What to use for future trade?

Discussion in 'Essential Items' started by TJames13, Jun 13, 2016.

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  1. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    I've been in enough hazardous/dangerous/sticky situations to know that Panic is not a good option....and is often worse as an option.

    Having some level of preparedness helps in not being prone to panic.

    Also I do not like being around panicky people...those easily prone to panic/drama... I just know from experience that such people can be dangerous to any good outcome,.

    Electricity going out is something over which I have made preparations....batteries, inverters...flashlights, spare batteries and even the olde fashioned oil lamps as well as the pump up coleman types...and generators.

    And as Texdanm aptly states...battery operated radios in addition to my ham radios....and spare car batteries...even one deep celled battery.

    Prime concern here is my frozen and refrigerated stores...including refrigerated medicines if necessary.....then comes other uses for electricity.

    Now medical ...is limited in application here...and long term I agree....someone with medical training and or doctors will be a hugely valuable commodity.

    Medical/medicines I try to stock up....including some prescription medicines.

    But medical for serious injuries/issues...that will be a problem in a serious SHTF or TEOTWAWKI.

    One becomes more aware of this vulnerability as one goes into the autumn of one s life.


    Tried to shoot some baskets with the youngsters down the street some years ago...and when I went for that Jump Shot...I could not quite get airborne as in years before. There has been a whole lot of chicken and taters in the mean time. And I enjoyed every meal!!!

    But......One realizes one is not as spry as in previous years. Time catches up with us.


    Watcherchris
    Not an Ishmaelite.
     
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    1. Old Geezer
      Old Geezer, Jan 7, 2022
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  2. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Industry and Hospitals have massive electrical generators for backup. At one company, we had a railroad engine's generator and a 40 ft high tank of diesel fuel. The military sees hospitals as core-assets also due to their ongoing needs for the brass and for the troop. No troop = dead brass.

    FEMA and the military branches (ex. Army Corps of Engineers) are thick with "what to do" scenario responses. "If the following assets are lost, what are our backups?!" They have in place layers upon layers of backup contingencies. Talk to your friends whose rank is >= lieutenant colonel. Part of their ongoing educational programs include the "what to do's". Holy crap do they ever have to attend these schools. Some get royally frustrated with the schools they see little use in attending. Some classes are B.S. and some are critical. The medical brass are always part of these schools. Medical brass have to attend the non-medical, even combat, schools held every year. I guess everybody has to be onboard for all the other crap. Who knows what could go wrong. Must say that I have no crystal ball to see the future. At non-military medical conferences you'll see a lot of uniforms -- to include other countries' military reps. God knows I'm burnt-out with those cluster-####s.
    .
     
  3. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Survival starts with "What IF!!!" and then goes from there. If you wait until the crap lands on you to plan and think then your chances of getting out of it unhurt are slim to none. You will be unlikely to plan for just exactly what may happen to you BUT by making plans for all manner of disasters you will probably have something close that you have at least thought about.

    Having a plan of any sort also has a few VERY important added advantages. During a disaster your WORST problem after the basics of the disaster itself is panic. Panic is the mind-killer and bad decisions, in the beginning, will stay with you and haunt you in the ongoing period of confusion and fear. For example...

    If your house catches fire your first instinct would be to get out fast. The way to get out of the house is via one of the doors...MAYBE. You may be a lot better off going out a window in the room where you are rather than run into what may be a worse situation. People die all the time trying to retrieve things that can be replaced. If you don’t need it to live let it GO.

    I am a bit of a boy scout. I really took up the “Always be prepared” motto from my scouting days. What people fail to understand is that being prepared is more than just having THINGS for “just in case”. Far more important is for you to be mentally prepared. You need to have a plan AND you need to be able to deal with the situation calmly and intelligently.

    One of the things that you will need to plan for is how in the world you are going to deal with people near to you that freak totally out and are beyond useless. How long are you going to basically carry them and what price will you be willing to pay for this decision. Some people will rise to the challenge but there are going to be some people that just will never be able to cope with it. Sanity and insanity will have very different parameters in a post-apocalyptic world.

    Sanity is actually just a measure of how well you deal with a situation. A lot of people will just refuse to shift to the different mindset that a violent post-apocalyptic world may demand. THEN again some people’s adaptation will be little more than them setting aside their humanity totally. If you have something that they need or maybe even just want they will kill you for it without thought or remorse of any kind. I will confess that there are people near me that will be treading on THIN ice around me. I don’t trust them. I don’t like them and if they cross me I will kill them...

    Kindness and forgiveness are only something that you can have if you aren't fighting for your life on a daily, maybe even minute by minute, basis. If things crash there will be a period where that will be just the way it is. The quick and the dead will describe how fast a person realizes and adapts to the vast and sudden change in the world...
     
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  4. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    planning has always been part of my life, what to do and when to do it.
    the problem with the masses in Britain is the only thing they plan is their holidays, everything else is left to chance or they expect the govt or ngo's to do it for them.
    once the power goes out or the supermarket deliveries are delayed, then they will panic as we saw with the pre lock downs of the last 2 years.
     
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  5. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    nice story but what does it have to do with future trade?
     
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  6. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Not much I guess I just wandered.
     
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  7. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    This has to do with future trade.....by Texdanm.

    Two legged wildlife....carried my Kimber today with three 8 round mags instead of my Ruger GP 100. I needed to remember how heavy a .45ACP Government actually is.. as compared to a revolver and speed loaders.

    Traded some paper notes/fiat currency today for two bottles of wood glue...for some home repairs. Need to keep this stuff around. It can come in handy ...just like Duct Tape.



    Tried out my repaired long range HF antenna last night and it worked fine. Will be using it again tonight. Got below freezing here last night but not like out in Tennessee wherein my Ham Radio friend lives...he told me via radio that it was some 17 degrees out there at 9pm. No thanks. I have heavy thinsulte gloves...several pairs and glad of it.

    Saw the woman panhandler from a distance yesterday at the shopping center grocery store and she was wearing the thinsulate gloves we gave her and I am glad of it. We gave them to her just in time.

    Have one more pair in my car to give to the other woman panhandler who works that same parking lot/shopping center. Will give them when next I see her. Winter is coming!!!

    Watcherchris
    Not an Ishmaelite
     
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  8. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    The most valuable thing to have after a major total collapse will be KNOWLEDGE. I hate to say it but there are millions of our younger generation that don't have the slightest clue about how to gather food that isn't in a can or bag on a supermarket shelf. They will waste more than they will use by just not having a clue about preserving and storing things.

    When people start starving there will be a sudden and massive reduction of population. Unfortunatly at first we are going to lose a lot of those people that we can least aford to lose. Having supplies or living on a farm is only as good as your ability to defend it from HOARDS of starving animals that USED to be people.

    Initially you need to not attract attention and lay low. It won't take long for the numbers to plumit. Very few will actually starve. Most will die from fighting eachother for the limited remaining resources. At first you just don't want to be involved any more than you must.
     
  9. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Knowledge and skill-sets are at the top of the list of survival "supplies". Also, one's skills could be used as barter. If one has skills, then they should purchase the tools of their trade -- most people do, preppers certainly do.

    Non-preppers might even have the tools (handed down from family members who've passed away), yet not the skills to use them. Example, there's all these folk running out and buying firearms. What the heck is that all about?! Without training and a whole lot of practice, they could end up hurting themselves or their family.

    As for prepper purposes, I don't think anyone could overrate having needed skills. That's what has kept people alive throughout history when it catastrophically hits the fan.

    Gathering food:

    https://www.askaprepper.com/ingenious-foods-people-made-famines/

    https://gallowaywildfoods.com/orache-identification-edibility-distribution/

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=orache&atb=v140-1&ia=images&iax=images

    Holodomore; USSR took farms & agricultural lands and made them part of the collective. This killed tens of millions of people. In future, we may see central governments attempt to do the same for the "benefit of the people." This will be when your accurate high-power rifles will come into play -- "Reach out and touch someone." One could lose the fight, but at least they would die honorably, plus not die of starvation which is the worst of tortures.

    Shotguns: Birdshot for the birds, buckshot for the Stasi. Preppers need to gather lots of boxes of birdshot to bring down birds and harvest the occasional bunny. Could come to rodent stew. Was buying bunches of boxes of bird-shot for a grandson (got him a single-shot shotgun, "Boy, in the real world, you usually have a grand total of one shot at game") and noticed that my own supplies could use refreshing, so went out and bought birdshot found an online supplier who has ammo in stock.

    Supplier:

    https://palmettostatearmory.com/amm...i[1]=20+Gauge&stock_filter=Show+Only+In+Stock

    Holodomore Survival stories:

    https://www.holodomorsurvivors.ca/Video/video/Files/Dmytro Zapishnyi_video.html

    https://www.holodomorsurvivors.ca/Survivors.html

    "The Communists set up TORGSYNs¹ all over Ukraine – they wanted to kill two birds with one stone. They wanted to rob the people of their gold and valuables, and secondly, shut the mouths of people. They could say, “Look – we have everything! Take a look.” Those stores were overflowing with goods, which you could buy for gold and diamonds. You could buy anything you wanted."

    "¹An acronym for Torgovlia s inostrantsiamy – or "Store for Foreigners," where only gold, precious metals or foreign currency could be used. During the Famine, TORGSYNs were a means for the Soviet government to augment their gold reserves – desperate, starving people could trade gold or other family heirlooms for usually very small amounts of grain or other foodstuffs."
    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2022
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  10. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    The Olde Ones taught me many years ago that there existed more communist on our college campuses than in Moscow. I have never forgotten that for how surprised I was when first hearing of it. Now today it is coming clear and very true when you watch and observe what Is become of our young people....being turned into Ishmaelites.

    My non Ishmaelite .02,
    Watcherchris
     
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    1. Old Geezer
      Something needs to be done about them. There's a positive side to me. I feel that there are solutions to many problems, some permanent.
       
      Old Geezer, Jan 8, 2022
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    2. Old Geezer
      There are people who defecate on the Constitution and wipe their @$$es with pages torn from the Holy Bible.
       
      Old Geezer, Jan 8, 2022
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    3. Old Geezer
      "Return to Sender."
       
      Old Geezer, Jan 8, 2022
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  11. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    most people in the UK especially the younger ones dont have much idea about wild food, most only buy it in supermarkets and wont touch anything growing naturally, most wouldnt recognise it in its natural state anyway.
    when we moved here 12 years ago just a handful of kids would gather black berries every summer, now nobody does except your truly.
    personal food stockpiles will only last so long, after that knowledge and skills , or lack of them, will decide if the human race survives at all.
     
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  12. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    If you believe that there is only one form of SHTF -- an all-out end of the world / Mad Max
    über-collapse -- then do NOT read the following article on the price-suppression of silver by the bloated banks of oblivion. If times go utterly sideways, you'd better be young, very healthy, aggressive, seriously armed, and own the land on which you grow your food.

    OK, so here we go on the use of silver as barter:

    I believe that the price of silver is too high; however, the dollar is beyond sick and this current price of silver is low compared to what it should be worth. When the web takes a wet dump and electronic currencies go belly-up, people with cash will be OK-ish for a short while, then Western currencies will totally tank. For thousands of years, people have used silver coins and they will again. People want to barter, but barter items do not fit in your pocket or your purse. And to this, you can't grab a bunch of barter and run with it. EVERYBODY knows stamped coins. Coins minted in America in 1964 and before are 90% silver. People hoard them. Turns out that the big banks have also been hoarding silver in a very big way -- this in addition to gold and real estate.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2022-01-12/key-factor-silver-concentrated-short-position-comex

    "JP Morgan paid a $920 million dollar fine for manipulating the metals market last year and now Bank of America is holding a massive, short position in silver.

    "Why are a handful of the biggest banks in the world so aggressively holding down the price of silver? Does it matter that JP Morgan has amassed over one billion ounces of physical silver while holding down the paper price? Do you think they know where the price is ultimately going?"
    .
     
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  13. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    I have never ever met anyone who bartered with silver, or gold, they must move in different circles to me.
    most bartering around here is maybe a tool or more likely some item of food-usually grown fresh , or its labour .
     
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  14. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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    Only if someone thought the economy was going to rebound and return in the direction of normal would they likely trade a useful item for a shiny piece of metal . A temporary slump in living conditions is not what I prepare for , though I do realize a temporary economic collapse is possible . --- A simple communist created law designed to usher in a new currency could render shiny metal illegal , thus only good for trotline weights . --- On the other hand , I can see someone investing in precious metals with the hope of maintaining or gaining wealth , But in a complete collapse , thinking of old and proven survival needs and methods are my focus .
     
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  15. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    some kind of barter may be possible as the system slowly collapses, this has happened in other places but no one is going to trade shiny bits of metal for their stored food, if they do they're stupid!
     
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  16. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    I'd trade silver and excess ammunition for services. Needed medical attention is what first comes to mind. Without eye treatments, I would now be blind. Without surgeries, I would also be without the use of my arms. Surgeons saved my son who'd been in a car accident. A surgeon cured my wife of cancer.

    Accidents happen. Some are bad. Many require surgery.

    Here in the States:

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/accidental-injury.htm

    Number of emergency department visits for unintentional injuries: 97.9 million

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhamcs/web_tables/2018-ed-web-tables-508.pdf

    ========================================

    Silver over the millennia:

    https://www.visualcapitalist.com/silver-through-the-ages-the-uses-of-silver-over-time/

    Anti-bacterial properties:

    https://www.silverinstitute.org/silver-water-purification/

    "Millions of water purifiers are sold each year and silver is inside many of them. Silver prevents bacteria and algae from building up in their filters so that they can do their job — getting rid of bacteria, chlorine, trihalomethanes, lead, particulates and odor. Silver, in concert with oxygen, acts as a powerful sanitizer that offers an alternative to, or an augmentation of, other disinfectant systems.

    "Silver ions are being added to water purification systems in hospitals, community water systems, pools and spas. Silver also helps to prevent Legionnaires’ disease, which is caused by buildup in pipes, connections and water tanks.

    "Water-born illness is a major problem in developing nations. The full extent to which silver can help treat the issue of clean drinking water has yet to be seen, but ongoing research is showing its usage to be an exciting development for the global water supply."
    .
     
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  17. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    I would never trade ammunition , it seems to me we might need that in the future and it could also be used against us, same with knives etc.
     
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  18. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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    In a complete collapse travel will be limited , especially for those wise enough to position themselves a long distance from the remaining human population as reasonable . Thus I envision the survivors to be on their own with not any expectancy of medical help from an outside source . If hospitals and doctor offices are still available along with the needed electricity to make their computers and vast other electric gadgets function , then that is not a collapse but a economic slump . --- I have seen on this and other forums where their preps and plans are based on surviving a few weeks until they are rescued . I suppose that could be considered prepping , but only to a very limited degree . Then their next step " if not rescued " is to join the other sheeple in an attempt to prey upon the prepared .---- The point being , I don't seek immortality for me or family members but accept "dying as being a part of living " .--- Perhaps some of my medical kit preparations seem over the top of being rational . That is because I prep for having zero outside medical Assistance . That failing , I suppose the patient will simply die or perhaps even worse , if the person needs mental medications to prevent them from being homicidal , may have to been taken out to a secluded spot and shot in the back of the head by a family member . --- Trading in a collapse trying to find someone else to remedy a bad situation is simply not something I envision . Like LongWolf I reside way too far from a medical facility to fantasize that I could get the patient to a medical facility without a motorized vehicle . There again if you have available a motorized vehicle then likely you are in only a economic slump " not a collapse " .
     
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  19. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Old school physicians do not need the whiz-bang toys. Few large animal vets buy the super sophisticated medical machines. Paramedics and EMTs have to make-do with what they have in the field. I know these folk.

    In using ammo for trade, it would be with these sort of folk; and then, only ones that I know personally. Many physicians are conservative but have not put back sufficient preps. EMTs and Paramedics are often armed to the teeth (the ones I know sure are). I do not know about the veterinarians, but many are armed, I'm sure -- especially the "large animal" crews. The YouTube Demolition Ranch fellow has a vast arsenal; he's a veterinarian.

    The more "civilized" the areas, the more likely they are to not survive. Many agricultural regions will get through it all. People in these areas have acreage and tools. In rural America, the number of people per square mile can be very thin; more so in Canada.

    All the people I've worked with over the years could build make-do generators in a pinch. Non-solid-state inverters are all over the place, especially in rural areas. Computer circuits are another matter. CMOS memory is very susceptible to static and EMP. Electrical generators can be very crude.

    My kind of folk:



    .
     
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    1. TMT Tactical
      Really great video. A little redneck engineering and let the lights shine.
       
      TMT Tactical, Jan 18, 2022
  20. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    my thoughts are very similar.
    in a complete collapse an Emergency hospital is not going to be available, all minor hospitals in rural areas here have been closed and all facilities transferred to the larger city hospitals, these are at least 1 hours travel in a motor vehicle from my location , in a collapse event this may not be safe and the road fuel needed may not be available, the roads may be blocked , same with any help from Police, the rural stations have all been closed over the last few years and officers transferred to the larger towns and cities. no one patrols on foot anymore (except city centres) and seeing a patrol car is a rare sight indeed where I live.
    I have always taken it as read that in a collapse no outside help is available and have planned accordingly. trading or bartering with others is not part of that plan, anything we lack we will go without or improvise. there may be food banks and soup kitchens in the cities and larger towns but these will only last as long as the donations of food do and will be short lived.
    this area has always been considered by non residents as "the middle of nowhere" (especially the more remote and lower populated northern part of the county) and is so far from large urban areas that any outside help in an emergency is slow (sometimes non existent) in getting here, in a collapse situation we are very much on our own here and left to our own devices or actions, it is more than likely this part of the country will be cut off from the rest of the country within a very short time frame, this has happened for real in the past and will again. self reliance and self preservation will be the only option.
     
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  21. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    "old school" doctors are very low on the ground here, many do not wish to work in remote rural areas preferring to work in big city hospitals, many doctors are retiring or going permanently on sick leave because of the stress of the profession , there are many vacancies in rural practices and even more in the UK NHS as a whole-there will be many more after this April when they have to be vaxxed or sacked-around 80,000 at last count.
     
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