Who Would Restrict Travel First, Big City Or Small Town?

Discussion in 'General Q&A' started by LastOutlaw, Sep 1, 2019.

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  1. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    Let's say that there was a financial crash and everything shut down within a week or so. Banks closed, gas stations closed, stores out of food and can't take credit cards so they all shut.
    Who would restrict travel first, Big cities or small towns?
     
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  2. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    I would bet on the small towns. They are going to want to limit the riff-raff from entering. Why would big cities want to restrict travel, they will not be able to fend for themselves and will need for people to clear out. JM2C
     
  3. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Master Survivalist
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    Seconded. Small towns and counties would want to restrict who was coming in. Big cities wouldn't even notice a new person. Especially if you were walking because there was no fuel.
     
  4. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    I also vote small towns. Curfews first.

    It will fail everywhere, even with roadblocks everywhere. Everything will be blocked, some legally and some illegally blocked.

    I think it is "Cute" that people expect to bug'out to their retreat or rural family, or just out of town. This is one reason I think that preppers will not last much longer then non-preppers.

    That said, this is likely one of the few reasons to have gold coins, to pay-off bribes, and secure illegal transportation to safety, or slightly safer location.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
  5. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good afternoon Last Outlaw and all,

    Ref: a financial crash ... everything ... gas stations;

    You're describing a national disaster and if declared the Presidential Decision Directive governs the disaster recovery; not the States or political subdivisions.

    I have no idea what's written up now but the travel restrictions will probably be the same as prior plans.

    For example;

    a small city and its environs, Stanton, Virginia ( birthplace of WWI President Woodrow Wilson) is near the intersection of 2 key interstate highways so it will be on the list for review.

    A large city like San Diego might get restrictions to give max infrastructure and resources to USN and USMC.

    No gasoline inherently means stop sign towns are closed down. Specifics would typically be determined by the State.

    Key corridors would see restricted travel. One key corridor is the Houston - Port Fourchon (onshore LOOP section), Louisiana. The corridor is holy land. Another holy corridor would be Fairbanks - Valdez, Alaska. The Navy Norfolk corridor, Elizabeth City, North Carolina - Ft Meade, Maryland ... encompasses MCB Quantico with Praetorian Guard ... will have max restrictions.

    I can only guess the rest.
     
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  6. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    @Pragmatist

    Those maybe the plans but when it does hit the plan will last about 10 seconds or as long as I could run up hill.-- not very long. Everybody has a plan and most fail before they get out he door. Who is going to maintain these routes? How are they going to get there, stay there and stop the locals from closing the routes to through traffic? The government always have a plan,, but when was eh last time one actually worked as intended? I think the small towns will block off traffic and only allow what they want through.
     
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  7. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good afternoon TMT Tactical,

    Only fools and sages make predictions and I am no sage.

    The activated plans I participated in did work although not publicized.

    Most of the plans do not fail. Built in redundancy is a factor. Valdez is a non-bank bank. Robbers don't fare well.

    You can guess who / how routes will be maintained. Glance at the Mississippi River route. Do the same for the Tenn-Tom alternate route.

    For every prepper, there are at least ~ 15 times more in preparation for national disasters. Don't go snorkeling around Louisiana Offshore Oil Port.

    Don't forget the Panama Canal !
     
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  8. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    @Pragmatist

    Granted on a small scale or localized problem, there will be enough resources (man power and equipment) but on a national level, I am betting the plans fall apart very quickly. Since the OP is based on a national level event, my comments and position stand.
     
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  9. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    If Martial Law is declared then I would suspect that cities will restrict traffic. I could see a small community in the country controlling who gets in. This I don't think would happen until they saw issues coming out of the larger ones.

    Freeways will be a death trap no matter what. They are not like they used to be. Open and accessible. They all are cemented in with guardrails and walls along both sides and concrete dividers down the middle. Open Google maps and use the satellite image and see how far one has to go to find a gap in the middle these days. Even crossing one on foot unnoticed would be a chore. Forget crossing one unnoticed in a vehicle.

    Addition.
    Rail cars have been and again will be used to block rail crossings in the event of travel restrictions. I have seen gates blocked with tractor trailers as well to stop exit and entry.
     
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  10. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Master Survivalist
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    I suspect those modifications were made on purpose to more easily track and control travelers.
     
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  11. Snyper

    Snyper Master Survivalist
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    If "everything is shut down", who is going to do the "restricting"?
     
  12. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    People who don't have their head up their butt, and can make reasonable and prudent decisions to protect their loved ones and communities.
     
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  13. Snyper

    Snyper Master Survivalist
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    I don't see where they get the right to make those decisions for everyone.
     
  14. Snyper

    Snyper Master Survivalist
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    If Martial Law is declared the cities will have no authority to do anything other than follow the orders of the military.

    But the scenario was "everything is down", so wouldn't that mean there's no Govt at all?
     
  15. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    What happened after the 9-11 Twin Towers attack..........??? Were the banks open, was the securities markets open......??? (I don't know, I was in the deep wilderness guiding Grizzly and Moose hunters till the 22'nd.)
     
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  16. Aerindel

    Aerindel Well-Known Member
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    Small towns.

    If someone else doesn't do it first, I may very well do it myself in 'my' valley.

    But I expect this will happen very very quickly by local government. Even fire departments have no qualms about shutting down highways for a whole day for a traffic accident. Anything serious happens and the local police and FDs will have things shut down pretty fast I think, and if not them, citizens or accidents.

    I still think bugging out is totally possible, but you aren't driving through any other cities to do it, if you are starting in a city, your bug out route needs to be through progressively lower population area's and it needs happen fast.
     
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  17. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    So, everything is shut down. I take that to mean "No Fuel" for anyone that doesn't have emergency tanks. So, within the week semi's are no longer delivering anything, anywhere. People at border states will be crossing into other countries to purchase needed items and fuel. Without the federal government stepping in and stabilizing the financial institutions, similar to the great depression, things would slide sideways quickly. That what the FDIC is for.

    If the government decided to shut things down, then our lives go sideways. No food deliveries, No fuel for anything, sewage treatment plants shut down when the power goes off and employees walk away, same for water treatment plants, hospitals start closing there doors, etc, etc.

    There are a lot of "IF's" in a countries financial institutions failing.

    Dale
     
  18. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    Depending on the severity of the situation, those who do manage to position themselves to bug out may find their vehicles commandeered by the government for the fuel in their tanks. That very thing happened in several places during the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. Fuel was that scarce.


    .
     
  19. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    The big cities are going to have BIG BIG problems that probably won't hit the small towns as fast. Almost as soon as things start to break down in the big urban areas you will see the riots and looting start. The ONLY way to stop and control this is by declaring martial law and putting restrictions on movement and even being out and about in place. There will be dusk to dawn curfews and restrictions on travel in an effort to keep the riots from spreading. Small towns and rural areas are not nearly as likely to have these problems. Small towns may have parts that are poorer but that isn't a ghetto. In general, the "Gangs" don't have the same level of power in more rural towns as they do in big urban areas.
     
  20. Aerindel

    Aerindel Well-Known Member
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    In small towns being dirt poor may just mean you have no money. You may still have food, water, firewood and security. I think the urban poor are different than some of the rural poor in this regard.

    That is the name of the game, its a lot of the 'core' of what serious prepping is prepping for.

    Now, just for sake of argument, lets say the government is not evil and not incompetent.

    I would expect something along the lines of all highways being closed to civilian traffic, enforced by check points, and restricted to government approved trucking. Railways would be kept in operation, as well as airport for military transports.

    A sane government would want to work to keep the cities bottled up at first and only allow controlled immigration of workers to rural areas for food production. The last thing they would want as long as they had any control would be mass 'zombie' invasions of rural areas because they know keeping stability in the rural areas would be the key to staving off mass starvation.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2019
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  21. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    Fire will be a big wildcard. Half or 3/4 or all of some cities and towns could burn to the ground.
     
  22. Snyper

    Snyper Master Survivalist
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    That wasn't "martial law" and most things were open for business as usual.
     
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  23. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Snyper,

    After WTC, 9-11, "most things" WERE NOT "open for business as usual".

    ......

    Woven throughout this thread, "Martial Law" is not being used within its usual and legal meaning.

    For example, today, we're under civilian national/"Federal" law especially in re Hurricane Dorian.
     
  24. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    I think it would be extremely difficult for the U.S. government to enact Marshall law and try to control all movement of it's citizens, without the citizens wanting that control for some reason. Financial collapse is something I can't see the people being very cooperative with as most would blame the government for letting it happen (in their eyes). People that are angry don't need much of a spark (or any) to start rioting and looting in the cities. Locking down large areas with only law enforcement and national guard would prove to be impossible and if the military is brought to bear, in violation of Posse Comitatus Act, the structure of our society would then be in jeopardy. U.S. soldiers firing on U.S. citizens would cause dissention in the ranks and a possible coup on the government by factions in the military that would see such orders as a violation of the constitution.

    If the government acted in a responsible manner, closed the stock markets for a couple days, closed bank for a couple days, Full media push on the FDIC having most peoples money insured and secured, opening the national fuel reserves and encouraging trade to continue. At worst another great depression at best a black Monday event. Either way life goes on and people adapt.

    Dale
     
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  25. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    Now days they declare an "Emergency Order" which is not restrictive like "Martial Law".
     
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  26. Snyper

    Snyper Master Survivalist
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    They were for most of the country.

    It's common for folks to not use the proper definitions for the terms they use.
    It adds to the confusion.

    A "State of Emergency" has restrictions that depend on the level of the emergency.
    Martial Law is when the military takes total control of the Govt and LEO powers.

    The OP is a fantasy scenario and everyone is making up their own versions of how it will be, meaning it's a great way to pass some time, but it serves no real purpose that I can see.
     
  27. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    So YOU Say..........:rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2019
  28. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    So YOU say.........:rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
  29. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    So YOU say..........:rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
  30. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    Sourdough, Who are you talking too? I think I must have missed something.

    Dale
     
  31. elkhound

    elkhound Master Survivalist
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    who can restrict travel? guess what..anyone that has more man power than you..be it a gang,local war lord,county,state or fed agency. or even a lone individual that has over powered you has just restricted your ability to travel.legal or not its still restricted movement...YMMV.
     
  32. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    It is hard to lock down a rural area. You probably would end up using more people to enforce the lockdown that you would actually manage to lockdown. Small towns are a scattered sort of thing with a very small hub that is sort of urban and then a big spread out population of people that are living out in the surrounding areas.

    We measure our yards in acres and in an area that might have several hundred people or even a thousand will only have a handful of people. When you live out like this you tend to have more food in the house and a lot of supplies that might be considered prepping. When it is 25 miles to the store and delivery pizza is a joke you tend to keep more food on hand.

    We lose our lights more often than city folks do for the simple reason that when you live in the woods, trees fall on the lines sometimes when there is a storm. The number of crew that an area has is relative to the number of customers. When we have a big storm we can lose our lights for days and hours are common even with a small storm.

    What this means is that we won't be forced out of our homes and HAVE to go to the store or starve 12 hours after things lockdown. we also have wood available and many of us have 250-500-gallon propane tanks sitting in our yards for heat and cooking. Most larger cities don't allow a lot of the resources that we have.

    In the event of a nationwide lockdown, they will place their emphasis where there are the most people. They will block off interstate freeways and major state highways. I can run all over this county and only cross this sort of road and drive on dirt backroads.
     
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  33. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    Snyper........you must have her on ignore, which is why it does not show up for you, that I am quoting her, and responding.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2019
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  34. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning TexDanm,

    Ref: "a nationwide lockdown";

    Do add emphasis on the small "isolated" towns and those part of major metro areas that are part of the National Strategic Stockpile programs.

    For example, if during a national disaster and helium is needed, Amarillo, Texas will get emphasis. Only been there years ago; believe the HQ office of the stockpile is a few miles from Amarillo.

    Being from the oil industry, I know that the small towns involved in the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, get highlighted.

    The military has a similar stockpile program run out of Fort Belvoir, Virginia (Fairfax County). They manage stockpiles in small towns that get the necessary attention for the program to work during emergency conditions.

    A BIG and successful program that's in place, with a great experience record, is the "Strategic National Stockpile". Not the best of names from my view because it sounds like an umbrella term for all the stockpiles and caches, but this name is for the medical stuff; the vaccines, the antibiotics, the portable clinics, the loads of emergency medical beds. The medical response stuff is so critical, it has dedicated US Marshall's Service officers.

    I don't know about the agriculture stocks and their locations. Will only say, the small towns involved in the food supplies - just like the the other places.

    Other than my above early AM rambling, yes, indeed, you've described what to expect.
     
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  35. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    Thanks! Your right, on the ignore list.

    Dale
     
  36. Snyper

    Snyper Master Survivalist
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    The evidence supports it.
    You already admitted you don't know at all.

    You said you ignore me too, but that's just another lie.

    Is calling me "her" and "it" supposed to be an insult too?

    It seems like a pretty childish reaction to the simple truth.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2019
  37. Snyper

    Snyper Master Survivalist
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    You can see who he's talking to since he quoted me.
    I'm not sure why you would pretend otherwise, but it's not going to fool anyone who isn't blind. :)
     
  38. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    So YOU say. However they can't see the Quote, if they have the "Troll" on ignore.
     
  39. Snyper

    Snyper Master Survivalist
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    More name calling?
    I guess that's the best you can do.

    You seem to do more real trolling than anyone on this site.
    It comes as no surprise though.
    :)
     
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