufficiency but like everyone else will take the easy way to procure food until it hits an unacceptable level .

 

Spot on! Grocery store prices are already headed up up up. Meat is going to get expensive.

Here in Southern Appalachia, there are hundreds of thousands of hunters who provide their family's table-meat via killing deer. I once worked with a young man who did so. He'd made the mistake of starting two families ... simultaneously so, thus more kids to feed. His choice caliber = 6mm Remington. He made neck shots so as to not damage much, if any, meat -- every chunk of meat counted. This fellow you'd not want to make angry -- I've got stories. Me, I really liked this fellow; chipper upbeat positive person. God bless him and his family ... and his other family.
.

 

As I have said before I don't make any plans for trade but if it should become something useful I posses the ability to produce goat milk for trade . Theoretically by keeping my yearly goat offspring could double my milk output each year as goats normally give birth to two and perhaps three offspring yearly . That would be a never ending trade item available for trade every week of the year .

 

LOL! Yes. I have over 500 lbs. of course and fine table salt for cooking and curing meat. Have more than enough course salt for trading. About 60 miles from me is a salt spring that old timers used to make salt. I haven't been able to find the properties owner (not local) so use probably wouldn't be an issue in a SHTF situation. Salt is so cheap everyone should have it if they have a dry space to store it. Anyone that has animals will want to make sure they have salt and mineral salt for there livestock.

I still think some of the simplest items will be the most in demand for trade. Salt, honey/sugar, alcohol, spices/herbs, fabric, leather & tools are all the items that will be the most needed that will be the easiest for preppers to store and make.

Dale

 

Really good info here.

Oft times we forget the basic basics.

Salt can also be used to lure-in game such as deer. May not be "fair" hunting, but like anyone is going to give half a sh## post-SHTF.

Post SHTF, all spoiled food can be used as bait for birds and small game. My people threw NOTHING away. People at every job I have ever held have made fun of me for "hoarding" ... until they needed a certain type of wire, or connector, or ... . I've been made fun of by coworkers for having/storing/eating canned food at work. They've made fun of me for eating kippered herrings.

Spices? History teaches that there were wars fought over the spice trade.

Ouchyhol? High-proof alcohol can be used for anesthesia, cleaning of wounds, cleaning of machines, fire-starter, mold-killer, ... .

I have some huge rolls of thick plastic. Tossed them in the basement. Why? Plastic sheets can be used as a temporary roof patch. Temporarily cover a broken window with plastic. Equipment left out can be covered with plastic for the time being. I have tarps in my vehicles; however in a pinch, nothing is wrong with some big sheets of plastic. They can be used as temporary ground cover. A big part of staying alive for humans is simply staying dry. Plastic sheeting can keep you from being exposed to wind. If you get wet and you are in any sort of windy conditions, you can get hypothermia faster than anyone wants to think about.

So I'm stupid for having rolls of plastic that I'll probably never use-up.

Let'em laugh.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/how-long-does-it-take-to-get-frostbite-or-hypothermia-2014-1

Plastic sheeting; what thickness do I need? =




Sheeting in 6 mil is a bit thin, but will get the job done for most all light jobs. Sheeting in 10 mil. starts getting expensive. This stuff is sold in all home supply stores. In the following links, scroll down to see all of the products.

https://www.homedepot.com/s/%226%20mil%22?NCNI-5

Want to go big and heavy-duty (part of my basement area is just crawl-space; I have some plastic somewhat less robust than in next link; nevertheless, the stuff works):

https://www.homedepot.com/p/BOEN-40...ier-Crawl-Space-Under-Floor-PS-4100/306531573

Online, you can get any configuration of sheeting you can imagine:

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=12+mil+p...=c&hvqmt=b&tag=mh0b-20&ref=pd_sl_16jsdn47i7_b
.

 

Some foods have long shelf lives:

https://www.stilltasty.com/Articles/view/35

pepper corns
https://www.stilltasty.com/Fooditems/index/16547

Dry food stuffs will last much longer if you toss-in oxygen-absorber packs and desiccant packs.

I like to keep posting over and over information on oxygen-absorber packs. I do this for new readers. Here's a link showing trillions of billions of choices for O2 absorber packs:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=oxygen+absorber+packets&atb=v140-1&iax=shopping&ia=shopping

Desiccant packets:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=decicant+packets&atb=v140-1&iar=shopping&iax=shopping&ia=shopping

Store dried beans and rice in glass jars. Toss in O2 absorbers. Listen, you do NOT have to vacuum-seal dried foods. If you want to vacuum seal, go for it; but, dried rice and beans that you buy at the grocery, they have a long shelf life even if you didn't put them in jars and reduce the oxygen.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=storing+j...bsorber+packs&atb=v140-1&iax=videos&ia=videos

In future, when people won't be able to jaunt down to the grocery for food items, a quart jar of rice will be very valuable. People know what it is. A jar of rice is a jar of rice. Rice keeps people alive all around our planet. It is, in-and-of-itself, a thing of value. A stack of cases of jars of rice only takes-up the corner of a room. There are multiple meals to be made out of just one quart jar.

Toss in a bouillon cube when cooking rice to give it the flavor you wish. Bouillon cubes have long shelf life because they have so much salt in them. I put back jars of bouillon cubes.

I can imagine that spices and bouillon cubes will be valuable when things go sideways. Remember, doctors and nurses have kids. Post-SHTF, if you need medical help, you'll be able to buy yourself treatment services with food. Remember to keep KoolAid packs for the kids.
.

 

For future trade, buy cheap single-shot shotguns and the ammo for their gauge. Buy used shotguns that are safe, of course; don't buy "fixers". Single-shots? Why not. They have put untold millions of tons of food on supper tables for centuries. Too, you keep the pumps for yourself and your family. Single-shots are less likely to be used against you -- especially when you are surrounded by armed friends and family during the trade.

You may not like the old shotgun you just bought, so during hard times, just trade it for what you need but couldn't anticipate needing. When the government goes bankrupt, goes totally toes-up, there isn't going to be any federal agencies to micromanage common trade. When we get multiple national SHTF events happening and simultaneously so, nothing is going to matter except survival.
.

 

"I still think some of the simplest items will be the most in demand for trade. Salt, honey/sugar, alcohol, spices/herbs, fabric, leather & tools are all the items that will be the most needed that will be the easiest for preppers to store and make." -- Dale

Again, great post.

re: Tools. Oh, yes! We preppers have too many tools. I'll not go into how many separate tool-boxes I have (to include a 5' tall multi-drawered roll about).

So we think that everyone simply has tools. No they don't. And, I mean people do not even own basic tools, hammers, screwdrivers, pliers, and such.

I imagine that each and every tool of mine is precious ... until this summer when I discovered some extra screwdrivers I'd shoved back in a drawer in my outside shop. So, Mr. Geezer starts himself on a screwdriver inventory. It was embarrassing. I've kept destroyed screwdrivers and good screwdrivers and so-so screwdrivers and ... .

Know what, I didn't toss them. I just made a place to stack the puppies. Times get hard, I'll put the damaged screwdrivers to the grinding wheel, resurrect them, and use them for barter. If I sell them for some change, we'll be talking "1964 and before" coins. Twenty dollar bills will be useful as toilet paper. Today's minted tokens (zinc crap) will in future just be in the way. Copper-plated zinc pennies make decent targets; using chewing gum, stick them to a useless board for .22 plinking. Nickels do have copper 75% and nickel 25%.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_(United_States_coin)

"Meanwhile, in an attempt to avoid losing large quantities of circulating nickels to melting, the United States Mint introduced new interim rules on December 14, 2006, that criminalized the melting and export of pennies (which as of 2013 cost 1.83 cents to produce) and nickels. Violators of these rules can be punished with a fine of up to $10,000, five years imprisonment, or both. The rules were finalized on April 17, 2007.[113][110] The melt value of a nickel for some time was more than five cents, including nearing over one-and-a-half times its face value in May 2007. Since then, the supply and demand of the coin's composition metals have stabilized. A nickel's melt value fell below its face value from late 2008 through mid-2010, and more recently again from late mid-2012 .[114] In February 2014, it was reported that the Mint was conducting experiments to use copper-plated zinc (the same composition used for the United States 1 cent coin) for the nickel.[115]"

A penny shotgun? NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Brain-tot-Biden MUST ban this!


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Heavy duty plastic sheeting is great for waterproofing things like root cellars and underground living structures. Preventing water penetration greatly increases any type of roof. I used to take a 8 x 8 foot sheet of plastic with me to lay on the roof of fighting/OP/LP positions before putting sandbags and camo material on them so that when it rained we stayed a lot dryer while in the hole. Dry is comfortable and wet is miserable.

Something else to think about on the subject of spices is that some spices that are loved (like black pepper, vanilla, etc.) won't be available after a life altering event. I try to come up with things that will substitute for hard to get items, like growing chili pepper and other hot peppers that I dry and grind up as a substitute. I have read but haven't tried it yet is nasturtium leaves dried and powdered. We grow nasturtiums for there spicy flowers but I haven't tried the leaves yet. You are also supposed to be able to use rose water or wild rose hips as a substitute for vanilla. I would love to hear what others use and think on the subject. I've dug medicinal roots my whole adult life but there aren't as many native plants that I know of that are good for flavoring food. Others experience?

Dale

 

Good morning Dale,

I don't currently use but have practiced and am prepared to use if/when Hades event;

Seaweed serves as a spice when roasted (roasted nori). Besides its snack status, it's loaded with nutrients / vitamins.

All the seaweeds are not here in the Chesapeake Bay (algae, nori ,kelp) I don't think,..... but what is present works well.

For health ingredients, seaweed exceeds many meats, citrus fruits, milk.

Learned all this when working on SEA offshore oil rigs. Some time ago, I practiced harvesting some, and prep by roasting. It definitely works as a spice and decent food.

 

SALT!!!! Lots and lots of salt. There have been entire civilizations that based their money on salt. We take it for granted but the fact is that in many places it just isn't to be easily found. There used to be an old saying about someone that was useless..."He isn't worth his salt." Without it you will get deathly sick and it is also so useful for so many things like salt curing meat. You don't need to store a lot of table salt instead go buy 50-pound sacks of pool salt wich is just coarsed ground mineral salt from mines. If you let people go a few months without salt through a hot summer salt will trade one for one for gold.

Now days we never think about it because EVERYTHING that you can buy in the way of prepared food is saturated in salt. Trying to reduce your sodium intake for health purposes will make you very aware of this but in nature that just isn't the way it is. Without enough salt in your diet, you will start to cramp with the least level of effort and you will have a hard time holding fluid in your body.

In the old days when I was young when people at less preprocessed foods every place that I worked had salt tablet dispensers to keep you from sweating yourself dry. this was also before air conditioning, so people sweated and lost a lot of salt. When you become low the taste of salt changes and becomes almost sweet and you will crave it. I was raised doing things like working in fields and such and salt water will tast almost like lemonaid when you need it bad. I tossed bales of hay for a nickle on the wagon and then another nickel into the hay loft and you craved salt. You will catch yourself licking the sweat off your arms.

The lack of air-conditioning is going to be one of the killers in the first summer after the fall. People are not used to that sort of heat and don't know how to deal with it. Most people are pale as a fishes belly and are going to get burnt to a crisp. Without salt they will start dying by the middle of June in the South.

IF you don't have salt you will seek alternatives and one of those places is in blood. Many African tribes make blood and milk a major part of their diets. Most people bleed their animals at butchering and waste a major portion of the available minerals and salts. In places where salt is not a natural easily found thing a salt block set out in the woods is about the best animal attractant you can have.

Table salt is iodized and you will need some of that too but for general use mineral salt in 50 pound bags is cheaper and probably better for most uses. You might also have a few dozen salt blocks if you have live stock because they will need it too. You can put the blocks out for a few days a month and then pull them back in to make them last longer and in a bind you can grind them and use them yourself.

 

Good morning Old Geezer and Dale,

A tangent to plastic sheeting;

Tailored to my specific preparedness plans - mostly focused to infantry style evac status, I have a small inventory of thin mil "pre-cut" plastic vinyl shower curtins and liners.

For the shack I already have a couple of non-flamable truck tarps pre-riggfed with cables to hoise onto roof - in theory, at least. Sigmund Freud was coreect; the hman body deteriotates with aging (CIVILIZATION AND ITS DSCONTENT).

The shower curtins are packed, folded for GOOD operations and here in shack are super for window repair, related.

The price is right. The adhesives and tapes cost much more.

Foot Note: a white shower curtin augmenting a pack or flight bag's carrying strap(s)/harness as cushioning, can serve as a SAR rescue medium when cut up in 6" strips to make an "X" on ground - not snow-covered of course - . They can also serve as light-utility drag blankets.

 

I always carry one of those light rolled up painter’s plastic covers in my day pack. It is small and light but has so many uses. If you end up spending a cold night in the forest if you will gather a bunch of loose leaves then cover them with more leaves and then top it with branches to protect the leaves from blowing away, you have a snug nest for even a really cold night. I get them for about a dollar and they might make trade goods.

I feel like in the early days of a collapse. You will need to maintain a very low profile and depending on your plan and place the back woods may be the best choice. In that case temporary, nearly invisible shelters will be important. As nice as a house is you will not want to appear especially prosperous for sure and will need to set up for a serious defense plan. If you take off these rolls of plastic with be of priceless value to keep you and your stuff safe and dry.

 

Antibiotics will be like gold after a while. People now don't think much about infections. You get sick or cut and you take a pill and forget it. Just one generation ago that was not how it went. A cold that went to pneumonia was deadly. An infected wound led to parts being cut off to keep them from killing you with blood poisoning. There was a real reason why people say, "God Bless you" when someone sneezes. In the years following any major collapse simple illnesses are going to be killers because people now don't consider the sniffles a real problem.

Most of the time it isn't BUT if you don't take care it can lead to pneumonia or bronchitis and have fatal results. My Grandfather refereed a bi-district football game in a cold rain with the sniffles and two weeks later he was dead. He was a big, athletic, healthy man in the prime of life at 36 and pneumonia killed him fast.

People these days have weak immune systems because we are dependent on pills and drugs to fight the diseases for us. Take that away and that first winter is going to be a killer.

 

Good morning TexasDanm,

We plan and act alike.

I just expand word "antibotics" to include the rest of medical/first aid/ health care stuff.

My "clinic" kits, both for sheltering in place and evac, also have the ointments, balms, related.

There are a couple of decent companies that make good temperature controlled (within large range) beer-type containers for basic medicines needing temp control above freezing and below our summer's max heat. One company I know of, Arctic Zone, makes the smallest belt-size mountable container (not for beer but several minatures [spell?] can be loaded in this size), in case must EVAC ASAP if not faster.

 

Like you Lonewolf I don't take a lot of antibiotics preferring to instead allow my body to do the work. I am a really fast healer and I think that is in part because I have allowed my body to be strong and not dependent on outside assistance.

That said though, in the post apocolyptic world there won't be a Doctor or hostital standing by to take care of you if things go sideways. You had better have both the drugs on-hand to prevent a small injury from turning deadly and/or trade materials to allow you to get what you need.

Trade is a must in any sort of situation past a pure hand to mouth starvation sort of sociaty. No matter how well prepared you are there are going to be things that you will need that you won’t have and some of those things may be life or death needs.

Eventually some sort of money will be another necessity. All money really is is a medium that allows people to turn the things that they have into the things that they might need or want even when the person that they are dealing with might not want or need what you have to offer. Without this each person has to grow their own food. A Doctor for example might starve to death waiting on someone with food to trade to need his services.

In the past people died from shaving nicks that got infected. Without modern medicine nearly any injury that breaaks the skin can be lethal. So along with the antibiotic pills you need antibiotic ointments and such and sterile gauze to protect even small wounds.

Once things begin to settle down and return to a less violent norm the best trade stock may well be knowledge. You can’t know how to do or make everything. I know this is true because I have honestly tried to learn as many different skills as possible. There are just so many things that you or some member of your group might want that eventually these special skills will have great value. I know that at first all that will matter is surviving for another day but inevitably people will want and need more than that.

 

You can't eat gold or silver.

 

Good morning Lonewolf,

Your point is correct.

Yet, there are other factors that get into this equation. One is personal injury to the Prepper. Although cobwebs serve as a mild form of penecilan (spell?), if injured, it's obviously better and easier to reach for the med kit's RX prescribed pharma. Another reason - especially for here - is a mandatory evacuation. Same scenario: reach for the bottle of alcohol rather than start the process of making some.