Your primary defensive carbine(s)?

Discussion in 'Guns, Knives, Tools, Etc.' started by CivilDefense, Jul 1, 2016.

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  1. CivilDefense

    CivilDefense Expert Member
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    I thought I'd throw this out there for discussion: what is your primary defensive carbines for preparedness purposes? For defensive, this would preclude rifles primarily for hunting. I'll reserve the hunting rifles discussion for another thread.

    I'll get us started: our primary has been a Ruger Mini-14. Reason being that I have a good deal of experience with the Garand type rifles (M1, M14) and the M1 Carbine, so it was a natural fit. I shot a many, and owned one, Kalashnikov, but found it wanting. That said, I have an Armalite rifle (AR-15 pattern) in-bound to our local FFL, so that should shake things up. My wife is a very short, very petite woman, so has normally stuck to a 20-gauge shotgun and a Ruger 10/22 self-loader as a primary long-gun, but if she likes the AR, perhaps that, or another one, will work.
     
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  2. Lisa Davis

    Lisa Davis Active Member
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    I certainly don't want to give a list of my personal arsenal, but it includes 3 handguns and 2 rifles. However, besides ammo, we have also stockpiled some things that could be handy in making landmine-like or "booby" traps around the house if that ever becomes a necessary thing too. I don't obviously have a way to make bullets myself, although I know people with the equipment to do so. However, I also keep other weapons, like knives, crossbow, and a pretty nice, real Katana sword as things for protection in addition to guns.
     
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  3. Para173

    Para173 Well-Known Member
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    I'm an old Viet Nam sniper so I will always have some sort of scoped rifle with me. I'll also have some sort of pistol and sheath knife with me too. Now that I have gotten much older, more than likely, I'll keep things simple and go with a .223/5.56 caliber rifle for survival purposes here in the USA because that's the most common caliber and style of rifle. As for my pistol, I'll use my Glock 17 (G-17) because it has been a reliable handgun through thick and thin tactical situations over and over and over.
     
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  4. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    Defence gun is a m1 lots of range and great stopping power
     
  5. Brett Eden

    Brett Eden New Member
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    I totally agree with your choices. You can use the AR to hunt or go to war with it.
     
  6. Brett Eden

    Brett Eden New Member
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    Also I am a fan of the mini 14. I have killed many hogs and coyotes with one.
     
  7. Brett Eden

    Brett Eden New Member
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    I have a recipe for tannerite if anyone is interested.
     
  8. Brett Eden

    Brett Eden New Member
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    You can make your own cheaply and easily
     
  9. Mekada

    Mekada Expert Member
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    W
    What is tannerite?
     
  10. Mekada

    Mekada Expert Member
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    The AR platform is picking up on popularity in SA but the Ak 47 is far more popular. Most serious gun people have a decent hunting rifle and some old veterans love and own a R1(this is a vastly improved version of the FN FAL, chambered in .308) or the smaller R4 or R5(chambered in 5.56). I have loved the AK 47 since I was a kid and first shot it when I was 13 so if I can afford a rifle this would be it. The type 56 variant from Norinco is well made and popular over here.
     
  11. Para173

    Para173 Well-Known Member
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    Whatever you choose to own or use, I always suggest that a shooter have a telescopic sight for their rifle on hand. The idea for the sight is to enhance overall accuracy like what the ACOG and SUSAT sights do. Not try to turn all rifles into sniper rifles. Enhanced accuracy increases your chances for survival, especially when out and about on patrol and you stray across a wild animal, like a pig or deer, that can be used for food. One well placed shot and you have fresh meat. In some combat situations it also can give you an edge should you opt to use your sights in such situations as well. This applies to AK rifles as well.
     
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  12. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    Yes a riflescope is a great addition but only if it is of a suitable low magnification!

    For a dangerous moving target at less than 50m range 1-2x is needed! any more than this and tracking the moving target gets hard!
    I use a 1.5-4.5x scope for most of my rifles except the long range ones and then I use 4-16x power!

    Remember remember the scope should suit the target and range not the rifle it is fitted to!
     
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  13. Para173

    Para173 Well-Known Member
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    Uhh, Arkane, would you like to rephrase your last few words? "...not the rifle it is fitted to!" Scopes have to picked to work for the right distance, task and have got to fit on the rifle in a proper fashion. If they don't fit, then they don't do the shooter any good.
     
  14. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    Scopes are great tools make sure it is a scope made for the rifle its put on if not the recoil of rifle will jar the scope makeing it useless most shots are close range and a scope isnt needed ie under 100. Yards
     
  15. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    No I would not like to rephrase them!
    The scope is used to look at the target is it not? you do not look through the scope to view the rifle! and the scope is an optical device if I remember correctly!
    I was refering to the magnification factor only! the scope being robust enough and actually fitted to the rifle are other matters!

    While I am at it firearms do not actually kill people unless you use them as a club!
    A rifle is simply a launch device for a projectile and it is the projectile that is the true killer!
    Same as F18 fighters as they only kill when they crash, the real killers are the projectiles from the guns and the warheads on the missiles etc!
    If this is too deep for you please refrain from answering!
     
  16. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    Its a hom
    Its a home made explosive smiple to make very effective
     
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  17. Mekada

    Mekada Expert Member
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    I don't imagine that it would be legal to manufacture this stuff at present... Useful as it may be.
     
  18. Para173

    Para173 Well-Known Member
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    Arkane, my point was that the scope has GOT to fit the rifle, ammo, shooter and the situation in which it will be used. The best way to understand what I mean is that a daylight scope is used in daylight hours. During hours of darkness a nighttime scope gets used. That's the simplest of logic behind scope usage. Now, if it your scope doesn't match the ballistics of your rifle cartridge you're just lugging extra weight around for no good purpose at all. That's way many scopes have variable (ballistic) cams on them. In addition, once you practice and get to know, really know your scope, you CAN use your scope at close range if you so desire. That's what snipers learn to do while training with their rifles and scopes.

    With a 3 by 9 variable Redfield scope, shooting 7.62 NATO National Match ammo, a U.S. Army sniper would be trained to engaged a target from 0 to 900 meters using his rifle, ammo and scope. He could do it at slow speed, high speed, at lone targets or at multiple targets. Give it a try, Arkane, and see what I mean about engaging targets with a scope on the rifle at close range if you get a chance. You might also download the U.S. Army Sniper Manual and glance through it too. A couple of years ago I got to talk to one of the snipers from the 101st Airborne Division who had done 2 combat tours overseas. He told me that they're shooting as far at night as they do in the daytime because of the new thermal optics and magnifying systems. That's fantastic! I thought, in Viet Nam that we were doing good with 300 yards with Starlight Scopes. These guys are breaking 1,000 yards at night in some places.
     
  19. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    Duh! yes it has to physically fit on the rifle in use, thought that was a given.
    My point is that what do you actually do with a scope?
    Lets see now, it is an optical device so you would look through it right! and what is looked at through that device? you do not look at the rifle it is mounted on,
    you look at the TARGET !
    So even though the scope is mounted on a rifle it should be matched to the target in all its variations!

    "Give it a try, Arkane" What makes you think I have not? probably worn out more rifles than most! but sorry I am not ex US sniper/marksman etc so I obviously know nothing!

    ps my longest confirmed headshot is 1,156m but that was a camel so it don't really count ay!
     
  20. Para173

    Para173 Well-Known Member
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    You shot a camel at 1,156 meters? Nice. Nobody has said anywhere that you didn't know anything. Did they? That was a bit rude. So, how did the camel shot come to be? Fill in the missing gaps here. Tell us a story. I enjoy reading a good story. Which caliber of rifle did you use? It was a rifle, wasn't it? I had a pal tell me a long song and dance story about how an enemy soldier accidentally got shot with a spotting device off of a 106 recoilless rifle.

    Let's see here. We are working with a distance of 1,156 meters and a camel. That generally means you were probably in Africa or the Middle East when the incident happened. The distance involved places it at the extreme outer edges of the 7.62 NATO/308 Winchester/30.06 caliber ammo. If I had to guess I would say you were using a more modern round of some kind. Something along the lines of a .338 Lapua, .418 Cheytec or a .50 BMG sniper rifle of some kind for long range shooting. Those are the most accurate for distances up to and beyond the 900 meter mark. Out to 1,200 meters Blackwater Security contractors have been using the 6.5 Grendel rifles and getting good results.

    Arkane, just so you better understand me, I like to talk to people and exchange information. I enjoy a good conversation, a civilized debate or a polite discussion on various topics. Some of my ancient ancestors came from the middle counties of Great Britain. I have distant kith and kin scattered all over England, Scotland and Ireland. So my historic roots to Great Britain run very, very deep. That's the way it is for many Americans. Many of us have ties Europe that we honor. So sell us short in thinking that we don't respect our ancient heritage coming out of Europe.
     
  21. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    Yes it was a camel, it was in Australia if you know where that is! it was one of many camels, it was a head shot brain, to be exact.
    Rifle was a .308w with a heavy 30in stainless barrel on a homemade stock, firing 185gn FMJBT Lapua pills pushed by 49gn AR2209 Mulwex powder (compressed load)
    2780fps with a max velocity spread of 5fps. I use a fixed power 16x scope on it with BDC out to 1500m but only used out to 1,156m
    At my normal ranges of 500-900m I get groups less than 6in ( mornings only as the temps out here can climb 30c by early arvo!
    Retired several years ago from the camel shooting bit!

    Have been actively shooting since I was 10yo, sometimes for fun and sometimes for work bit old now for all that running, crawling and jumping stuff
    but occasionally teach ! am teaching today actually, cutting this post short as it is time to go!
     
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  22. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    Camel shooting down under ?
     
  23. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    So whats up with that? Australia has the best and largest wild camel population in the world
    we export to the middle east as our camels are better than there inbred lot!

    You must know lots about Australia!
     
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  24. Para173

    Para173 Well-Known Member
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    Interesting. I caught most of that, not all of that. I think that's because of the difference in languages. If you're in Australia then you know about the 1st RAR and the service that they did in Viet Nam. They served alongside my paratrooper brigade. They were good soldiers. In fact, when my unit holds a reunion we include them as a part of our group and we have a couple of chapters based down under in both Australia and New Zealand. My unit, in the early part of the war, was a composite group that consisted of American paratroopers, Australian artillerymen and New Zealand scouts. We are as proud of our Aussies and Kiwis as we can be. We had one guy who was "an opal farmer" if you can believe that. He came to one reunion and paid his whole trip by dealing in opals from his property. Any way, the 1st RAR guys used FAL rifles over in Viet Nam. Since then the Australian Army has gone to using the .223/5.56 Styer AUG for their primary carbine. Both rifles are good military rifles and work well for most shooting needs. The Australian military was going to low power scopes for enhancing general accuracy by using the AUG with its attached low power scope. That is a neat system in that it, like the original XM-16 system, was set-up so you were supposed to be able to change the uppers so that you could go from a rifle to a carbine to a heavier barrel upper for a light machinegun. The idea for the light machinegun, as I understand it, was that it would have been used as a support to the infantry squad's heavier machineguns. In other words, a sort of heavy duty automatic rifle.
     
  25. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    AUG's are ok but I prefer the M16 series of stuff not that I am allowed to have any anymore!

    AUG scope is great though! best part of the whole damned setup!

    Opal farming! been there done that, dug a deep hole and found zip!
    Sat in the hot artesian public pool at lightning ridge and found opals in the gravel at the bottom of the pool, go figure!
     
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  26. Para173

    Para173 Well-Known Member
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    At one reunion the lead Aussie started off his speech with, "First off, I would like to apologize for anything that we broke..." His speech only got better from there. The guys all had a keen sense of humor. Got a question: I'm toying with the idea of putting together my own AR format .308/7.62 NATO rifle. I want to use a Rock River LAR-8 for the bottom. I'm looking at possibly using an upper with a 24 inch barrel on it. I used 7.62 NATO National Match ammo in Viet Nam and I found that ammo was extremely accurate and I learned to love it. I believe it was a 173 grain bullet. As for a scope, I'm looking at a couple of different options, 3 by 9, 4 by 12 and maybe using a fixed 12 power in addition to a variable. That means I would have 2 scopes for the rifle. Have you worked with such a set-up? I've heard that after about 10K rounds the AR sniper rifles tend to burn out. Do you know anything about this? Just asking your opinion.
     
  27. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    4X12. On a ar 10 would be a awesome rifle i love the 308 with care rifle will be great for many years of use
     
  28. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    Do you know anything about this? Just asking your opinion.

    Don't have much of an opinion due to not having access to them over here!
    Was considering a AR15HBAR way back before the law changed. Limited to bolt actions now!
     
  29. Para173

    Para173 Well-Known Member
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    s15 rifle 2.jpg S15 rifle 1.jpg Here's an example of what I do. I set up this AR for close range tactical work. It's a Superior Arms S-15. It has a collapsible stock, a one point sling, an EOTech sight and MagPul pop up sights that co-witness with the EOTech. I put a lot of thought into what I want my rifles to do and look like. This rifle is my favorite of all of my rifles because it is the most versatile of all of them. I can switch out the sights and go to telescopic sights for longer range shooting purposes. So I have all bases covered with this one rifle. Close range and long range, this rifle will do the job.
    View attachment 405
     
  30. Daniel tyer

    Daniel tyer New Member
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    Well id have to say my extremely moded sks or my ar10 but my sks is my go to short to mid the ar10 is for down range and 870 bullpup converion for discussion also compound bows and black powder rifle for food we live in the country by a river the only thing to for me to worry about is my asthma meds but we can hold out indefinitely we also grow our own will start canning soon also soon start looking for buses for a fall out shelter they can hold alot of weight on top to put under ground got two generators but thinking of cheap alternatives we have 7 kids im med retired my wives a cna so we are always strapped for cash but we also feel better safe than sorry
     
  31. sarky

    sarky Expert Member
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    Tannerite is a binary explosive, That being it is in 2 parts that until mixed are relatively safe. Once mixed and then struck with a high velocity projectile it will explode.
     
  32. Spec OP warrior

    Spec OP warrior Expert Member
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    A McMillan Tac .338 Lapua Mag, Ruger p229 .357/.40 , Colt M4, a Barrett M82 .50 cal , and a S&W 45 cal 1911
     
  33. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    A m16 lowers are not sold on open market anywhere iknow of ar lowers are everywhere since down under laws are tuff find it hard to belive you have any type of a ar access. A head shot on a camel at 1156m with a 308 i have to say your full of bs arkane tell me a real story not a pipe dream
     
  34. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    Believe or not I do not give a rats!

    Maybe you should learn to read and comprehend the written word a little better first!

    "Do you know anything about this? Just asking your opinion.

    Don't have much of an opinion due to not having access to them over here!
    Was considering a AR15HBAR way back before the law changed. Limited to bolt actions now!"

    I clearly stated here that I don't have much of an opinion due to lack of access ie they are not available here!
    When they were available here I had been considering an AR15HBAR but circumstances changed and they were no longer available, they are still not available!

    I do not have pipe dreams!
    And again an example of that pandemic is demonstrated by mr tom
     
  35. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    I myself do not own or like a ar they are nice rifles just people get upset when you have one in your rifle rack in the truck it scares people i own a rugar mini 14 it is a nice little rifle that most people have no idea what itis but oh thats anice rifle now i do have a old m16 that is a war trophy its a great rifle it is in good shape and rocks and rolls when needed its not needed atm so it is cared for and mantained but has spent most of its time in the gun room im sorry your goverment took your gun rights away but its not my problem as i have no say as to how your country is run i served with men from down under and have mates down under to this day it shocked me when your country passed those laws because of the men i knew and served with would of been very pissed at the goverment for passing those laws
     
  36. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    The gun laws are actually quite ok in most respects !

    Taken away a lot of fun though! as I had to hand in 2x M1 carbines, 1x M1ASupermatch, 3x Mini14s, 3x A512gs and three.22lr semiautos!

    M1ASupermatch was new and still unfired! so that really hurt! I burn through a lot less ammo since.
     
  37. AJFKDEM

    AJFKDEM Member
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    Ruger AR556 and a Sub2000.
     
  38. Prairie Dog

    Prairie Dog Expert Member
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    For 50 or less I have an open sight 12 gauge, for longer, a .270, for in the middle high capacity 10/22s. slowly building towards sustainable defense with redevelopment of the land to remove cover for "unwanted visitors", reloading capabilities for the .270 and shotgun (as we are holding in place on our rural property) and seriously considering following Keith's advise in regards to muzzle loading platforms for hunting and such. My long term is to purchase and learn the use of a simple bow. silent, arrows can be made at a rudimentary level and the technology is dyi posible if the time and effort is spent.
     
  39. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    As to the realm of carbines, allow me to 2nd the vote of those folk who choose a handgun caliber for a short repeating rifle. Small rifles are often for close-in use, i.e. house or car. A 9mm out of a 16" barrel has the energy of a .357 mag -- again, close-in. If bugging out, you may have to return fire from a vehicle = no space to maneuver a decent battle rifle, plus you'll want more power than a handgun will provide you. A 9mm short rifle or a .357/.44 mag lever carbine is much more useful. I've owned both. And speaking of short, check out Henry Arms' mares leg mare line of pistols -- yes, they must call them pistols, because such a short rifle is profoundly illegal.

    Sighting in a mares leg is a bit of a pain (no buttstock), but they are capable of accuracy. I own a little one in .22 mag. (wife adores it, fun to shoot from the hip; feral dogs beware!; I've lived where dog packs were an issue). Once sighted-in, put a see-through scope mount with the top 1" ring containing a laser -- i.e. point and shoot. As to caliber, use the caliber you already have stocked up on (I recommend the .357 or .44 mag). If someone is shooting at you while you are driving, you can quickly swing this into action. If you put a powerful green laser on top, you can also blind the person trying to take your life -- be profoundly cautious with such a class of lasers, they'll blind YOU if you don't watch out (me, I don't own such a thing).

    The 9 mm carbines are on the lite side (great for dog packs), however some are available in .45 auto -- a round that really can benefit from a 16" barrel. A handy sight for these little puppies is a red dot -- turn, point, shoot. Again, think about the car situation / think about someone getting too close too quickly; the proverbial "oh-sh##!" situation. A short rifle swings fast; blam, blam, blam. It stays on target. It outperforms a handgun. Later, you can walk off the adrenaline.

    https://www.henryrifles.com/rifles/mares-leg/
     
  40. AJFKDEM

    AJFKDEM Member
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    Agree with the 9mm being a little light, but, all my handguns are 9 mm and hated the idea of having to carrying another caliber so I opted for the Sub 200 in 9 mm. Am putting 147 grain JHP's through all my nines for added oomph, and she shoots fast and accurate. Should be alright. Agree on the red dot as well and my little Subbie sports one.
     
  41. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Give a 9mm a longer barrel, say over 12", certainly 16", and it will hit at .357 energies, 147 grainers included. Too, a 9mm carbine has almost no recoil -- I've owned one. Plus, they are super-fun to shoot, thus one is getting practice ... while having a fun day w/ cheap surplus ammo.

    Physics 101: you got a bullet designed to open-up at handgun barrel lengths, now you send such a bullet out with .357 energies. That bullet is going to expand. Since you are shooting 147 grainers, the bullet stands a great chance of going deep enough, plus expanding = you've given it every chance of doing its job. I'd hate for my enemy to be armed with that weapon/ammo combo.

    The handgun / carbine combo dates back almost 150 years here in America. Think of all the people who carried 44-40, 38-40, 32-20 in both their rifle and revolver -- tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of people who depended on such a combo to protect themselves and to put food on the table. My paternal grandfather carried a 32-20 revolver. I saw a >100 yr old 32-20 pump rifle within the past month -- oh but did I want that rifle! Pap shot a fellow with that revolver -- stopped the fight (dumb robber had brought a knife to a gun fight).
     
  42. Michael Grosso

    Michael Grosso New Member
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    When it comes to fire arms, everyone has their favorites and opinions on and the pros and cons of multiple brands, styles, and calibers. I come from a background that has experience with many variants and have spent an extensive amount time with a wide range of weapons and firing conditions. To choose, one must consider the scenario they are planning for. Are you 'digging in' and remaining stationary? Are you going mobile in a vehicle until your fuel is exhausted? Are you striking out on foot? I have thought about each of these options in depth, and in my current environment, I would need to strike out on foot or by vehicle to escape several dozen miles of urban sprawl and seek out my predetermined semi-permanent camp. Rather than bore you in this particular post about my reasoning and choices, I'm simply going to list the firearms I've chosen for my planned egress, and a brief reason behind them. It's important to note that I have trained with dozens of rifles and pistols, and have chosen these models for specific reasons.

    - Primary Defensive/Mid-Sized Game Hunting Rifle:
    I have chosen the Kel-Tec SU-16C as my primary rifle. It collapses to just under 25", and weighs just 4.3lbs unloaded. It fires a .223/5.56 NATO round. Now before the AR15, AK, .308 purists light me up about my choice, I am well versed with guns. Let me just say that I have put thousands of rounds through the 2 models of this rifle that I have owned. It's light, dependable, simple, and extremely versatile. It has a collapsible stock and bi-pod. Yes, it's a primarily specialized polymer rifle, hence the weight. My experience has been that it's extremely reliable when hot, cold, wet, or dirty. I have chosen the .223 because of the weight of ammunition and the abundance of rounds that might possibly for scavenging.

    - Secondary Small Game Rifle:
    Yes, I have a second rifle I plan to carry for small game hunting. I have chosen the Remington Mohawk 66 Nylon .22lr. Remington asked DuPont to design a polymer for this gun, and they developed a polymer called Zytel-101. The receiver and mechanics of this rifle are made with this material, and the great thing about it is that it's self-lubricating and requires very little if any cleaning and break-down. You can carry 1000 rounds of .22lr with relative ease, and if you're a semi-adept hunter, small game should be easy to acquire. Once again, weight of rifle and ammunition have come into play.

    -Sidearm
    I'm a firm believer in 9mm semi-auto pistols. In a survival situation, the 9mm has the power necessary to drop a target, and once again, scavenging ammunition will be easier with this wildly available caliber. I plan on carrying a Taurus PT709 which is small and light. Weight of ammunition has once again been taken into consideration.

    In summary, after much thought and practice, these are my choices. Please feel free to share your choices for the range of survival scenarios. No need to criticize my plans, but please feel free to share yours.
     
  43. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    I own a 357 pistol and a 357 lever action rifle i own a 22pistol and a 22lever action rifle i onn a 9mm pistol and a 9mm carbine plus for quieti own 22cal pellet istol and rifle firm beliver in combos of same caliber
     
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  44. Flying lead

    Flying lead New Member
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    Various shotguns 410 up to 10 gage,rifles-m1 garand 3006 with bipod, mini14 scoped pencil barrel,1903a3 for hot ap, and api , Ishapore 7.62 ,various.22s .44 mag wheeler .36 bp 5 shot wheel bp shotguns and rifles and a -man now I'm embarrassed a high point .45 carbine ,it's like a fat woman fun to be with but you don't want to be seen with haha. I reload all but.22s I cast buckshot and other pills, make my own black powder forgot about the cross bow
     
  45. OfficerOtto

    OfficerOtto Well-Known Member
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    I carry a Glock 22 with me the majority of the time. As a result, I purchased a KelTec Sub 2000 that accepts Glock 22 magazines. While it may not be as robust as something like a Remington 870 or an AR-15, I don't have to change any piece of my kit when carrying. I simply loop it over my shoulder and go. It also has the added advantage of folding down to fit in a standard laptop case or small backpack. I've got an upgraded front sight on it, because the factory one on the 2nd generations are quite frankly garbage, a TLR-1s light and a single point sling on it.
     

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  46. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Sounds super to me. (Does that KelTec's bolt lock back when the magazine goes empty?)

    What saves lives is possessing a readily accessible weapon. Considering the dark days ahead, rioting/civil-mayhem, who'd not want a belt-fed Browning .50 mounted in the bed of their pickup! OK, so that's not happening.

    "Oh sh##!" encounters demand instant action. My grandfather would have gotten gravely injured or dead on two occasions had he not had his revolver with him (waistband holster). Think about being in your pickup and then suddenly have a crew of evolutionary throw-backs start ramming your truck attempting to wreck you, plus they could also be shooting at you. Suddenly we're not in television land and your heart is slamming in fight or flight mode. The interior of a vehicle only allows you maneuvering room for a folding-stock shotgun, a handgun, or a rifle carbine. Your .40 S&W team fits the bill for this combat scenario.

    I can't imagine more convenient and effective friends than your Glock/KelTec combo.
     
  47. OfficerOtto

    OfficerOtto Well-Known Member
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    Sadly the bolt does not hold open on an empty mag. It's really the only drawback on an otherwise very impressive and functional gun for the money. I believe the Gen 1 versions did, but they were also twice the price and not as reliable.

    I would prefer the Gen 3 that accepts 9mm Glock 17 mags and pair it with a Glock 17, but I am issued a Glock 22 in .40 so we are sticking with that by default.

    I had also do considered the Beretta CX4 and their carbine, as they share mags, but the price point for that combo is significantly higher. Glock also makes factory 22 round magazines for their .40 caliber pistols and I don't know of any reliable after market Beretta extended mags.

    I also have an AR handy that is available if the pistol-caliber carbine isn't going to do the job. Honestly where I live (southeast coast) this is going to be rare. Generally speaking, if I can't hit my threat with the carbine it will probably be far enough away that with a little ingenuity and intelligence I can sneak around it. Always preferable.
     
    Old Geezer likes this.
  48. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Great info. I've looked at the Keltec.

    Being an old geezer, I'm flabbergasted at the prices on firearms. Were I to tell you what I could have purchased for little money, you'd cry. For example, I passed up a FN-FAL (had metric receiver) for $350. I kinda get a tear in my eye thinking about this, myself.

    If you are a cop, you don't get paid anywhere near what you need to be paid. Worse, there are departments that have you buy your own weapon. Man, that must hurt. Young folk are forced to take out a lone on a dang firearm. I don't see how young people get by anymore. How do young folk afford mortgages? I'm definitely from a former era.
     
  49. CivilDefense

    CivilDefense Expert Member
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    I recently purchased an Auto-Ordnance M1 Carbine in, naturally, .30 Carbine for my better half. She is of very small stature, so the carbine fits her well. I'm sticking with the AR and Mini-14, of course, for primary carbines, but it is good she's proficient on something more peppy than her suppressed Ruger 10/22. I've found the 15-round magazines, generally, work like a beauty, but the 30-rounders are a bit more hit and miss. C'est la vie.
     
  50. sarky

    sarky Expert Member
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    I like the .30 carbine, as I have 3 in .30 carbine, 1 in .256 Win Mag (a .357 necked down to .256 cal) and a receiver that I'm looking to build to either .22 TCM or 9mm Magnum. If you reload, the 90 grain XTP bullet feeds well and is impressive in its terminal stage.
     
    Old Geezer likes this.
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