Bugging Out Should Be Your Last Option

Discussion in 'General Q&A' started by Jim Cobb, Jul 11, 2017.

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  1. Jim Cobb

    Jim Cobb New Member
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    It is a common misconception, even among those who have been involved with prepping for quite some time, that bugging out should be your primary plan in an emergency. I'm not quite certain why that is, but I suspect movies and novels have a lot to do with it. I mean, there's something to be said for the high-flung adventures of the typical lone wolf hero who is trekking on foot across the country to rescue his family or just find his way back home. Sometimes, he is accompanied by an inexperienced but trustworthy sidekick and/or a loyal canine companion that is more intelligent than most people they meet in their journey. Standard gear usually includes a bug out bag that is seemingly bottomless and that contains everything from a dozen firearms to enough food to last a battalion a month.

    Reality check - you're not John Thomas Rourke, Morgan Carter, Mason Raines, Gordon Van Zandt, or any of the other popular prepper/survivalist heroes. While you might have some great skills that relate to survival and preparedness, you probably aren't going to get far with a bug out bag that outweighs you. I know, I know, the more skills you have the less gear you need to carry. Someone needs to tell novelists to keep that in mind as they craft their adventure-filled tales.

    Packing a bug out bag is one of the quintessential prepper tasks. That's all well and good and certainly advisable. Some go so far as to choose their bug out locations and even plan different routes to get to them. That's great! But, the step that is very often overlooked is deciding in advance when bugging out will make sense. Determine for yourself and your family what some of the "red flags" would be that would cause you and yours to beat feet.

    If you give it serious thought, that list is likely to actually be fairly small. I mean, outside of mandatory evacuation scenarios there just aren't that many situations where bugging out is going to be your absolute best option. That's especially true if you don't have an established bug out location where you can hunker down and ride out whatever is happening. Hitting the road without a specific destination in mind just makes you a refugee. It also puts you at great risk, which isn't nearly as cool and fun as it sounds.

    Most preppers store their gear and supplies at home, right? Yet time and again I talk to preppers and survivalists who almost literally drool at the thought of just grabbing their vaunted BOB and heading for the hills. Why? Why leave the bulk of your supplies behind?

    Don't be so eager to bug out in a crisis. Yes, there are definitely times when that is going to be the best solution and you should plan for it. At the same time, though, you need to determine some criteria as to when it would make sense for you to do so rather than staying home and availing yourself of the supplies and gear you've so painstakingly compiled.
     
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    1. reynolds
      it's not a misconception at all. Those in cities will have no choice but to leave in very few days, cause they will have no water. It will be so dangerous to be out and about there, that once they leave for water, firewood, etc, they will choose to just keep on going, out to the farms, where they can loot produce and livestock. Very few people, anywhere in the world, and certainly not in UK, are more than one night's motorcycle, ride and a night's walk, from millions of people. In UK, it's a few night's bicycle ride. The US, all 3200 miles of it, has been crossed in 8 days on a bicycle. With NVD goggles, this can be done at night, and with the bicycle, without any concerns for noise. If you rig up a fairing, and keep your head down, you wont have to worry about wires strung across the road, either.
       
      reynolds, Oct 18, 2018
  2. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Reality check Jim! In a major TEOTWAWKI situation, staying in the city would mean certain death. No electricity, no water on tap, no refuse disposal, no gas cooking. You are open to looters & worse. You can't stop some mob firing your house/apartment building & you can't stop then driving a Mack truck into your living room. Any sensible individual/family would prepare for staying in a minor emergency to leaving/bugging out. They should carry what they can in a vehicle if they have one but also have packs in case they have to ditch the car.
    "there just aren't that many situations where bugging out is going to be your absolute best option". It is pretty obvious & complete common sense that unless it is a major shtf situation you would not be leaving your home, why would you? This forum covers lost survival, surviving in present day conditions, & TEOTWAWKI. But your article comes across as though you are strongly recommending that people stay home in a SHTF situation, regardless of what you actually say. I think you should make it clear, that in a major SHTF situation, there should be no thoughts of staying in the city, no hesitation about leaving. To hesitate could cost lives. This also goes for approaching cyclones. Unless you have a cyclone shelter, get the hell out of there if you have had plenty of warning. You can always return if it changes direction, but it is dangerous to stay in such circumstances.

    Even IF a family were to bug out when the situation was not serious enough to warrant it, where is the harm? Better safe than sorry, they can always return.
    Keith.
     
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  3. Neiltarquin

    Neiltarquin Member
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    I live in the city so in a tight situation, I will bug out.planningbto invest a small farm land near my area. Then I'll start from there
     
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  4. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    i have discussed bugging out and the "golden horde" on forums for many years, I just cannot see it happening in Britain.
    people here are more likely to sit tight and expect someone to come and save them, I mean if they have been paying a mortgage for 10, 15 or 20 years are they just going to up and leave-for good- just because there is no food in the shops or someone has just robbed the local take away or the mobile phone shop??
     
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    1. reynolds
      when there's no power and no water, no fuel with which to stay warm, they'll have no choice but to leave and go seek such things. A bicycle can easily cover 100 miles per night. If you've got Vasoline and a gel seat, you can do so night after night, too. The truly dangerous ones have illegal guns and will leave early, so that they can loot the farms before everyone else does.
       
      reynolds, Oct 18, 2018
  5. Jewelweed

    Jewelweed Member
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    Our home is in a semi-rural area so it's a different situation than people in the city. We have several acres and we're on the water (it's brackish but it could be distilled). We're also set with chickens, rabbits, our garden and supplies. For us, bugging in is definitely preferred.

    The only reasons we'd set out for our bug-out location, which is a cabin on seriously rural acreage bordering state game lands with no other built homes for miles would be if there was some extended crisis situation that made our semi-rural home area unsafe or potentially under water. We can hunker down through a hurricaine in most cases but if multiple hurricanes in a row pound us, going elsewhere might be a better option. We can't find any historic evidence that the house was ever flooded since it was built in the early 1900's but being on the water has it's risks and we can't say for sure that flooding won't ever be an issue. If there is a series of natural disasters and the house is destroyed, perhaps due to tornado, we might head for the bug out location. If there is an attack by sea (unlikely), we're pretty close to the eastern seaboard so bugging out to the cabin farther inland might be a good idea. It's set up too, though not as well as home. If it too was unsafe, I don't know. I'm pretty sure that even with the skills we've worked to learn, it would be more of a struggle than we'd want to be living out of the bug out bags.
     
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    1. reynolds
      it's preferred for everyone, but it's not practical. People will be forced to leave the cities in a very few days, and they will be coming to loot your stuff and kill you if they have to do so. All history says that this will be so.
       
      reynolds, Oct 18, 2018
  6. GS AutoTech

    GS AutoTech Expert Member
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    I feel the decision to bug out would vary greatly depending on the event itself along with your current "Prepped" situation for that event. For instance, we live in a rural area with less population. We have acres to farm, woods to hunt & water we can pump. If a major hurricane popped up, all those things would be useless & we would bug out. In a civil uprising event we would hunker down.
     
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  7. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Sounds like you are already in a good place to be GS.
    Keith.
     
  8. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    because of my location, middle of the English countryside, several hundreds of miles away from any of our large multi cultural cities, most Brit preppers think I have already bugged out.
     
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    1. Keith H.
      Well I suppose you have. I mean your not in a city or a town, so you are in a safe place already. Doesn't mean that you won't have to move if it gets too hot, but that can happen to any of us wherever we go. Let's hope you can safely stay where you are.
      Keith.
       
      Keith H., Jul 17, 2017
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  9. WarHorse52

    WarHorse52 Member
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    If a pandemic hit, I can’t see why I wouldn’t bug out. My bug out location is on 300 acres and a mile off the road with no neighbors around. I believe living in the city in this situation would get you killed! I can understand on other points, but not a pandemic!
     
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  10. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Totally agree, but my opinion stays the same. Staying in a city will get you killed one way or another.
    Keith.
     
  11. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    If you live in or near a MAJOR metropolitan area you will eventually have to bug out. There will just be too many people and too few resources. Then there are the fire and gang issues. The problem is in the timing. If you aren't one of the first out you might be better off trying to ride it out and leave later. If you get caught in the crowd you could easily end up losing everything. When masses pf people get hungry and desperate it is GOING to get ugly. Also when you are part of a mob you are NOT going to be well received by the people in the places that you are trying to get to.

    I've said this before but it bears repeating. Lots of people just can't afford to bug out ahead of time. I understand that. What you need to do is decide now where you want to go and start making plans and connections now. Rent a mini warehouse there and start putting some of your stuff THERE. Go there on vacation and try to make some friends there. Go to church there or go to local fairs and gatherings. Maybe find an older couple that have a place there and see if you can go and help them a little around their place. ANYTHING that will mean that you won't be a total stranger showing up with nothing but the clothes on your back if you just have to run.
     
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  12. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    trouble with bugging out in the middle of a pandemic is probably the very time someone would contract the disease, either leave BEFORE it hits your area or stay put.
     
  13. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I just don't see bugging out as being an option for most people in the UK, its not something that we have had to do in the past, even in WW2 it didn't happen, sure some of the kids were evacuated but they didn't stay away for long and it hasn't happened anytime in the last 70+ years and the modern generation just haven't got that mindset, it just wouldn't occur to them.
    sit tight and wait for someone else to save them that will be their thoughts.
    and again there is this attitude " nowhere is safe in the UK"-which is something I have heard time and time again from non preppers.
     
  14. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    Whether or not you bug out depends on your situation before an emergency or event, what effect the event will have on you and the people around you and also depends on where you intend to bug out to.
    In most situations you will be better off staying put but built up areas and apartment blocks will quickly become uninhabitable as the water goes off and the sewage backs up. Built up areas are a death trap in case of fire, earthquake or civil unrest. Best be out of there before rule of law breaks down but you need a planned destination, somewhere prepared where you know that you'll be welcomed...not just another refugee sleeping on a plastic mattress in a sports centre.
     
  15. Oldguy

    Oldguy Well-Known Member
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    Whether bugging out is the right or wrong thing to do or not most everyone I have talked to thinks bugging out is the only thing to do.
    Sheeple are called sheeple for a reason ! they blindly follow those in front.
    It will only take a few to be seen leaving/bugging out to get others following and it will snowball from there.
    Right or wrong matters not it is the herd instinct that dominates
    All cities are dominated by sheeple, enough said!
     
  16. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    exactly!!!
     
  17. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    yeah, but following them to where? have they a plan or is it just hoping to find food water and shelter, in which case they wont survive for long or for far.
     
  18. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    I think people in the city should leave, I think it is pretty obvious to most members on here that it is going to be too dangerous to live in the city in a major shtf situation. Hell it would get bad enough in a simple blackout for more than just 24 hours! But I don't think many will be in too much of a hurry to leave, the city is their home, all their "stuff" is at home. They have worked hard to maintain their lifestyle. Sheeple or not, I think that many will stay even if they see their neighbours leaving. Out there is an unknown world to them, they are used to their concrete jungle, they feel safe there. It will I think have to get bad before they consider moving, for them it will indeed be a last resort.

    If you are in a small town, then you may be better off staying put, much depends on the town & the attitude of your neighbours. Band together & you should be pretty safe, left alone you will be vulnerable.

    Having somewhere to go is obviously the best, better than just blindly bugging out into the bush if you are city bred as lonewolf has pointed out. People who are used to camping & hunting stand a much better chance in bugging out into the bush, but the more skills you have the better chance you have of survival.

    How many city dwellers own guns or bows do you think? Not many. How many know how to make & use traps? Again not many. Light fires? Have any bush sense at all? Know how to hunt? Let's face it, there are not going to be many survivors for the rest of us to have to worry about, sad but a fact. middle class to upper class city dwellers depend on three things we don't depend on. The government, the police, & modern technology. The demise of these people is not something I want to dwell on, thinking of how many children are not going to make it is very sad.

    I think that the city dwellers know what their chances are when push comes to shove. When they do finally leave; those that can, they will be trying to find help in those already living in the country. They will pack as much food as they have on hand & hopefully some water, & they will keep moving for as long as they can trying to find people like us! I think I will be able to help a few families, but I will have to draw a line somewhere.
    Keith.
     
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  19. Oldguy

    Oldguy Well-Known Member
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    No no plan just the assumption that those up front know something and they will get there share they are entitled to!
     
  20. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    mind you don't fall over all those dead bodies then!!:p
     
  21. TCinNC

    TCinNC Member
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    I have to agree wholeheartedly with JCobb's analysis because once your read carefully what he wrote, none of the other comments here are in hard disagreement with what he said. Instead, everyone seems to agree with him, separated only by the semantics of how they're saying it.

    Summary of key points that he made:
    1. The reality of bugging out is highly situation-specific for each person/family. Assess carefully based on a well defined plan.
    2. Bugging out without a well defined plan makes you a refugee, likely compounded by abandoning resources prematurely.
    3. The most highly romanticized, and highly overrated prepper tool is the BOB. 99.99% of people aren't skilled enough to live off the land, or capable of carrying enough with them in a BOB to offset the skill deficiency.

    That's it, and there's nothing I disagree with!

    A few side notes:
    1. Watch History channel's Alone series if you want a glimpse of life living out of a BOB. Although the contestants are limited in bringing less than what you may carry, they were dropped off at their "BOL". They didn't have to hike there, so they started fresh and with full bellies. I wonder how many on this board would last half as long as most of them?
    2. A writer on another site said that the only way to be sure of reaching your BOL is to live on it NOW. I agree.
    3. Our part-time neighbors evacuated the coast due to hurricane Florence. The wife left in the morning and did 80mph in moderate traffic up Rt. 40. Her husband left two hours later as he had to wait for a serviceman to get a last minute job taken care of before they locked up the house. He ended up in a traffic deadlock on Rt. 40 that literally didn't move for more than 20 minutes. If you're not where you want to be in an emergency, chance eventually overtakes planning in your odds of succeeding.
     
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  22. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    Yes TC, we all seem to agree for the most part...semantics aside we are all in vastly different circumstances. LW and I both live in the more rural parts of the U.K. While Keith H lives a really rural lifestyle in the Aussie bush...I'm guessing you could call that already bugged out so we will almost certainly Shelter In Place (SIP) many of the American members of this forum have also chosen a similar lifestyle or have access to a cabin or retreat but those who still need to live in or near major population centres need to be constantly assessing risks in order to be one step ahead of any threat/situation that might call for them to evacuate. You need to know what the risk is before you can decide on your response though.
     
  23. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I don't think that many people that are seriously considering survival in situations where there is a cultural and system wide collapse that will include no power, tap water, sewage treatment or government assistance wants to stay in a big city. The question is when and how are they going to get out. Lets face it, unless you want to work for yourself the money making opportunities in small towns are pretty grim. I was lucky and managed to make the change but I commuted nearly 90 miles each way each day for several years until I could get my own business up and running. Not everyone has the necessary skills to do something like this and are basically economically trapped in the big cities.

    They will have to be creative and more guarded in their efforts. Basically there will be only two fairly normal opportunities. You will need to either be in the first wave to get out or wait and then walk out later and as Lonewolf commented wade through the bodies. The roads around any major metropolitan area will become impassable FAST!

    The problem that goes with bugging out is that you are limited to what you can carry. A truck can carry a lot but if it gets locked up in a jam you will have to walk away with only what you can carry. Limited resources will make your life hard and your chances of survival less.

    We each will have to weigh our choices. Nobody will have the exact same situation much less the same skill set. What each of us has to do is REALISTICALLY evaluate our options and then start as soon as possible to prepare for that possibility. If you are an old fart like me walking a hundred miles carrying your entire worldly possessions just isn't realistic. If you are young and live in the big city you need to get off your couch now and start walking. Even if you try to be first out the best laid plans don't always work so make sure that your plan B is realistic. Even if you have a place out in the country you might end up having to walk there. Things like EMPs don't give you any real warning!
     
  24. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    While bicycles leave you really vulnerable, as a mode of transport they can move easily through blocked streets and narrow tracks. You can carry twice as much at four times your normal walking speed. They need no petroleum based fuels, move quietly and are EMP proof and simple to maintain because they're such basic mechanical technology. If you're fit enough to use one they're a great back up
     
  25. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I agree about the bicycle. Get one of those bigger tire mountain bikes and you can even make pretty good tracks off road. I am thinking about picking up an old motorcycle in the 250 class from the 60s or 70s time period before computers and rebuilding it. I had one when I was a kid and it got about a hundred miles per gallon of gas and would go almost anywhere on or off road. They were called scramblers back then and were legal on the road and still ok for light off roading.
     
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  26. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    the trouble with motorcycles, and I am a life long biker, especially the smaller and off road types is that a lot were 2 stroke and you can hear them coming for miles!
    mountain bikes are a bit heavy and a bit lumpy for your ordinary person, a standard bike will go off road quite well provided you aren't crashing off mountains but just using them as a beast of burden.
     
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  27. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    That is what I liked about my old Scrambler. It was a 4 stroke twin that got 114 miles to the gallon. It was no louder than any small street motorcycle. I'm not so enamored with 2 cycle dirt bikes for this sort of thing. I want it to be more for traveling than dirt biking.

    We have a lot of sand and dirt roads so the thin tires 10 speed bikes just won't go. I didn't mean these new super fat bob tires, just the old style tires and a little heavier frame for carrying a load. I had a bicycle kind of like this when I was a kid. With saddle baskets I used to load it up and go camping and fishing on it. My Bed roll would be tied to the handlebars , my fishing stuff and some of the heavier things in the baskets then my camping gear in a backpack I was off and running.
     
  28. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    A thought about using a motorcycle as a bug-out vehicle: Might I suggest forming a pack of people to get out of where you are. A lone person on a bike is going to get knocked-off that bike or shotgunned off the bike. Bikes will be valuable and stranded people are going to get way past desperate.

    A crew of armed bikers is less likely to come under attack.

    Another thought: One may have to bug in for a few days before bugging out. If one attempts to get ahead of the first wave of people running away, good luck. And note that the first wave of people are going to be running on adrenaline, certainly not intelligence.

    If one has to get out, one may fair better to prep to survive the initial craziness, then pick your route from among the list of routes you are now scouting in these pre-SHTF days. Most of the routes you have scouted will have turned into burned car lots and killing fields, let's face it.

    I am one to attempt to find mountain logging roads and such that will get me across ridges of mountains or through rural areas -- SERIOUS alternate routes. Let me tell you, it is difficult to impossible to find safe passages that will accommodate a vehicle. A motorcycle would indeed be of help, but don't do it alone. Homey knows mountains, rural, rural people, Homey knows what rural folk think about outsiders -- be very, very careful. Think you can "make friends" post-SHTF, yeah sure.
     
  29. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    most major roads in the UK will be under the control of government forces, there is a plan to ban all civilian traffic from such roads, that's cars, motorcycles, bicycles and even pedestrians, anyone flaunting this order will be arrested and put in a holding area.
    anyone who wants to leave a big city would need to find an alternative route, that's NOW not after some event has already happened, get a map of that route, preferably routes plural, sat nav(gps) probably wont work after SHTF nor will your mobile.
    get off the roads as soon as you are out of the city limits, go across country using footpaths and country lanes, roads are for soldiers and looters.
     
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  30. poltiregist

    poltiregist Active Member
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    we have seen in the past where starving , desperate people in high populated areas during a crises have turned to cannibalism. I would not recommend staying in a city for long if you do not want to be what is on the menu
     
  31. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    As far as I've been able to find by researching this subject very few of the acts of modern cannibalism have taken place in a built up area and those that did were nothing to do with starvation events, much more like a kind of act of perversion or mental illness committed by a single offender. The notorious Donner party and UAF flight 571 incidents took place in isolation, not a city...if you know of other relevant incidents I would be interested to read about them.
     
  32. poltiregist

    poltiregist Active Member
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    during world war two germany layed siege to a Russian city . Some in the city turned to cannibalism. some reports of selling human body parts for food. I really didn,t want to get into these specifics , but the question was asked. I do not condemn or judge what these people did.
     
  33. Oldguy

    Oldguy Well-Known Member
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    Most countries plan on maintaining control in Apocalyptic events and have laws to suit but the reality is vastly different.
    For a local event it may be so but for a country wide event there are just not enough people in .gov pay to do it SIMPLE AS THAT.
    One .gov employee for about three hundred people minus about 30% for those unsuitable to the duties and it blows out to 500 to 1, Law and order is not going to be maintained for long at that rate.
    After a week .gov will be controlling only essential stuff and the mass's will run wild.
    Checkpoints other than to .gov stuff will not exist in reality, the military mostly will not control the roads or anything else not deemed essential for that matter.
    Police emergency numbers will be overloaded, response times will be in days/weeks if at all, getting an ambulance will be like winning the lotto and all the bad guys will quickly realise anything go's
    If you or yours are targeted by said bad guys there will be no cavalry to come to your aide you will be on your own.
     
  34. poltiregist

    poltiregist Active Member
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    back to the cannibal thing you can look up the siege of Stalingrad. it may be hard to find out about the cannibalism part simply because a lot of people do not want to talk about it.
     
  35. poltiregist

    poltiregist Active Member
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    oldguy you are right , the government employees will rapidly disappear to look after their own familes survival . Even if they did receive a pay check, it would be less useful than one pound of dried beans.
     
  36. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    People who are disciplined will not "run wild". Problem is, most people do poorly in the department of self discipline -- this being especially true in cities.

    Seek out NOW places where, in your estimation, the people rank high in self-sufficiency; where people are of a disciplined nature.

    Again, avoid densely populated urban areas. Keep in mind, also, that some rural areas are culturally and genetically inbred. Avoid such rural areas.

    Know this as a fact, many small communities put to the most horrific of tests, will pull together and function even better as a community. History is a witness to this.

    Do NOT expect urban populations to pull together. The dank air of spiritual death hangs over large cities even in the best of times. Given a certain degree of stress, they will panic and stampede. Cattle are cattle.
     
  37. poltiregist

    poltiregist Active Member
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    oldguy you have a lot more faith in government than I do.
     
  38. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    Who said anything about government?!

    I'm talking about the people's behavior. Mature people need little, if any, governance. Listen, my people operated outside of government, the only exception being when it came time to pay-off the cops and the state congressmen.
     
  39. poltiregist

    poltiregist Active Member
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    good advice OldGeezer but would like to add, find the area you described and buy a spot there . You will need a reasonable natural water source.
     
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  40. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    When my people settled land up in the hollars, the first thing one would do is look for a spring shooting water out from the mountain's cracked boulders. One would then drive a big iron pipe back in there to get a steady stream out the pipe. The cabin's cistern was begun as the catch for this pure water. Around and off the cistern, the kitchen was built and out from the kitchen was built the rest of the cabin home. These homes were built uphill from the creek-bed of the hollar, so as to avoid a flooding when the spring thaw and rains came. Spring wash-outs can easily turn a creek into a mighty and hellish river. The ignorant who built too close to the wash were often washed away -- natural selection writ large.

    Work with Mother Nature or lose big.
     
  41. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
      375/460

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    The problem with urban environments now is that you have subdivisions but not neighborhoods. People hardly know the people that live around them. When I was a kid Mothers stayed at home and kids did to. We played together and out Moms all knew each-other. It was a little like having a dozen Moms watching over you all the time. Now all the women work, the kids are stuck in daycare which is basically just warehousing them. You don't have time to get to know the neighbors and the poor kids don't really have any full time Mother at all. There is nothing to pull people together any more. There is no "home" because there is no homemaker.
     
  42. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    after the first year post SHTF the mortality rate will be about 90%(watch the suicide rate rocket in that time), this will leave the UK population the same as it was in the mid 18th century just as the industrial revolution was starting, around 6 million people, that might seem a lot but they weren't exactly falling over each other back then and nor will we.
    I doubt the government will be able to control much of the country after a couple of months, (but they could cause problems for people who do want to evacuate in that time) they may want to keep control of London which is their power base, but this is probably all if even that is possible, but without imports of food and other supplies from Europe and the rest of the world (the UK imports about 40% of its food) the population will decrease due to lack of food, clean water, and disease will be rife, I have always said disease will be the main killer in a post SHTF environment and will kill more people than people will.
    the cause of SHTF is pretty much irrelevant, its how we survive the aftermath which is the important thing.
     
  43. Oldguy

    Oldguy Well-Known Member
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    If one can survive the die off and the place is not too polluted ye olde England may eventually resurface as at that population level it could feed itself ok!
     
  44. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    yes, given the land acreage available we could feed about 25% of the current population self sufficiently, that's about 16million not the current 65million, that total would be a lot less though without pesticides and fertilisers all of which are imported as a lot of the land is not used traditionally but is mono cropped the same crop grown in the same field year on year on year, this leaves the ground infertile without the use of said fertilisers and pesticides and it would take years to bring this land back into productive use.
     
    Ystranc likes this.
  45. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    Yes Stalingrad, good point, both sides were reduced to cannibalism on that occasion. There is a certain irony in the fact that the battle took place over the canteen building of the Red October Tractor factory.
     
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