Why Some People Still Think Climate Change Isn’t Real

Discussion in 'Climate Change' started by Keith H., Oct 9, 2019.

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  1. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    https://www.news.com.au/technology/...l/news-story/558f9a76f49cd38e7a2cf5ab5d16fa37

    Why some people still think climate change isn’t real
    Climate change is real, but many still don’t believe it. You’re more likely to be a denier if you have these personality traits.

    Sigmund Freud and his daughter Anna were the great chroniclers of denial. Sigmund described this negation of reality as an active mental process, as “a way of taking cognisance of what is repressed”. This fleeting comprehension is what distinguishes denial from ignorance, misunderstanding or sheer disbelief. Climate change denial involves glimpsing the horrible reality, but defending oneself against it.
     
  2. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Climate change is real and has been happening since the dawn of time. Man made climate change is pure B.S. concocted by politicians and lame scientist that failed to do the work and created flawed climate models to justify their existence.
     
  3. Oldguy

    Oldguy Master Survivalist
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    I was repeatedly assured in the mid seventies that by the year 2000
    That the seas would have risen by over a meter
    That global temperatures would have risen by three degreesC
    Australia would cease to have a snow season
    Most of the world would be in permanent drought
    The Arctic would be ice free in there summer
    etc
    etc!

    Did not happen
    Still waiting two decades on

    The one thing that has happened is a huge guilt trip and a draining of the peoples wallets

    coupled with people telling me how to live my life!

    Been banned from several forums for this attitude/opinion and will probably get banned from here as well as the same moderater is on this forum to, he either bans posters or if he gets many objectors he just up and leaves, yes his way or the highway
    Last forum he banned me from has died
    This one is heading the same way sorry to say
     
  4. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Old Guy,

    What you're writing about is the fraudsters' use of an important subject for their own sinister reasons.

    The globe is experiencing a change - but not because of the typical reasons mentioned in the lame stream media.

    We ran into this same situation with the intro of the atomic age and the intro of television at about the same time.

    Of course fraudsters exploit all this to drain people's wallets. Avoid the doomday media and their followers. Do follow those worried about such matters as an over-abundance of coastal dwellings with little supporting infrastructure such as all-weather roads, road maintenance programs, epidemic prevention ... the medical authorities can't even get people to get no-cost flu shots here ...

    Middle age retirees in their subsidized houses on the coast get sick from mosquito bites and the infections transfer hundreds of miles away in a short time.

    MSF.COM allows for different and even antagonistic views on this subject.
     
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  5. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    IMHO most people would agree the climate is changing. I don't deny that. The debate starts when someone, usually a Politician, says " Now open your wallet. We have to fix this." Wait a minute. Back the truck up.

    As TMT stated, climate always changes. Mother Nature is going to do whatever she wants to do. I don't think mankind has anything of any significance to do with it.

    1.) How much climate change is significant?
    2.) How are you going to fix it? What evidence do you have that you can fix the problem?
    3.) How much is it going to cost?
    4.) How do you know that IF you fix it, it will stay fixed?

    The earth is what? 4-4 1/2 Billion years old? We have been studying climate for what? 300 - 400 years? 400 divided by 4 Billion? Is there any statistical significance in anything that is published? As previously mentioned none of the gloom and doom predictions have come true.
     
  6. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    In fast-thawing Siberia, radical climate change is warping the earth beneath the feet of millions
    https://www.adn.com/nation-world/20...rping-the-earth-beneath-the-feet-of-millions/


    You think this is normal?
    Keith.
     
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  7. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    You should not believe everything you read, you need to do your own research. Frankly I would not expect to hold anyone to any prediction where is concerns nature & the environment, & I would imagine that the scientists too would expect some variation. Right now climate change is accelerating faster than previously expected, so do we start shouting bullshit you got it wrong again?! No, not if we are sensible, we accept that they made a mistake, the important thing for us is that climate change disaster caused by humans is real, & as preppers & survivalists it is only common sense that we prepare.

    Ask yourself, what have these scientists got to gain from telling lies? Nothing, their jobs are secure. Do they make extra money from it? No. What do we lose by believing in humane made climate change & preparing for the worst? I will tell you. If you have not already prepared, then you stand to lose your present lifestyle, & you don't want that to happen. Well here is some news, no matter what the major survival situation turns out to be, the chances are your lifestyle will have to change anyway.
    Keith.
     
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  8. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Yes, the planet has gone through numerous sever climate changes, all without the help of mankind. Instead of the fear mongering, the reals scientist have tracked the changes to solar activity, which actually does explain how and why these changes are happening. Mankind has zero--doodidly squat to do with it. Here is the short version.

     
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  9. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I don't have any doubt that the climate changes. It has done so thousands of times and hundreds of times in human history. I just don't believe that it is the end of the world and am not convinced that it is now somehow caused by the US. Anyone that doesn't believe in climate change is woefully ignorant. The Sahara Desert was at one time a lush savanna tyle place and in a previous warmer period there was a huge part of the middle of the US that was underwater. The Guadalupe Mountains in West Texas are actually not normal mountains it is a huge fossil reef from that time period.

    People have lived through a lot of climate changes that ranged from things like the little ice age through something that happened about 50,000 years ago that almost wiped us out. Based on genetic diversity it is estimated that there were as few as 5000 survivors that we are all now descended from.

    Even if we are in an apocalyptic period of possible climate change I don't think that basically cutting our throat by making the sweeping changes that some seem to want will make matters any better and may doom us. That is just bullshit and mostly politically motivated by weak trying to drag down the strong...even though that strength is a large part of what feeds them and keeps them free.

    A lot, maybe even most of the things that we are being told is media hype. The media is always going to seek out the most extreme people in any situation because they thrive on sensationalism. The so calls experts on climate change makes a very good living on crying wolf and are going to continue to do it as long s they are well paid to do so.

    The next time you read about some record-breaking weather events take a moment to actually think about it. Most time when they tell us about the record-breaking weather occurrences they will also tell about previous records. I know that in almost every heat record that has happened in the US that it was just slightly hotter than at a time in the 60s and then another record from around the early 1900s. If this is climate change then what was it in the past when it was also VERY hot? The same is equally true about cold inters and the number, strength and where hurricanes form and make landfall. All of these things are KNOWN to be cyclic.

    A change in the WEATHER is a part of a normal climate. Climate change has to be a long term change an NOT a change even as long as a couple of decades of change. I don't deny that we are having a lot of hot weather right now. I don't really care if the North polar ice all melts. it will have no effect on sea levels. The polar bears will adapt or die out. I'm not really very concerned about the bears. Other than man they are the most adaptive species on Earth. Regardless, that sort of thing has been happening for millions of years. Species that can't adapt and have become too specialized die out and are replaced by others.
     
  10. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    Of course it's "normal".
    There have been periodic Ice Ages since the beginning of time.

    In between are warming cycles.
    We are in one of those now.
     
  11. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    I do not buy into the idea that mankind can stop any kind of climate change that may occur . But for interest on the matter I would like the believers tell us , what humans are supposed to do to stop it .
     
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  12. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    If the climate is changing as fast as some tout , those that can adapt or migrate will survive . Those that simply hunker in place and wait for the world to come to their rescue will perish .
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
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  13. Oldguy

    Oldguy Master Survivalist
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    You should not believe everything you read, you need to do your own research

    True!
    I did my own research and still do
    He who pays the piper calls the tune! most climate scientists are paid to confirm global warming, if they report the truth they loose there grants!
    I have read many research papers where the numbers say no cooling but the conclusions are that it is warming
    Looking at the hard raw data before it is adjusted for this or that I found no warming trend globally.
    Yes there are some local warming trends due to deforestation or development but that is miniscule compared to the much larger trends
    Just look at the Malinovich cycle, that's a combination of many cycles and much power, mankind has no chance of changing them

    And just to top it off CO2 is atmospheric PLANT FOOD not a pollutant, if we are to feed a rising population then we need more atmospheric CO2 to grow more food

    But by all means concentrate on the AGW lie and ignore the iceman sneaking up behind you

    Cold is a silent death! ignore it at your peril:D
    All my preps take cold into account
    Can this prep still function at 20C below normal temperatures, where I live it rarely go's below 10C so for me I need everything to function down to -10C and that is 50-50 concentrate coolant in vehices
     
  14. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    There's the belief in climate change.

    The Earth's lines of magnetic flux are weakening. This will let in more solar radiation (and every other kind of radiation from this universe). Heating is the result.

    There's the belief in climate change wherein it is humanity that caused it all due to the burning of fossil fuels. That is straight-up leftist horse excrement. It is this era's BIG LIE. May we humans be causing some part of it? Maybe, but I've not seen the evidence.

    Most leftists hate Western Culture. And bleeding hearts will believe anything, apparently. When I hear "climate change" and "oppression" in the same paragraph, I know that I'm hearing a secular humanist sermon.

    In my childhood, I got preached-at quite enough by the serotonin-deficient people. Got tired of it a few decades back.

    The Brits oppressed the Irish. The Irish pushed back. The Irish lost. The Irish kept on learning British engineering and military ways. The Irish finally won. Good.

    When an oppressed people push back and win, you know that they have evolved, have grown stronger, have grown smarter. Rip out a bully's bowels and show them to him before putting one in his head.

    Where I'm from, the mine-workers armed themselves and killed the mine owners and their hired police. Good.

    Oh, I like driving my SUV. I'll continue doing so as long as I can afford to do so.

    I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO full of anger I could explode.
     
  15. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    For those that want to blame other people because they feel uncomfortably hot , " take hart " your problem " being solved " is on the horizon . The collapsing economies we are seeing in numerous countries will cause a human die off if this trend continues . Desperate starving nations may even trigger a world war .
     
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  16. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
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    IMO It's more related to geographic rather than psychological. It is very difficult for anyone who were not affected (yet) by global warming to even believe the problem exist. But for someone like me who is affected in daily basis I don't even need some scientist / academia / whatever to tell me about global warming because I literally feel it on my skin in daily basis.
     
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  17. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I actually have read where supposedly intelligent people that are all over this end of the world if it warms up 5 degrees have said that if the arctic polar ice cap melts that most coastal cities will be underwater. That is about the stupidest thing that I have ever heard. If you flash thawed the Northern ice to liquid the ocean level wouldn't change a bit. Prove it for your self. Fill a glass nearly to the top with water then place a bunch of ice cubes in it. and then finish filling it until it is filled right to the top. Watch it. As the ice melts you will notice that the water level doesn't change. DUH!!! Water expands as it freezes and then the volume shrinks as it melts. And THESE people are the leaders of the Global Warming thing??? They don't even have a grasp of elementary school physics!

    If the world warms up a few degrees then that means that people in the upper part of the US might have summer weather more like Texas. OH NO THAT ISN'T SURVIVABLE!!!!! ROTFLMFAO
     
  18. watcherchris

    watcherchris Master Survivalist
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    Climate change is people Herding....is Ishmael...and Ishmael is bondage...

    Watcherchris
    Not an Ishmaelite.
     
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  19. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    Frankly, I find this post by the OP insulting and nothing more.
     
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  20. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    I am so curious what changes that you feel on your skin that you did not feel a hundred years ago.
     
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  21. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    By the way, here is Greta speaking with no script written for her to read to all.

     
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  22. watcherchris

    watcherchris Master Survivalist
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    Climate Change is the ultimate herding scheme for power and control world wide...the very dream of people and organizations for centuries.

    People in the psychology business have learned that people work best for another's power and control if they fear something.

    Fear is the stimulus to get people to cede more power and control to others...

    In this case more government...power and control over our lives....herding


    If you think about it...…..growing government is becoming the number one competitor and consumer both... for resources in any country....particularly with the grown government need for social welfare..to buy up public votes....against the people...who work for their monies...and pay taxes.

    And more welfare rolls means more carbon....

    And governments often finance this by inflation ...borrowing more monies into the economy or printing which amounts to the same thing....meaning more consumption....more carbon.

    A huge welfare population often means more votes for government to stay in power and control and regulate the people ..as well as the economy so government can consume more of the economy ..produce more carbon...for votes to keep this cycle going.

    Now someone wants the power to do this world wide..with a central government....over all nations....and the fear of climate change is the ultimate route to world dominance...and world government ...world control.

    Another solution in need of a problem to get control over people and governments.


    Think G. F. W. Hegel....George Fredrick Wilhelm Hegel.....thesis, anti thesis, synthesis...also known as good cop/bad cop.

    Except that when you apply this to politics....seeking more power and control over the herd...it becomes a solution in need of a problem.

    It becomes reversed....

    And it is become very clear today that much of politics has become reversed....in it's intrinsic values and therefore thinking.


    But the method of operation has not changed...get people afraid that they cede to the body politic more power and control over their peoples lives.


    The ultimate quest for power has been world wide power and control...over everyone and everything..the ultimate herding scheme....

    This has never changed....and Climate Change is the chosen path ..world wide...


    Thanks Last Outlaw..for posting the video of Greta...

    I suspected from the start that she was someone's puppet....Puppet Poster Girl.

    Not the first time this has been done.

    When Greta made that speech in which she said..."How Dare You....." that confirmed it for me...


    In the end...if these people get power world wide....Climate Change will be the ultimate government tool for Genocide/Democide...world wide...Population Control...

    The intent and goal has always has been to thin out the world wide population by some 85 to 90 percent.

    To cull the herd...of "Useless Eaters."


    My non Ishmaelite .02,
    Watcherchris
     
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  23. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
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    The air is freaking HOT nowadays compare to 30 years ago. So does the Sun IR radiation (heating) that is felt on my skin, feel free to come here or anywhere in equatorial region if you don't believe me. The water sea temperature (up to 100' depth) is also getting warmer compare to 20 years ago, it used to be rather cold down there even during broad daylight.
     
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  24. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    the sea is also much warmer too, we are getting species around the coast of the UK that until recently were only found further South.
     
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  25. Caribou

    Caribou Expert Member
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    I grew up at a marina that my family still owns. I can testify that the sea level has neither risen nor receded in the past 70 years.

    This climate change farce is all about control. I past times and cultures the volcano gods required a sacrifice. Witches were the cause of evil and must be burned. This god or that god were angry and TPTB had the answer so you must do as we say. There have been useful sheeple for all of history. Keep telling the same lie long enough and many start believing it.

    Want that government grant? Come out for climate change or we break your rice bowl.

    As we age our bodies become less tolerant of temperature changes. Thirty years ago I could tolerate far more heat and cold than I can today. My body can't control those aspects like they did when I was younger. That is part of the human condition and ageing.

    Every year for my life and for the lives of my grandparents before me there have been record highs and record lows somewhere. If you look at the graphs that they show you to prove climate change, take those graphs and extend them back 25, 50, or 100 years and find out what they show. The graphs are selected to show specific times to prove their point when longer periods prove them liars. They edit out what they don't want you to see.
     
  26. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Caribou,

    Appreciated reading your immediately above post. It's exactly on target ... or for the mariners exactly on course.

    The control is now in place. Some examples:

    We've got the European Climate Exchange (ECX) for financial instrument trades involving "carbon". This ECX is admitted for trading on ICE Futures Europe. ICE = International Commodities Exchange, London.

    Starting in only a few weeks, on 1 January '20, all merchant vessels must be fuel compliant with the new anti-pollution fuels for the boats. This evaporates away the vessels Jackie Kennedy - can't spell newer last name - knew about with marriage to Greek shipping guy.

    Remember our academic scientists of the hokey stick graphs at the University of East Anglia, UK ? These well paid sinecures are really just political operatives.

    Besides being "on target" / "on course", I appreciate the macro-format. At one time it was the volcano gods and the required sacrifice of the first born. "Witches" got my attention. There's a large history of witches from their era of prominence. Witches were socio-economic-political leaders of communities - counterparts to the rabbis, priests, reverends, immans and those other names east of the Euphrates. Finally, the witches and their communities were destroyed. Again, this got my attention, because today in the US, the 2 fastest and largest growing "religions" (in broad sense of the term) are:
    1. Astrology and 2. Wicca. I attend veterans meetings and emergency management/responder meetings and the younger people show basic evidence of their affiliation.....no less so than the old Rotary clubs, Masons, and etc.

    What also got my attention: "rice - bowl". I'm an Asia-ologist. Over half my working life was in Asia.

    Yes, it's all about wealth acquisition and wealth transfers.
     
  27. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    i would reply to this but I really cant be bothered, denial isn't just a river in Egypt.
     
  28. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Lonewolf,

    My statements and what I inferred from Caribou's is not focused to denial. The overall theme is the use of the global situation to acquire wealth.

    For example: "Want that government grant?" and my "Europe Climate Exchange". Will India and China participate in this ?

    ...

    Now do recall I introduced here at the forum the Northwest Passage and the Northeast Passage, also known as the "Northern Route". The waterway through Canada, although not currently viable for commercial routes, is not open because of global cooling.
     
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  29. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    Real statistics that climate changers are not seeing (or don't want to see):






    .
     
  30. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    "UK will be left underwater in 80 years time".
    www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/chilling-doomsday-map-shows-how-20803818
    some people obviously think climate change is real.
    its a bit like the Nazis killing all those millions of Jews, a lot of people didn't think that was true(some still don't), turned out it was true but it didn't help the Jews much.
     
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  31. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    And how many believed that the Jews had to be exterminated so the Aryan race could prosper? What is the difference?

    Why is it the European people seem to have fallen hook, line and sinker for climate change theory? Yes Theory. It is a theory not fact. So being a theory why so many simply accept it as fact? Not capable of critical thinking in their own? Not capable of looking for different possibilities and making an educated decision on their own based on delving into numerous THEORIES rather than just taking the bait and swallowing the hook?

    How long ago was it that no one believed that there was a globalist push for a new world order? Not very long ago yet we know now that it is real.

    Prove global warming or man made climate change and I have no problem falling in line. So far no one has proved it and no one can because the climate has not been tracked long enough and there is no way to prove that any changes in the climate are caused by mankind and instead normal cyclical happenings.
     
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  32. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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  33. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    not my girl.
     
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    1. Old Geezer
      Girl got the ugly stick whipping, so she decided to become some latter-day Joan of Arc. Doesn't work for me either. In every age, people wonder about the parents of mutants.
       
      Old Geezer, Nov 5, 2019
  34. watcherchris

    watcherchris Master Survivalist
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    Lonewolf,


    I have nothing particularly against Jews...nothing for them as well...same with any other groups.

    But with me ....what happened with the Jews and peoples tendency to over use them as the example of histories badness..is textbook of todays public education.


    How many did the Soviets kill....in Russia as well as the Ukraine before WW2...the Ukraine by starvation.???

    The Ukranian.. Holodomor. You hardly hear a word from our "Intelligentsia" about this!! Our enlightened thinkers.....censoring our education.

    How many did the Communist Chinese kill....when they took over China...right up to today.??


    My point is that this makes what happened to the Jews pale by comparison....and most people have not a clue this happened.

    The Jews and Hitler...what really happened ...has been long since eclipsed by others and to the everlasting ignorance of most people today with primarily a television and or movie education....and this is not an accident...it is deliberately done...to keep people ignorant of the truth of what has happened out here.


    I am not defeneding the Germans and what happened under the Nazis...but I am at the same time clearing up that the Communists have killed far more of their own people and our intelligentisia...protects Communsim/socialism and the truth of what has happened...before and since WW2.

    Far more have been killed under the Communists than have been killed the Jews.

    I don't give the Jews anything special in this because I know the truth of what our lying deceitful news, leadership, and public education ever want us to know....ever want us to think...

    The Jews ...like so many things in our life ...are a default used to herd us...and our thinking. I don't buy into it.


    And buckle up...this is coming again to this world under climate change.....massive die offs.....starvation...

    Inability to grow and ship/transship food...as well as other consumer goods.


    Oh..and Greta...can get across the ocean in a sailing ship....carbon free as did our ancestors. No one should have to tell this to her. She is a goddess/superstar.

    Hmmmm….wonder if this means...sailing ships will make a comeback...to ship and transship goods and services world wide.....and legislated so by the UN and such "Herders??"

    Wondering how many shipyards still know how to make sailing ships??? Even metal ones?? To comply with Climate change carbon requirements??


    Watcherchris
    Not an Ishmaelite.
     
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  35. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Lonewolf,

    Anticipating that the UK will be submerged in about 80 years, ...

    With the strategic thinking and planning of HM Colonial Office and the newly-named overseas territories office, we can all move to Queen Elizabeth Land, British Antarctic Territory. The 2 tall mountains there are well above sea level for when the warming goes full blast.

    Bring some lounge chairs. I have a large picnic basket.

    ......

    Ref Greta Thunberg; I've worked in countries where those on tourist visas were prohibited from participating in politics. Apparently in the US this is not the case. Don't know what kind of a visa she was on when she rambled at the Debating Society in NYC, a/k/a/ UN.
     
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  36. watcherchris

    watcherchris Master Survivalist
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    About 7 to 8 billion people dying off in any method necessary is a good trade off ...perfectly justifiable to prevent carbon....running amok over this planet....to prevent a carbon footprint running amok...over the earth.
    To protect the earth....as she is holy!!! And the earth is in trouble...,

    It's reasonable....justifiable.....logical...

    This is what logical, reasonable, intelligent. enlightened people do......particularly when it can be kept out of the news and or public education and instead...the Kardashians promoted to prevent thinking...

    Ishmaelites run wild...


    My non Ishmaelite .02,
    Watcherchris
     
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  37. Duncan

    Duncan Expert Member
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    Well, here's a link to a recent article in the Guardian which shows the result of a survey on climate deniers by nationality. The United States has the highest percentage of deniers (13%) after Indonesia (18%) and Saudi Arabia (15%). Other countries are less than 10% deniers, with the UK the lowest, at less than 5% deniers.

    But you asked why, not how many. Here's a theory:

    But wider denial of climate science is down to a concerted campaign of misinformation by fossil fuel interests and aspects of American character, according to Margaret Klein Salamon, a clinical psychologist who founded the advocacy group Climate Mobilization.

    “The Koch brothers and the fossil fuel industry have put billions of dollars into lying to the American public, even sending literature to science teachers in schools,” Salamon said. “They are so well organised and have managed to turn climate change into a controversial subject that gets shut down. It’s clearly working.

    “There is also the issue of American individualism, remnants of manifest destiny, that don’t set us up well for understanding that we are part of the web of life. The American dream is quite self-involved. We need a new American dream.”

    My oldest kid, a high school math teacher in Arizona, has confirmed the business about lobbying groups tied to the oil companies sending out advocacy lit to STEM teachers. He says its very well-produced and slick, but didn't go into any detail about its accuracy.

    Salamon mentions "the issue of American individualism" and self-involvement as a potential reason for denying climate change. I don't know whether it's true or not, but one thing that I wonder about is that Americans tend to be less religious than some other countries, but interestingly (because of a majority of Americans' ethnic background) much more religious than Scandinavian, Germanic and British peoples. There is a correlation there, but I don't know whether there's a cause-and-effect relationship there or not.
     
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  38. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    I find it strange that those who believe the climate change is man made, always refer to "Climate Change" deniers instead of "Man Made Climate Change" Deniers. Sounds better when making a misleading statement. Since the dawn of this planet, it's climate has been changing and will continue to change. Anybody and everybody with an I.Q. above 10 understands that and agrees. The issue is NOT CLIMATE CHANGE but who profits from claiming it is man is that is causing the change. The next issue is what can be done if man is really is causing the change? THE ANSWER ---- The governments profits from the Climate Change regulation and there is absolutely nothing man is willing to do to change any effect they may have on the climate. Bottom line, you have a great many scientist, claiming opposing scientific view points. So if scientist "A" and scientist "B" claim opposing theory, then is is not SCIENTIFIC FACT but just paid conjecture. So those that have swallowed the Man Caused Climate change theory "Scientist A" will never be able to see the view point of "Scientist B". Why keep beating the same old tired dead horse topic?
     
  39. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    I am a scientist (wildlife biologist) and I have also been a Park Ranger as well as a soldier and a number of other things, to get the bills paid. The one thing I learned over the years, reports get written to "favor" the view of your employer, if you want to stay employed. I am a firm believer in climate change, but not in human caused climate change.

    My reasoning is that as humans, we tend to have observer bias and make judgements on time related issues on our time ruler, the human lifespan. This planet were riding around space on does nothing major in a human lifespan. Especially things as important as change. Most have come to realize geological time is a more accurate scale of measurement for the planet. Continental plate movement takes centuries to measure. Glacial melt takes at least decades and on a large scale probably centuries (if the last ice age is any indication).

    Why should we expect the weather to be so different? Because we advanced to a point that we started keeping records? How have the places where those records are taken, changed since we started. Small towns 100 years ago are now cities, with everything cities bring with them. Concrete, asphalt, glass, mirrors and far less plant life. Commonly referred to as heat sinks. Could that influence our recordings?

    10,000 years ago scientist say the last great ice age came to an end. Geologically, the planet is warming up. It's supposed to, since our position in rotation around the sun has changed, no different than how our planet is shifting (indicated by our magnetic poles shifting). With the planet changing slowly and the only climate change being actually recorded being small, why are humans responsible? Comparisons of known large volcanic events and the corresponding CO2 in Antarctic ice show the expected accompanying climate change. How does the ice CO2 correspond with human events, such as the industrial revolution, WW1, WW2 the space race?

    From my perspective, the claim of human caused climate change and the doom and gloomers, demanding change that they can "save us" from our destructive human habits. Is nothing more than any other politician or scammer wanting my money, for my own good. It's all Bull Sh1t!. It's all rain makers making rain, with monsoon season starting up. Smoke and mirrors, just smoke and mirrors.

    I do believe we need to do better with pollution control and population control. Just my opinion.

    Dale
     
  40. watcherchris

    watcherchris Master Survivalist
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    Here is the thing about climate change/gas lighting.

    There is a silent implication going on here and in the process of being made into law..by ignorance of what is going on in front of us by fear mongering and manufacturing/blame gaming/guilt shaming..


    And this silent implication is that some higher law/ethic/morality or emergency is being trespassed or broken here by denying climate change.

    This is a legal fiction or fiction of law. See Blacks law dictionary.

    https://thelawdictionary.org/fiction/


    Someone is trying to use a legal fiction or fiction of law to herd us or imply that some higher moral or ethical trespass has taken place.

    To manufacture a bad guy if you do not cede or join the herd.

    This is the standard modus operandi of the left and progressives...in fear mongering and blame game..guilt shaming today.

    Remember Joseph Gobbels..and his implication…."If you repeat a lie often enough ...people will begin to believe it."

    Joseph Goebbels was the Nazi Minister of propaganda.

    Here is the basic quote..attributed to Joseph 'Goebbels..


    Be Warned....of this method of operation/herding

    Be warned of Ishmaelites trying to herd you and your family...your nation.,

    This is internationalism trying to overtake the law of individual nations and people...to herd them all....under one umbrella...under one emergency which is a fiction...legal fiction.

    Most people have never heard of a legal fiction or fiction of law.


    Be very very careful because someone is going to try to codify this into international law..to where they get away with what the UN did in Salt Lake City last summer in declaring their meeting site as international territory and reporters could not film at the Ice palace...even though the City of Salt Lake financed part of the meeting at that location...with tax dollars.
    The Constitutional protections did not apply there on US soil..international law did.

    Someone wants believes and allows international law to supersede your national laws...your national sovereignty and rights under the Constitution of the United States.

    Here from a post I made earlier today...

    https://mysurvivalforum.com/threads...-over-american-law-be-warned.7696/#post-61139

    This is where someone wants to take the Climate Change fiction ..to supersede National Sovereignty....overtake a nations laws...and by this the peoples freedoms and liberties.


    My non Ishmaelite .02,
    Watcherchris
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
  41. watcherchris

    watcherchris Master Survivalist
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    See my latest thread....

    Here It Is ...ishmaelites Run Wild...climate Change About Population Control...herding..


    This is what is coming behind Climate change …..herding unto death...playing God......control of all governments and or people unto their demise while paying for it.

    It is a good thing to me that Trump pulled out of the Paris Accords...about time...

    Ishmaelites run wild..


    Watcherchris
    Not an Ishmaelite.
     
  42. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good afternoon Duncan,

    Is it advantageous to assist clinical psychologist Margaret Klein Salamon and her org to rapidly disestablish the the oil companies ? Coal is already in the phase-out state. The oil companies, besides selling the overpriced fuel, also substantially support the US pension plans. It's not Ben and Jerry's ice cream common stock doing this and Penn Central Railroad was gutted of its wealth and thrown to the public long ago.

    Surely there will be a change from oil to other power sources - but it will probably be gradually. Those owning oil reserves will take strong measures to protect their wealth. This includes the USG. We're already a debtor nation. First Lady Hillary clearly explained this after an international meeting she attended with a Great Power. Hillary was caught on tape saying: "It's hard to threaten your creditor".

    Of course fossil fuel companies lie to the American public. So, too, does the aircraft industry. Remember the SST ? Pharma: note the never-ending search for a cancer cure by pharma. Life insurance ? Health insurance ? Any car companies displaying a "mark of excellence" ?

    Salamon's "American Individualism" - believe term coined by Charles A. Beard - got a little help from the US Army when settling "the West". This little help was minimized a bit when the rugged individualists reached the Pacific. The USN gave some help to them.

    There were only a few rugged individualists. Most were not.
     
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  43. Duncan

    Duncan Expert Member
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    I certainly would not want to do so. Salamon and her followers are a bit too shrill and doctrinaire even for a communist liberal like me! Even with our old friend, Mr. Invisible Hand, I think the oil companies will not go away, although they'd probably be in a lot better long-term shape had they done what many of them started to do in the 1980's: jumped on the renewables bandwagon and made the transition from oil companies to energy companies. Certainly they're doing it now; hopefully it's not too little, too late for them.

    It's interesting you bring up Penn Central. Imagine what it would be like today if the railroad giants in the early 1900's had seen the future and acted on it: We could be driving Penn Central tractor trailers or flying Atchison, Topeka, and Santa Fe Airlines!

    True, alas. She might have been just a bit too sleazy for my vote, but she was no fool. Neither, sadly, is Mrs. Xi's little boy Jinping.

    The aircraft industry? My career employer of 25 years? Sir, I am shocked! Shocked!! (Honest, we were going to tell everyone about the 737 Max issues. Honest!)

    And so did the railroads, interestingly enough.

    At least she didn't call us "imperialists". If she had, then, by gum, it'd be "Fifty-Four Forty or Fight"!

    Bottom line: Rascals and Scoundrels, all of them. A murrain take them all!
     
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  44. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Master Survivalist
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    When the rest of the world catches up to us in regard to pollution reduction, come back and try again. Look at India and China for example.
     
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  45. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    I can remember shaking my head in disbelief as George Bush repeatedly mentioned Al Qaeda when talking about the invasion of Iraq. Over and over as if it was true. The two were not related in any way. Cheney did it as well.
     
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    1. Dalewick
      LOL! No different than Reagans war on drugs or Clintons FUBAR in Mogadishu. Politicians, they fertilize from both ends.
       
      Dalewick, Nov 5, 2019
  46. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Anyone that doesn’t believe in Climate change is woefully ignorant. If you read history and then dig deeper you will find that climate change is behind a lot of the major moves in the history of the rise and fall of civilizations. If there had not been a bit of a climate change in Eastern Europe in 1230 to 12 40 the Huns would have crushed Europe and history would be totally different. If climate change had not caused the collapse of most of the various North and South American Native civilizations it could have been them coming to and conquering Europe instead of the other way around.

    Climate change is an ongoing fact that people in all times and places have either adapted to that change or been crushed by it. The current run in circles and hide idea that the way to deal with climate change is by blaming it on civilization and trying to go backward technologically is insane.Study the cause and THEN if it is a problem FIX it.

    The idea that hiding from it and shutting down the power plants will work but the cost will be the fact that without an advancing technological base 3 or 4 BILLION people are going to have to die. We can not feed people without fuel and power. Even our fertilizers are MADE and not natural. If people are serious about saving the planet they need to first off get sterilized before they have kids and then maybe shortening their life so they don't continue to be part of the problem.

    If people allow idiots to destroy our civilization, the good news is that they will be the first to die. People that can’t deal with reality with REAL responses to real problems just won’t make much of an impact on the surviving population.

    The problem is that POP science just gives you a few buzz words and a few catchphrases without offering any true understanding. Lonewolf, IF the world warmed up 5 degrees it would still take CENTURIES before enough ice melted to AGAIN put Great Brittan underwater. Glaciers in places where it is warming up won’t add much to the water levels of the world.

    Most of the quoted indicators of rising water are more about the subsidence of the land than the rising of the water. The islands that are going under are sand atolls and not rock based islands. I was raised on the Gulf Coast. The Beaches move. Over time it may seem that the water is rising because the roads keep having to be moved back. The fact is that the water is the same but the sand is eroding and sinking. New Orleans is SINKING the ocean isn’t rising.

    Strangely enough, the ice in Antarctica is growing rather than shrinking. The ice in the Arctic doesn’t count because it is floating ice where the ice in Antarctica is over land and is MILES thick.

    I was raised in one of the most polluted places in the world. The air was polluted by refineries and chemical plants that vented toxic fumes at night. They buried their mistakes in the ground or dumped it into the rivers and streams. The cancer rate was many times that of the norm in the US. Both my parents had cancer. Everyone there lives with almost constant upper respiratory problems. I KNOW what real pollution is like. Over the years things have been cleaned up and more and more of the waste products of the refineries have been recycled or disposed of safely by making them less and less toxic.

    If we had shut down the refineries and stopped them it would have solved the problem… of course, gasoline would cost 25 dollars a gallon now and much of the civilized world would be ruled by Russia and China but the Air might be cleaner.

    The ANSWER to pollution is learning how to clean it up and not produce it. You can’t do this if you hide from it and spend billions trying to stop it by moving backward.

    https://www.sciencealert.com/scient...-stopped-mongol-hordes-from-conquering-europe
     
    1. Dalewick
      I was a little kid but I can still remember the Scioto river in OH, burning. Smog so thick it burned the lungs. I was always happy when we came to the grandparents houses in WV. At least the coal mines didn't make the air bad. Wasn't it in the 70's when the big push to clean up pollution in the USA started? I remember the commercial with the crying native American.
       
      Dalewick, Nov 5, 2019
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  47. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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  48. Dunmaghlas

    Dunmaghlas Expert Member
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    Yes climate is real but it's normal. We really don't even know because we've only been monitoring the earth's climate for about 50 years, so everyone just needs to chill and wait another couple centuries and really find out. Doesn't affect me anyway, I'll be dead before any permanent damage happens if ANY happens.
     
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  49. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Duncan,

    Well received.

    Are not the oil companies "merely" the latest version (actually IT cos now getting on top of pile) on our historical record ? They've replaced the industrial companies like International Harvester, Cat Tractor, the older canal companies, the prior plantations growing tobacco, sugar cane, cotton, the older business markets like the original New York Stock MArket, selling and bartering everything from land patents, rum, slaves, .....

    The actual timeline coupled to our national perception and the oil companies did start the transaction in the 1980s. I remember when the oil depletion allowance - originally 87 and a half % - got on the floor. I was with political dept of an oil co. The howls could be heard from Capital Hill to Signal Oil Co, California. (The grain trade smirked and kept quiet.) The oil embargoes did establish that our "Eastern Establishment" diplomatic corps needed modernization. The US transferred $7 trillion ("T" - as in Tango) to the Arab oil barons.

    Ref Penn Central para; In recent decades, Greyhound Bus Co. owned more civil passenger aircraft than many airlines. Greyhound leased their acft to the carriers.

    The 737 Max "scandal" ?! Yes, call Superintendent Police Inspector Renault (Claude Rains): "I'm shocked, shocked !" There's a reason our institutes of lower education do not mention Fitzgerald and the C5A scandal. Remember the failed space shot early 1980s with the crash traced to the "O" rings freezing up ? The engineers were avoided because space shots are high-priority events.

    Not too much is new under the sun.

    NB: I am a libertarian, registered Republican and avid supporter of Trump !
     
  50. Duncan

    Duncan Expert Member
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    Two out of three ain't bad, brother: I am a libertarian (State Vice-Chair of AZ LP; Maricopa County (AZ) LP Secretary in the 1980's); registered Republican (voted Democrat twice in my life); and despise Trump!
     
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