Will You Know Your Place?

Discussion in 'Ladies Section' started by Kanagirl, May 23, 2017.

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  1. Kanagirl

    Kanagirl New Member
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    When the time comes what role are you prepared to play? My husband fully expects me to be prepared to cook and clean, and take care of children. I'm not comfortable with that role. I may not be able to lift as much weight or reach as high as he can, but otherwise I can do anything he can do. He teaches me as many survival skills as I ask him to. But I know he doesn't take it seriously. So I'm left with two options: take on the role he thinks I should, or assert myself into the role I feel more comfortable in. There's a need for both roles. And I'll do whatever I need to do. But I'm always preparing for both... just in case.
     
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  2. kgord

    kgord Active Member
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    It sounds like you and your husband need to have a talk. I mean certainly women have evolved past cooking and cleaning. I would tell him it is little demeaning that he expects you to play such a subeserviant role when you are capable of so much more. I mean some women are happy doing just that, but if you want more I think you need to let him know.
     
  3. working3

    working3 New Member
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    I have a boyfriend and 4 kids. I wish he would tell me to cook something or clean while i'm freaking out and trying to survive with these children. We will always be in this together. We will take turns doing things and we'll get through together. I am nobody's maid or personal chef. Everyone who has a brain can do for themselves and contribute equally. My kids will be involved in the process, as they are learning crucial survival skills. We all will survive and 100% have each others back, equally.
     
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  4. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    I sense a power struggle here!
    What will be needed in a crisis is cooperation and dependability not any perceived inequality!
    If one is doing the risky defence bit the other should be doing the other essential stuff like cooking and cleaning etc!

    I know that I would rather be cooking and cleaning etc than be out there risking my life defending!
    but alas I am a far better killer than cook so I work to my strengths! not my weakness's!

    Bugger the equality bit as that is a sure fired way to get all killed!
    The defender is the boss until seriously wounded or killed
    Obey the boss without question as to not do so will get people killed!

    The boss is the main defender and he/she should be obeyed without question!
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2017
  5. Mr Boots

    Mr Boots Expert Member
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    I can kill with my cooking......
    but it important that everyone can do all jobs and does
    when it comes to defense everyone fights or everyone dies
    every must know first aid as we all can get sick or injured
    If you cant cook what happens if u end on ur own for any reason ..... starve or die of food poisoning
    It you cant clean or don't you'll spread diseases in the group
    it is everyones responsibility to make the group work and work with the group
    some may be not good at certain jobs but we could all end up on our own and have to do ALL the jobs anyway why not do them when in a group
    TEOTWAWKI will be hard times with struggles that will make or break us no point making it harder on other because you only want to do what you want or consider certain jobs below you and expect other to pick up the slack
     
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  6. Kanagirl

    Kanagirl New Member
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    I'll do whatever I need to do. But, I don't want to be dismissed when I can be doing other things to help, as well. I will never win an Olympic medal in sharp shooting, but I can hit what I'm aiming at from a pretty good distance. And I have the ability to improve. So if there's no food to cook, I should be handed a rifle without question, so I can try to help catch dinner. And if my skill far surpasses someone else's I shouldn't be left to hold the fort down just because I'm of the "gentler sex".
     
  7. CivilDefense

    CivilDefense Expert Member
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    If you wouldn't mind, could you "unpack", this position. I'm curious for a variety of reasons. If I was so bold, I would conjecture others might be so too.
     
  8. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    we each should do what we can, what we are able, in an emergency its all hands to the pump.
     
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  9. Chiari

    Chiari New Member
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    The fact of you having the XX pair of chromosomes and your husband having the XY doesn't determine anything, It doesn't mean that women are obliged to clean and look after the kids. Luckily stereotypes are dying with the evolution of societies and human beings. In the 50's a scientist or engineer girl was considered very unusual, an exception. Women had to be housewives. In my college class, in 2010, there were more women than men, we were the rule and not the exception.
    Maybe you're good at fixing/repairing things, figuring out plans and as a leader, don't you think so?
     
  10. Emma

    Emma Expert Member
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    My boyfriend and I don't have any kids yet but we have had discussions on how we are going to raise them. My boyfriend has more practical / survival skills, where I would be more literate and cooking skills. We would both be sharing responsibilities. My partner has more knowledge of hunting / preping skills and I am learning also. So when SHTF we will be both able to look after ourselves if we get split up or if one or both of us has the kids.

    In my opinion I would not be expected to stay home with kids as we each need to be ot defending ourselves, gathering supplies, etc. So when the time comes we will be prepared .
     
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  11. Brizo

    Brizo New Member
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    My place is a partnership with my husband. There are no set chores and we all pitch in when needed. We are both very strong and dedicated people but nobody is superior over the other. It is also a huge reason we have been together for 17+ years and still are very happy. Both of us take care of the children, work and participate in house/farm/land chores.
     
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  12. Bishop

    Bishop Master Survivalist
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    I just do it all
     
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  13. SouthernMama

    SouthernMama Active Member
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    Well I am a single mother, so I will have to do it all!
    I think a person's place will be where they are most useful. Men and women will have to do their part no matter what it will be. If the woman is a better shot, then they should provide protection. If the man is the better cook, then he better get that pot over the fire.
     
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  14. MountainCutie

    MountainCutie New Member
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    I am in SouthernMamma's position, I am a single mom of two. While the plan is for my family to meet up- my kids, me, my mom, dad, brother- it might not happen. I will likely also be doing it all. So I feel for you girl, it is hard.

    Honestly while I would love to have a partner, with a daughter to care for I tend to back away quickly from any possible relationships. Working in a hospital as I use to, I dealt with over a thousand rape case, most of which were young girls raped by their stepdad. It makes me more than a little gun shy. So I guess doing it all is what I'm left with until I am able to get over that fear.

    That said in a SHTF world we will all likely have to do it all anyway. Versatility will be important.
     
  15. SouthernMama

    SouthernMama Active Member
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    I will be meeting up with family also and there will be men, women and children there if we all make it there. It will be scary to travel on my own, but as long as I am trained and prepared, we should be okay on our own for the trip.

    I totally understand your fear! That is one of the reasons that I remain single!
     
  16. MountainCutie

    MountainCutie New Member
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    I have been backpacking a lot lately and it has made me more confident. I'd highly recommend it. But yeah, traveling on your own is scary. Especially when I think about when I have to sleep. Then I am defenseless. That's what gets me the most.

    I have a dog but she's a coward and friendly with everyone so I don't think she'll be any help.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2017
  17. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    I am sorry but I am a "MAN" in this respect!
    My woman should be able to shoot/fight as best possible
    But she is the nations treasure not an expendable item! therefore her place is cowering with any kids present in some hidey hole! armed but a last resort!
    A surefire way to handicap a defender is to have loved ones in the line of fire!
    A man can not do his job of killing the enemy properly if he is not sure of his treasures safety!

    By insisting on being in on the fight a woman handicaps her mans ability to actually fight! so she may as well just shoot him herself as that is a more efficient way to reach the same goal!

    A man needs his woman to do as she is damn well told when she is damn well told, no arguments!
    Whats the point in fighting if the woman has just got herself killed? or worse still captured and taken hostage?

    I have trained nearly a hundred females in armed self defence but except for just one they failed the training test and got themselves killed or captured!

    No amount of training or testing really matters as their "EMOTIONS" override all training most every time!
    I no longer train females as it is just a plain waste of time!

    And I know many here will take exception with the above but that has been my experience!
    They just do not want to kill and will delay the deed so long that they fail!

    The reasons they failed were many but the most common were
    Holding a bad guy at gunpoint and letting them manouver her to failure too close to an exit! too close to the gunholder,
    manouver gunholder to have back to entrance and get taken down by bad guys partner!
    They would just delay the shooting bit because they did not really want to kill!
    "Only if they had to" was the underlying "EMOTION"

    Better they cower in the corner and let the men get on with the job with less distractions!
    They still need a plan "B" if the man fails though!
    A few choices there
    Shoot it out and all die! they defeated your man! so do you really think you will fare better
    Surrender and have a master! very few will kill helpless women and children they are much more valuable alive and well!
    Remember once one picks up a weapon and fights one wins or dies! as only helpless ones are kept alive!

    This is a question for the men here! Do you want to doom your females/youngsters to death if you loose the fight?
    Would you rather they lived under anothers rule or rot next to you as carrion feed ??

    There is a recent trend for females hitting men and being shocked when they hit back!
    Only Ladies who act like ladies will get treated like ladies!
    Fighters will get treated as fighters whatever gender or age they are!

    So girls by all means learn to shoot and train to fight but think carefully before you pick that gun up and enter the fight! the enemy will not miss because you are female!
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2017
  18. SouthernMama

    SouthernMama Active Member
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    Well Arkane I have to disagree with you on most of what you have just said.
    If all of the woman you trained failed, maybe you were the one failing them. A good self defense trainer, can train anyone to fight. A woman with training can fight just as well or better than some of the men I know. And one thing about your "training" their kids were not in danger. Put a woman in front of a man trying to hurt her children and I can guarantee that she will fight. A mama bear will protect her cubs at all costs! We all have emotions, men and women alike. They get in the way of men, the same as a woman.
     
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  19. Bishop

    Bishop Master Survivalist
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    I think the world is made of all kinds of people and if you can do the job or are willing to step up when others step down it don't matter what gender you are I have crossed trained with may different countries army's and a woman of Israel are top notch fighers.
     
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  20. BethSztruhar

    BethSztruhar Member
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    Well, I live with my Mother since 2014, when my Father died. We kinda know everything that a man "have to". We take care of everything, never ask for help. At first it was hard for me but I learned almost everything. We learned how to survive without a man's hand, and I can say that we are pretty good and I'm proud of my Mom, who's almost 60 years old, but a true survivor.
    When it comes to surviving, I think everyone will know what have to do, no matter what we think. In those kind of situations every plan falls apart and we just do what we got to do.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2017
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  21. SouthernMama

    SouthernMama Active Member
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    Agreed.
    Gender roles will not be the same when everyone is fighting to stay alive. We will rely on each other to do the job that we are most skilled at. If that means the woman protects the camp and the man takes care of the children, then so be it.
     
  22. LilSoldierGirl

    LilSoldierGirl Well-Known Member
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    Mr Arkane, as a female soldier with operational experience in a hostile environment ( much of it outside the wire) I need to refute your opinion. It has been my experience that female soldiers can make just as effective fighters as male soldiers. They may not possess the inherent physical strength, but unless they need to hump a wounded buddy out of danger that's mostly irrelevant. Many male soldiers struggle to carry a wounded buddy with all the armour and gear we carry.

    Whilst actual combat experience by females is rare in western armies, it is not unheard of and there are a number of documented cases of female soldiers performing very well under fire. Better than their male counterparts in fact.

    I'd be interested to hear about your training experience. I see you are located in Australia, and I know very well that outside of the military and police units this type of training is very rare. Perhaps you might enlighten us with your qualifications to conduct this type of training? Have you ever served in the military or police?
     
  23. LilSoldierGirl

    LilSoldierGirl Well-Known Member
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    Mr Arkane, google sgt leigh ann hester, silver star, US army, just one of the documented cases I referred to in my previous post.
     
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  24. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    Sorry but you just aint getting it!
    A person can be trained all day every day until they are expert in most everything combat related! but if they have not the right mindset ALL and I repeat
    ALL THAT TRAINING IS TO WASTE!
    You can not train for that mindset, there is no pill you can take to get that mindset, you have worked all your life on that mindset and it is called a mindset
    because it is your mind and it is well and truly SET!
    Most females and a small percentage of males just aint got it mentally no matter how much training they get!
    And but sorry Southernmama but your post shows you do not have it! Oh I am sure you think you have it but you do not!
    I have never met you and I only know you from your posts but it is clear that when it is the real thing you WILL hesitate and in most probability fail!

    Do not be sad or upset or feel a lesser person as it is a biological thing, it means you are in that respect a normal female!
    The same failings in an adult male though means the opposite he is a lesser male! Not a real man at the core!
    Males and females may be equal but they are not the same!:D VIVA LA DIFFERENCE!
     
  25. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    Went to visit a mate once and when I got there he was all crumpled up on the front garden with this huge amazon with
    a bloody baseball bat standing over him shouting obseneties!
    She made ready to go me and she was a fair margin bigger than me!
    I stood my ground as she got closer and calmly told her if she did not fuck off I was gunna rape her with that baseball bat!
    She saw no fear in my eyes but I saw the fear rise in hers and she defeated herself and fled!
    That was but one example of why females fail but it shows that fear is the killer!
    If that had been a man it would have been on like kong!

    FEAR is the difference and nearly all females have a large dose! and very few can suppress that fear to do what is needed soon enough!
     
  26. LilSoldierGirl

    LilSoldierGirl Well-Known Member
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    It is YOU who doesn't get it Mr Arkane. Mindset CAN be taught. This process, for Australian soldiers, starts at 1RTB. I know you dont understand what that means, because you have clearly never served and all your 'experience' and 'training' is just a deluded fantasy.

    1RTB is Kapooka, where soft civilians begin the conditioning that turns many of them, males AND females, into capable warriors. So capable that we are the military of choice to train both the Afghan and Iraqi army. It's where repetition becomes reaction, reaction becomes mindset. It's where you are conditioned to effectively react to threat despite feeling fear.

    Watching Kelly's Hero's repeadedly and creating a fantasy life on the internet does not make you a warrior Mr Arkane, it just makes you pathetic.
     
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  27. Bishop

    Bishop Master Survivalist
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    I was sent out to twenty nine Palms California for desert warfare school training was there two days and we had a sexual harassment class where a young Marine raised his hand and was called on he said I joined the Marines to be part of a band of Brothers and I did not want no little sisters at that point a WM LT asked him what his problem was he stated that WMs don't do male pft she asked that's your only problem he said yes so she challenge him to a male pft that's 20 pull ups or more 80 sit ups or better in 2 min and a 3 mile run in 23 min or better our Capt said he would be there she said pick the time Capt said 1300 the next day at 1300 she nocked out 26 dead hang pull ups 122 sit ups and ran a 21 and change 3 miles the male Marine did not get 20 pull ups did not get 80 sit ups and did not run the 3 miles in 23 min or better she beat his ass and she told him so and then told him why I am stationed here I run in the heat of the day with a gas mask on I am climatetized to the desert you just got here and that she was not only stronger she was smarter too
     
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  28. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    Yes it can be taught, never said I served! yes Kapooka turns out very good soldiers the best in the world in my opinion!
    Yes there are a few females that are good/great but they are few and far between! you may not have noticed but I mentioned "most" not all in previous posts!"

    After action reports of previous wars with females will bear me out!
    Although a few women have excelled at warfare putting many men to shame they are the exception rather than the rule!

    To believe otherwise is to delude oneself! that's ok now but come a real war and the stakes will be ones life!
    I know it is trendy to promote females into mens occupations but it can not alter biological facts!
    In the next great war feminism will get a massive proportion of young females killed!
    Which in itself is sheer "STUPIDITY" as young females of today should be birthing the citizens of tomorrow not going to war!

    I would change my opinion though if human reproduction was vastly different but it aint! females do the incubation birthing and early careing of our future citizens
    and so must be protected as they are our nations true treasure and not to be wasted on warfare!
     
  29. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    I'm a guy, I cook, do dishes, and I've never had a complaint about the food
    I make.
    I love to cook, don't like doing dishes, but I do them anyway.
    I don't feel less "manly" for cooking and doing dishes.
    One daughter who cooks for a living and she has one daughter.

    I'm 70 now and have 4 kids, the oldest is 51, youngest just 17.
    His mom was 26 years younger than me.
    Youngest boy, the 17 year old is not going to graduate with his high school class.
    He's bright and was accepted into an accelerated nursing program thus leaving
    high school for nursing.
    He'll start out making at least $50 K annually.

    We are both diabetic and he will specialize in diabetes care.
    I have severe liver damage from drinking, lost my gall bladder, surgically
    removed. She was the loveliest lady surgeon I ever met.
    She could have cut my anything out and I wouldn't h ave minded it. :>)
    Blond and beautiful she is.
    Many people that loose the gall bladder can't eat many foods they once did.
    I can and do eat anything without complications.
    An exception is ethanol alcohol. 3 rehabs don'cha'know.
    I'll likely die if I drink any amount again.
    One rehab hospital took blood and I had a blood alcohol content of .40%
    24 hours AFTER my last drink.
    I was one sick puppy.
    Addiction is a $itch!
    .40% is likely a coma and anything over that is dead.
    I didn't go into a coma....................lucky ????
     
  30. SouthernMama

    SouthernMama Active Member
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    Well I am choosing to ignore Arkane and the idiodic comments about woman not being able to protect her family with deadly force.
    The only thing I have to say about this is, yes I will know my place. My place will be up front holding a gun to guard my family. Emotions? Yes I have them. One of them is anger, and it will be anger I feel if anyone tries to harm my family.
     
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  31. Clara1993

    Clara1993 Active Member
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    well well... personally I would be both it means I would be a good wife for my husband which include cooking for him, wash dished, and all that he expects from me but most of all you need to be able to keep training as a survivor because you never know, may be one day or the other you might need those skills, may be for your children when your husband is not around or just for yourself.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2017
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  32. Anniee

    Anniee New Member
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    Hahah, sounds to me like an apocalypse is coming and thus everyone is getting ready for that. Well, in my part of the world, we cook, clean and take care of the household while the husband provides for the house, the mother and the children. If the woman feels she can contribute to supplying the house as well, she is free. Else her earnings goes to her pocket and personal spendings.
     
  33. PedroP

    PedroP Active Member
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    When the time comes I think we will hardly have a choice. Not wanting to be a pessimist here but already being one how can we tell who will be alive for sure? This is why we must learn a bit of everything, be the famous "Jack of all trades" because there is no telling what will be required of us on judgment day. Learn skills and learn to adapt would be our best bet. There is no telling even if there will be anyone with us, so te best we can do is prepare. One man (or woman :)) army if you will.
     
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  34. Scarlet

    Scarlet Member
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    It depends of what culture you had been brought up. In asian countries, the wife is a homemaker. She does household chores while taking care of her husband and kids. Her husband is the one who is working to provide the needs of the family. Nowadays, the commodities are high so some wife are working to support the family too while still doing her job as a wife to her husband and as the mother of her kids.
     
  35. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    what the sexes do or don't do before SHTF will be very different to what happens afterwards.
     
  36. GS AutoTech

    GS AutoTech Expert Member
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    Well said..
    We all have our strengths & weaknesses. When SHTF, your family or group will thrive when all members contribute. Each member can & should participate in all activities & responsibilities. If you have a skill, you should be training those who don't. & vise versa. Aside from that, in a tactical or defensive situation a solid leader must be in command & obeyed without question. Otherwise chaos will ensue.
     
  37. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Holy COW Arkane you really stepped off into it!! The thing is nearly everyone has made points that are true and have areas where they are not dealing with reality in an unbiased manner. First off let us establish a few facts. ON AVERAGE men are taller, faster and stronger than women. It is a mechanical thing. It has nothing to do with better or worse it is just a matter that males have broader shoulders and in general are more heavily muscled. Hand each one a gun and none of this makes a bit of difference.

    What does make a difference though is the mental part of violence. Once again, IN GENERAL, in the past we raised the males to be more aggressive and less emotionally free. In the past the females were discouraged from fighting or being aggressive. This was in general the way almost every culture was based. There were good reasons for this at the time.

    Without birth-control women spent a MAJOR part of their life carrying, bearing and careing for babies and children. There just wasn't much choice in this. A pregnant woman with a half dozen kids following her around just doesn't add up to “warrior”. Genetically women that refused to play the hand that nature had dealt them didn't pass their genes on to the next generation very successfully.

    Males on the other hand had to feed all of these mouths and protect them from predators of all sorts. This meant that men that were bigger and stronger and more successful hunters and protectors passed more children into the next generation. This is just the way it was for thousands of years and our bodies and to some extent the way our minds work reflect this.

    Now, there is the nature versus nurture question. In the past both nature and nurture in western and eastern cultures were pretty much pushing in the same direction. My parents and every generation before them lived in and were raised in this world. Our entire culture was built by people that knew of no other way.

    With the advent of the pill everything changed! Suddenly women had the opportunity to NOT spend most of their lives making babies. In ONE generation one of the most basic parts of humanity was cast out and nothing was there to replace it! Basically anarchy has reigned and is still alive and well in the Western world. The Eastern parts seem to be less affected so far.

    Unfortunately people don't change very fast or accept it well. You really can't expect for a culture that is tens of thousands of years old to be seamlessly replaced in 50 years. The problems are MANY not the least of which is the total destruction of the “mating rituals” that were just the way things were done. This meant more sex for everyone and unfortunately more people actually getting married to the wrong people and not knowing how to change that so they do it over and over.

    The fact is that now women are sort of like tween kids. They were raised hearing that they were equal in every way but then also we coddled more than the males. Boys are taught not to cry but it is fine for little girls to turn on the water works. When I was a kid I was whipped for crying without a darn good reason. I was expected to fight and running crying to an adult if you were picked on would usually end up poorly for you.

    Little girls played with Barbie. This was fine and not all little girls were fans but it was ok if they did. A little boy that liked to play with dolls caught a hard time from everyone. A girl that liked to do boy things was a Tomboy but a boy that liked to play with girl things was not treated well at all. All of this is a little better now but far from being not an issue.

    What this means is that when a boy IN GENERAL runs into violence or aggression he has been better prepared to deal with it than a girl. This is changing somewhat; at least in places in America but the change is moving more to a softening on the males than a toughening of the females. That is not to say that the ladies are not getting scrappier.

    Most of this is a cultural bias to a great extent. While the male has certain mechanical advantages on average that doesn't explain why my best friend who was 5'4”/1.6m and fairly light weight was at the same time a heck of a good fighter. That little dude would just come totally unglued on you and it would get UGLY in a hurry!!!

    The difference was in mind set. He feared looking weak a lot more than he feared pain. He had a little of that little man syndrome and so had to prove that even though he was little he was ALL man and not weak. I on the other hand am well over 6 feet/2 meters and BIG and so could be a lot more gentle and sweet natured LOL. Little girls just are not motivated to be tough like little boys were/are.

    I often hear people say that a woman shouldn't fight a rapest for fear that it might make him hurt them worse or kill them. You would never say that to a man. Most men would rather be dead than feel that kind of helpless. This sort of thing is taught to little boys all the time. Think about the “heros” in movies and such. Even today we are telling our little boys that if you go to war you need to come back either with your shield or on it. Death before dishonor was pounded into me as a kid. ANYTHING was better than being branded a coward. If I ran from a bully my Dad would whip me. You stood up for yourself and if you got beat that was just the way it went sometimes. A mans word was his bond...A woman ALWAYS has the right to change her mind. All this was cultural programed into little boys on every generation for thousands of tears.

    The women helped with this programming and in some ways played the biggest part. Men were told to be brave, tough, NOT a cry baby etc... But the women SHOWED us. The mindless jocks/athletes that often had the manners of a wart hog and treated the girls cavalierly at best would have the girls hanging all over them while the genius level poetry writing nerds couldn't get a date. If you were a little boy this told you real quick what was important.

    A little girl was strongly discouraged from fighting. This is still true. Let's be honest, a guy like me that has had his nose broken several times can still be considdered roughedly handsome. Even facial scars don't really hurt his ability to attract the other sex. Is the same true for the ladies...honestly???

    Let me tell you for a fact. All of this is changing. My daughter is BAD. She is a lady but she is a gun toting fighter that will hurt you bad if you mess with her. I didn't want to cripple her with all the crud that was in the past. I could see that times were changing and if she wanted to compete with men on an even basis she would need a different set of tools than my Mama had been given.

    Even with that said though the cultural programming is still there. In every TV show and movie it told females that the way to success was to find and attach to a strong man. Looks mattered more than brains or personality and being tough was just not the way to get a man. GAG ME!!

    In the end women have the basic ability to do most anything that a man of similar size can do. The thing that she has to overcome though is a difference in what she was taught subliminally for her entire life. Crying is not helpful in a fight or when you are afraid. Boys are taught not to cry by being chastized for it when they are little while little girls get hugs and loving. Is it really so had toi understand that later in life when they are shocked and attacked that their instincts are different.

    Ladies, things are changing but you can't change over night a cultural thing that has been going on so long that a lot of it is almost instinctual now. Women are as big a part of this programming as men and while a lot of women are saying differently they are not really acting differently. The nerds are still out of luck and the near neaderthal jocksare still gods on campus in every school yard. LOL. People are different the sexes are different...not more or less just different. Some of it is physical. Some of it is genetic. Moist of it is cultural. Even the crying thing varies from place to place for men.

    Everyone needs to give it time and also look at themselves and ask themselves “What am I really teaching my kids about the difference between boys and girls? Not what are you SAYING, what are you doing in your actions? I have a lady friend that is a fervent feminist but as I watch her with her two children I see her teaching the same old things to them that later she will call sexist.

    Changing is HARD and in a lot of cases you need to wait and see if in the end that change is far the better. Right now women are suffering from a lot of the things that they wanted. A loit of it is like with kids. They can't wait to grow up so that they can do whatever they want to do and don't have everyone bossing them around and making them do things like CHORES!! Then it happens...Work, bills, responsibilities and reality... Never as good as the dreams.

    The future reality for male and female roles is still up in the air. In the end I suspect that males will always be more aggressive and comfortable with aggression while females will always be more cerebral and emotionally free when it comes to most things. We were made to function best when working together. Working together doesn't always mean doing the same things.
     
  38. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I am an alpha but getting old. My best place in any group now will be as Merlin. I will have the answers to a lot of your questions and will be able to make things happen that most had never thought of. I am however past my best years to lead the charge or fight for the dominance of the pack.
     
  39. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    We share the workload in our household, it's not a battle of the sexes. We co-operate and are stronger for it.
     
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  40. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    My wife and I share things are home but we each have things that are basically ours because one or the other is better at it. My wife cooks more than I do but I clean up the kitchen more often than she does. I wash dry and hang up clothes but she does the folding clothes. I tend to most of the car repairs and she tends to most of the house cleaning. I used to do all the mowing and gardening but she does the painting and such around the house. We have been going steady for 45 years and married for 43. We are like a pair of matched mules in harness and pull together very well. LOL, Her 25 years working in prisons has pretty well made her unresponsive to intimidation and any time that I start to think that I'm the big boss she has no problem explaining my error to me. After spending the day dealing with mass murderers and such off Death Row I guess I just don't impress her with my bad self anymore. Between her and myself our Daughter doesn't let herself be intimidated either.

    So much of what people think is the difference between men and women is how they were raised and treated when they were little boys and little girls.
     
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  41. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    One of the most important things in survival after any disaster will be working and getting along with others in your group. Long term, going it alone just won't work for many people. Alone, sooner or later something will get you and without someone to help you will die.

    Getting along with other people is a SKILL that can be learned. Through understanding you can deal with people without allowing the frictions to blow you up and apart. I understand the frustration that women feel. I raised my Daughter to survive and thrive in this chaotic time of change.

    What women don't understand is that men are the way thay are because despite what they say, they are not attracted to sweet, kind, gentle men. Just like the males they were raised in the same culture and their feelings are molded down much the same path. Eventually you will have males that were not raised by parents that acted the way our parents did. When it comes to kids it isn't what you SAY that will make the big differences on them. It is what you DO and how you ACT.

    You can already see the changes and they are not all good ones. More and more kids these days are being raised by women without mates in the home and this is having a lot of effects on them some good and soon not so good. There is a loss of balance but it is hurrying the change that we will need to make if women are ever going to be treated as full equals to men. Women are getting stronger and becoming less likely to deal with things from a position of weakness.

    In my Mamas generation women were taught that by acting weak it would trigger the men's protective instincts and for them that was the way to success and safety. Women used to get the vapors and faint if they were stressed to far. They would cry and were prone to hysterics. These were actions that the culture and their Mothers taught them as the "proper" way for a woman to be safe and get what she wanted. Unfortunately while the men indeed were more protective in general they also viewed women as less and didn't respect them the same way they did men.

    Men were raised by their Mamas to act a certain way. What has happened is that our culture is changing faster than people change because people don't really change. They do eventually die though and the next generation can be a little different. Little boys born today won't have TV programs that are preaching that women are weak and need protection like I was raised watching. Watch a Doris Day movie or two and a few episodes of Gunsmoke and watch the interaction between the sexes! You won't hear men telling their wives that they can't work. When I was a kid men found it embarrassing for their wives to work to some extent because it meant that they were unable to support them properly.

    Ladies, patience will win the day for you in the long run. While women are not treated fairly in the work force they are also to often still trying to use the same old tricks that their Mothers taught them to handle men. You were raised in the same culture as the men and you too will have to change for it to work. Playing the poor weak damsel in distress works on men but it also reinforces their feelings that you are weaker and less than them while over inflating their already massive egos.

    You won't see a small skinny man asking other men to carry things for them or get things down for them. They will go get a dolly or ladder and do it themselves so they don't have to look weak. It is all a game and you can't change the men without changing yourselves too.

    If indeed the world is headed to another fall the women will either have to change and shoulder a more equal part of the work and danger or they will go back to their old ways and get the big strong manly men to protect and take care of them. AND THE CIRCLE STARTS AGAIN...
     
  42. Tumbleweed

    Tumbleweed Expert Member
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    I think that if there are children to be taken care of, then it is important for the wife/mother to be doing that, and letting her husband be in charge of defense. As was stated by Arkane, if a man is trying to defend his family then the last thing that needs to be on his mind and cluttering up his thinking is worrying whether his family is in a safe place. Even if there aren't any kids , this is probably still true.
    On the other hand, I don't agree with the husband not teaching his wife everything that he can about survival, and expecting her to only have to cook , keep house and raise the kids in a survival situation.
    None of us is immortal, and if the husband were killed, or even badly injured,then (like it or not) the survival of the rest of the family is going to depend on how much the husband has taught his wife and kids.
    As Arkane also mentioned, not all women are alike, and while some of us might do just fine being a defender, others would not, and then they would endanger their whole family by trying to do something that they were not suited for.
    Two people riding in a car can make an equal decision where they are going, and every other detail about the trip; but only one of them can actually sit behind the steering wheel.
    That does not make that person any better, it just means that they are doing their job. When I traveled with my husband, he usually drove, and I was the navigator. I could read maps and see where we needed to go and let him know when he needed to get ready to change roads, or go off the exit to stop for gas.
    His being an excellent driver might not have got us where we were going if he couldn't find his way there.
    In a survival situation, every job is an important one.
     
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  43. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    That mode of operation was based on a set of parameters that no longer exist. Unfortunately while it isn't applicable now in a gentle civilized world with modern medical and birth control there is every possibility that it will return if things as they are cease to exist.

    Women were protected in our past for tow big reasons. Firstly when a woman is pregnant or bread feeding and caring for kids if she dies so do her dependent children that are unable to eat yard food yet. A pregnant woman is extremely limited in her stamina and abilities to do heavy work and so requires and deserves w=extra help and attention.

    In a primitive survival based tribal group or clan the men are basically disposable. What matters is the survival of the group and children. A woman is the soul of the tribe because without her reproductive ability in a bad situation the population would just slowly decline and the tribe would die out. A dead man is the loss of one person for the tribe . A woman that is killed or taken means the tribe lost her and ALL of her potential progeny! The "Women and children first" was just the way it had to be if a tribe or clan wanted to survive.

    In the world that we live in right now there are PLENTY of people. Actually we are going to have to do something soon or the population is going to exceed the ability of our planet to support us. Women now have the choice about how many kids they want and when they want to have them. Not being pregnant and buried in the responsibility of taking care of an endless string of kids has freed them to have careers and interests that involve a world outside of the family.

    They have a right to equality and right now that means something a lot different than it did less than a hundred years ago. I don't know how people will adapt to a return of the old ways. We are different than our forefathers (forepersons???) and though we are not as different as the modern women would like we may be too different to go back to the old ways either.

    Those that adapt will rule and make the new rules and those that can't or are slow will slowly die out. Interesting times...
     
  44. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    I have never understood that sort of thinking or attitude in men, perhaps it is to do with the way people are brought up. My wife & I share responsibilities & work evenly, though there are some things that she is better at & I leave those things to her. Some things I am better at & so they generally fall to me, though on occasion I have to ask my wife to help me. That I think is what life is supposed to be like. My wife needs to be able to handle a wide range of things, I am older than she is & I won't always be around to take care of my end of things.
    I think your husband is making a big mistake thinking he can handle what he considers to be his job all on his own. Where does or would that leave you if he was suddenly not there?! What if he can't handle something, then what?
    Keith.
     
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  45. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Forced roles are all to often inefficient and don;t make anyone happy. Several times over the years my wife and I have had role reversals. Truthfully if we had it all to do over again I would send her to college before we had kids and then once the kids were born I would stay home and be Mr. Mom. I like kids and always have. I'm the only man I know that actually babysitted when I was younger for other people. I love babies!!

    When my Grandbaby was born, after the first 6 weeks the kids needed to both work to catch the bills back up. I took a year off and raised the baby for 13 hours a day. It was GREAT!! Even now my wife and I play a big part in their life and I usually pick my Grandbaby up from school and then keep her the rest of the day until every one else gets home.

    My wife has made a lot more money than me for many years now. I LIKE being a Kept man! I like being retired and finally having the time to pursue my many and varied interests. She encourages this and spoils me rotten! LOL. When SHE retired for a little while a few years ago she bought ME a 20,000 dollar boat as a retirement present. After a month she was bored and went back to work. I'm never bored!!

    Keith is right though your husband needs to help you learn to do as many of his "manly" things as possible so that if he is injured you two aren't just DONE. He will need your help in turning loose of his preconceived ideas. I tried to teach my daughter every thing that I would have a son. This covered mechanic work, hunting guns and fighting along with the many other things a kid needs to know. As it turned out she is a lot like my wife and much rather prefers working to being a housewife. She again like my wife is very good at what she does and has made a good life for herself and her family.

    Help your husband understand that you learning this is no threat to his manhood nor does you wanting to know this stuff in any way infer that you don't think he can do it or that you can do it better. You ARE a woman and women have been guarding men's fragile little egos for millennia. Do it right and he will think that is his idea and that he had to talk you into it. Women seem to almost be born with the ability to steer a man is the "best" direction if they will just work on it a little bit. Unfortunatly this skill is another one that Mama's used to teach their girls but don't have much time for it now but you were born with that ability so put it to use. Men and women are equal but never mistake that for meaning the SAME.
     
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  46. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    It's my experience from other cultures that women have a lot more steel in them and carry a lot more of the actual heavy lifting then in Western society. In Africa you will regularly see groups of 12 year old girls carrying 25litre cans of water through the dust and heat while laughing and smiling with her friends. I doubt many adult men on this site could manage the same task with the same uncomplaining grace.

    It has been proven that there is no such thing as a male brain or female brain. This whole debate comes down to an individual's ability or willingness to adapt.

    I will agree that it is almost always the young men who are called upon to fight but not exclusively.... There are Kurdish women fighting in Syria today who are effective battle hardened soldiers and they scare the shit out of Isis fighters. Before Isis attacked they were ordinary girls but they've adapted and met the challenge. There are combat qualified women trained to fight in the front line of the armed services of a great many countries. Women's role will need to expand in the post apocalyptic society, not be constrained to housework and babies.

    As a species we will have to adapt or die
     
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  47. GS AutoTech

    GS AutoTech Expert Member
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    "What role you play " in a survival situation, I feel, will be to accomplish whatever task at hand that needs done. If you, man or woman, are intimidated by another person because they want to paricipate, learn a skill, or may be better than you, YOU need a reality check & grow up. Survival is not a battle of the sexes. It survival. That means every job, task or skill becomes everyone's responsibility to do their best to learn & exercise. As in all situations, some tasks will be deferred to those with ability & desire to fulfill that task. That does not relieve you from the responsibility of learning that skill & performing the task when needed. IMHO
     
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  48. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    The role of women has changed considerably since colonial days. Women then were considered valuable for their all round skills, hardiness & willingness to pitch in, especially in 17th & 18th century America.
    Keith.
    The story of Mrs Pentry: http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com.au/search?q=mrs+Pentry
     
  49. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    The role of women has changed considerably since colonial days. Women then were considered valuable for their all round skills, hardiness & willingness to pitch in, especially in 17th & 18th century America.
    Keith.
    The story of Mrs Pentry: http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com.au/search?q=mrs+Pentry
     
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  50. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    The role of women has changed considerably since colonial days. Women then were considered valuable for their all round skills, hardiness & willingness to pitch in, especially in 17th & 18th century America.
    Keith.
    The story of Mrs Pentry: http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com.au/search?q=mrs+Pentry
     
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