Your Home Bugged

The problem with technology is that as it advances it becomes more and more dependent on a thousand other technologies to keep it up and running. A map on paper doesn't offer the same level of detail possible from an online map site, BUT, it workes day or night without being dependent on any outside force. Even if you download maps to your device it is still only good for as long as the batteries last and are charged.

Old school things were mostly selfcontained and you did not need any outside resources for them to function. To me the best survival preperations are a layered set of preperations. I do have and love my electron9c maps and have most of them permanantly downloaded. On the other hand I have massivly detailed maps on paper for anywhere that I might want to go if things went to total crap in this world.

I do this with all of my preperations. Guns are great and highpowered guns with big magazines are top of the line for defence...BUT...I also have less powerful but just as deadly alternitives that I am well precticed with. I have a lot of canned and dried foods but then also have all sorts of things that will allow me to easily provide meat for me and mine. The BEST things are all illegal to use right now. If you want to know how to best catch animals on a REGULAR basis you need to get to know a poacher that sells meat and hides on the black market. I admit that I didn't have to do this...I had a brother in law for that sort of knowledge... when he wasn't in jail...

Hunting is a SPORT and you accept all sorts of hadicaps to make it SPORTING. Killing wild animals for food has nothing to do with being sporting and is amazingly easy compared to hunting. For one thing you will note that horns don't taste good and so don't matter and there are a LOT more deer in the forests with little or no horns that there are trophy bucks. Honestly where I live I can guarontee that i can put a deer on the butcher block within about 12 hours year around. Not one of those kills would be a legal kill today...but poached meat tastes exactly the same as "legally" killed game and we are not talking about sport hunting here.

I think that a lot of peope are going to get hungry because they just won't be able to understand the, to them, new realities of life.Those realities are that food gathering is not a sport and defending what you have does not include calling the cops. Some places will addapt almost over night and some places will be chaos for some times. In places like Texas where it is already considderd perfictly legal and apropriate to kill and attacker or thief won't change nearly as much as places where criminals are treated as the states most important citizens.

 

Lot of guess work kicking around regarding EMP damage, won't know really until it happens

"Statements touting the benefits of using a cell phone as a multitool are at best demonstrating a lack of understanding of what being prepared is about and at worst demonstrating a serious lack of survival instincts" Statement like this show an incredible amount of fixed ideas at play, not a good trait in a survival situation. Has anyone here said its a good idea to rely on modern technology without having skills, knowledge and other tools to hand? Multitools are designed to be a bit of a jack of all trades but not a replacement for any single trade, they have a function to perform and do those functions well if you picked the right tool. I've got a few hundred books on my phones (more than one) with back up copies on the cloud, on external hard drives, USB sticks and other machines. I can read them on a phone if I have to but prefer to read from a Kindle which is a better tool for the job of reading. If I had hard copies of every book I have I'd need a full size truck as a bug out vehicle.

For me prepping technology is vital if we don't want to end up with an ignorant (educationally) society two or three generations down the line. Preppers talk of preserving food, shame they're not as concerned with preserving knowledge.

 

Max, At the heart of this argument is how long after a major collapse do you think modern tech would be useable? Clothes will last until they wear out, even with the skills to keep them repaired. How long do you plan on having things like your cell phone, GPS, computer, etc. Still be usable?

I use tech every day but I plan on not having it any time if events collapse the system. Some tech will last and be usable the rest of my possible lifetime. Like steel tools, knives and ammo. Other tech won't last but days or weeks without the infrastructure to support them. ie, cell phones, vehicles, aircraft, public transit, hospitals, etc.I

Point of view seems to be the argument.

Dale

 

How long? Who can say; If you have to upsticks and move every few weeks things will get damaged, if your in a stable location long term where equipment can be well setup maintenance will be easier and the equipment will last longer. Also how much stock do you have, one gizzmo and it breaks and your stuffed, more gizzmo's and you move on to number two sort of thing.

I love technology, its my job, it pays me very well but my basic skills are good so I'm not relying on gizzmo's but they will be a massive boost to group survival and the future. Post fall it would take generations to produce goods even approaching what we have at our fingertips now, won't be anyone making computers for a long long time, its just too specialised.

When you think about it, you need to produce a lot of food to feed the specialists in society who don't grow and farm, blacksmiths/doctors/mechanics/coal miners/teachers/engineers even factory workers et al all need feeding and this goes back to community living, having these specialists is a luxury you'll only have in groups.

 

While this thread has strayed off topic a bit , will take the opportunity to ask . Do any of you have contacts in Australia ? Rumor has it a communication black out has been cast over the entire country , Only government communications allowed to escape . This is a reason not to depend on technology .

 

In any major conflict between superpower nations, the first assets to be destroyed are the satellites, the "birds". Each nation must shut-down the other nation's navigation and communications. "Eyes in the sky" must be blinded. Indeed, the first sign of an attack is that the "birds" die. We have all manner of anti-satellite satellites and suface-to-space missiles (add aircraft-borne air-to-space anti-satellite missiles).

In any world conflict, you can just say "bye-bye" to the "birds".

https://futurism.com/the-byte/report-pentagon-working-on-space-based-anti-satellite-tech

https://www.the-sun.com/news/3687396/us-spy-satellites-targeted-lasers-officials-claim/
.

 

Stop banging your head against the wall and accept technology will in fact be around a long while post fall. I threw in factory workers with the other people who don't work the land and need feeding like the blacksmith et al in reference to the few needing to feed many.

Old Geezer said (part) "Each nation must shut-down the other nation's navigation and communications"

Thankfully we'll have radio comms still, hams already have emergency networks set up called Raynet over here, https://www.raynet-uk.net/main/info_introduction.asp I'm now a member. I think its this in the USA, Chris will know more http://www.arrl.org/ares

 

LOL LOL LOL Brownbear....have been teaching myself from books on how to use a slide rule.

I have solar powered calculators ....four of them but want to get familiar with an olde slide rule.


Was thinking to myself if the SHTF...how many of us will have access to batteries...if the power grid goes down for any length of time.?? Even rechargeables only last but so long!!

Watcherchris
Not an Ishmaelite.

 

A good solar charger will take care of some types of battery - but neither the batteries or the charger will last forever.

 

You really don't have a clue about solar power or any tech for that matter do you They do work quite happily in the UK, brexit has not stopped the sun's rays working on solar panels and depending on battery type they will last 10-15 years, the panels 20-25 years and of course you have hydro which does not need batteries, just a washing machine motor and they'll be a few of them around.

What do you think I'd do with tech after a fall? Alternative power sources would give me some light, charge/power items and some appliances, ham radio et al. I won't be sitting there all day playing games I'll be too busy keeping a roof over my head and putting food on the table for that but at the end of a long hard day it will be nice to turn on a light and watch a movie or listen to some music, talk to other hams, read a book ...the list goes on.

My life will be more comfortable physically and mentally than yours and after a few days the freezer full of meat you talk about will be rotting nicely and your Luddite/stubborn/cantankerous approach to life and survival dictates you'll be sat in the dark with just your thoughts for company and thats not a good place long term for anyone. Look around on other sites and forums and you'll see I'm not on my own, look at what prepper sites are selling, its more and more tech; you don't like it? Thats your problem.

Please don't take this the wrong way but given your not a young man, not as physically fit as you were, you'd be dead very soon after a major collapse if you stayed with the idea of going it alone. I hope there is never the collapse some here dream of but if it happens I sincerely hope you find refuge and safety in a group.

Technology is a tool and comes in many forms, use it while you can before reverting back to a pretty grim existence.

 

This is true

 

"Why is England so cloudy?"

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/80275/why-is-england-so-cloudy

"Britain is particularly cloudy because it's located in the Warm Gulfstream. The heat necessary to evaporate all that water was absorbed off the American coast, and then transported along with the water. The air above Britain, on the other hand, is quite often coming from the polar areas and thus much colder.

"This combination of warm water flowing north and cool air flowing south provides the temperature difference that drives cloud formation around the British Isles."

=====================================

https://mienergy.ca/solar-power-generation-and-cloudy-days/

"From a scientific standpoint, the way solar panels generate energy on cloudy days is simple: sunlight still penetrates the clouds, so solar panels produce electricity even in overcast conditions. Of course, cloud coverage does reduce the panels’ efficiency and energy output.

.

 

No castle is impregnable, you might think you got all the guns and ammo you need but there is always a bigger better equipped group who could take your stuff if they really want it bad enough; being in a group of course increases the odds of your survival. The loners will be the first to suffer from the bully boys.

The new batteries for solar are expensive but you'll get 12-15 out of them and as I said hydro is the way to go, you can power a house off a washing machine motor enough to run basics.

You'll get 10-15 years off your inverters if you don't buy cheap so really if you and your group is organised you've got a decade to source spares etc by then if people work together some sort of grid will be up, certainly locally and I'd guess via hydro.

At house No2 in Spain I've costed a full off grid solar setup and buying good kit to power the whole house as if I'm on the national grid would cost me around £40k so that won't be happening but I will set up a system for radio/computer/TV and refrigeration so I'll be laying in a second circuit when I rewire the place (and Cat cable and USB points in all rooms) which won't cost me anything like £40K. I'm in the hills there so I'll play with a little wind turbine and see how it performs but to be honest I'm not a great fan of wind power.

 

If the world turns to crap my group plans on using what tech we have to profit from the situation. The grid may be gone but if you plan ahead and have the right supplies then some electricity, a video projector, and a large white tarp, you have a weekend movie theater. What will that bring? Good community relations. Electricity in my area comes from wind, sun and hydro fairly easily. I have a generator as does all members of my group. I run it on petro now but I can run it on propane, methane or alcohol. Chickens and goats make plenty of methane.

In a city things would be different, but I live in a very rural/remote area and my group controls a mountain top.

Use your tech as long as you can. Something as simple as a cell phone and the ATAK app could help you bug out or defend your bug in location.

Just my opinion.

Dale

 

I personally never go bush without topographical maps. Even if it's just a couple of hour's stint somewhere in the bush. It is so incredibly easy to get disorientated. Most people are basically idiots. They piss off into the bush without any idea. I also use a GPS (which is great for accurately pinpointing your position from time to time). However, you need to be able to read a map to ensure your accuracy at all times. If you don't, then you get what you deserve.

I have also trained my dog (yes, you're looking at him) to backtrack to the car and to find water. Oooooh, isn't he so cute? Hahahaha. Okay. Yep. You got me. His name is Blitz because he's good at blitzing just about anything. Lucky me.

 

You know what really worries me the most? Fuel. Diesel or petrol to run shit. I've just paid mega bucks for bad arse solar on my new house (that I haven't been able to move into, I might add) which is great, and although I have a generator, I'm going to purchase a you beaut new generator. But at the end of the day, if you don't have fuel to run the bastard and for whatever reason your solar is defunct, you're in a world of hurt.

I'm thinking of stockpiling but have no idea how long fuel lasts. Does it go "off". I know from personal experience trying to start the chainsaw with old fuel is a headache. From that I can surmise that fuel does have a shelf life.

I would love some pointers on this.

 

Yes, fuel does go off. With petrol you can tell from the smell, but before the smell changes it is well past its use by date.

 

So what sort of shelf life are we talking? I'm wondering if I stored and rotated it. I realise the best plan would be a "buckskin" but given my age and physical restraints, that ain't going to happen. Alas, I've missed the boat. So I have to work to my limitations.

 

Yes, of course. That makes sense. I've been reading about the fuel issues in China and Europe. Very disturbing. Thanks for your input. I may have to have a rethink.

 

You've got some solid points. I decided to go solar mainly because I'm sick to death of paying such ridiculous electricity bills. The cost of living in Aus is shockingly expensive. However, my ultimate goal is going off grid. When I researched it, I was told battery technology isn't that great yet but will improve in time. I don't know too much about it though. The knowledge is a work in progress. A bit like me. It does my head in to be honest.

 

I didn't realise it was as short a timescale as that, but it makes sense. In the old days when we found old Brit bikes for sale that had been stood, the first thing we did was sniff the petrol, if it smelled stale the whole system was drained and half a gallon of new stuff put in before we tried starting them.

 

If your living in the Hippy State you'd best start looking at solar/hydro because the sale of portable generators/chainsaws/leaf blowers etc will be banned. https://www.latimes.com/california/...toward-ban-on-gas-lawnmowers-and-leaf-blowers

Given the short shelf life of fuel it makes sense from the prepping point of few to look for alternative energy sources.

 

I absolutely detest electric/battery operated lawnmowers, chainsaws or whipper snippers. Unbelievable that they are going to outlaw them in California. What happened to personal choice? 2024 isn't that far away in the scheme of things. I'd be moving if I lived there. Seems all governments think they have our best interests at heart.

 

I couldn't believe it when my husband and I returned to the UK a few years back. The Midlands area we were living in had "outlawed" fires.

 

Bloody ridiculous.

 

The ant's nest analogy ... are you referring to Wolverhampton or Sierra Leone?

 

Yeah. My husband and I drove to Birmingham to look at a car. What a rat's nest of a place that is now. Totally agree. I couldn't even contemplate living in an urban area now. Ghastly thought. I'd end up topping myself I reckon.