When The Power Goes Down.

Discussion in 'Other Not Listed Situations' started by lonewolf, Nov 24, 2018.

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  1. Third Pig

    Third Pig New Member
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    History has and does always repeat itself. We just need to recognize this and learn from it!
     
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  2. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    You fail to understand the difference in magnitude that I am talking about. This is like telling people that when you were a kid you got shot in the butt with a Red Rider BB gun and it wasn't too bad so you aren't worried about getting shot by a rifle.

    Voltage isn't the problem here. If I walk on an old wool carpet rubbing my feet I will develop a static charge. When I reach out and touch you it will give you a little shock. That little static electrical shock can be thousands of volts.

    What fries you when you get hit by a high voltage jolt is not the voltage. It is the amperage and wattage that has the power. Amps times volts equal watts. Look at the wires that you have coming off your 12 volt car battery. Then look at the wires that is the wiring in your house. That little 12 volt battery packs a lot of power in amps even though the voltage is low. To carry that power you need big wires. Wire size is determined by the expected amp draw.

    Power is expressed by wattage. A hundred watt light bulb always draws a hundred watts. 100 volts and 1 amp make it go perfectly. The wire size is based on the amperage. Now, you can take 200 volts and 1/2 an amp and again have a 100 watt light bulb. In this case the wire can be half the size of the 100 volt 1 amp light bulb. If the power is dropped to 50 volts that 100 watt light bulb will draw 2 amps and poof burn out in a short period of time.

    I made my living working on electrical things and doing electrical work. In a lot of places that are industrial they use 577 to 600 volt power. they do this so that they can deliver a lot of power through amazingly small wires. Remember wire size is based totally on amperage. that 100 watt light bulb run on 500 volts will only draw 1/5 of an amp so the wire can be tiny.

    Now to the Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) and coronal mass ejection (CME) problem. A CME is a piece of the plasma that is thrown off by the intense boiling on the surface of the sun. This plasma is like the flame above a fire. It actually isn't very hot. It is just a ball of energy that is cast off the surface of the fire. You can run your hand through the flames above a fire quickly and it doesn't burn you but if you run your hand through the coals in the fire you are BURNT.

    There is no real danger from the plasma heating up or burning people unless you are talking about the sun going nova. The plasma when it hits our atmosphere and magnetosphere mostly is deflected and the rest absorbed making pretty colors in the night sky. What isn't stopped is the magnetic charge that the plasma carries. It hits and merges with the earths existing magnetic field and is pulled down into the field.

    The way we make electricity is by taking a lot of wire, wrapping it around an armature that is then spun in a magnetic field. The passing in and out creates an energy field that we call electricity. The bigger the coils, the longer the wire is on the armature then the more power it generates.

    You can also generate power by reversing the method and moving the magnet back and fort over the armature. This is generally less efficient but is enough to power things like those flashlights that you shake. You are just moving a magnet back and fort inside a coil of wire.

    When a CME hits the EMP size is in relationship to the size of the plasma ball. We get hit by bits of it all the time. The sun isn't a steady temperature and has an 11 year cycle. We are currently at the bottom of that cycle. When we are at the maximum the sun starts throwing off what they call X class CMEs these suckers are big and would rattle our cage if it his us. The good news is that it is a little like trying to shoot the wings off a fly in flight with a 22 rifle. We are a tiny target in a really big solar system.

    All that said sooner or later you are going to get lucky and brush a fly. Once in a while you might actually hit a fly dead on. The last time we got really hit was in 1859. We were just starting off using limited electrical power so most people were not affected. About the only longs wires back then was the beginning of the telegraph usage. Those wires got HOT and a few telegraph operators got zapped, a couple of generating facilities blew up but it wasn't really bad.

    Remember the amount of power generated relates to the length of the wire in your coil. Look at the power lines that run all over the place and understand that it will react like a generator with a wire hundreds and hundreds of thousands on miles long. Every INCH will be making power and it will add up in a geometric progression!

    Your 35,000 volt protection will be like trying to use a silk shirt as a bullet proof vest! We are not just talking about voltage here we are talking AMPERAGE. We are talking about something like a lightning strikes on the corner of every house and on the top of every power pole all at the same time. The power lines will melt, the transformers will explode blowing the tops off the poles. Every fuse in the affected area will be fried and melt down before it can blow out.

    This EMP will have NO effect on people physically. People pass through huge magnetic fields all the time up to MRI exams in hospitals with no problem. The size of its effect can be as small as a part of a state up to a hemisphere or the entire planet. Even a small hit of the size of a state in the US will mean the possibility of people in that area being without power for months! Every wire would have to be replaced, every transformer and fuse and a lot of the poles will need to be replaced. The problem is that there are not that many parts available so they will try to offer help where it can affect the most people.

    I've lived through this a couple of times when Hurricanes tore up so much that people like me that were out in the country were without power for weeks or even months. If even this small level or sized thing happens can you imagine a worse case scenario where the East coast was hit. Boston, Philadelphia, New York City and Washington DC without power for several months!

    EMPs are made by the combination of massive power flux when it hits our planets magnetosphere. The nuclear man-made version involves setting off a bomb several hundred miles above the planet. The plasma in a nuclear explosion is much the same as the plasma of a CME and the effect is about the same just on a smaller scale.

    A Faraday cage may not be enough. We are talking about the possibility of power similar to lightning strikes. Even if it does survive There won't be much left to power up. Even small things like toasters may burn up. The delicate wires in your computer run things, nearly everything these days, will be fried. Personally I would be hesitant to fire up a generator. The noise would attract a lot of attention in a quiet environment. One of the eeriest things when the power goes off and the cars stop moving is how quiet it is. Even out in the country where I live it was strange. There is always a background noise that you aren't aware of until it is gone.
     
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  3. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    @TexDanm

    Outstanding post. A complex issue explained in simpler terms. Thank you for all of us member. Good solid info.
     
  4. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    d3a02ef47f870c10c1e4630284adaf81.png

    As you can see the sunspot activity is not regular. To some extent sunspots are like the bubbles formed when you boil water. Water boils at 212F or 100C. If you keep adding more heat the water still stays at that boiling point BUT the boil becomes more and more violent. The water will start to splash out of the pot. The sunspots are much the same and the water thrown from the pot are similar to the coronal mass ejections. We really don't have a full understanding of this. We can see the short 11 year cycles but there are lots of indications that there are larger longer term cycles. The period called the Maunder Minimum was a period where the sun was just a little cooler and there were almost no sunspots for several cycles. We don't have a clue why.

    This is just one of the nerd interests that I picked up when I was young and planned on being in space by now.
     
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  5. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    by Olde Geezer..

    The submarines years ago...the Los Angeles class boats were built, many of them, on an inclined shipway then launched the olde way into the water..in a big ceremony.

    When they got to the piers for final outfitting...I would be working them on the graveyard shift. If I had a simple job without a lot of people around I would put an AM radio in my pocket and an earphone in my ear listening to the all night talk shows. But when someone hit the button on a TIG machine ...it would totally blank out the AM reception until the welder let go of the button. That is a strong field emitting/radiating from that machine.

    Properly used..a TIG and MIG machine can make a beautiful and very strong weld...but it has a very strong field emitting from it.

    They no longer build submarines here on an inclined shipway but horizontally in a very large building and then slowly roll them out and put them in the water via a floating dry dock.



    I miss submarine work. You had to have a little bit on the ball to work in such tight spaces and get the job done. It can put you to the test ...and show if you have the right stuff. A lot of people just cannot handle tight spaces.
    NO reason to panic..on the job.....too tight......there is no room to panic...no where to go.

    This was the beginnings of my learning to work a job...not let a job work me.
    Because working the graveyard shift you often got the worst of the jobs that the other shifts did not want to work...or handle. ON the graveyard shift you also had very few support people for which the other shifts take for granted...you are often out there alone....very little support.

    What do they call that stuff that rolls down hill and happens????

    If I find myself in a job that is working me....I have learned to stop....answer nature's call...get a drink....slow down and think...do not emote..but think it through. Just do not let the job work you.
    I hate it when I detect a job working me and loosing control and discipline over what I am doing.

    This is a big warning flag to me.

    Graveyard shift also taught me not to be afraid of the dark....but be prepared in ways many take for granted being daywalkers.

    I carry with me almost all the time, unless wearing a suit and tie, a mag lite with spare AA batteries. I am never without a pocked knife...and Gerber folding pliers.
    I do not feel properly dressed/heeled unless I start with this basic loadout in gear.

    The night time can be my lover so to speak....she covers me with the bosom of her darkness and thus protects me from much of the daywalker chaos.

    I do not like the day time hours and get my business done and come home...should I have to suffer daywalker hours.


    My non Ishmaelite .02,
    Watcherchris
    Not a Daywalker
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
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  6. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    Been thinking about this Texdanm,

    This is going to be very very stupid if the people moving to this other planet were educated in the same cesspool progressive education schools as much of our leftist leadership and also our phony conservative leadership...only to repeat the same mind control leftist pabulum confusion on this new planet colony.

    Public education today is a what?????

    Just my non Ishmaelite thoughts,

    Watcherchris.
     
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  7. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    One of my undergrad degrees is in electronics. I've worked for the internationals.

    Were we to have an uber solar flare, the surface of the Earth could be burnt off. Yep.

    There is the unsurvivable.

    We and our enemies have nuclear devices (even down to the cruise missile form) that are solely designed to take out, using EMP, hardened electronics w/Faraday cages. We wouldn't deploy these if we didn't think that they'd work. And we also have circuits to survive EMP-weapons. Round and round. It is mind-boggling what the B-2 stealth bombers use to protect circuits. And the Soviets continued to use vacuum tubes in their latter day MiG fighters -- arc then keep on truckin'.

    My point is that electronics and especially EMP-hardened equipment can take more than most people imagine.

    There are limits to all things.

    Our big worry was sending out walking-wounded circuits, ICs with static-damage that continued to work ... for a while anyway. Guys with whom I worked would pop the top on ICs (using god-awful dangerous flammables/potentially-explosive chemicals) and take a peek inside with our factory's electron microscope. The little squares of semiconductor substrate looked like farming fields as seen from an aircraft or like rice paddies. Static discharge damage looked like a 500 pounder had gone off in amongst the fields. Circular, soot-blackened with black radiating spokes they were.

    Civilians must royally prepare for electric grid failure. Even when there is a return to operation, that service will be at best intermittent and only in specific areas. Not everyone is going to get their power back for weeks / months / ...

    Building Faraday cage protection for one's generator is not a futile adventure. Even as on the black market, the military will be pumping fuel post-nuke event and for enough silver, soldiers can be bought. I know for an absolute fact that congressmen are for sale. Soldiers have families and during all wars, soldiers are purchased. WWII, men came back with some wonderful watches; they showed me these multi-jeweled marvels. As a kid, I was dazzled.
     
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  8. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    One thing that you will need if you manage to protect a generator and some of your electrical devices is a manual pump, or electric if your generator is small enough to move, that you could use to tap the underground tanks at gasoline stations.

    During our last long term blackout after Rita we were fortunate to have a local convenience store owner that took it on himself to keep his regular customers fueled up. He let the word go out that he would power up and run his pumps every morning at 5:30 AM. He would bring his generator in on a trailer and pump for about and hour then shut it down. He did this sort of quietly because if people found out you had gas they would swarm you and it was BAD. Lots of fights and lots of anger. There were no gas deliveries coming because the roads were blocked by idiots that sat on the highway running their cars until they either ran out of gas or over heated and burned up. A lot of the convenience stores were packed with people that had pulled into their lots and then just sat there until their cars died. This guy saw what was happening and shut down early on. Gas was about all he had left anyway. The Refugees had stripped the shelves bare.

    I saw a sort of mini version of what an EMP might look like once during a hurricane. Lines got tangled and created a massive short. I was naturally outside in the storm watching it when in the distance there was a HUGE explosion and bright flash. I think it was a transformer station. In the distance but coming towards me there power transformers on the poles were blowing up. It was like a string of firecrackers! I started hunting a hole to get in and managed to get behind my truck before the transformer nearest my house blew up. It sounded like the end of the world! I decided to go in change my drawers and watch the rest of the storm from inside. All this happened just as the eye passed over us. The sky turned pink and it was surreal and spooky as hell. then the other side hit and it went back to a normal storm.

    The thing about anything that is natural is that it isn't predictable. Mother Nature is a psychotic homicidal bitch and if you start to believe otherwise she will bite you in the butt. CMEs can come at us like a spit wad and we lose our fear...then she will hit us with a MOAB! Earthquakes, all sorts of storms, volcanic activity and a lot of other things can all hit us with any imaginable level of destruction or in some cases unimaginable. All we can do is try to encourage some people to try and be prepared so that we can survive as a species. Individual survival isn't possible. We will all grow old and die but if we can pass on some of the things that we have learned to the next generation and that helps them survive the next time Mother Nature or our fellow man slaps us down that is what made us survivors.
     
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  9. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Yes
     
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  10. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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    Even in the prepper community it seems many or planning to survive by clinging to modern conveniences such as fossil fuels and help from someone else , while others are prepared to go cold turkey and immediately go to 1800,s era style living . I guess there is nothing wrong with holding on to the now ways as long as you can but I hope they have a plan when the now ways are gone . In a real apocalyptic situation those niceties will soon be gone .
     
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  11. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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    question , f0r those with green houses . How do you plan to heat your green house when the power goes down and the temperature drops below freezing . Most plants won't survive being frozen .
     
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  12. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I don't use a green house to grow plants during the winter. We have a hot box for germinating our seeds then use the green house to start our plants to give us a little head start in the spring. The hot box is made with insulated patio door panels on top of railroad ties. We heat it with a little electric heater. Since the space is just 12 inches deep about 4 feet wide and 7 feet long it doesn't take much to heat it. the green house id about 10 feet by 10 feet and we usually don't need a lot to heat it enough to keep it above freezing.

    In South East Texas the mid 20s is a really cold night and even that is just for an hour or two just before dawn. During the day the sun will actually make it a little too hot so it takes it a while to cool at night. We put a rock floor in it and have a potting bench with a hundred or so pounds of potting soil in it. these work as heat sinks and stretch how long it takes to cool off. We will heat it with charcoal after the power goes down. We have winters that are mild enough that you can grow almost as much in a winter garden as you can in the summer garden. You just plant different plants.
     
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  13. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    My green house will be below grade and only the clear roof will be above grade. The ground will help insulate and mitigate the temperature drops and the high temps. This appears to work well in area's that DO NOT get a lot of snow. In snow country, the snow would have to be cleared daily, not something I would want to do.
     
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  14. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I don't see how people deal with the snow and bitterly cold winters but there are some advantages that I can see. While the warm is nice there is just no tie of the year when you can hang meat outside of a refrigerator without it rotting. Even things like root cellars don't work here. In the cold places during the winter when you make a kill of a big animal you can take your time processing it and it will keep for a long time without having to be immediately smoked or preserved in some way. This is why I'm big on smaller domestic animals like pot belly pigs, chickens, rabbits, and goats over hogs and cattle. It is just going to be too hard to butcher and preserve that much meat before it spoils here.

    I like the winter squash, cabbage and other winter garden vegetables so I won't suffer much for food in the winter. Honestly I think that down here the meat issue will be lass than zero. We already have an infestation of feral hogs with people killing them in mass. I imagine within a couple of years the hog situation will be a mess and the cattle will be doing much the same thing. We have a lot of goats, long horn cattle and Brahman cattle here and they don't need people to get by. I don't see meat as being any problem at all. The chickens won't last long but the ducks, geese, guineas and peacocks won't have much trouble surviving.

    Rather than green houses I will probably be needing fenced gardens to keep the hogs, deer and critters in general from eating it all.
     
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  15. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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  16. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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    TMT I find your plan interesting from a preppers standpoint . How deep would be reasonable to sink a greenhouse into the ground and what about sunlight I could see where adequate sunlight could be an issue .
     
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  17. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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    Something some might find interesting . I have heard about but never met a neighbor that let his wife have the house and went outside and dug a grave like hole put his bed in the hole and covered over the hole with an old military tent , to keep the rain out . That's where he sleeps year around . I thought that was ingenious surviving .
     
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  18. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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    Living without power . I have another guy that lives about 30 miles from me that is known for living under a rock and eating acorns . Neighbors complain he is starving the deer . I am skeptical of some of the stories told about this guy but suspect some of the stories have some bases of truth . This area has a well deserved reputation of having primitive living people , which makes this area a highly survivable area when the power goes down .
     
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  19. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    The green house is 8 feet deep from the bottom of the sloped roof. The roof is pointed south and runs east to west. This design allows for sunlight all day. The key is to plant crops in the middle (centerline) that like full sun. The side grown crops wold be more early morning and late after noon crops. The roof line is designed to help reflect light back into the greenhouse during the morning and afternoon hours. This is not a cheap design but does allow of all season growing.
     
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  20. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    living without power wont be much of a problem in the milder climates like here in the south west of England, we rarely get snow and when we do it dosent last for long. the growing season is longer than further north.
     
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  21. Duncan

    Duncan Master Survivalist
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    One of the things I didn't notice in this thread is that most of us need electricity to pump their water. In the suburbs in Arizona, our entire city's water supply was pumped through the city system. Remember, when you turn on your waster in your kitchen spigot or shower, the water is under pressure usually by huge electric pumps.

    Here in Idaho, I have my own well, but the static level is 114 feet, and the power from my well comes from the grid. My only option, if I want to avoid dying of thirst if TSHTF is to replace my pump with a submersible dc pump powered by a PV array pumped to an elevated tank which then feeds via gravity.

    A flow of five gal/min times an average of 5.2 sun-hr a day would give me about 1500 gal/day which would be enough for us, our garden, and our animals. But, given the characteristics of our well and an engineering safety factor, would require about 315 array Watts. That'd be probably less than USD 400, but changing out the pump, building a 1000-gal elevated tank, and all the wiring and other balance-of-systems, and I'd be lucky to get away for less than USD 10,000.

    And we haven't talked about buying a solar hot-water heater and a way to heat your house if you don't have a pot-bellied stove and a wood lot on your property!
     
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  22. Duncan

    Duncan Master Survivalist
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    The southeastern part of Idaho is interesting indeed. A very high percentage (probably a majority) of our population are members of the same church, whose guidelines include storing a year's supply of food, minimizing any debts, and taking care of each other and their neighbors -- even if they're of a different denomination. Everyone in each congregation (called "Stakes" and "Wards") seems to have a task, and everyone stays in touch.

    Most stakes present a "preparedness fair" yearly, and the church auxiliary (called the "Relief Society") trains its members in canning, dehydrating, cooking from food storage items, etc. Until recently, almost every young person was either a member of the Girl Scouts or the Boy Scouts, with most boys expected to make Eagle Scout by the time they were 16. Most church members seem to be fit and outdoors types; many hunt, and rumor has it that there may be a few of them with firearms!

    My point is that few such scenarios of desperate city or suburban non-preppers taking over the farms and towns here would be seen. Think prepper theology.

    CTR, baby. CTR.
     
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  23. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    @Duncan
    What is your annual rainfall and could you live off a rain catchment system?
     
  24. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    If I notice new residents at a neighbors location, I wold have to investigate and if foul play appears to be the cause, the new residents would probably suffer the same fate as the original residents. Not from a sense of justice but for survival. If they did it once they will attempt to do it again.
     
  25. Duncan

    Duncan Master Survivalist
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    About 12 inches a year; not much more than Mesa, Arizona, where we used to live. Twin Falls is high desert, although it's intensely irrigated from the Snake River Aquifer (it is dairy/sugar beet/potato crop agriculture).

    I'll always have water, if I can just suck it up a hundred fifty feet!
     
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  26. Oldguy

    Oldguy Master Survivalist
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    Duncan
    2X270w solar panels $200
    2x controller $200
    2x inverter $200

    $6oo should get your pump working for many years
     
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  27. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    As far as water is concerned if you live in a desert where the water level is down below 300 feet you probably need to leave. The aquifer used to be higher and there was enough to support the Native Americans in that area. Those old springs and such are long gone. Places like Las Vegas will be death traps!! Any open water sources will be covered up with people and the fighting will be endless. Dry places also don't have a lot of native wildlife to hunt and the cattle and such will vanish in a hurry. Their water comes from electric wells too.

    If you have a water well with a standing water lever around 100 feet or less you need to find out what size outer case it has and buy a well bucket for it. You pull your well and then lower the bucket to make it easier you put up a frame over it with a pulley. If you have more money you can get a deep well hand pump that will pull water up from around 200 feet.

    https://www.lehmans.com/product/lehmans-own-galvanized-well-bucket/

    This place has a lot of things that might be of interest to people thinking about living without power...
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
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  28. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    If you live in the desert, you had better plan on multiple sources of water and storage. Rain catchment is great but a loss of storage tanks and it is deep doo-doo time. Ponds to hold excess rain run off is another backup. The ponds will help encourage wild game to stick around and will make a good fall back source should something happen to your storage tank (s). Open water will also help encourage the bee population. Standing water does pose a potential problem, if your mosquito population is a problem. If your pond is big enough and deep enough , you could also stock some game fish to both feed the family and help control the mosquito population. Maybe grow some cattails too. Lots of potential. Just some food for thought.
     
  29. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I remember when we lived out to West Texas when I was a kid. That area is dry and there just aren't many open water sources. All over out there you would see wind powered water pumps that were all that allowed cattle to be run on the land without people having to haul water out too them. If I lived in an arid place and had an existing well I would think seriously about getting the makings for a wind powered pumping system and a big cistern to store the water in. Given water the land blooms and makes it pretty easy to grow your own food. Without it you are playing Russian roulette.
     
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  30. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    There's a little power outage in NY, NY. City people are unhappy about this micro-event.

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/nyc-power-outage-manhattan

    "While fortunately no injuries occurred as a result of this incident, the fact that it happened at all is unacceptable," New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo said in a statement. "I am directing the Department of Public Service to investigate and identify the exact cause of the outages to help prevent an incident of this magnitude from happening again. Until the recovery is complete, we will continue to take all necessary actions to ensure the safety and security of New Yorkers."

    How unimaginably pathetic.
     
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  31. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Yes, on the news here too. Imagine what it would be like in a shtf scenario. Absolute chaos! I wonder what caused this blackout, any ideas?
    Keith.
     
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  32. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    I want to see the Boston-Washington corridor to have its power shut down for at least three months. We'll find out whether these folk can behave in a civilized manner.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_megalopolis

    I think we all know that things wouldn't go particularly well, but what a dynamite test of the urban humanity-factor.
     
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  33. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    A simple transformer fire set off a row of dominoes.
     
    TMT Tactical and Keith H. like this.
  34. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
      525/575

    Blog Posts:
    1
  35. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Blog Posts:
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  36. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    This about one stupid political motivation speech considering how often through the years New York and that area has had one power outage after another after another.

    They are not going to prevent anything...it is the nature of the beast when you have that many people living in proximity.
    They had to be running close to peak usage/capacity...in this time of the summer.

    Are you even allowed to have a generator up there without registering it with the state and local governments???

    Do the smart thing..and turn New York into a Sanctuary City and import a half million more people.....you'll be having this go on two or three times during the summer peak season.

    Agree...unimaginably pathetic...Ishmaelites at work.


    Watcherchris
    Not an Ishmaelite.
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  37. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    There are tens of millions of Americans who want these "sanctuary cities" to be the sole destination of undocumented aliens who are here, by definition, illegally. Mark me among those Americans.

    Just like teenagers, liberals want other people to pay for their social theory toys. "My mom and dad will pay for it," becomes, "The deplorables will pay for it; after all, they are the oppressors of humanity!" The collectivists never advance beyond adolescence. Socialism fails dozens upon dozens of times -- such a track record of disaster means nothing to them. "Well, that doesn't count," said the child.

    "The European Union is a near Utopia!" So say the children. Oh by the way, Deutsche Bank is going bust -- and it's D.Bank that is propping up Italian, Greek, and Spanish banks. "That doesn't matter," said the children. "We're happy and we are always going to be happy. You pay taxes and you will pay more and more taxes if we need the money. We will borrow more money if we need money. The national debt actually means nothing." -- Said the children.

    "We can take in tens of millions of people from all over the world; it isn't fair if we don't," said the children.

    Such are the reasons I wish to see the megalopolises destroyed.
     
    poltiregist and TMT Tactical like this.
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