What to use for future trade?

Discussion in 'Essential Items' started by TJames13, Jun 13, 2016.

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  1. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    That is true, Lonewolf.
     
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  2. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Just got a load of salt.

    Actually, got it this AM but only now the yellow stick-on glue dried to shelve away.

    This is the grocery store type of salt.

    Already loaded up with wellhouse salt.

    Admittedly, if a choice of me acquiring a gold mine or a salt mine, ......
     
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  3. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    Negative Lonewolf...he is not correct....


    Silver has medicinal properties of which someone does not want you to know.

    About a year ago when I hurt my hand...I received bandages which had silver on one side of them.

    Silver is anti bacterial...anti microbial.

    I make liquid silver from sliver rods...and use it to spray inside my mask. I can do the same from silver ingots.

    I also take a teaspoon of it a day. It is called Colloidal Silver.


    I do not remember coming up wherein you saw bandages with silver on one side of them. What I remember seeing is alcohol, Iodine, and if I recall correctly something called Mercurochrome or such.

    Mayhap the olde folks knew something we have long since forgotten with real silver silverware...

    Did stainless steel dumb us down???


    I keep three silver dollars in my Levi coin pocket ..real 90% fine silver American dollars also there a one oz. Canadian Maple Leaf and in my left side pocket three more real American 90% Silver dollars.

    Call it superstition....but I've had four C19 tests and so far negative. Also taking vitamins and certain minerals on schedule.. Been exposed to others too who have tested positive...family members..

    Nonetheless silver has medicinal properties.


    You cannot eat brass, lead, or copper as well. But the nonsense is noted.

    I cannot eat the solar powered scientific calculator I keep in my daily BOB and another like it here on my computer desk.
    I've also put back a couple of slide rules..


    My non Ishmaelite .02,
    Watcherchris
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2021
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  4. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Future trade crop:

    upload_2021-2-8_19-49-8.png
     
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  5. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    lol lol lol Olde Geezer....that is not an option available to me but I have invested in 6 bottles of Bacardi 151 rum for their octane content and when I found out Bacardi 151 is no longer being produced I switched to purchasing Goslings 151 Dark Bermuda Rum..again mostly for the octane content. Will be adding to my stash of Goslings over time...slowly but not with the priorities of other preps....but high octane alcohol is definitely on the prep list to stash. Mostly for medicinal.....but......

    Also with it in mind as a trade/barter item.

    Watcherchris
    Not an Ishmaelite.
     
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  6. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Ever Clear!!! a small half-pint flask can make for a party for several people. It also is useful as a firestarter and an antiseptic. I have a metal flask of it in my go bag.
     
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  7. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    Ever clear....Wow!!!! That's the high octane stuff.

    They used to sell it here at the ABC stores...but stopped. So too with a high octane Apricot Brandy...that used to catch fire..but they stopped selling that too..years ago.

    What's up with that???

    IN with these four 151 proof bottles of Goslings rum next to me on the counter here is a bottle of moonshine which someone gave me as a gift. It is only 103 proof according to the label. I remember the stuff being much higher in the octane department years ago.

    Whats up with that too??? Inflation????

    Watcherchris
    Not an Ishmaelite
     
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  8. Max rigger

    Max rigger Master Survivalist
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    Your dressing probably contained silver sulfadiazine, your not going to make that at home from silver? Careful taking colloidal silver before you develop Argyria and possibly other conditions. Silver has some antibacterial properties and so does honey with a big plus being you can eat honey. Look at peer reviewed articles on colloidal silver.

    Post SHTF people would queue up for rice or pasta to feed the kids, you'd be lonely standing there trying to trade silver.
     
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  9. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Max,

    You're right about not making D-I-Y medical dressings with bandages with silver - or other pharma at home if not having the complete pharma setup.

    I tried to add these dressings to my med kit but am admitting to a failure. This is my biggest failure in re preparedness. It is not about access - a difficult enough project but COST ... going through a Medical Doctor for RX and then the actual purchase. Sometimes temperature control is a requirement.

    Besides the silver, there are now dressings with copper, zinc and other products.

    The newest one my MD told me about is a dressing with antibiotics that when placed over wound / injury allows the products to get absorbed into body along with some other stuff. The dressing itself dissolves / dissapates on body. This is a Prepper's "Love at first sight".
     
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  10. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    Max Rigger and other members..

    I am well aware or the symptom/effect called Argyria. You'd have to take a lot of liquid silver to get it...and I am not taking that much. I also stock honey from time to time as I so do with 151 proof rum. Not the immediate priority but keep it often in mind...particularly when going to stores which sell it in large bottles not these small bottles. Honey also has a long shelf life.



    Listening to the My Pillow guys explanation of what happened. Interesting and has more detail than any other explanation I have heard. Most explanations are void of details.

    Very interesting. Have many of the members heard it???


    Watcherchris
    Not an Ishmaelite.
     
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  11. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good afternoon Watcherchris,

    Besides ther premier health foods like tree nuts and some energy bars (I place much emphasis on packaging in case of evac), honey, the nectar of the gods, is on the top 5 list - for both sheltering in place and on thre march. Honey is ultra long lasting and can withstand extreme temperatures. This place is loaded with honey.

    In reply, No, not familiar with the My Pillow Specifics.

    Foot Note: 10 sandbags stuffed into a sandbag constitutes a pillow.
     
  12. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Half pint, even if it is thermonuclear proof, wouldn't take care of the friends I've had.

    I've known several guys who'd first drink a full pint of 90 proof before going out on the town -- I'm talkin one individual man drinking a pint just to get the evening started. Fellas I've known would put away in a night enough to kill three fraternity brats.

    Not me, by-god -- that'd take the top off my head. I buy sipping whiskey/y. If you don't love the flavor of it, don't drink it. If you gotta get drunk, then you gotta big problem.
     
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  13. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    What to use for future trade? GOLD!

    upload_2021-2-10_20-31-17.png
     
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  14. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    I wouldnt trade gold for food post SHTF and I dont think there are many who will.
    I live in a low population area and there will be an even lower population post SHTF, any trading is a long time down the line, people will first have to survive then adapt to the new circumstances and I dont think there will be many who will be able to do that.
    actually finding someone to trade with post SHTF will be a good trick in itself and the majority will have nothing to trade, just what they stand up in. trading will not be safe for a long time.
     
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    1. Old Geezer
      Lone Wolf, did you read the stampings on the gold "coins" of which I showed their image? Utility, man, utility! Post SHTF, won't be the time to go reproducing or contracting some new mystery disease.
       
      Old Geezer, Feb 11, 2021
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  15. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    By lonewolf....

    You are selling people short here lonewolf....
    People trade or barter to get the things they do not have and cannot make or make in expedient time frames.

    Sickness/illness is just such an time frame...

    People will quickly trade and barter for medicine and even more radical behaviors.

    You need to rethink what you stated in the quotes.

    It is all survival...our social and economic affluence often deceives us about many things. Trade and or barter....a type of monetization... is survival..

    People will take great risks for their loved ones, their seed, their issue.... to trade/barter for medicines....for survival


    Watcherchris
    Not an Ishmaelite
     
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  16. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    Pragmatist,

    Here ..the My Pillow guy...

    Absolute Proof (michaeljlindell.com)


    Interesting and with more details than I've heard from other reports...

    Have bookmarked it before it too disappears as have so many u tube videos of late.

    I never liked censorship....


    Watcherchris]
    Not an Ishmaelite.
     
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  17. Max rigger

    Max rigger Master Survivalist
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    Why the 151 rum? Wray & Nephew is not much weaker and a dam sight cheaper (good drink as it happens).

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Pragmatist

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    Thank you, Watcherchris.

    Will click on now.
     
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  19. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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    I would be in big trouble with the wife , if I went out and traded food for liquor . Things like rubbing alcohol and peroxide is now inexpensive and there is not much of an excuse for not having an ample supply in the stash . I certainly am not expecting a sheeple to have something I would want to begin with . --- Even if I was so inclined to trade , I would not want to go to a trading party and hear all the begging and pitiful stories about why I should give them something . - A true story , I once had a woman get down on her knees on the court house square and beg me to take her son home with me . I turned her down . - I have no intentions of going and hearing all that pitiful stuff .
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2021
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  20. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    whilst preppers may have items to trade it is unlikely that anyone else will have, most who survive the initial event or events will probably have just what they stand up in, if you look at many emergencies around the world this is very much the case.and they are reliant on NGO for every piece of food they put in their mouths and every bottle of water, sometimes clothing too.
    in a TEOTWAWKI these agencies wont exist and they will have to survive on what they can find or take from others, they wont be trading they will be stealing!
    in this situation I will be avoiding all contact.
     
  21. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    No problem lonewolf ...I am not about to tell you how to drive your bus....

    I am just saying that people naturally gravitate to trade or commerce and it is so often better than conflict to get what one wants or needs.

    We tend historically to call this civilization.

    And Emergencies are one reason people will barter for medicines et al.....and trade or barter whatever they have.

    I have put back and vacuum sealed bottles of aspirin and Tylenol and Ibuprofen....they are cheap now...I will replace them as needed while they are cheap...and available.

    The usual pattern is to barter what you have that someone else needs. A difference in needs and thus values...

    If you both have the same thing ...a trade most likely will not take place.

    The other reason is planning for the future...still survival. To get the things one projects or plans to need..

    This area...Tidewater, Virginia is in the Olde Days called Colonial Virginia. Lots of Colonial times historical sites around here...lots of guided tours to visit and learn of historical trivia.

    Until then I had not a clue that nails were such an valuable commodity in the olde days...and often recycled from old buildings. So too sewing needles..very valuable. Today we just go out and get replacements.


    True....that excessive instability tends to kill off trade..but nonetheless trade continues.

    I remember my Mother Telling me that Grandpa used to take her out of the city at night...in this olde beater of a car to trade out in the country from the city Frankfurt, Germany after the war. Trading for meat, butter, vegetables, milk, eggs, against what the country people needed from the city and for which they could scrounge in the city.

    They had to carefully run the roadblocks or the police would stop them and keep all their goods..the police were as big a problem as were thieves. No body had much.

    And my mother would hold the key in the worn out ignition to keep the car engine going while Grandpa drove.

    Such were the conditions by which people who could live ...and knew how..would do....when they could even get gasoline...

    And my Grandpa was a soldier in WW1 and again in WW2...and survived hard conditions twice...


    People will do what they have to do against the inherent risks.



    Oh..and Max Rigger....the reason for the high octane rum is it is burnable....if needed in a pinch I will use it for fuel ...also it's antiseptic properties and of course it is available now.
    I do not much drink or imbibe if you prefer...but am aware of it's value in hard times..also it's shelf life.
    Never been much of a drinker..known too many career drinkers.

    Mom and Pop tell of the post WW2 stories in Germany....Alcohol was in demand/scarcity so too tobacco...a can of spam was gold...et al. Tobacco was as good as cash...et al. Mom tells of running the coffee grounds through several times to get as much out of it as possible...coffee too was gold...so too sugar and or honey...any kind of sweetener.

    My Dad tells of getting a German Gunsmith to modify a WW2 German Mauser K98 to American 30.06 caliber...mount a scope....and sporting stock..double set triggers..Blueing..in short sporterize it..
    Cost him $20.00 American and two cartons of Lucky Strikes. Such were conditions economically for the German People.
    Two cartons of Luckys....that guy was rich...and cigarettes' were rationed...


    Lonewolf....

    One problem I notice about us Yanks.....

    And that is that we as Americans tend to take our economic affluence for granted....think this is normal....it is not.

    Most of the world does not live like this......and most Americans have not a clue....how difficult it can be for people in other nations.

    And most Americans have not a clue how quickly it can be gone...



    Watcherchris
    Not an Ishmaelite
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2021
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  22. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Post-SHTF, there will be areas, maybe even regions who will maintain rather advanced forms of civilization. Engineers, physicians, skilled machinists, technologists of every sort are now distributed all around the world.

    For instance, there may be those who look down their nose at Argentina. Rest assured there are brilliant people who live and work there -- even in remote regions therein. I've worked with them. Buenos Aires could get slam-dunked, but the country would return. Indeed Argentina has been slammed with a full-on depression and came back. There are rural regions of North America and maybe even Europe that will do better than just "get-by" post SHTF.

    If the major powers went cobalt balloons, now that would be catastrophic beyond words.

    Me, I think that after a BAD SHTF, even an Ebola plague, there will continue to exist pockets of civilization.

    The urban, suburban, and many rural areas will be goners post-SHTF.

    This is one reason among many that I like living in agricultural regions that have small towns, but profoundly few cities over 50K in population. I like being able to drive 200-300 miles and be surrounded by farms and forests. Such is where I live now. People here can grow their own food, there are thousands who are trained in some form of medical care, and God only knows how many who can fix/build dang-near anything to include the ability to rebuilt power generation facilities. Now in this region, finding a city over 100,000 people, you'll have yourself a full fuel tank and a bit of a drive. Towns that are county seats go 50,000; however, once leaving the city limits, you are either in farmland, or forested mountains. Home properties inside city limits have gardens and workshops.

    I've unfortunately had to live in a city suburban area (under 500 thousand, but that was WAY too populated for me). Even there, I had wood-burning capability and a productive garden. My wife and I hated the place and got out of there as soon as we could.

    Such agricultural / forested / small-industry regions as I have described above, if not annihilated by plague or HOT radioactive fallout, will be the seeds for the regrowth of post-SHTF civilization. The good-heartedness, spirituality, and work-ethic of the people in such regions will re-establish a clean resurrection.

    Human nature is flawed. When humanity begins to become too packed-in, too decadent, too downright evil, then it needs to be cut back mightily. The good farmer burns off the chaff and turns over the soil in preparation for a new growing season. He keeps the seeds of the most robust of his crops. Burn-offs may be frightening, but the Good Farmer knows best that which must be done.
    .
     
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  23. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    the people that are engineers, scientists and medical professionals are more likely to live in cities and large towns over here, not in rural areas, especially one like mine that is miles away from the motorway system, these motorways are used to get to places fast and my area of the country is predominately agriculture and tourism and has a slower pace of life.
    such people therefore will probably be in the first wave of mortality post SHTF.
    the idea that civilisation will rebuild itself immediately post SHTF is a fallible one, at least in the UK it is, such rebuilding will not happen for many decades once the population fall has stabilised, and depends on how far it has fallen, any population growth will depend on how good or bad each annual harvest is.
     
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  24. Max rigger

    Max rigger Master Survivalist
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    @watcherchris

    "Oh..and Max Rigger....the reason for the high octane rum is it is burnable....if needed in a pinch I will use it for fuel ...also it's antiseptic properties and of course it is available now.
    I do not much drink or imbibe if you prefer...but am aware of it's value in hard times..also it's shelf life.
    Never been much of a drinker..known too many career drinkers."

    You can burn, clean wounds and drink ethanol and its a heck of a lot cheaper. As for using it for booze trade, I don't think people will worry too much about its quality so they'll be happy enough with cheap vodka.

    Have you tried Balkan 176 vodka? its 88% abv, good solid drink. I've tried home brewed pine needle vodka off a fella from Norway...powerful stuff !!!
     
  25. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    not just Yanks my friend,
    over here in Britain most people are used to things being available 24/7/364 and they panic when things are not, hence the panic buying at the start of the pandemic.
    I wouldnt trade alcohol, not that I will be trading for reasons already stated, but trading alcohol could lead to a lot of problems, I also wouldnt trade guns or ammunition, even trading knives could be dangerous in a post SHTF world.
    I still think my way is best, stay away from everyone else and live a basic simple life post collapse.
     
  26. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    I cannot argue that one with you lonewolf...and will not try. It is pretty much common sense.


    But We are not islands per se....

    Sooner of later we will make some kind of contact....and trade will ensue..

    Give you an example Lonewolf.....

    Since my lady friend passed a couple of years ago...I have been going it alone....
    It is lonesome out here.

    Ready to get out into circulation a bit but was shocked after so many years off the marketplace to find how aggressive many women are out here among the two legged wildlife. I reckon I have lived a sheltered life so to speak....only to discover that todays male is not necessarily the "Hunter Gatherer!!"

    I often and very much like my solitude but am not an Island per se.




    Max...I don't drink vodka....for some reason I never took to it. I seldom drink alcohol period..
    Not against drink..but have known entirely too many career alcoholics. I just slid back the door to the bottom shelf wherein are stored my canned goods and in there are five fifths of Crown Royal and a bottle of Amaretto...in addition to up on top this counter of the four bottle of Goslings Dark 'Bermuda 151 and two bottles of wine..

    They are there when I want them.

    I have also put back plenty of rubbing alcohol...preferably 91%...but with the pandemic you find mostly 70% now days.

    That too is going to be a barter item...so too Hydrogen peroxide....or any kind of anti biotic ointment.


    Thanks to all for their posts.

    Watcherchris
    Not an Ishmaelite.
     
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  27. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    Hey.....to the members...here...

    I have been enjoying this gadget called a Firestick...and have gotten rid of my cable television package deal and even gotten rid of my land line and just going with a cell phone. All I kept was the internet.

    But on this Firestick gadget I have verily enjoyed this thing called U Tube video for certain instructions and particularly watching these videos of people traveling about the globe in sailboats.

    This particular crew were sailing from Annapolis,Maryland down to the Caribbean Islands and in particular the American Virgin Islands. While there they went to Sams Club and restocked their sailboat in bulk.

    I noted in particular that they got plenty of canned Spam...no refrigeration needed....
    Surely they got other provisions but the canned Spam stood out to me.

    Watcherchris
    Not an Ishmaelite.
     
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  28. Max rigger

    Max rigger Master Survivalist
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  29. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    "A World that Operates by Financial Cheating and Unsound Money Is Doomed"

    https://www.thestreet.com/mishtalk/...inancial-cheating-and-unsound-money-is-doomed

    "'Under the present monetary system, there can be no justice or 'fair trading', because all the World's MONEY IS FAKE MONEY. No money in today's world is gold or silver, nor does it represent an unquestioned claim upon a stated amount of gold or silver.

    "'And a gigantic shooting war will mark the end of our times, as a result of the cheating involved - all because fake money was forced upon humanity.' -- Hugo Salinas Price

    "The dollar would collapse except for the simple fact the EU, Japan, and China are all doing similar things to varying degrees.

    "So we plod along, war after war, with some of them never ending as debt piles up so high that no one can even comprehend the numbers involved.

    "This will end in a currency crisis of some sort perhaps in conjunction with the shooting war Hugo envisions."

    With the Middle East going nuclear, the tripwire war seems not far in future.
    .
     
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  30. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    You have me reminiscing about the olde days....Olde Geezer.


    The olde boomer submarines with 16 ICBM missile tubes used to be overhauled here in this area until they were decommissioned.

    Until the Missile tubes were cleared by the radiation people...you waited for this event to be completed.

    I would standby and watch the Radiation technicians riding on the end of a crane in what is called a Bosuns Chair down into the depths of this missile tube and using their radiation/contamination monitors to read the walls and bottoms of the missile tubes. It was a long several days process to clear 16 Missile tubes for work to be done in them.

    If you were there and present you would pay particular attention to where on the tube they scanned with particular intensity....meaning they found a hot spot..and had to be decontaminated or isolated off.

    Then it would be your turn to go down in the bosuns chair and do your work...but you had to wait for them to clear the tubes radiation and contamination wise. We opened and closed these tube as needed.

    I knew and still know how many of these systems running these olde boats work...and how these missile tubes worked as well...what they carried and it's horrible purpose.

    You wondered if sane people were at the helm...meaning government leadership.

    I worry more about that today ..with some of the nonsense coming out of leadership....and trying to pass for leadership.

    You wonder who has the Football???


    It was the same thing the first time I worked to install lead shielding in a torpedo room. That was a wake up call when I realized for what it was.


    A side effect of this kind of work...is that you become aware of how dumb the average American is behind their cell phones remote controllers, and steering wheels...with their television and movie educations..

    And as I am oft want to describe...many of these people are voters.

    And yes...sanity in the middle east with many trying to go nuclear..indeed!!!


    And again as I have often stated....most Americans have not a clue as to the true nature of "The Sampson Option!!"

    Nor have most even heard of The Sampson Option...nor does leadership want us to know.

    Nor do most know how close it was to being carried out in the 1973 Yom Kippur War.


    But how about those Kardashians ...that ESPN!!??


    Watcherchris
    Not an Ishmaelite.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2021
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  31. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    First, I must say this, if we go full Mad Max SHTF full tilt boogie, then there may not even exist the commerce of barter. It will be each family or group for themselves, everybody else can just "go with God". If you need prescription drugs to live, you will only live as long as your medication supply holds-out. There will be a mass die-off of the world's population and nuclear wars, if they haven't already begun, will begin. If you are still alive, you probably will live in abject misery. What few humans left alive will behave like wolves.

    However, if the world slides into a hideous global RESET situation, then there will continue to exist barter and trade. Humans will need units of trade due to fiat currencies being annihilated. As internet servers go down, digital currencies will evaporate. During this time, there will be some seriously nasty wars going on and governments will predate on productive people to support military operations.

    Beans, bacon, and bullets will count -- especially if you grow your own beans and bacon to trade. Put back lead, bullet molds, reloading equipment, and primers -- everybody will need them and no one will let go of them. The Black Market will become THE market.

    During that time, I believe that pre-1965 American junk silver coins will be used as money/barter. Old coins are small, easily recognizable, and readily transferable. Governments will make such coins illegal to hold, thus greatly increasing their value and usage. This is why the current drug trade is so massively profitable and why drug gangs kill each other over turf.

    Here is an article talking about how silver is being used up and not being mined sufficiently to keep up with current demand:

    "'Physical Demand Will Completely Overwhelm Supply' And How Silver Could Wind Up Over $270"

    https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/p...elm-supply-and-how-silver-could-wind-over-270

    "More silver is being consumed than is being mined each year. Last year, approximately 850 million ounces were mined globally, with a demand of over one billion ounces. The industrial demand for silver is surging in an increasingly digital world, with new applications every day in green energy and battery powered vehicles.

    "At the same time annual global mine supply is declining and industrial demand is increasing, a global renaissance in monetary demand is upon us. This is happening while a handful of large Wall Street bullion banks have manipulated the price of monetary metals for decades, allowing some of the biggest money in the world to accumulate massive amounts of physical gold and silver at subsidized prices.

    "In geological terms, silver is found in a form called epithermal, meaning it is found very near the surface. This means that most of the big deposits were found years ago, even before the advent of enhanced imagery. In fact, only 30% of global mine supply comes from primary silver miners, while 70% comes as a byproduct of mining other metals such as copper and zinc.

    "In summary, the demand for physical silver is greater than the supply - the amount being mined each year. And it’s expanding. At the same time, silver is in the cross hairs of a new class of 'deep pocket' investors, from hedge funds to home offices. And the 'retail' demand is on the rise as well. As an example, our business at Miles Franklin is up between 300% - 400% and it is 95% silver. This new, large demand is, in part, being funded by savvy investors taking profits on stocks and Bitcoin.

    "Silver is perhaps the most undervalued asset on the planet and in my opinion, it presents the buying opportunity of a generation. The silver to gold ratio is currently 75 to 1. It takes 75 ounces of silver to “buy” one ounce of gold. Yet only seven ounces of silver are coming out of the ground for every one ounce of gold. In other words, at a 7 to 1 ratio, silver is nearly 11 times undervalued in its relation to gold. Further if you divide the current price of gold ($1,800) by 7, the current global mining ratio, you get a silver price of $270. With $3,000 gold, a minimum number I expect to see sooner than later, you get $428 an ounce.

    "According to the most recent estimates, the Chinese have 38,000 tonnes of gold. Broken down, 20,000 tonnes are owned by the state and 18,000 tonnes are owned by the people. That is almost 5 times as much as the 8133 tonnes the United States supposedly owns. Further, the new Chinese Belt, Road and Rail Initiative, connecting Asia and Africa and 70% of human population, is the most ambitious infrastructure project in human history and the new Digital Yuan will be the currency of choice for this project. This in effect introduces a new settlement currency to 7 out of 10 people in the world. Gold backing of their new digital Yuan with validation of the holdings on a distributed ledger would immediately create demand and credibility for the Digital Yuan. In one form or another, I believe that is exactly what will happen. You don’t want to own dollar denominated assets when that happens."
    .
     
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  32. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    The thing about trade is that you need to considder the people that will want and NEED what you have for trade. I'm not sure that I want an alchoholic KNOWING that I am holdimg alchohol. The same goes for any other drug! An adict is unpredictable and often dangerous to have around.
     
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  33. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    The trouble with trading is that we are relying on someone else having what we might require, I dont call that SELF reliance.
    in a low population area already, like here, just finding anyone else post SHTF would be a problem, never mind someone that actually had anything.
     
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  34. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    What if you or your wife were to require medical treatment? Do people get broken bones / open fractures? Do you stock oral and intravenous antibiotics? Do you store liter bags of normal saline, 1-liter bags of dextrose? How good are you at suturing? If your wife develops a bowel obstruction, will you write her off? People in the dark ages died of really stupid things.

    Are you able to weld? Can you repair all tools and machinery?
    .
     
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  35. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    there will be no medical treatment post SHTF other than what can be done in home.
    nurses and doctors work in hospitals and will be in the front line and the first to go, besides any emergency hospital is over one hour away in normal times, post SHTF such travel will be impossible even if any medical people survived they wont have the equipment as all stocks will be depleted and not replaced. even family doctors dont live on the premises here.
    why do I need to weld, what machinery? I wont be using any machinery post SHTF (K.I.S.S. principle) , once the power grid goes down there is no electricity.
    life post collapse will never be the same again, alternative actions and remedies will be required, a completely different life style and attitude will be necessary, that I truly believe.
     
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  36. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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    Depending on someone else for your survival needs is a formula for failure .
     
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  37. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    EXACTLY!!! thank you.
     
  38. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I will lay low for a little while but where I live there will be a lot of survivors. Nobody is going to bomb the little hamlet I live nearest to. I live in a rather isolated place and my closest neighbors are my kids or friends.

    I don't believe that EVERYONE is going to die. After the idiots starve to death or get shot for trying to steal from people like me I fully expect to have a lot of decent people left. Nobody will survive for long totally isolated. You can't work a farm alone worth a crap. If you isolate yourself you will be a victum of the first band of thieves that rolls over you. If you get hurt you will starve to death unless you have others to help you until you get back on your feet.

    When the trash comes rolling out of the cities hungry and needing their drugs you need to be a part of a group that can handle a bunch of asshats that need killing. Alone they will just kill you and take what you have and then move on.
     
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    1. Old Geezer
      "Nobody will survive for long totally isolated." -- Thank you.
       
      Old Geezer, Sep 12, 2021
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  39. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    So, there is a grand total of one SHTF scenario, the Mad Max scenario? All other possibilities are impossibilities? Either it is all-out destruction or nothing? Wow. How simple.

    Truth is that there are all manner of collapses that could occur. Emergency agencies prepare for all sorts of horrors; I've been a part of the training. Y'know, the superpowers could let go with their cobalt bombs and all human life would go away no matter where you live -- even the Eskimo would go. Another is an economic collapse, or power grids going out, or ..........

    I know EMTs, paramedics, veterinarians, nurse practitioners, and others who I would rather have treat me than a bunch of physicians I've seen in action. Medical personnel of every ilk live in backwaters and the boonies. The military stores antibiotics in powder form that can be re-constituted at time of usage. Insulin is stored in powdered form and reconstituted prior to bottling.

    There may be some things that are all-or-none, however they are few and far between.

    Y'know these space aliens may be great at space travel but they are not good business men. I sold them the mineral rights to Earth's heavy metals and they fell for it. What did I get? I got a ticket on one of their space ships to get off Earth before the Big Strike they told me was going to happen just three years from now. See you guys, I'm off to greener planets!

    [​IMG]
    .
     
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  40. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    I've never bothered too much about the small , minor or short time events, like many here I have experienced them already , some several times over, and come out the other side, no I prepare for the events which alter life completely and need a different sort of lifestyle , one completely opposite to the one most people are living now, less technology, less fossil fuels, more hands on natural and closer to the earth.
    "anything that dosent kill you makes you stronger", right?
    when the collapse comes it will be large and it will be final, there will be no going back, ADAPT or DIE.
     
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  41. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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    I am on the same page as lonewolf of the idea of what constitutes a S.H.T.F. event . What some consider a catastrophe is only a bad event on my Richter scale . If society is able to function trade and rebuild then it doesn't reach the threshold I prepare for .--- Not that I am saying that it isn't good to also prepare for something such as a cat 5 hurricane and " I have been through many hurricanes including the eye of a cat 5 " "Camille " . That just is a bad year to try to survive in on my Richter scale and doesn't reach the S.H.T.F. mark on my scale .---- We have already entered the second dark ages . Some simply haven't comprehended yet what is waiting ahead .
     
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  42. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    During an economic collapse or power grid failures, urban areas will be hard hit. Looting and sporadic food deliveries will drive people out of the cities to locations where there is a greater availability of food, clean water, and more days of electrical feed, fewer rolling blackouts. Roads may be jammed but tens of thousands will get through. Too, government emergency agencies will try to move populations out of urban areas where there will be chaos and log-jams of supplies into areas the emergency agencies can better support. In the United States, there have been set-up FEMA camps for this purpose. Mass evacuation planning for London is also in place (been there since 2003 and likely long before that).

    Here are plans from 2018:

    https://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/mass_evacuation_framework_2018_v3.0_0.pdf

    The following outtakes / direct quotes from this document will be in the color BLUE

    LONDON RESILIENCE PARTNERSHIP
    Mass Evacuation Framework, version 3, 2018

    In the event of an incident requiring the evacuation of those who live, work or are
    visiting London, the London Resilience Partnership will be required to provide a
    coordinated, multi-agency response. This Framework is intended to provide
    guidance to responders at all levels on the way in which the evacuation of large
    numbers of people can be achieved.

    An incident requiring a mass evacuation is likely to be disruptive and
    challenging, with long-term impacts and a need for central coordination.
    This Framework is based on the planning assumption that a significant
    number of persons will self-evacuate and disperse and the majority of those
    displaced will make their own arrangements for shelter, whilst recognising
    that this may vary considerably based on the nature of the initiating incident
    and the areas affected.

    Executive Summary
    The purpose of this Framework is to offer guidance to responders managing a mass evacuation of displaced persons and, where appropriate, other living creatures. In this context, the term “evacuation” may take a range of forms dependent on the circumstances and will include self-evacuation and dispersal with or without the need of support. The underlying principle is that for persons not needing assistance existing public transport will be used. The underground, bus and rail networks will be utilised. Displaced persons will be directed to Evacuee Loading Points (i.e. existing transport infrastructure facilities near the evacuation area) and Evacuee Disembarking Points (i.e. stations where those evacuees requiring shelter will be dispatched to Local Authority care).

    The Framework has been developed by the Multi-Agency London Resilience Partnership Mass
    Evacuation Group (MEG). In addition to providing guidance, it is intended to support decision-
    making and expectation management across all multi-agency partners and stakeholders. The
    content facilitates a flexible, scalable and coordinated approach to managing an evacuation.

    ===========================

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/london-s-plan-for-evacuation-published-563481.html

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sassoon

    "What is known about Operation Sassoon

    " It lists Canary Wharf, Heathrow, Westminster, Whitehall and the City as possible targets.

    " Public transport loading points (known as HUBS) have been pre-determined; people will be expected to walk to these locations, from where they will then be transported to unloading points (known as HEADS). Special road routes, known as High Capacity Emergency Access Routes (HCEARS) have been designated for people who self evacuate in their own private vehicles, and to allow for the expedient access of emergency services vehicles arriving from outside London. There is a specific traffic plan to deal with the use of the M25 and the radial feeding motorways. It will have a reliance on police resources as blocking vehicles.

    " Railway stations have been identified within London, which are suitable for the embarkation of evacuees (Rail Hubs). Typically, these stations are the existing Central London termini, with suitable fall-backs also identified. In the event of a large-scale evacuation being invoked, the normal advertised timetable will be suspended and replaced by an evacuation service designed to provide a safe and simple means of transporting the maximum possible number of evacuees away from the affected area in the shortest possible time.

    " An air exclusion zone will be introduced over the affected areas.

    " Once evacuated, Local Authorities and the voluntary sector will provide for evacuees. Initial reception will provide basic accommodation, drinking water and toilet facilities for up to 48 hours after the incident.

    "Controversies over Operation Sassoon
    ...
    "Operation Sassoon would see railway stations outside the capital receiving Londoners escaping a disaster. Local authorities in neighbouring counties were deeply concerned that the local infrastructure would not cope with the sheer volume of people fleeing the capital. They have stressed to the London Resilience Forum that evacuation should be used as a last resort and only in the most 'catastrophic of circumstances'".

    Old Geezer's take: Were I the government of counties to which mass numbers of people were relocated I would be VERY ANGRY if we were not provided the means to house and feed these people! As I looked through the emergency plans I found, there was no mention (that I could find, zero mention, nothing) of how to take care of these folk. All I could find was that "relief agencies" in these localities would be responsible. Man, that is crazy! That is not planning in its worst form. I would call this "dumping" the problem on others. This is happening here in the USA wherein illegal aliens are being dumped in states ill-prepared to take these numbers. Too, here in the USA, these aliens have NOT been screened for covid infection. Big Brother in action!
    .
    .
     
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  43. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    A hell of a lot of gobblegook and govt speak but nowhere can I find where they expect to move people to. moving that number of people sounds good on paper but the reality would be utter chaos, like most of these studies. some of the numbers mentioned state moving 150,000 or so, the population of London is around 9 MILLION!!!
    the probability is that the event or events will overwhelm govt and population alike and nobody will be going anywhere, we dont have FEMA or the equivalent in the Uk and in past events people have ended up in sports halls, schools and other such places, none of which are suitable for long term residential use, the toilet facilities get backed up and fights erupt, hell they cant even house a few hundred or so illegal immigrants in an old army camp without riots.
    govt help in the UK tends to be of the "too little, too late" variety, past events bear this out.
    Brits dont evacuate, not even in "the blitz", sure when the lights go off or we get a bit of snow some "vulnerable"people are moved to the local community centres of the affected areas but its normally a couple of dozen or so, not thousands, and its usually less than 48 hours, not some full scale city evacuation, I doubt that is even possible in America ever mind a small island like Britain.
     
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  44. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    In the United States, FEMA authorities along with state governors will mobilize Army Reserve and National Guard units to bring about transportation needs. Railways will get nationalized very rapidly. Schools will be shut down and school buses will be used to transport as many people as possible out of disaster areas.

    I would say that the military of the United Kingdom would be mobilized to bring about mass transportation needs. The destinations will be to those areas where there are resourses. Moving people from one urban area to another would only exacerbate existing logistic issues. Likely counties would be those with seaports so that food, fuel, and other materials could be shipped-in. The Navy would be of great service because the roads would be packed with refugees. The Army engineering units would be used to set-up tent cities and pre-fabricated units -- that is what military engineering units do here in the U.S.. Where bridges are out, engineering units come in and install deployable bridges in a matter of hours.
     
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  45. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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  46. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    SHTF events such as dirty bomb attacks would mandate evacuations. A terrorist attack on an urban power distribution network would also bring about the need to thin-out city populations and move them elsewhere.
     
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    1. TMT Tactical
      The worm in the apple problem is move them to WHERE?
       
      TMT Tactical, Sep 13, 2021
  47. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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    They would be welcome nowhere . The area in which
    I reside is made up of a lot of preppers . When the Chinese virus broke out we saw a hoard of panicked people invade the area as they obviously considered my area one of the best places to survive S.H.T. F. situation . Shop keepers were comparing them to a swarm of locust descending into the area . They came from hundreds of miles away . Fancying themselves as survivalist they came with tents , campers and bug out bags . Fortunately before the make believe preppers / survivalist started getting shot by the locals the Governor stepped in and ordered them out of the state . All government parks , and wildlife areas were closed down , renting them a room for the night was decreed illegal , vehicles found parked along rural areas were towed off . It worked and the invaders were repel'd back . ---- As for as this topic on trade items , I wouldn't trade an invader a can of beans or anything else . They should have gotten their prepper / survivalist plan ready years prior and not thought they could just invade another area and live like a mountain man of old . When things really turn bad , the stench of rotting corpses of the pretend preppers / survivalist will be blowing in the wind .
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2021
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  48. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    In the USA, FEMA has been creating massive camps for well over a decade now. Decommissioned Air Force Bases have been converted into FEMA camps.

    Many people could be moved involuntarily by military forces. For instance, if a city gets hit by a dirty bomb -- say terrorists use stolen plutonium to contaminate a city (multiple time-delay bombs that disperse radioactive nuclear waste) -- National Guard units along with Army Reserve could be tasked with getting the local population out of there as fast as possible to reduce their exposure to toxic / radioactive materials. Most likely the destinations would be FEMA camps where they have preparations plus tens of thousands of make-do plastic caskets for mass burials. If the military moves people into rural areas and the locals say that they do not want them, well that's just tough for the locals unless you want to open fire on military units.

    One BIG reason why we might have to bug-out to my home state is that where I am living now could / probably would be getting throngs of evacuees from major cities. We live only 100 miles away from one metropolitan area. And hey, let's face it, 100 miles isn't squat. Should the New Madrid quake go off, emergency agencies have been put on notice that they WILL be taking casualties. If Memphis Tennessee gets leveled, not just Nashville has been put on notice, so has Knoxville which is 400 miles east via Interstate 40. Any bridges knocked out will see Army units and deployable bridges showing up and pronto. Stalled cars on I40 will be bulldozed off the road like toys (armored vehicle repair depot Army Reserve was in adjacent town to where I grew up; they had treaded everything and bulldozer blades can be fitted to tanks, I've seen them).

    Military plans for interstate highways go back to the 1950s when Eisenhower built them to move massive numbers of military units if need be. We've all seen military convoys that went on for the better part of a mile. We had a train go by our neighborhood down South that carried so many M1 Abrams tanks that it took almost 20 minutes to go by -- there were hundreds upon hundreds of tanks.

    If the mandate comes down, millions will get shoved out of their homes ... to somewhere ... wherever FEMA has ready ... or not-so-ready.

    =========================
    October 6, 2016

    "Is Mandatory Evacuation of One Million SC Residents for Hurricane Matthew Doubling as a Martial Law Drill?"


    http://www.renegadetribune.com/mand...hurricane-matthew-doubling-martial-law-drill/

    "As Hurricane Matthew bears down on the East Coast, citizens in Florida, Georgia and the Carolinas are getting prepared but some are being forced under armed guard to evacuate. Florida Gov. Rick Scott is warning it could be the biggest evacuation in Florida state history.

    "South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley announced plans this morning to evacuate “designated zones” of what was at first reported as a quarter of a million people within 100 miles of the state’s coastline specifically to Greenville, South Carolina 200 miles inland. It has now been announced South Carolina will evacuate over 1 million people.

    "A fleet of 315 school buses from Greenville has been dispatched to retrieve people from Charleston and transport them back to Greenville. The evacuation isn’t voluntary, either. ...

    "A concerned citizen sent The Daily Sheeple a message that evacuating to Greenville means they are evacuating a million people to a town specifically known to host one of the state’s few known FEMA camps ...

    "He is not alone in his concern.

    "A quick search reveals that multiple sites across the web list a youth detention camp near Greenville as a FEMA camp.

    "There are also theories regarding underground military infrastructure that was built to run through the Greenville-Spartanburg, South Carolina area, with Walmart set up as a staging area.

    "This ties in with several other Walmarts around the country being suddenly shut down last year and all employees laid off with five hours notice for suspicious 'plumbing repairs'.

    "As mentioned, we all know a 100-mile Constitution-free zone has been designated around the entire border of the United States, which includes more than half of South Carolina and the entire state of Florida.

    "The state of emergency was already declared and the National Guard was already been activated days in advance, and again, they have removed the words 'voluntary' and 'mandatory' from the equation all together. People aren’t being given a choice. They are being forced. Haley did not specifically discuss where all the Charleston residents bused into Greenville on 315 buses would be going once they got there.

    "The governor also discusses how police and national guard will be lining the highway to give an armed escort to evacuees, including 700 'traffic control points' set up and 'comfort stations' where people can go to the bathroom or get water as they are evacuated… under armed guard.

    "Kind of interesting on the timing too, considering Russia is currently overtly holding a civil defense drill that involves 40 million of its residents… Makes you wonder if the government would even tell us of their concerns about potential war here in America, or if they would just use natural events like this to run a drill without causing a widespread panic. Likely we’d be kept in the dark on a 'need-to-know' basis like we have been as citizens of this country ever since World War II."
    .
     
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  49. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    I dont think anyone would be evacuated from London to my rural area, too far and too few resources, I think the study quoted mentioned nearby counties so that would be Essex, Kent and Suffolk, not that there is anywhere to put them, councils (local govt) say they havent got enough housing for those already on the housing list never mind taking thousands more, so the idea of moving large numbers from one area to another looks good on a report but in reality it wont work. it will just cause anger and resentment in the areas they are moved to.
    most "incomers" who move to this area dont last long, unless they can accept country ways, most complain about cow muck, tractors, no pavements(sidewalks), no street lights, church bells, cockerels crowing, etc.etc. and miss their close supermarkets(we travel 20-25 miles each way to ours), coffee shops, cheap London markets and all, unless they can fit in they are usually gone within 6-12 months.
    #getting back to trade, post SHTF there isnt going to be much to trade and very few people to trade with, especially in an area like this.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2021
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  50. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    It would have to be a military-run operation. Here in the US it will be FEMA/Military.
     
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