What's your best weapon to use?

Discussion in 'Essential Items' started by ProNine, Jul 3, 2016.

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  1. ProNine

    ProNine Member
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    Assuming the world goes to ruins and you are constantly on the run, or simply living in one place, you will most definitely be spending some of your lifetime out in the open. As a means of defending yourself, you will need to employ a weapon. Which weapon do you believe is the best choice in the long run?
     
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  2. Valerie

    Valerie Active Member
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    Knives or swords, in my opinion, are great long term weapons. Guns run out of bullets and require a lot of maintenance to keep them firing correctly. But with a good whetstone and some polish, a decent blade will last much longer than the wielder does. Plus, you can use knives for pretty much anything--construction, cooking, protection, hacking through undergrowth.
     
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  3. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    "Which weapon do you believe is the best choice in the long run?". I would rather not rely on just one weapon, short or long term. But here are my choices. These are the tools I carry with me, & have done so for many years living in the bush. They are time tested & have served me well.
    [​IMG]
    Advantages of a Flintlock Muzzle-loader.

    1) Ammo is less expensive than a modern equivalent caliber firearm.

    2) The smoothbore is very versatile, being able to digest round ball, bird shot, & buckshot, or any combination of two of these (can also use minies).

    3) The fusil is lighter to carry than a modern equivalent sized gun.

    4) You can vary the load if needs be.

    5) The smoothbore will digest other projectiles besides lead.

    6) Lead can be retrieved from downed game & remoulded with a simple mould & lead ladle. This means that you can carry less lead, & more of the lighter gunpowder.

    7) You can make your own gunpowder.

    8) You can use the lock to make fire without the need for gunpowder.

    9) You can use gunpowder for gunpowder tinder fire lighting if needs be.

    10) IF the lock should malfunction (these are very robust & it is not likely) you can easily repair it if you are carrying a few spare springs & a few simple tools.

    11)If you do not have any spare parts & the lock malfunctions, you can easily convert it to a tinderlock or matchlock & continue using it.

    12) You do not need a reloader, brass shells, caps, or primers. The latter have been known to break down in damp conditions or if they are stored for too long.

    13) Wadding for ball or shot is available from natural plant materials or homemade leather or rawhide.

    14) Less chance of being affected by future ammunition control legislation.

    15) Gunpowder is easily obtainable providing you have a muzzle-loader registered in your name regardless of caliber (only NSW is looking at this legislation at present).

    16) A .32 caliber flintlock rifle is more powerful than a .22 rimfire, less expensive to feed, more accurate over a greater distance, able to take small & medium sized game, & other than not being able to use shot (unless it is smoothbore), it has all the attributes of the other flintlocks.

    17) Damage from a .62 caliber-.75 caliber pistol or long arm is in the extreme. Wounded prey is unlikely to escape.

    18) By using buck & ball you are unlikely to miss your target. This load is capable of taking out more than one target.

    19) There is less kick-back to a muzzle-loading gun.

    20) Antique Flintlock muzzle-loading guns do not require a license, registration, or a permit to purchase in NSW Australia.

    Keith.
     
  4. gracer

    gracer New Member
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    The first tool that comes into my mind is having a good piece of knife or swiss army knife that has almost anything you need in one set. @Keith H. has a pretty good list above though and I must say I learned a lot from his post. I'm really glad to have found this forum because it's so informative. I'm learning a lot. :)
     
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  5. My3Sons_NJ

    My3Sons_NJ New Member
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    If the world is completely in ruins and I could only have one weapon, I would choose a flamethrower for two specific reasons. First, it has a wide kill range so if you are able to get within 30 feet of a target or if an approaching adversary gets within that range, you will neutralize them before they can get within arm's reach. Second, even the greenest or wettest wood/material could easily be used to start a fire so you will have access to purified water which is vital in a survival setting.
     
  6. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    This is long term, what happens when you run out of fuel? How versatile is a flame thrower? Not sustainable or renewable.
    Keith.
     
  7. CivilDefense

    CivilDefense Expert Member
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    Workable for hunting, perhaps, but they only slightly better than worthless for defensive purposes. Good luck defending against multiple armed looters with a single shot antique. There is a reason why the western world abandoned flintlocks nearly two centuries ago. Even a semi-auto, (preferably high capacity magazine equipped) .22LR would be better and that is marginal, to put it charitably, for a fighting arm.

    That is an odd choice. Flamethrowers are very heavy, bulky, have only a few seconds of firing time, require significant maintenance, and the range is shorter than any firearm. Essentially all of the world's armies have abandoned them in favor of other weapon systems. And before they did, it required a system of maintenance and resupply that most civilians don't have.

    As to the original question, a solid pump shotgun. Concerning ammunition, it is available in enormous quantities, the versatility cannot be matched in terms of type of cartridges available (birdshot, buckshot, slug, flechette, signalling flares, et al.), and they are fairly easy to handload. Such an arm can be used to down birds, bag big game, and defend against nature's most dangerous animal, man. Reliability on a pump is about as good as anyone can expect from any mechanical device, and the parts and knowledge to keep them running readily available. It may not be exotic, but they work.

    Beyond that, a quality .357 Magnum revolver is damn near indestructable and ammo is available everywhere. There are even models that will digest 9mm Parabellum in addition to .38 Special and .357 Magnum. Even further, an automatic carbine or rifle, chambered for a military round (e.g., 5.56x45mm NATO, 7.62x51mm NATO, 7.62x39mm Soviet, 5.45x39mm Soviet) and is fed from standard box magazines (e.g., M16 STANAG or Kalashnikov-pattern) would be a viable option.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2016
  8. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Things to bare in mind when choosing the right tools are: 1) What is available to YOU where you live. 2) Try not to think all "gun Ho" like some people & bare in mind the weight of ammunition you will have to carry for long term use, especially if you intend to use your gun for defense & hunting! Many people who recommend all sorts of modern high power firearms actually have no experience in a fire fight or long term wilderness living. Do your own research & use common sense. Plan on keeping a low profile & staying out of a fire fight, but have a plan (B) just in case you can't avoid a fight.
    Remember the original question in this post was: "Which weapon do you believe is the best choice in the long run?".
    Keith.
     
  9. Doubletap45

    Doubletap45 New Member
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    Your Brain. Tactics and skill to use the best defensive or offensive weapon for the job.
     
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  10. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    In a nutshell!
    and the weapon in hand is only 10% of defence!
     
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  11. Bishop

    Bishop Expert Member
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    To be skilled in many weapons and tactics will be a must most here have a bob bag if your driving home and get ambush what then are you going to have time to get from your vehicle and get all of your supplies fight the ambush or run from it and pick up or make a weapon of opportunity
     
  12. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    There is no where between home & the city that I could get ambushed & not retreat or get around in my 4WD. I have been driving for over 50 years & I can use my vehicle as well as I can use any tool. I purchased my first 4WD (short wheel base Toyota Landcruiser) in W.A., drove out to the desert, & from there into the Territory. I learnt during the wet season that skill in driving is more important than the type of vehicle you are driving, but a good 4WD sure helps you to get around when everything is under water.
    Fortunately I do not have to go to the city often & spend most of my time in the bush.
    Keith.
     
  13. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    first thing that comes to mind is either my crossbow or my longbow, preferably both.
     
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  14. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    Longbow, crossbow, recurve and compound.
    I prefer the long bow/recurve.
    I took the 49th largest archery harvest in Ohio with a compound.
    Ohio Bug Buck club. :>)

    Del S***** 1994 Columbiana Long Bow 163 5/8
    I've taken several others with a bow.
    My longest shot...................ready? 55 paces.
    A shot I should not have taken. Too far.
    A doe, chest, broadside, pass through. She ran maybe 40 yards leaving a blood
    trail a blind man could follow.
    Longest shot with a smooth bore shotgun? 12 gauge, 125 paces, in the head.
    Slobber shot pure and simple. Another desperation shot I should not have taken.
    Best shot with a bow?
    44 paces, button buck looking at me.
    Browning Midas bow, Beeman carbon arrow, 85 grain broad head, arrow entered at the "curl"
    and exited a rear ham.
    Never found the arrow,
    It ran a semi circle and was d.r.t.
    Remembered another odd shot.
    A doe running for all it was worth at about 100 yards and I fired 5 times
    without effect. Smooth bore Remington 870, 1 oz. Winchester slugs.
    I watch the thing run for several hundred yards down hill and drop dead.
    HUH?
    We went and field dressed the critter and found a slug hit it below
    the near eye, existed the off eye and it was dead on it's feet.
    Go figger.
    Then the time I was on stand and 3 driven deer rand broadside at 30 yards
    and I got all 3.
    Kept one, gave 2 to the drivers in our party.
    Last year, opening morning, half hour into shooting hours, behind my
    house, an 8 point walked out in front of me at about 40 yards.
    45-70, 300 grain Federal h.p. ammo, boom, dead!
    I love the 45-70.:p
    Out with the 6.8 spc a few years ago in deer season.
    4 point jumped up in front of me and ran straight away.
    I aimed for the middle of the "flag".
    Bang, flop.
    Bullet cut the tail bone, hit the deer behind the left ear and took it's head off.
    :D
    I am not a trophy hunter. I hunt deer because I love to hunt, love venison.
    If a buck has a nice rack I might have it mounted.
    I have 5 real nice mounts.

    Then there was the time....................................................:)
     
  15. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    ...that i was groundhog hunting alone on a large farm pasture.
    I shot one at 300 or so yards with my .222 Rem mag. (obsolete now)
    I skinned it and filled the skin with sand from a creek bank then set the
    "stuffed" critter next to it's hole propped up with a forked stick.
    I knew 2 guys I worked with hunting that same field. ( all cops )
    hawwwwwwwwwwww

    They shot and shot and shot that critter and thought it was armor platted.
    :p:p:p

    Well they were lousy shots anyway.

    The bastages got indicted for corruption.
    I squealed my guts out to the F.B.I task force on organized crime.
    Neither did time. They rolled over on bigger fish then had to quit, sell out,
    and leave the state.
    Good riddance.
     
  16. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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  17. Grumpy Max

    Grumpy Max Member
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    If we’re talking about offence/defence weapon then apart from a couple of dirks, Fairbairn-Sykes knives & an axe I think I’d use my only weapon, a basket-hilt sword; extremely sharp & beautifully made by Armour Class. Blade length is roughly 33” & weighs about 3lbs.


    71CF33F3-162D-4C70-A679-15F63BC73D60.jpeg
     
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  18. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    An Atlatl, a hawk and a spear.

    I think in a bind I could fabricate the spear and the atlatl with the hawk.

    A spear is hard to beat defensively and well made spear heads last a lifetime. The Atlatl throws heavier projectiles than a bow and is less fragile and easier to replace. While the bow is probably better it takes a lot more work and knowledge to fabricate and use.

    For the short term my choice would be my 12 gauge Mossberg 500 defender with a bayonet.
     
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  19. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Beautiful looking piece Max, I love it. I think longer range tools such as bows & guns are a must, but tools for hand to hand fighting are equally important.
    Keith.
     
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  20. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    These are the tools I carry on treks, they will also be the tools I use for offence & defence. The only piece that has changed recently is the clasp knife. I now have a slightly larger friction blade with a lock.
    f60b7016f930463c197bea96bc435503.jpeg f60b7016f930463c197bea96bc435503.jpeg
    Plus my sword for occasions when I think I may need to carry one.
    f60b7016f930463c197bea96bc435503.jpeg f60b7016f930463c197bea96bc435503.jpeg
    Keith.
     
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  21. Grumpy Max

    Grumpy Max Member
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    Very nice equipment there Keith.
    My Dad used to do a lot of black powder shooting in the late 80’s using pistols, muskets & shotguns. Was interesting when we’d go pigeon shooting & he’d take a flintlock shotgun!
    I used to use Opinals when I did rough shooting, went through so many of them I think I kept the company in profit!
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
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  22. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    I love the flintlock for it's versatility & sustainability. I full understand that modern cartridge guns have advantages in certain situations, & I own some modern guns, but if I had to choose just one gun to take with me for long term wilderness living, it would be the flintlock.
    You say you went through a few Opinel clasp knives Max, what is your opinion of them?
    Keith.
     
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  23. Grumpy Max

    Grumpy Max Member
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    I loved them. Cheap (back in the 80’s), easily sharpened & quite rugged. I never went out shooting without one. Haven’t used one for a few years but, somewhere in a box, I’ve got 2 of silly sizes...one is nearly a foot long & the other about 1.5”.
     
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  24. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    The one you have on you when its needed. I prefer for long distant range a 308 cal rifle or 30 06 cal hard hittin and accurate for huntin small game a 12g shotgun wide range of loads for hunt i mainly use a mossburg ulti mag any 12g round made 2 3/4 - 3 1/2 in works fine in it mynormal edc in a shoulder holster is a officers model. Colt 1911 in 45 cal each and every one of these if i shoot you with it im sure your not getting back up i own a wide range of firearms from full auto to single shot these cals and types of our prefered because they have worked well for many years for me
     
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  25. Grumpy Max

    Grumpy Max Member
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    Keith, these are the only ones I’ve got now.
    9AD70ECD-37C0-4D20-A52A-DDDDE0D361A4.jpeg
     
  26. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    I admit i had too look up that brand and read up on them 2 old vets i knew carried these great knives well made and locking factor makes it a good working blade any knife brand made for that long would be worth the price and be a great add to a kit
     
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  27. Grumpy Max

    Grumpy Max Member
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    They used to be as cheap as chips back in the 80’s, not sure on the current price.
    They do locking & non-locking versions, in fact the smaller one in the pic is a non-locking one.
    The ones I used to use had a handle about 5” long, very handy.
     
  28. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    The locking ones i saw were about five inches closed zazor sharpe the old gentleman got them in france in ww2 ive only saw 2 but i know agood thing when i see it
     
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  29. Grumpy Max

    Grumpy Max Member
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    A much overlooked knife, even I’ve forgotten about using them & I used to have loads....now I’m going to myself a couple.
     
  30. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    4 3/4 lock blade 15 us birthday comein up i will show mrs and maybe have one cross your fingers for me lol
     
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  31. Grumpy Max

    Grumpy Max Member
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    Fingers well & truly crossed! ;)
     
  32. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I recently bought the Opinel no.8 knife for only £8.60 not including postage, so they don't cost a lot.
     
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  33. Grumpy Max

    Grumpy Max Member
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    Aha, still a reasonable price then.
     
  34. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    its the belt sheaths which make up the price not the knife, I bought the wife the exact same knife(she cant use other lockknives because her thumbs aren't strong enough) with the sheath it cost about £19 +postage. still not a lot of money.
     
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  35. watcherchris

    watcherchris Expert Member
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    hmmmm....renewable....resources...

    yeah...renewable.

    That is what caused me many years ago to purchase a crossbow...150 lb draw. I taught myself how to fabricate my own arrows or bolts for it. Not the best but they will get one through in a pinch.

    Bought a spare prod for it...or the bow itself...and also several strings and put them back.

    However...a crossbow can be very difficult for many to cock at 150 lbs. of non compound draw.


    I am now looking at some kind of take down recurve bow. Plans are to also learn to fabricate arrows for this as well.



    My black powder arms are all cap lock which can be a problem if your caps get wet or deteiorate over time.


    Have been debating getting one of these new fangled stainless in line black powder rifles in 50 caliber...using shotgun primers. Prefer to black it out with some kind of magic marker...as I have done to my aluminum home made antennas up in the trees here on my property.

    Shot gun primers can be purchased aplenty and are commonly available. Also I believe these shotgun primers will have a longer shelf life if properly stored/carried..verses ordinary black powder caps.

    I generally prefer loose powder to those expensive solid formed powders so often seen in stores today. Black powder or black powder substitute.



    Oh...and the Opinel knife is a nice knife for the monies...and not stainless as well.
    Priced right for the marketplace.

    Thanks,
    Watcherchris.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
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  36. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    Ok for long term all others are workablebut a simple bow is best quiet deadly easy to maintane a bow 40-50 pound pull recurve two makers tolook for are fred bears bear bow or indian both are high quailty working bows i got mybear at age 12 it still shoots just fine strings arrows are easy too make in a shtf world have a bow for hunting and protection it will rarely let you down
     
  37. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    everything else will break down over time but a bow and arrows can be made from what is around us in nature.
     
  38. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    My cuz john took gold in the 69 or so olimpics he and i learned together like any weapon i own i know how to use it well andto care for it
     
  39. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Thanks Max. I didn't know that Opinel made them that large! Good one.
    Keith.
     
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  40. Grumpy Max

    Grumpy Max Member
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    It’s a monster.
     
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  41. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Actually Opinel make their version of the historical 18th century Penny Knife, I wouldn't mind betting that the knives you have are their version of the 17th century Gully Knife. Back then Gully simply meant large.
    I wonder if these large ones are available over here???!!!;)
    b5603970cf2c5d016368a0a0665c1d49.jpeg
    17th century Gully Knife.
    Keith.
     
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  42. Grumpy Max

    Grumpy Max Member
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    Looks a beast.
     
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  43. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    Google had many sites i went right to there offical american site there was listings of allkinds of sites to buy it said they eeremade for field work and harvesting im not much for big knife i do have a couple but rarely use them infact i have 3 that ive never used
     
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  44. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Openel knives come in lengths from #2 through #10 this represents the blade length in centimeters. They also sell assorted specialty blades and are offered in both stainless and carbon steels. Great knives at a great price. I have several of them and have never been disappointed.
     
  45. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    Good info. Really good info. I don't keep up with muzzle-loading. Had friends back in the early 70's who were into reenactment.

    I think a cap'n'ball revolver would come in handy as a backup weapon to cartridge weapons. Same with archery; compound bow or crossbow. I like the pretty little .36 revolvers, not so powerful, however they'll do all of what I'd want them to do. And these things sure are cute. I hate putting that wax/grease over the front of the cylinder chambers and waxing the caps, but you have to, else might get a chain-fire.

    When the NAZI goons went to gather up the Jews out the Warsaw ghetto, they met resistance. What the Jews would do is use the few pathetic handguns they had to shoot German soldiers in the head and take their rifles. If goons in the USA turn their backs on the Constitution and begin firearms confiscation, Jewish Resistance tactics could be used on them. If one takes a dump on the Constitution, then that animal should be treated like the NAZI he is. God only knows how many Germans one uncle of mine killed.

    Black powder weapons and archery weapons could be used to gather effective repeating weapons from traitors. Archery is close to silent. I used to could break breath mints at ten yards with my compound bow. Party trick. Problem was I kept destroying arrows by driving an arrow into the last arrow's shaft. Couldn't keep fletchings on them, cut them off with the next arrow. Had to just practice at 30 and 40 yards, which is to say my back yard, couldn't use indoor range. Wonder if I could get back to good? I'm old now. Still good with rifles. I'm not what I used to be, that's for sure. In a SHTF situation, I'd just have to do what I had to do.

    Were you to burn traitors to death, their firearms and ammo could be damaged.
     
  46. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    Im old but dont act it if you think old you become old mrs and i do what needs done daily and have a rich full life yes we retired from the rat race 9-5 bs but there still is plenty to do and enjoy. Put multi dots on target aim at different dot saves tearing up arrows i use dime sized dots glow in the dark still good to 35 but my bow has it limits get up get moveing. GgET ER DONE SON
     
  47. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    Appreciate your words of encouragement. However, my body is fighting back mightily at any positive thoughts I might have ... or the doctors, for that matter. I remember, once upon a time, having these "positive thoughts" you speak of.

    Dead or not dead, I think I'm entering the spirit world. Starting to remember stuff that happened centuries ago. The dead are not even visiting me in my dreams. What's that about?! They did when I was younger. Maybe this is a bardo dream I'm "living". I have many more loved ones over there than here ... if I'm still here. Why won't they visit me? Saw an old friend in a dream this past week; I wondered if he was still alive. Couldn't find his obituary anywhere. Time for bed now. Where will my soul go tonight? Won't be pretty.
     
  48. watcherchris

    watcherchris Expert Member
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    Yup Olde Geezer,

    I am going down the same trail now...aches and pains. What caught me short is your statement about the olde ones not visiting me in my dreams...yup ..same here.

    My thinking tells me we have crossed a threshold.

    I don't quite think of fear and trepidation in many things as I was want to do in years past. It does not grip me to the point when young...of what I call "the deer in the headlights reaction."

    It is not that we are not cautious in what we do....experience and all of that under our belt...better discipline than in our younger years ...

    I am not even sure I am stating the topic here with sufficiency...It is just that something has changed over the years and with age...than was in the foolishness of youth....

    Maybe I should say....that we don't quite blink with fear and surprise as was I want to do in my youth.
    Don't get as excited...bladder quite as full from fear or anticipation....LOL LOL LOL!!!


    Well enough of that Olde Geezere. Hope you and the readers get the idea...I am trying to get across and stumbling.

    Thanks,
    Watcherchris.
     
  49. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    A very dear old friend told me a story one time about what it was like getting old. I was probably not even 20 and didn't fully understand it.

    We have pecan trees here and they are native. When a pecan sets its fruit it starts as a little dried up thing that then grows and gets bigger and grows a tough outer husk that protects it from critters. The fully grown but not yet ripe pecan is quite a bit bigger than the eventual pecan. As fall comes the husk starts to dry up and shrivel and eventually begin to open. When the winds that come in the early fall start the nuts fall free from the husk to the ground. Until they fall they aren't ready and ripe.

    He told me that getting old os like the pecan ripening and what we see as death is actually the beginning. A pecan is after all the nut from which a tree grows. As the husk dries up the pecan doesn't hold on to the tree as hard until it comes to the point where even a light breeze is enough and it turns loose. He told me that as I got older I would not look at death as I did when young. I see it now. While I'm not ready to give up my life yet, I do feel the loosening of my hold on it and don't fear it much agt all. I only wish to have a good death that will have meaning but accept that I will have to take what is offered.

    LOL, to a small extent it is a lot like I am getting younger. Osteoarthritis started eating me up in my 40s. My 50s were a misery of almost constant pain. In my late 50s I had my hips replaced one after the other and after several years of hardly being able to walk without agony I was suddenly pain free. I've now had about 8 really good years and while I still have some aches and pains, especially on cold wet days, most of the time I move and feel pretty darn good. Being able to move around I now weigh what I did in my 20s and don't look my age at all. Hell I've even returned to shoulder length hair and it isn't grey yet. I've always hated getting my hair cut and liked it long. Now I'm an old fart and don't care what others think about it.

    The men in my family mostly die well before 70. My Dad made it to 70 but did it in a nursing home. I retired at 62 and am having a great time doing exactly what I like to do. I read late, sleep late, work in my shops making things and learning things and fish a lot. If I die tomorrow I will die a winner.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
    Grumpy Max likes this.
  50. watcherchris

    watcherchris Expert Member
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    Texdanm,

    Here.....Here!!!! Well said and thank you.

    Yours are the words for which I have been grasping....thank you.


    As to this.....yes...definitely ...I can easily relate and understand.

    I too find myself with a tendency to let my hair go...not only on my head..but on my face as well. When I cannot stand it anymore I get it cut by that nice looking younger woman in the Hair Cuttery and or shave my beard....and I am due for a shave about now.

    And yes...TexDanm...I don't care what others think.....they can get lost...to put it mildly...I am driving this bus!!!


    Thanks for fleshing out the words for which I was lacking.


    Watcherchris.
     
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