You Got Rules Of Engagement......or Going To Make It Up On The Fly

Discussion in 'The Hangout' started by Sourdough, Oct 31, 2019.

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  1. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    So do you and "YOUR" team have clear rules for Engagement......???
    Not asking what they are.
    Are they Clear........"Crystal Clear".......???
     
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  2. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    Does everyone know them, and the ramifications of them.......???
     
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  3. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    And.......What exactly was the communication......"NO PRISIONERS" in the attack in the movie "Lawrence of Arabia" and to which team was he communicating, "NO PRISIONERS".....???
     
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  4. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
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  5. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    Just think how terrifying it was to "His" Teams that he was yelling that communication to the enemy.
     
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  6. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Master Survivalist
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    I do have ROE's for myself. Since I am currently on my own, we are all on the same page lol. The ROE's I follow will vary depending on the situation. Hurricane recovery will differ wildly from ACW2
     
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  7. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    Definitely have no intention of housing and feeding a prisoner . Giving a starving looter a chance to get the he-- gone maybe . Depends on the person standing in my sights if I will be generous and let them live another day or shoot them and drop them down what we call the bottomless hole . If I am really pi--ed and they manage to escape I have my trained bloodhound to trail them down so we can dispatch them . That dog can even trail someone that gets inside a vehicle and goes down the road . Someone back tracking on their own trail doesn't even fool or confuse him one bit . It is really quite amazing . I have been around hunting hounds all my life but have never seen a dog with the trailing ability of that bloodhound . I was taught in the military - after a firefight you go through the fallen and shoot the wounded enemy through the head .
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
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    1. Dalewick
      LOL! Just don't shoot them when you come back through them. Always loved that!

      Dale
       
      Dalewick, Oct 31, 2019
  8. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    During a SHTF scenario, the rule's of law apply. Since you will more than likely have to answer in court or at least to LEO's for your actions.
    If it is a TEOTWAWKI event and there is no more ROL, then our ROE are in full force. Everyone knows them and everyone agreed to them.
    Regardless of your ROE's, your group members that have never been under fire will need supervision as you won't know how they will react, until the shooting starts. If I'm lucky, the shooting will never start.

    Dale
     
  9. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Once TEOTWAWKI happens then the ROE is no prisoners. Age, gender or any modern day quantifiers will no longer apply. Trespass and die, really just that simple. No hand outs, nothing that would invite people to approach. Today's neighbors, may become tomorrows looters / raiders. Post signs --- Trespassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again.
     
  10. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    be0c2c00e7f9d5363d3865bee1d36cbc.jpeg These puppies are for sale to us also.
     
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  11. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    I like your post, however never post any sign or have any car decal/sticker that identifies you as anything but a solid citizen, Mr. Niceguy. If you want to do someone, pose as a crippled, mentally handicapped person. Most folk will be nice enough to let you into the building to get a soft drink.

    To the neighbors, you two are just the kindly neighbors. When it hits the fan, get out the scatter-guns and scatter their brains.

    ca5553e3f85d3c3aa09b08401a384cd5.jpeg

    upload_2019-10-31_21-24-3.png
     
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  12. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    75246662_1737015443100941_758373147232698368_n.jpg

    So,.....Old Geezer, We shouldn't do this? LOL! Dale
     
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  13. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    A few months with no electricity all law enforcement with no paychecks or anything to buy , will dissolve . There will be no law but what civilians say it is . On my property I expect to be the judge and executioner . But I will say this I wouldn't kill anyone without just cause .
     
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  14. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    The rules of engagement will change and evolve over time after things fall depending on what and how it was made to fall. To some extent, it is going to be at least partly a distance and extent of the parameter thing. My place is fenced. If things have gone totally down the tubes if you jump the fence you will die. I will have a bell on the post for people that want to act in a civilized manner but any uninvited intrusion will be met with a lethal response. If there are a lot of crazy thugs running around we may block the end of the road and make that a no go perimeter. Right now my door is the no go line. If a person comes in uninvited I will assume the worst and act accordingly.

    I don't have the need for the sort of rules of engagement that a group on the move will need. My rules will be first level pure defensive. Only if necessary will I go to a seek and destroy footing. If a group stays in my area and becomes a threat then that is what a scoped rifle is for. You go hunting them before they can come after you. I may make a suppressor for my 22lr. With no possible medical care available, a gutshot with a 22 is nearly as deadly as a 30 caliber to the chest or head. I could probably take three or four out before they figured out what was happening if my shots were silenced. Once they figured it out my number 2 will fire up with his M-14 and Number 3 will be popping off headshots with a scoped 308. Number 2 is a retired Seal and Number 3 was a Ranger. I'm actually the only one in the small group that has no military active duty experience. We have talked it several times and agree that maintaining the perimeter is our first order of operation. If we need to go out on a hunt there is a second level of people that will stay and take that duty.
     
    1. Dalewick
      My Savage Mark II 22LR is suppressed and with subsonic ammo, as a bolt action all you hear is the round striking down range. First time my brother saw me shoot it, his jaw dropped and eyes got wide. He's a Marine.
       
      Dalewick, Oct 31, 2019
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    2. TMT Tactical
      Now you know the reason for my selection of the Ruger Precision Rimfire. I already have the home-made suppressor material selected. 30 MOA scope rail and a fixed 20 power scope. Medium distance precise shooting --- I hope.
       
      TMT Tactical, Nov 1, 2019
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  15. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    And sometimes, I'm Down With the Sickness.

    Kind'a am. Really. I witness myself sometimes morphing into my dear old dad. Actually, he didn't live to be old. I now am. Saw him in a dream (decades after he died). I told him, "You're dead." His reply, "It's not that different." The man meant it. He'd a'not said it if he'd not meant it.

    I have been asked the following, "Could you actually take a person's life?!" My response, "Uh ... their body would be on the ground. Later maybe I would have a moment where I might wring my hands about it, but I doubt that would occur. I would mostly try not to get caught."

    Sounds cold, but it isn't. If someone is worth caring about, I'd readily be willing to care about them. I have been known to care about people. I am not evil. I am not stupid.

    Jesus was a caring kind of fellow, I've read. I've also read that He could kick ass. Actually, I believe it was the whole love-of-God fervor thingy that came over Him. I can relate. I've had none too few fervors get all over me also. I'm thinking maybe that I don't quite carry the Authority the Nazarene walked around with. Just sayin'.

    Mark 9:42
    And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

    Matthew chapter 10:
    34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; 36 and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’

    John chapter 2:
    12After this he went down to Capernaum, he, and his mother, and his brethren, and his disciples: and they continued there not many days. 13And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem, 14And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: 15And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables; 16And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise. 17And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up. 18Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
     
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  16. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    If you prep and love your family!

    670b50f480dd42cc00657e50b0d0efbe.jpg

    NEVER QUIT!
    Dale
     
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  17. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I see no need for rules of engagement where I am, a low population to start with will be much smaller post SHTF, isolation and remoteness will have its plus points.
     
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  18. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    police officers are not preppers, without some form of food stockpile how long can they survive, not much longer than the ordinary sheeple??
     
  19. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Poltiregist and Lone Wolf.

    Don't know how how paid during SHTF but there are in place Law Enforcement agencies and their LEOs to work Emergency Support Function 13: Public Safety and Security.

    It's about the same in the UK but don't know the specifics.

    The US most famous for SHTF is the USMC's Praetorian Guard based in Quantico, Virginia and assigned to protect POTUS and selected others.

    The USCG will be present and operating.

    I am guessing all the coastal states mirror Virginia in re the Virginia Marine Police have been deputized as Federal LEOs.

    Department of Homeland Security has several LE programs that get enhanced during SHTF. The Secret Service is one of the orgs.

    The medic folks - the chief honcho in charge of districts, areas or however arranged have law enforcement powers for medical quarantines. I do not know much about this but the law is still only about a decade old.

    The FBI has a program also - along with some of the other Justice Department orgs.

    Please be assured the US military will be participating in law enforcement. I am very familiar with the Posse Comattus Act and the numerous exceptions making it an obsolete act - as if it even matters.

    ...

    The riddle I am still working on is what areas will be deemed critical for max protection. I know the Navy Norfolk corridor - Hampton Road to Fort Meade, Maryland is a sacred as the Temple of Zeus. I know the LOOP, Port Fourchan, Louisiana to Houston Ship Channel and Port of Houston is sacred territory.

    ...

    The public will be getting notified by public service announcements, notices at stores and etc if/when matters elevated.

    ...

    Please understand violating a law has sanctions. If someone with eg Alzheimer's drifts onto your BOP land and you harm them, ... fill in the blanks.

    ...

    I recommend following the free advice given to the brass: Don't prepare for the last war.
     
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  20. Caribou

    Caribou Expert Member
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    Some police and some military or ex-military are preppers.

    Today the ROE's of are the self defence laws that apply in my State. If you threaten me or mine I will defend. In WROL the only change that I anticipate is that the free fire zone will extend to the outside of the home.

    I never considered taking prisoners. I don't own a cell. I can't afford to feed prisoner(s). Threats are dealt with, others are allowed to leave. If they don't leave they are a threat.
     
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  21. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I doubt many police or military will report for duty post SHTF if their not being paid, they will go AWOL and look after their families needs.
    we do not have enough Police or Military in the UK to control the whole of the UK, priority will be given to Government buildings, i.e. London and other big cities, nothing here for them to protect, this is a rural area.
     
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  22. Duncan

    Duncan Expert Member
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    If things get really sticky in the Land of the Extensive Potato Fields, law enforcement could devolve into that of pioneer Utah: the various Stakes and Wards already have the communication infrastructure, organization, and hierarchy in place, with most Church members already prepped with a year's supply of necessities and a very large majority of them armed. Priests of different callings will report to their Bishops and their respective Counselors, who in turn will report to their Stake Presidents and their respective Counselors, all the way up to General Authorities in Zion.

    "Come, come ye Saints, no toil nor labor fear ... All is well! All is well!"
     
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  23. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Duncan,

    The pioneer Utah derivatives have definitely been factored into the national structure for recovery. These groups are now called "faith based" organizations - although, nationally speaking, they are less faith-based than they are socially based. These orgs are really just treated, sotto voce, like the Jacobins and Cordelier political clubs circa the French Revolution era.

    Organizations like the LDS do not - currently - have a year's supply of necessities as we know the definitions of today. Food stores and household supplies: yes. Medical care such as childbirth, surgery, immunizations are not available at their level. Vet matters for animals are lacking for SHTF. Remember, dead livestock, like dead humans, must be buried. Everyone can't do this just like everyone can't clear a debris field.

    Besides the faith-based orgs, most all orgs cannot handle epidemics and definitely not pandemics.

    The big regional area is the Salt Lake City - Provo - Ogden metropolitan area. It is important and will be provided for.

    Defense Depot Ogden houses more than tent pegs.

    The nation must be prepared to recover from events such as the natural weather emergencies, the disasters and also the real scary: matters of international relations.

    I doubt ...... actually, I know ...... the public cannot successfully be evacuated from A to B. We're just not set up for this.

    We can expect a macro "shelter in place" enforced by deputized citizens.

    The Utah folks have historical familiarity with this.

    Meanwhile, I'm not smug and comfortable here. I'll be activated to do advanced-level emergency responses for the latter-day fascists running the swamp here.
     
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  24. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Master Survivalist
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    Awesome dog man. I hope ,gov doesn't have any of his brothers or sisters.
     
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  25. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    dogs beat humans any day, i'd rather have a dog with me than a person.
     
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  26. Duncan

    Duncan Expert Member
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    Greetings, Pragmatist, and thanks for your excellent response to my post.

    I agree completely with your reading of the situation re the pluses and minuses of 'faith-based' organizations when dealing with Hard Times. However, no longer being involved in any way with government operations (except as a cashier of Social Security checks and grumbling about taxes), I tend to look at disaster planning as a much smaller-scale exercise.

    I believe the smaller the group, the greater influence and responsibilities I would have. Family and farm first, then neighbors, then the folks I interact with in town are probably the only levels of people I'd be dealing with. If the situation is dire enough, I doubt if I could expect any help from any level of government outside of the local police and fire.

    With about sixty percent of the area being LDS, I would certainly make a point of cooperating with them in every way possible. I've taken advantage of the bulk foods and the cannery; they certainly don't care that I'm a pagan or anything. If the Bishop came by and asked for help in canning, food prep, watching out for bad guys or what-have-you, I'd be a fool to turn him down!

    Again, I can't see any government agency higher than the County or maybe the State getting involved in the welfare of a bunch of rural people, especially a small-scale gardener and goat-keeper like me! If the sheriff decides to deputize a bunch of people to run patrols and round up looters, more power to them; I'd probably know several of them anyway. Otherwise, I'll keep my head down, help whom I can, hope my medical chest and Dawn's skills are intact, and maybe trade a little of this for a little of that.
     
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  27. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Duncan,

    Well received.
     
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  28. randyt

    randyt Master Survivalist
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    Exploit a weakness LOL

     
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  29. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    There are a lot of subgroups around that while they are mostly social organizations on the surface these days will become gathering places for like-minded men and women. Some of these will be pretty good groups and some will be BAD. I was raised in Klan Country. Over the last 30 or so years, the Klan has gotten a lot quieter and less noticeable but they are still very much there and will gather in the event of an apocalypse. In the area that I live now, I suspect that the churches will be a gathering. Small country churches are not like the big urban churches. The people that go there are different too in that most are more rough-edged and self-sufficient.

    Fraternal organizations in the past were a sort of insurance policy in that they agreed to a certain level of protection, support and a promise to take care of a man's family if they died. The things that they offered are not so important now but will be in a world that is more like one of our many times Great Grandfathers.

    The one thing that the police will have that most people don't is they are already a group of people that are trained and prepared to deal with violence. In the US they are pretty well armed and already have an us versus them mentality. Another group with this sort of preexisting organization is the various veteran organizations. In the small country cities, the VFW hall is a big gathering place already and the American Legion.

    A plan and rules of engagement are important Lonewolf. I don't care how isolated you think that you are at some point someone is going to find you and if you don't have a plan on how to deal with this then you will be in trouble. Making decisions about WHAT TO DO after someone attacks you will get you killed. A BAD decision can lead to regrets.

    Rules of engagement can't be set in stone but are instead a road map of possible responses to various situations. You get to think about things while you are not stressed and under attack and so will probably make better decisions. What are you going to do if you take prisoners? What if they try to surrender? If they run do you let them go or track them down and finish it? What do you do if you catch a hungry kid trying to steal some food? If you let them go they may go back to their group and then bring a bunch to take your food or place. Most people these days don't have much experience with making life or death decisions. Think and make or at least form up some parameters for your responses to various scenarios.

    Another reason that a plan of action is important is that when you make plans now you can gather the supplies that you will need to carry those plans out. after the fall finding some of those things are going to be hard. I have made no secret of the fact that I will place "mines" in my yards in places that an attacker would try to shelter from my fire. Possession of bombs is massively illegal for good reasons but the possession of the materials that you could use to make these things is legal and a lot of them are common because they have other uses. If you don't have those materials on the day of the fall then you probably won't ever have them.

    Rules of engagement are a part of a plan of action. It is what you will do while the plan of action covers the things that you will need to carry out your plans. wars are won by Logistics more often than tactics. The tactics are a plan but the logistics is how you plan to get it done.
     
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  30. Caribou

    Caribou Expert Member
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    Once they are off my property they are free to go. Following them off my place is impractical due to my physical limitations. Also I would loose moral, legal, and home field advantages. Surrender is not an option, either mine or theirs. Cutting them loose will be on a case by case basis. A neighbour coming over to talk is one thing. A stranger possibly scoping the place out is another.

    I will try to find a soup kitchen close to me. Anyone asking for food will be directed there and told that is where I get my food from. This is designed to make them think that I don't have any extra food. If I feel that I want to provide charity it will be made to the food kitchen and never to a beggar at my front door. Lies and misdirection before firepower.
     
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  31. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I'm afraid that if you limit yourself to only legal responses after the collapse of our culture that you will find it almost impossible to survive. I assure you that at first the thugs, gangs and general lowlifes are not going to worry about legalities any more than they do now. I well understand about the limitations of age that you mentioned. The thing is that say you have a problem with foxes killing your chickens you will need to do more than just shoot the ones that you catch on your property. If you don't activly persue their extermination they will eventually kill all of your chickens. If someone attacks me and I manage to hold them off I am not going to assume that they have gotten religion and will never bother me again. I would much rather go hunting and make sure that at the very least that they are leaving the area than wait for them to come back and shoot me or a loved one in the back.
     
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    1. TMT Tactical
      Once shots are fired, then everybody on one side will end up dead. I will pursue and eliminate any possibilities of a return engagement. Retreating forces tend to relax and lick their wounds, once they camp for the night. Stay within striking distance during the day. Once night falls and they turn if, then reduce their numbers.
       
      TMT Tactical, Nov 4, 2019
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