Civil War 2 In America --- Who Wins

Discussion in 'The Apocalypse' started by TMT Tactical, Jun 22, 2019.

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  1. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Is the second civil war in America coming? What cold start it? Who will start it? Who wins and why.

    This YT video does a reasonable job of dissecting the possible cause and the possible outcome. The video is 52 minutes long but I think well worth the time investment.

     
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  2. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Bump start LOL
     
  3. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    I know exactly who will win. Those deep in the bush, surrounded with abundant fish-fowl-game, all free, and no competition for harvesting, and everything they need for years of self-support.

    Who will loose........easy, those who are sucked into the civil war, or live any place near the war theater.
    Suggested reading: "FOR WHOM The BELL TOLLS"
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
  4. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    No one will win.
    Even those "in the bush" are depending on others every day.
     
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  5. Caribou

    Caribou Expert Member
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    An interesting video that got me to thinking. If you attacked the grid by taking out one tower on every major transmission line coming into LA, Frisco, Portland, Seattle, and San Diego you would incapacitate the left along the Pacific Coast. Similar actions along the Atlantic Coast major cities, Chicago, et al. Attacks on the transmission lines would be repairable, with time, and relatively inexpensively. At least lest costly than the major transformers.

    Taking out transmission towers would be relatively easy to replace but would still take months. This would affect many conservatives but these are the liberal centres and they would be decimated. Most couldn't get out of the area even if they had a full tank of fuel and most don't.

    Interestingly these are the centres that would be attacked by a foreign government or terrorist organisation. If we are attacked it is the liberals who will take the brunt of the attack.
     
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  6. Caribou

    Caribou Expert Member
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    How much time have you spent in the bush? I'm not talking about some campground but in remote places that take a week or more of hiking to get there. I'm talking about places where if you are left by a plane you don't get out till the next plane arrives.
     
  7. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    None.

    Nether has anyone here I know of that didn't take lots of supplies with them that they acquired elsewhere.

    But that has nothing to do with a hypothetical "civil war".
     
  8. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    You are a classic "TROLL".......by your own admission you have zero concept of what you are posting about. And yet you "TROLL" on and on vomiting your opinion, as if you had the slightest idea what bush Alaska is like.


    .
     
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  9. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    I really tried to find fault or overly optimistic projections in the video but could not. If you look at Oregon, you can already see the problem. The state GOP senators have refused to attend the state congressional session and the left cannot pass their carbon tax bill, because they don't have enough members for a quorum. The Democratic governor is sending state police to round up the missing senators.
     
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  10. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    Would this civil war ever even get started? As more and more states decriminalize marijuana the initiative get smaller and smaller. If it did get started, would the government simply squash it immediately as it flared here and there and no one would know as they would be hush hush about any flareups? How would everyone find out that it had begun with no free press left to publicize it?
     
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  11. Caribou

    Caribou Expert Member
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    None.

    Nether has anyone here I know of that didn't take lots of supplies with them that they acquired elsewhere.

    But that has nothing to do with a hypothetical "civil war".


    Perhaps it doesn't have anything to do with war, then again perhaps it does, but when you expound on how others survive in the wilderness I was wondering about your expertise to make such a claim.

    I know several people that could head off into the woods with a backpack and a rifle and come back a year later. I couldn't survive in the woods but if you put me along the shore back home I could thrive. We had an expression, "when the tide goes out the table is set." I know of two people here that could thrive in the woods and others that I strongly suspect would also. Don't underestimate the skills of others.
     
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  12. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    I don't see much chance of civil war in America. I could see extreme destruction of public infrastructure property, but this would be more of rebellion. If they actually crossed the line, with national firearms registration or controls, I could see a widespread violent reaction. I think Matt Bracken hit it about perfect with his trilogy, "Enemies Foreign and Domestic "



    .
     
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  13. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    I think the title of my post is a bit misleading. I don't see it starting as a civil war but as a rebellion from the Liberals draconian laws and their high taxes. They will over step their bounds and try for a gun confiscation. The have to disarm the American public to stay in power. Once they go to far, then it will advance from rebellion, into civil war. The path is already laid out. They will increase the number of Supreme Court Judges until they have Super majority of Liberal Judges, say a dozen Ruth Ginsberg. Then they can pass any law they want and have it backed up by the Supreme Court. Once they get the border open, all the illegals get to vote and the politicians set the table for the 'Free Lunch"Crowd, can anybody see this not leading to a rebellion?

    Too many patriotic American still exist and are raising their children to be American patriots. I can't see my sons or my grandchildren being a willing part of the Socialist America. Not nation can defeat their own armed people.
     
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  14. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    https://www.wsj.com/articles/anarchy-breaks-out-in-portland-with-the-mayors-blessing-1533331454


    Good morning TMT Tactical,

    It started earlier and was worse.

    The above link presents a view of situation. A "mob" ( protesters?) "surrounded ICE offices in southwest Portland... ... "the police? ... Ordered away by ... Mayor". [ 28 June 2018] "...federal police mobilized from out of state finally moved to reopen the office".

    Fortunately, Portland is minor in the scheme of continuity of government (COG). Worries must be reserved for the bigger dangers.
     
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  15. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Caribou,

    Don't want to row too far off the MSF.com purpose so hoping my reply relates in overall picture. I've already posted some scribblings here about "critical infrastructure" and "Continuity of Government" (COG).

    The "grid" can be seen as a sheet of X-Y graph paper. Some of the squares are already "hardened" and/or "off-grid" already. San Diego, Coronado, North Island areas aren't populated by scary-cat Dagwood Bumsteads. An "et cetra" applies to other areas of the Pacific Coast.

    The critical transmission towers are "hardened". No one - or group - will, with ease, close transmission towers with lines to "Navy Norfolk". Quantico, Virginia is home to America's Praetorian Guard. It's been expanded and hardened and off-grid capable.

    Ref repairing transmission lines, relatively inexpensively, - accepting the tempering "less costly .. major transformers";

    I've never worked the power-lines portfolios (less oil pipelines) but did work airports. A one hour delay for the arrival of emergency engineer crews ripples to a 24 hour delay to airport operations. A 4-5 hour delay coincides with a newly arriving weather front. Stringing and splicing wires is "relatively" inexpensive. It's the down-stream effects having the big ticket costs. The lack of a horse shoe nail and the lost kingdom because of inadequate preparedness - inadequate inventory levels and too few of emergency crews ...... ...... ...... Add a complacent and lazy populace in a socialist mercantile environment ...

    and maybe the Club of Rome - "We are running out of food ... The sky is falling" - wins. We will be the waiters and waitresses at their banquets that we must fund.

    ... Unless preparedness gets priority.
     
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  16. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    The Governor in Oregon has sent the State Police out to try to bring the GOP back to the table by force so they can vote their climate change legislation into law. It seems this has taken some vio0lent rhetoric with "Republican Sen. Brian Boquist responded by telling state police to “send bachelors and come heavily armed” if they come and get him.

    "RIght-wing groups posted their support for the 12 rebel Republicans on Friday, including one group -- the Oregon Three Percenters -- who joined in an armed takeover of a wildlife refuge in 2016."

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/or...sible-militia-threat-after-republican-walkout
     
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  17. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    The plan to destroy the power grid would certainly cause more of the delusional hoard to die than the patriots . Estimate that ninety percent of the population would be dead in twelve months is one estimate . I saw another estimate where ninety percent would be dead in six months . I suppose mostly preppers would be left . The survivors would probably be LIBERATED by some foreign power and made their subjects . Nobody wins but the country seizing control .
     
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  18. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    12months? 6months? hell, if the power grid went down in the UK I don't see most of the population surviving more than a month maybe two. all they know revolves around the electric grid, that goes down everything stops.
     
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  19. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    I think the 90% estimate is way too high. I could see a die off but doubtful that high. I could see a foreign power trying to take advantage of the situation but it is very possible that the problems could spread world wide rather than simply stay in America. Once our aid is removed from other countries there could easily be problems elsewhere too.
     
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  20. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    the 90% isn't high enough, when most people rely on the system for their daily survival(although they probably don't see it as such) once that system collapses their mortality comes into question. without skills or knowledge of how to survive without the supply chain their time on earth is limited.
     
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  21. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    What I said is simply the truth.
    I'm sorry that reality upsets you, but it doesn't change the facts in any way.
     
  22. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    Did they build the rifle?

    Did they manufacture the backpack and all the other equipment?
    If not, they are "depending on someone else" for their survival.

    "Knowing several people" out of the 7 billion on the planet doesn't really change what I stated.

    I never said a word about anyone's "skills".

    One doesn't need to be "in the bush" to have those.
    Skills aren't geographic.

    A real "fisherman" can catch fish anywhere.
    Hunters use the same basic skills no matter where they are or what they hunt.

    You're looking for hidden meanings instead of focusing on what I really said.

    It really doesn't matter though, because there's not going to be any civil war in the US as long as most people have food to eat and internet access. You couldn't even get enough people to agree on what they are fighting about.

    "Civil War" is just a trending buzz phrase on the internet now.
    It's entertaining speculation at best.
     
  23. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    IBME and Caribou I briefly took Snyper off my ignore list to see if he was doing any better "apparently not " I will suggest putting him on your ignore list . Most of the other members already have . He seeks out people that have not put him on the ignore list and attacks them . I really don't understand why our moderators tolerate this .
     
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  24. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Master Survivalist
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  25. watcherchris

    watcherchris Master Survivalist
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    I have not put Snyper on my ignore list. I don't even know how to use the ignore function...nor these symbols...or emotes ..or whatever they are called.

    I actually agree with some of what Snyper stated....no problem.



    By Snyper.....

    No ...not many of us are gunsmiths...though I own two 1903 Springfield's in caliber 30.06. One of them is a heavy barreled rifle..and very very accurate if you can hold her Good and Tight.

    I fitted up the stock to this heavy barreled rifle...as it did not come with a stock.

    Although...the stock/factory 1903 Springfield is a pretty darned good shooter from the factory...in good condition.

    Parts.....

    Also why I own three SKS rifles. Parts.

    Also why I taught myself to reload 7.62 x 39 mm ammunition...though lots of steel cased ammo to be found in this calibration. ..but most of the steel cased ammo is Berdan Primed..not Boxer primed.
    I have put back boxer primed brass in this specific calibration.

    Also why I learned to make 7.7mm Japanese Arisaka ammo from 30.06 brass..

    Also learned to make .308 Winchester brass from 30.06 brass. Why I also learned to make .243 brass from .308 brass and even from 30.06 brass by the route of .308 Winchester brass.

    Taught myself also to make 7mm TCU ammo from .223 or 5.56 x 45 mm brass.


    If there is a significant die off in this country or even other nations....clothes and such will not be difficult to find.

    So too firearms in nations allowed to have them.

    I am eventually looking to get a set of crown tools to rework the crowns on certain rifles....but no ..I am not a gunsmith.
    I am an Outside Machinist by trade...


    Thanks,
    Watcherchris

    Not an Ishmaelite.
     
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  26. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    There is no need to have a majority of Americans to support a rebellion. All it takes is a very small percentage of Americans to get pushed past the breaking point. Since the left wants and is driving to have a socialist government, then I believe the needed numbers will be there. Right now the conservative and patriots are fighting a holding action to prevent that outcome. Once is becomes apparent that they have lost the ability to peacefully stop the socialist, then there is only one alternative available. This will not be a race war, it will be about the freedom of the people, that is and will be the rally cry. Look back to the revolutionary war, taxation without representation. The Democrats will tax us to death and we will not be able to vote them out.
     
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  27. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    The next civil war in America will be caused by the same thing that caused the first civil war. The federal government will again try to destroy the United STATES of America and establish the Republic of America where the states lose all their rights of self-determination and be ruled by an elite Washington based government with total authority. Lincoln was the first elected Republican president whose declared intention was the establishment of the republic.

    If Washington decides that they are going to try and take the guns and remove state rights, Texas at least will pull out. There have been signs for a long time that at some level we are preparing for that possibility. We are in the process of creating a currency that will be gold and silver based. We could easily and almost instantly field a military of well-armed people of in excess of 7 million to repel invaders.

    Indications are that if this were to happen that first off a lot of people from elsewhere will come to Texas just as they did when Texas declared independence from Mexico and that several other states would join us. The founding fathers had very real reasons for establishing a Union rather than a Republic. It was their hope and intention to avoid the endless wars that they had left behind in Europe by having a unified country that still offered maximum individual freedom for both the individual person and the states.

    As is now more obvious than ever, there is a MASSIVE difference between people that live in California, New York, and Texas. A Union allows that difference where a Republic wouldn't. Those of us that value our freedom are also very willing to fight for it. As has often been noted, the ree of Freedom must be regularly watered with the blood of patriots. Look into the US military and figure out who those patriots are and where they come from.
     
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  28. watcherchris

    watcherchris Master Survivalist
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    Not quite true Texdanm...

    Read Article 4 section 4 of the Constitution...

    I agree with states rights....and am aware that this has been a struggle since day one...an overreaching federal government.
    I am well aware of what the founders were jealously guarding against ..in seeking "Limited Government."
    I am in agreement with the Founders on "Limited Government."

    But am also aware of what it says in Article 4 section 4 of the Constitution.


    Notice also that it does not say Democracy....but Republican....representative...form of government.

    Democracy is clearly becoming a sham..a shakedown interested in only catering to special interest groups for votes/power..."Victim Class."
    All others need not apply...but only pay up. Ishmaelites run wild..


    My Non Ishmaelite .02,

    Watcherchris
     
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  29. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Read your own quote. It guarantees each STATE a republican government as a part of the Union. what that was about was that all of the STATES were required to have an elected representative form of government within the UNION. No state could, for example, be a monarchy. As I originally said, the intended purpose was to protect the individual states from an oppressive central government by allowing each STATE to be a mostly independent Republic.

    Take that away and just as in Europe, war is an inevitable result. Given time I think that a civil war is an unavoidable inevitability. In the end, a Republic as is the seeming intention of both parties now would be little different from a Monarchy with all the power in the hands of a very select few powerful families. you would get to vote...on the people that THEY put up for you to vote on. The little fat boy in North Korea is elected regularly. SO WHAT? Does that make them a free people?

    The union allows people to live mostly as they wish. If you like being robbed and live where criminals rule and have most of the rights and weapons then that is your right and you can move to California. If you prefer to be well armed and live with very little to fear then move to Texas. In between is a panorama of different levels and differences. In the end, though a person can go and find a place that suits them if they want to. If this is taken away nobody is going to be happy for long and the Republic of America will be short-lived. The founding fathers were brilliant in their design but ever since the idiots have been slowly eroding it away.

    Look at it like this. I ASSURE you that most Texans are willing to fight for our right to defend ourselves. How many people in California do you think are willing to fight to defend their right to not be allowed to defend themselves???
     
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  30. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    Isn't that exactly what you're doing now?

    Take an honest look at who is doing the name calling and actual "attacking".

    Then put me back on ignore if you don't like what I said. :)

    I don't understand either since name calling is definitely against the rules.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2019
  31. Caribou

    Caribou Expert Member
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    Yawn!
     
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  32. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Add an extra yawn for me.
     
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  33. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    Yeah, reality is boring compared to fantasy. ;)
     
  34. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    It doesn't matter who starts it or why. NOBODY wins. Some lose more than others. We should have learned from the horrors of the Civil War. I don't want to call it the first. I pray to God it is the only. We should never even consider going through that again.
     
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  35. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Master Survivalist
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    OTOH, if we don't stand up soon there will be nothing left to save. There are worse things than war. Not many, but life as a slave is certainly one of them.
     
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  36. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    I agree. Stand up now, and work to correct what you think is wrong. Don't let it get to the point of armed conflict. Find good candidates, and work to get them elected. When they make promises hold their feet to the fire. If they renege get rid of them. How do all of these corrupt POS stay in office? There are approx. 207 million eligible voters in the U.S. Only 150 million are registered, and only 137 million voted in the last Presidential Election.

    When voters are apathetic this is what you end up with.
     
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  37. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Master Survivalist
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    We tried that with Trump. The "2 party"(really the uniparty) system does not work. They took the jury box from us. The soap box isn't working. The ballot box just failed. Only one box left to try. I don't want war. At this point, the best solution is a divorce and split the assets 50-50. The leftists aren't going to let us do that either. So, do we fight or continue to let the pot boil until, through inaction, we find ourselves enslaved?
     
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  38. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    I think the safest chance to remedy this situation may be past. If Jeff Sessions would have begun bringing charges against every person in Government or even a couple of the highest level criminals like Hillary Clinton, John Brennan, James Clapper, James Comey or any of the elected officials who we all know are complicit in treason like John McCain, Nancy Pelosi, or some of the others then we would see immediate results in the way of resignations and changes in behavior. However because the status Quo has been carried through this administration and not one treasonous snake has been brought up on charges then I do not see any change forthcoming.
    Hang a couple as an example and the leopards will loose their spots!
     
  39. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Justice should be equally applied to all. The poor should not be treated differently and the rich and powerful should not be allowed to buy their way out of trouble. Hillery wasn't a new trick. Ted Kennedy murdered a woman and walked without even being looked at. At the very least he was drunk and a sorry coward.
     
  40. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    I am hoping that President Trump let's loose the Dogs of justice in the beginning of his second term. The first term spent finding where all the corruption is and second term removing the corruption. He is our last chance before we have to turn to the ammo box. Once the socialist get control again, they will spend whatever is needed to keep control. Atlas shrugged in the making, without the hidden valley. There are many types of bondage and they don't all involve chains. I do not want a civil war but I don't want my grandchildren living in VZ-USA either.
     
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  41. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    President Trump is going to need to make some drastic changes in areas like illegal immigration and vote fraud in order to be re-elected. As it stands right now I doubt he can be re-elected if things are left like they are before the election takes place. The way elections are handled in California and the licensing of illegals in states like New York, Washington State and other places almost insures there will not be a fair election this go around.

    As I've said before...If Donald J. Trump is re-elected we will know after the election if he is a true patriot or has scammed the conservative base by his actions. If He is a patriot, May God Bless him If he is a scam he will need God to save him because he will be through in this country as far as business goes.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
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  42. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Last Outlaw,

    Recommend you use a much longer time line. As of now, per my guess, the investigations into the "de-masking" of the FISC Court warrants "automatically" collects some much-needed votes in both the House and the Senate. This is "horse-trading" at its best !
     
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  43. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    Except for hostile foreign powers like China and Russia.....they would profit from having America in turmoil.
     
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  44. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    California is giving free medical to illegal aliens. They are already bankrupt. Eventually, there is going to be an end to people in other states paying for THEIR stupidity. I think that we should build a wall...around the sanctuary cities and then just throw illegal aliens over the wall to them. If they want them we should let them have them...but not pay to support them in a fashion better than millions of hardworking Americans. Things like this are a festering wound in our country and eventually, it will either be fixed or it will kill the nation.
     
  45. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    In regards to the "Left Coast", the piper always has to be paid. They keep kicking the can down the street but more and more of their tax payers are leaving. Limiting their federal tax write off, hurt them big time. They must keep spending to stay in office and to spend they must increase taxes. They are quickly headed to becoming the VZ-CA and Oregon and Washington are in hot pursuit.
     
  46. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    And their tax payers, who by the way voted these liberals into office who keep raising their taxes...are moving to Texas because the taxes are low. Then they continue voting liberals into office who again begin raising taxes. The same thing is happening in Florida with new liberal residents who move there for lower taxes from New York.
     
  47. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    America's urban areas are metastatic cancers.

    America's urban areas need to be destroyed.

    Hopefully, true Americans will be awakened.

    Hopefully, the U.S. Constitution will be dusted-off.
     
  48. watcherchris

    watcherchris Master Survivalist
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    There is a huge problem with our MSM here in America. The MSM have woefully misrepresented the character of the American people over to their " Fake and Phony " default settings.

    To me this is one arena where change...even Civil War needs to start...with the MSM. Then Public education for the Next Generations.

    To me the MSM and Public Education have become social/political tools to misrepresent the American People and our character...and thus only to support a phony two party system....which to me is in essence a Concealed one party system.

    To me this is also why urban areas are become metastatic cancers. Too much television and movie education going on there...ie..the blame game..on the public purse.


    My non Ishmaelite .02,
    Watcherchris
     
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  49. watcherchris

    watcherchris Master Survivalist
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    TexDanm,

    Been thinking about this..



    Monarchy/Feudalism ....absolute power....divine right of kings....was the very form of government the founders where trying to prevent across this land. For the founders knew of the abuses of Feudal systems historically.

    That some men are more suited to rule others by bloodlines..by heritage..by education ..by enlightenment...by Illumination...by royalty...by Priesthood...backing royalty...church and state together.

    Agree...in that as originally founded the states were to have more power than the central government...the central government was to be limited...."Limited Government."

    And this has been the struggle since day one. Even Samuel Adams, the second President, was working to get more power to the central government over the states and our Liberties...

    Watcherchris
    Not an Ishmaelite.
     
  50. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Master Survivalist
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    Actually, it started before Adams with Alexander Hamilton. He wanted the fedcoats to assume the state's debts so that the feds would have more control., he set up the first central bank in the US and then he also instituted the first "income tax" which led to the first ever use of federal troops against Americans who refused to pay that tax. Repealing that tax was one of Jefferson's first actions after he was elected.
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
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