Why preppers shouldnt live in a city.

Discussion in 'Urban Survival' started by lonewolf, Jul 28, 2016.

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  1. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    1. cities are a prime target for terrorists.
    2. terrorists can blend/disappear into a city population much easier than in a small town or village where everyone knows each other and strangers stand out.
    3. hazardous materials are shipped by rail and truck through cities.
    4. chemical plants and refineries are located in/near cities(anyone remember Buncefield?).
    5. Gangs (250 street gangs in London alone).
    6. international airports-easy spread of disease.
    7. bacterial and viral infections spread easily in highly populated areas.
    8. people are removed from their food and many don't know how to get food that dosent come from a store.
    9. a typical city has a 9 meal/3 day food supply, at which time all the food is gone and has to be resupplied from an outside source.
    10. people haven't had to prepare as a way of life.
    11. the density of prisons, criminals on probation, on bail or just released, and those on ankle monitors.
    12. the entitlement/welfare mentality is more accepted in urban areas.
    13. overworked, underpaid, understaffed police and emergency services.
    14. hospitals are not staffed or equipped for disasters and will quickly be overrun.
    15. many urban dwellers rely on others to look after them.
    in a disaster situation, all the above will be multiplied many times over.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2016
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  2. Para173

    Para173 Well-Known Member
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    Lonewolf, all your points make sense. One thing that I do want to point out is that the 1918 outbreak of the Spanish Flu did NOT involve airports. Airplanes, at the end of WW1, were still a pretty new invention and still in their crude stages of development. Instead of worrying about airports, I would rather pay very close attention to local, regional and national disease control centers about the possible spread of a disease like the 1918 Spanish Flu. If you get a chance, research that disease. The Spanish Flu of 1918 was a true pandemic, not an epidemic. It was thought to have circled the world 4 times and killed millions of people. Here in the U.S. whole families were sometimes wiped out by the disease. There are reports of bodies being wrapped in sheets, an identification card or paper was pinned to the sheet and a local morgue wagon would come around to pick up the dead and take them away for a mass burial with all the others who had died within the last 24 hours or so. It was bad while that flu ran its course. Efforts to trace the flu back ended up with the cause being a chicken farm in France, some soldiers are thought to have caught the flu virus from some chickens that were contaminated by mingling with wild ducks. If you check, you'll find out that Mother Nature uses wild ducks and wild geese and petri dishes to cook her viruses which mutate and get transmitted to other animals which eventually make their way to humans.

    So, all things considered, I would make plans to always be ready to confront potential diseases like the Spanish Flu. The CDC (Center for Disease Control in the U.S.) has been trying to locate and store a batch of the 1918 Spanish Flu. Rumor is that they "might" have gotten lucky and done it. If they have, they are in control of one of the deadliest viruses to ever hit mankind in the last 150 years. Hopefully the CDC will be able to keep their Spanish Flu virus under lock and key like they should but if they don't we should have an idea or plan of what we will do if it escapes. Which is why I am less worried about airports and more worried about news of any disease outbreaks.
     
  3. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    wasn't the 1918 flu pandemic caused by soldiers coming back from WW1? that's what we were told.
    any disease these days will spread quickly because of our rapid transport systems, planes railways roads.
     
  4. Para173

    Para173 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, it was believed that the Spanish Flu came back to the U.S., Britain, Canada and other parts of the world by being transported via returning soldiers. One doctor thought that he had managed to trace the starting point of the flu back to a small town or farm in France. The incubation time for the flu was interesting in that it didn't hit immediately. You got exposed and it took a little while for the flu virus to build up in your system. After a while you came down with the flu, became incapacitated, needed medical care and, in many cases, died from it. After it had run its course and travelled around the world, supposedly 3 or 4 times, the virus transmutated, got weaker and finally died out. But it left behind a weaker strain which is what we sometimes catch every now and again in a modified form. Over the years the original virus which was labelled something like H1N1 has changed to the point that they now reference down to like H5N2 or something meaning that there has been like 5 major changes or modifications to the original flu virus with at least another 10 or more, depending on who you talk to, minor changes inside the virus cells. For a while I had to study up on retroviruses and pandemics for a job that I did. I found the research to be very interesting. But what is out there can be very scary once you start to study it. Ebola, dengue fever and a whole list of other diseases can suddenly pop up without warning and be a much more effective killer than most people can ever imagine.
     
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  5. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I stopped having the flu jab about 5 years ago after some controversary over what was in it, someone said there was swine flu in it one year, I don't go to crowded places during the flu season and since stopping having the jab I haven't had the flu. if a pandemic were ever to occur i'm going into personal isolation, lockdown until the thing has run its course, that's another reason for having a food stash.
     
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  6. Para173

    Para173 Well-Known Member
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    I seriously believe that you could be more close to the truth than you realize with this post. There is nothing more cruel than Mother Nature. When Ma Nature decides to kill off a species, she does it in massive numbers which makes your post here capable of being more accurate than most people will ever understand. She wiped out the dinosaurs with a fireworks display that changed the whole world. She's hit mankind with the bubonic plague, smallpox and the Spanish Flu. For us, she's just been warming up and teasing us so far. One day soon she will let loose with her REAL assassin which will goon more of us than we expect. The 25 to 33% of the population that we lost with the plague will be nothing compared to what she has brewing in her chemistry sets right now.
     
  7. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    the generally accepted estimate of the mortality rate is more likely in the region of 90-95%.
     
  8. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    and during the plague the population was quite low, these days the population is much higher and as most(80%) of the British people now live in close proximity to each other in cities or large "urban centres" any disease will spread like wildfire, given the speed of our transit systems distance wont be any obstacle either.
     
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  9. JimLE

    JimLE Expert Member
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    some dont even know how to cook,for one reason or another..or simply not capable of cooking,due to a handicap..
    9. a typical city has a 9 meal/3 day food supply, at which time all the food is gone and has to be resupplied from an outside source.
     
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  10. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    and most people don't even know that, they expect the food to be in the store when they want it.
     
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  11. JimLE

    JimLE Expert Member
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    true..and with the way things look in the news right now.i figure that'll become a major problem before this years end..
     
  12. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    now that wouldn't surprise me at all.
     
  13. CivilDefense

    CivilDefense Expert Member
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    We don't live in the city. There were a number of factors why we chose to live on rural acreage and off the beaten path. A big factor was preparedness reasons. I don't want to be in a major population center when it hits the fan.
     
  14. AuntB

    AuntB Active Member
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    The OP is correct with all his reasons but prepping is not cheap. I know putting a little aside every week will build your reserves but living near a city is close to higher wages, medical services. Plus what if S never HTF? I have read posts on other sites telling people to get out of the city now!!!
    Depends on your definition of prepare. I live near a metro area and I see backyard chickens and small gardens. These urban dweller are learning skills but they are not doing it on a large scale. I know someone who lives in a high rise and they grow vegetables on their balcony.
     
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  15. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    it dosent have to be large scale just big enough to suit ones own circumstances.
     
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  16. AuntB

    AuntB Active Member
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    Exactly plus many think gardening is easy. Just throw some seeds in the dirt and they believe a garden will grow. Being a gardener, I had many failures. Bugs, soil issues and excessive heat.
     
  17. survivalgames121

    survivalgames121 Well-Known Member
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    But there is a problem with tgat statement: people get over small and simple illnesses and become imune to it. If u isolate yourself till it runs its course you will still get it. Its just going to be that everyone else has already had it
     
  18. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    read my post again, I said I wasn't coming out until the pandemic had run its course, its gone, done, over...get it?
     
  19. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    The Russians weaponized anthrax due to its spore-forming property. It can go dormant in the dirt for decades. You dust-up the dirt, you and yours develop pulmonary anthrax 20 years after the bio-war. It's like cobalt bomb nukes -- the gifts that keep on giving.

    However, most bacterium and viruses harmful to humans need carriers. Once the carriers are rotted or burned and gone, then the threat level drops like a stone.

    To me, bio weapons are the scariest. They can do more damage casualty-wise than nukes and are super cheap to bring into existence. Think about how many exchange students are in your country using biology labs! So simple to wipe-out cities ... or just panic the people, stampede them. "A pox be upon you!"
     
  20. kevy39

    kevy39 New Member
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    I find that..cities are bad attitude to be all wrong. Totally shtf no where will be heaven. I know plenty of people who stay in cities that are prepared and semi of grid. More so that some fake prepers who live in rural areas. People are just that and will find a way to survive. Cities or rural.
     
  21. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    In cities, people are packed too closely together. If there is a contagion, everyone gets it. If there is a maelstrom of a fire, numerous buildings go up in smoke simultaneously.

    Houses in cities usually haven't enough yard to grow a garden. And if a garden does exist, during hard times, "people" will shoot at you to steal from that garden.

    People in cities are less social and often do not know, much less care, about their neighbors. There are notable exceptions, however people in small towns and in many rural areas are simply friendlier. Many people in small communities are church members and thus have ready-formed support structures.

    The people of cities are rarely self-sufficient. When shortages appear, so does the rioting and looting. Houses and apartments will be attacked over and over and over again until nothing is left. If one shoots back, then the packs of aggressors will figure that the place is worth attacking, thus making it an even larger target.

    I guess that in cities one can hunt rats and feral dogs during a SHTF situation. There will however be more people to kill and eat than animals. Maybe in NY, NY there may be more rats. After the nukes go up, the rats in NY, NY will already be cooked.
     
  22. kevy39

    kevy39 New Member
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    That’s one way to look at it. And you could be right. I just feel that cities are bad and rural is good attitude to be all wrong There will be more chance of finding commodities in a city ie doctors,carpenters and a like.
     
  23. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    post SHTF the cities will be places of death and disease, only fit for the dead and the dying.
    any "resource" that was ever there was used up long ago.
     
  24. kevy39

    kevy39 New Member
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    As I said that’s one way to look at it.
     
  25. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    maybe, but they found that out the hard way during The Fire of London and The Blitz(not just London).
     
  26. kevy39

    kevy39 New Member
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    True. But if I remember rightly the people pulled together and the services done there job. So the aftermath was organised. Mayhem and madness did not win? So we learn from the past to educate our future. Some will see nothing but turmoil and some won’t. I chose the more sensible option and don’t write anyone of
     
  27. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    well sometimes we can look to the past to see how things happened, but many of the things that could happen haven't happened yet. that's the point, as preppers we tend to prepare for something that hasn't happened yet. even if we know what is coming most of the population hasn't prepared yet so whether they can survive without any preparation is unsure.
     
  28. kevy39

    kevy39 New Member
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    I don’t pretend to know what most of the population will or won’t do. I live my life the best way I can. I can’t prepare myself for the unknown with food and water and tools etc alone. so I live my life 2 months ahead with provisions and gain the knowledge I need to produce a lifestyle and the tools required for that lifestyle. I would rather stand without provisions than have no clue and pretend solely food water would allow me to survive If I cannot provide myself with what nature provides NOW! then I have no right to survive!
     
  29. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I agree with every word of that, unfortunately the "masses" might decide they have a RIGHT to what you have, hopefully you are as far away from them as you can get.
     
  30. kevy39

    kevy39 New Member
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    Understandable. But I gained my knowledge before I moved to the country. City living ! Masses? Do you know something I don’t because I come from a rather large family who’s friends have large family’s and so on. I know a vast amount of people and have yet to find some one who isn’t prepared. What you are forgetting to understand is most! People who preper are silent prepers then you have small groups of active prepers. Small family groups and so on. What you see on your tv is a camara pointed at 5% of the uk population in every day life meeting and seeing people in the town or small villages are only 1% of the population. Your statement of the masses is unfounded and old news my friend
     
  31. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    oh I have moved around a lot, I have mixed with many different sorts and a lot of council and housing estates, my eyes have been opened! to what one human will do to another in the name of profit or gain.
     
  32. kevy39

    kevy39 New Member
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    Yes there are some bad types out there. Still to judge 99% Of the population on 1% is not very reliable is it? But I believe I am of topic slightly.

    Living in a city is no reason not to prep. And no reason to move if prepping in a city. Play with the cards that are dealt is the only option some have.
     
  33. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    living in the city is every reason TO prep not not to.
     
  34. kevy39

    kevy39 New Member
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    Yes but the title to the thread implies. A preper should not do this in a city. Which in my opinion is bollocks.
     
  35. kevy39

    kevy39 New Member
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    I think for MY survival on this forum it best I agree to disagree with you @lonewolf
     
  36. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    it just shows the pitfalls of living in a city, I know , I lived in a city for 43 years both man and boy, and I probably made most of them at one time.
     
  37. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    Because of having to move to "where the work is" (high-tech / bio-sciences), I have lived in largish cities -- 800K people to 1.5 million people. Some sections of cities can be very civilized, yet take the wrong street and end up in a third-world country.

    In one major city there were two primary routes that I used on a regular basis to get me into city-central. Within one year, each route saw an innocent person (tourist or suburbanite non-drug-related) killed along its route -- this on the sidewalk or in the street itself. During lunch-time, I could visit a certain fast-food establishment. During the night, the police didn't want to go into that area.

    Praise be unto God that I am now able to live in a small town (the commute is pretty, yet miles long). People here work on their cars, their homes, they have gardens. This place is of mixed race, however everyone is of a responsible mind and have a work ethic. Here, even as was the case where I grew up, it is in-your-face that the folk to avoid are mean white folk. Raw bigotry can lead one astray. Danger comes in all colors. Some cultures PROMOTE aggression -- avoid those lands.

    The owning of private property promotes responsibility. Witness the difference in maintenance of rental properties vs. private. The difference is stark.
     
  38. TexDanm

    TexDanm Master Survivalist
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    Not everyone has the option or ability to bug out before the balloon goes up. That doesn't mean that you can't make preparations. I actually got into survival and into a militia while I was living in a city. I was raised spending a lot of time in the country. But if you wanted to make a good living you needed to be near places that paid good money for skilled work.

    If you are trapped in a city by a good job you have to make some serious adjustments. I always had a place to go...actually several. My kit was always packed. It wasn't a bag it was a footlocker I could throw it into the camper on my truck and be gone in just a few minutes. The truck was loaded all the time with basic food and three guns and had three gas tanks.

    When the opportunity allowed me to do so I moved to the country but it was the money and knowledge I got while I lived in the city that allowed it to happen. Survival is first and foremost about being adaptable and flexible. Whether you are in a city or in the backwoods your survival will be dependent on what you can do and how fast you can get it done.

    I have several ideas on ways to deal with the issues of living in a city. It makes it a little harder but it can be dealt with. It requires planning and some adaptations but if you plan ahead you can get out and do well.
     
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  39. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I couldn't wait to get out of the city, I got out once then got dragged back in by circumstances, eventually managed to get out permanently 20 years ago and wild horses wouldn't drag me back there again, i'm a country boy at heart, always have been, I cant stand crowds. and I cant stand most people. that's why I prefer to be alone.
     
  40. TexDanm

    TexDanm Master Survivalist
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    I was fortunate in that even when I was in the city I was on the edge with a swamp wilderness for a neighbor. I was walking distance from the woods with hunting and fishing. The problem with it was that when the oil industry folded up in the 80s 30% unemployment just ate the place up. Racial tensions made it a place that I wouldn't raise my child and I bailed out. I didn't have anything much to lose by that point.
     
  41. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I inherited my mothers love of nature and the countryside (farmers daughter), I was brought up as an only child, an inquisitive loner, and spent most of my time in the fields and woods surrounding our suburban home or on the beach near the sea, later on I graduated to the moors and tors(granite outcrops).
     
  42. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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  43. TexDanm

    TexDanm Master Survivalist
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    It might be fun to see what a machete armed thug would think when I whipped out my sword. Actually I would probably just shoot him but a little sword play might be entertaining. I'm seriously looking a a sword in a walking cane right now. I have a sword in my truck but I would just love to see how a thug would react when the old fart with a walking cane goes samurai on him. LOL...
     
  44. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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