Best Animal For The Apocalypse?

Discussion in 'Finding, Identifying, and Preparing Food' started by Levi Seller, Jun 19, 2018.

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  1. Levi Seller

    Levi Seller New Member
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    Is it true that rabbits are the best animal for the apocalypse because of how often they can breed?
     
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  2. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    not if that is all you eat! there is a thing called "rabbit starvation" because of how little fat they possess.
     
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  3. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Lonewolf is correct, you can't live on rabbit meat alone, but they are prolific breeders so worth keeping/hunting/trapping for food & furs.
    Keith.
     
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  4. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I do like rabbit meat myself, but you need some fat with it, a bit of pork fat say.
    I like a game stew, some rabbit, some venison, maybe some pheasant or other game bird and maybe some wild boar if we can get it, if not then we use a lump of pork....not strictly game but the nearest equivalent.
     
  5. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Probably if you could only have one type of critter the best would be some member of the long haired goat group. They can provide you with meat, milk and wool while at the same time being hardy guards for your place. Second place would possibly be a potbelly pig. They breed fast and allow you to "recycle" any leftovers or waste. Then would be some sort of fowl. Meat, eggs and feathers are all hard to beat. The only problem with chickens is that EVERYTHING wants to eat them and their eggs and you have to guard them or a predator will wipe them out. Guinea fowl are better because they will roost in the trees but don't expect them to help you go unnoticed. On the other hand nobody will ever sneak up on your home place.

    I hate to mention this because so many in the US don't react to it well but dogs breed well and are probably a lot nicer to have around than chickens. They are actually a good meat animal and commonly eaten all over the Far East.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
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  6. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Before the Chestnut blight of 1917, my people would turn out hogs to the wild. The hogs would fatten-up on the forest mast, then the men would hunt them down. Everybody had smokehouses. Pepper was one of the staples the people up in the hollars went into town to buy; that and things like primers (later on in the 1800s, people got away from flintlocks), salt, ticking, copper, this and thats. They'd trade pelts, corn liquor, applejack, wild game meat, ... Pepper and salt were pounded into the pork prior to its being smoked in the smokehouse.

    https://howtomakeapplepiemoonshine.com/applejack-recipe/

    George Washington used to crank-out mass quantities of whiskey and applejack from his rather large distillery.

    https://www.mountvernon.org/the-estate-gardens/gristmill/ten-facts-about-the-gristmill/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington's_Gristmill
     
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  7. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    geese make good guard dogs.
     
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  8. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    So I have heard, but a fox took all of our geese one by one & we didn't hear a quark out of any of them!!!:(
    Keith.
     
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  9. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    used to visit one place when we lived in Somerset, guy had a load of geese in the front yard could never get past them and they were vicious.
    alpacas make good guard dogs too and they don't like foxes.
     
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  10. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Geese and ducks need a pond with an island to sleep on and nest on. A friend made little "islands" by driving posts down out in the little pond then putting a plank on them. He nailed wooden barrels on the planks and had a regular duck condo for them that the foxes dogs and cats couldn't bother.
     
  11. Ken S LaTrans

    Ken S LaTrans Active Member
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    My grandmother always swore by having chickens and rabbits on the ranch (which my grandfather hated)...but I digress. I have heard of rabbit starvation and can see where it could be an issue long term. I don't keep rabbits in my southern AZ home because it never gets cold enough to kill the worms (or so my dad always said), but I live five miles down a dirt road from the closest paved road in my little fart of a desert town and we have more javelina out here than you can shake a stick at and they water in my stock tank like clockwork. I think of them as fatty rabbits.
    KSL Desktop Javelina Stock Tank.png
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
  12. Ken S LaTrans

    Ken S LaTrans Active Member
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    You haven't lived until you have had a Javelina Burrito that was slow cooked in the crock pot all day.
     
  13. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    :) b9373eec3813a4b8dbb0b6e1ec532b56.png
     
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  14. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    First and foremost, all healthy animals carry fat, rabbit starvation isn't caused by lack of fat, it is a vitamin deficiency caused by not eating green vegetables (for vitamins, minerals and fibre that acts as a slow release carbohydrate) in conjunction with the rabbit to allow your body to digest and make use of the rabbit fat.
    Rabbit is deficient in some vitamins, eating rabbit can actually leach out more vitamins from your body then it can supply which exacerbates the problem.
    There is a danger in getting all your information from a Google search as misinformation gets recirculated and used as a reference for the next ill informed article.
    Historically if you look at instances of rabbit starvation/protein poisoning they took place during dark winter in a time when nutrition wasn't as well understood. Whatever you use as a source of protein needs to be balanced with vitamins, minerals, carbohydrates and water in order to make best use of it and maintain you're physical fitness.

    I would put forward the idea that insects could possibly form a large part of the human diet post apocalypse....they're already a big thing in other cultures.
     
  15. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    if someone is down to eating insects as their main source of food I think they've failed as a survivalist.
     
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  16. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    Balls Lone Wolf...as usual you're projecting your own preconceptions....there are plenty of cultures where eating insects is already mainstream, could Australian Aboriginal tribes be called failures when it comes to survival in the bush? Could the Amer-Indian tribes of the Amazon basin be described as Armchair survivalists and failures?
    One of the key traits of a survivalist is adaptability.
     
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  17. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    your going to have to eat a hell of a lot of crickets to get enough protein to do all the work you'll have to do post SHTF:p(you ever noticed how skinny and short the Aboriginal and Amazon peoples are? what they eat could have a lot to do with it).
    you can keep your insects i'll be eating roast guinea pig:Dlike the Inca's.
     
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  18. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    Contrary to what you say LoneWolf it has been shown that many insects contain very high levels of high quality protein, as a consequence you would need to eat less of them to survive then you might think. There are restaurants serving insects these days, I'm sure there are recipes that would make them very palatable so there is no need to be squeamish about it.
     
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  19. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    need one helleva stock of brown sauce for me to want to eat them!!!:p
     
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  20. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    Fine, all the more for me...
     
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  21. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    your welcome.
     
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  22. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    We have pigs running wild all over the place here now. If people were to stop killing them I can't imagine how many we would have in just a few years. I know people that probably kill over a hundred hogs a year on their property and still have not made a dent in the population.

    The we have cattle all over around here. This is a ranching area rather than a farming area. We even have a place down the road that raises all sorts of exotic critters from mostly Africa. You never know what you will see when you go by their place. They have 500 acre fenced with 8 foot tall metal fencing.

    We have lots of hispanic people around here too and that means lots of goats and chickens. If something stops the supply trucks to the stores it isn't like we won't be able to find food because none of this counts the wild game.

    After a lot of people die off there are going to be huge packs of dogs that are going to have to be thinned out. Don't waste the meat. In farming areas dog packs can become serious issues if they are not kept under control. they will kill your livestock and also can become carriers of rabies. A bite from a rabid dog if you can't go to a modern fully supplied hospital is the same as a bullet in the head.

    There is a reason why a lot of predator species are almost extinct in areas where they used to be common. They can't compete with the ultimate predator and people don't share worth spit. They are making a comeback in a lot of areas now because there aren't so many people raising their own food like it was in the middle of the last century. When you start raising small livestock you are going to become very aware of the foxes, racoons, coyotes, wolves, snakes, cats and dogs that want to eat your little critters. They are just part of the experience.
     
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  23. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    We have an issue with wild boar over here, there was an accidental release of about 40 of them, since they can mate from around 11 months old and the females can farrow average litters of around six predominantly female piglets up to three times a year for twenty years.
    They have no natural predators here so their population now exceeds 1500 and is growing geometrically. Farmers and landowners need to get on top of this situation fast before wild boar are beyond control.
     
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  24. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    To make matters even worse here, some idiots turned some Russian boars lose to make them into better hunting. Those Russian Boars are MEAN, SMART and HUGE!! When you see one you know right off this isn't just an escaped domestic hog. They are built differently and can have tusks that are over 6" long. In India the Russian Boar was considered above the Tiger as far as being dangerous to hunt. They are hard to kill and have a real taste for fresh meat that you don't normally have with escaped domestic hogs.
     
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  25. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    The Russian wild boar are close kin to the European wild boar that where released in the UK...the males can often reach 300kilos.
     
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  26. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    there was a load released here in North Devon several years ago, they have now spread down to the outskirts of Plymouth, the late Johnny Kingdom organised a shoot of them, they spent all day traipsing around the woods and didn't even SEE one never mind shoot one!!
     
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  27. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    If absolute OPSEC is critical, you can’t beat the food value of certain insects. To remove the “ick” factor, simply dry the cooked insects and pulverize them into a powder which can be added to liquids, sprinkled over whatever you are eating. This is a huge nutritional boost to the diet. As a plus, certain insects have a flavor profile that is useful for, believe it or not, culinary seasonings which is in current use by countries around the world.

    While this is not my preferred cuisine at the moment, I realize the day may come where my supplies may be depleted and ALL other food sources may become scarce or problematic to raise. What then? If I prepare well enough beforehand, I may not suffer as much as some others.

    I believe being flexible is essential to survival.
     
  28. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Now the question that comes to my weak mind is, which insects to eat and and how to raise them. I did learn about maggots and they seem to be simple to raise (sort of) Decaying meat and flies do most of the work. Harvest and munch away. Don't know how to raise crickets and such.
     
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  29. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    Whatever insects you choose to eat or farm they're easiest to harvest at the larval stage. Bees, wood ants, wasps, maggots, beetle grubs...all pretty much the same. I'd suggest stir frying them with garlic, ginger and soy sauce. They're a very rich source of protein so you don't even need that many. Bulk up the meal with vitamins rich vegetables and carbs in the form of rice...I've paid for worse at a restaurant before now.
     
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  30. Duncan

    Duncan Expert Member
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    The closest I've come to eating insects (not counting swallowing one inadvertently) preparing biscuits using cricket flour, which Dawn and I got for (hold on to your hat) $9.95 US a quarter-pound. Tasted just fine, but hardly cost-effective!

    My SHTF animals would be the ones we already have: chickens and goats. Fairly inexpensive to raise once you have them and room to raise them, and lots of meat, eggs, and milk.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2019
  31. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    if you've ridden motorbikes for as long as I have you'll have swallowed enough insects accidentally in your lifetime, I don't think I want to do it on purpose!!!:p
     
    1. Ystranc
      Pmsl
       
      Ystranc, Feb 27, 2019
  32. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    Bruh, you're doing it all wrong, lol.

    Unfortunately, one of the side effects of bike riding is that your face becomes a bug-catcher. Where I am from, bugs catch a free ride every. single. time. Ugh.

    I don't think I would enjoy bugs on the menu either unless they were reduced to an unrecognizable form! That goes for certain rodents, too. I would hope to have the liberty to cook and debone them first...

    .
     
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  33. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    Truth be told, maggots would be at the very bottom of my options list. A better use for them might be to entice birds in a trap, or as chum for fish bait. (Hang a dead rat or whatever from a tree branch over the water and let the flies do their thing. The resulting maggots will soon drop into the water, which will attract more fish than you can imagine. Soon the fish will learn this is THE prime dinner spot.)

    Edible insects are so widely varied that entire websites are devoted to them. Some bugs are super easy to raise.

    For a few years, I kept tree frogs as pets and was shocked to discover how expensive their food was to buy. Heck with that! I soon learned how easy it is to raise crickets and mealworms. Bonus: you can use the crickets as fish bait too.

    I happen to love hearing crickets on a summer night, and I kept my best breeding stock in a container that I would bring indoors whenever I wanted to relax with the sounds of nature--at any time of the year. I was not surprised to learn that since ancient times, the Chinese and Japanese kept crickets as pets for their music, and for sport (racing, fighting, etc.)


    .
     
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  34. Duncan

    Duncan Expert Member
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    My last two kids: Lady Grey on the left, an 1100 Yamaha VStar; Off-Road Red on the right, a 250 Kawasaki KLR. Gave them up after breaking leg and ankle at age 72. I still grieve a bit, but when the time comes, whatcha gonna do?
    922771_10151368519335685_345076239_n.jpg
     
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  35. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    507b671d4535419418d4fe1468d586f1.jpeg
    We keep chooks & ducks, we have contemplated other livestock & we have kept sheep, goats & pigs in the past, but we always come back to keeping fowls as our best option. From these we get eggs, meat, & fertilizer for the garden, & with a rooster & a drake we can have a supply of new chicks coming along.
    Keith.
     
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  36. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    In Southern Appalachia, my kin raised hogs and chickens. Before the Chestnut blight of 1917, hogs were set out to feed on the forest mast. One didn't actually "keep" hogs, know'whut'I'mean.

    Locals did travel to trading posts to buy lead. Gunpowder was made locally. One lady back in the 1700s made gunpowder near where I grew up. She made tons of it (used in Revolutionary War) out of bat guano. Limestone rock plus rain (water gets acidic once on land) makes caves. Bats like caves. Poop makes explosives. There are natural deposits of sulfur and charcoal can be made.

    Today, wheelweights are made of lead = ready supply.
     
  37. elkhound

    elkhound Expert Member
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    grizzgal....i am staying away from bugs for various reasons...you know some of them.



    but i was out with an expert herpetologist last year and i learned a lesson.....here in my area we have a tiny 'lizard' that if you ate it you are a dead duck.it has same toxin in it as a puffer fish.

    years ago i was in the field with a wildlife biologist and he was showing a...a type of millipede...he was telling how it put off a toxin....well awhile later he was sweating and wiped his eyes and instantly poisoned himself...he started screaming and thank god i had lots of water in my pack to flush his eyes out.

    elk trys to eat only what he knows very well...lol
     
  38. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    I'd say that a man could let his dogs feed off of the interloping humans he's killed. However .... think about it ..... do you really want your dogs to learn to eat human meat?! I mean, what if Roscoe, Cerberus, and Rip-Rip start looking at you differently! Same goes for hogs -- don't feed ambient temp looters to your hogs.
     
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  39. elkhound

    elkhound Expert Member
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    chickens and fowl,goats and sheep for me...coupled with wild stuff...that i know..lol

    chickens and goat for its daily calories via eggs and milk....regular calories.

    shtf and i will be setting eggs in incubator hatching out more eggs layer or stew pot volunteers...and before anyone says it..no electricity for incubator...i got it covered.search out incubators before there was electricity.
     
  40. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Something that I remember from long ago is that while we look at guinea pig as a pet they were actually bred to be a domestic meat animal. The various people in the Andean regions of South America domesticated it and were using it as a meat supply as early as 5000 BCE. They are a member of the rodent family and as such are FAST breeders. From what I have read, they are a lot better than rabbits because they have fat deposits that eliminate the health issues that come from eating too many rabbits. Just a thought...
     
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  41. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Breed rabbits and the little guinea pigs and problem solved. Limited space requirements and hopefully you can grow their food, along with your own. Something to consider. Thanks TexDanm.
     
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  42. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    My daughter had guinea pigs and they were easy to feed and take care of. Think of what rats eat. They are sweet little animals but dumb as a box of rocks. They are sort of like chickens. They were bred for meat production and smarts were not needed.
     
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  43. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    Off and on for the past some years, I have been reading all that I can find about raising guinea pigs for food (especially for SHTF times). I remember reading in a survival forum (forgot which) that the drawbacks one of the posters had with Guinea pigs were: 1) they are cute in looks and personality-wise which is why they are popular as pets, and it was kinda hard to knock them over the head and eat them. (I think that mindset will change in a hurry during hard times.) 2) they are noisy, which is more pronounced if you have more than one or two. (Not good for maintaining OPSEC.)

    I still think it is a doable option!

    After all, millions of South Americans couldn't have been wrong!

    (I have no qualms about eating cute critters. Hmmm... GP jambalaya. It's what's for dinner. Yep, I could do that!)

    I found something interesting on Wiki re: guinea pig sounds. Scroll down this page to hear a wide range of vocalizations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinea_pig

    Here is a Youtube video that explains what these noises mean:



    .
     
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  44. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    They have the best feed to meat conversion ratios, but they don't have enough fat to rely on them as your only meat source.

    They do have the benefit of being easy to care for in a small area and you can feed them wild plants and kitchen scraps.
     
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  45. coffee

    coffee Expert Member
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    Hey Keith, do you know of a good video about skinning a rabbit, and do you just sew them together for a coat, blanket, or such?
     
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  46. Yenix

    Yenix Well-Known Member
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    coffee, I remember my grandfather used to have rabbits for meat. Today, they are mostly pets. Maybe this video will help:

     
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  47. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Rabbits are good eating and really are easy to raise. The thing about starving to death from eating rabbits is true BUT there are very few things that you can eat to the exclusion of other foods and be healthy. Your body needs fats to function. Rabbits don't have fat. Just don't try to live on any one type of meat and it won't be a problem. As far as the noise they are on the quiet side when compared to most other small domestic livestock like chickens, guinea fowl, ducks and such.
     
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  48. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    I was at one time many years ago into raising rabbits commercily . There was a buyer that agreed to buy all I could raise by the pound . It didn't take me long to have hundreds of rabbits . I kept a very close record of my feed expenses and soon discovered my feed expenses were higher than what the rabbits were bringing . I got out of the rabbit business . Now that doesn't mean raising rabbits from a preppers prespective isn't a valid consideration . You may have a free and plentiful food supply for rabbits . I am simply giving my experience with raising rabbits .
     
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  49. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Were you buying all your feed and could you have grown enough feed to keep a family fed with the rabbits?
     
  50. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    I was buying all of my feed and yes I could easily have feed my family on nothing but rabbit meat plus some more folks . My wife got so tired of eating domestic rabbits , she still occasionaly mentions her dislike for the meat . Domestic rabbits I think most would like the taste , the meat is more tender than wild rabbits and wild rabbits aren't tough .
     
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