Combat Tactics For The Newbie

Discussion in 'General Q&A' started by randyt, Sep 29, 2019.

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  1. randyt

    randyt Master Survivalist
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    A while ago I was watching a cop show on the tv. It showed some footage of a gang member (not mafia but ghetto gangster) employing some combat tactics. It seems that there are many gang members joining the service and bringing those skills back home. The gang member I mentioned had been in the marine corps.

    I got to wondering, I wonder a lot about many things, it's a habit of mine. Anyhoo in a teotwawki event, everything goes kaput, not a hurricane or heavy thunderstorm. How does a newbie learn to identify and employ combat tactics?
     
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  2. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Master Survivalist
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    Train now. There are plenty of classes teaching a wide variety of skills. Damn sure doesn't make me a marine though. Just an old squid with enough knowledge to be dangerous.........to myself lol
     
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  3. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
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    Training & repetitive practice with desensitization drill, but that just me, your requirement might be different from me.
     
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  4. randyt

    randyt Master Survivalist
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    I have to agree on the train now, that goes with any skill.
     
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  5. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Learn to use BOTH hands. That will go a long way in defensive using defensive tactics. You don't have to be able to throw a football with either hand but being able to do work with both hands or shoot with both hands will help, big time.
     
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  6. Dalewick

    Dalewick Expert Member
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    Randy, Are you looking for training or to train yourself? How serious are you?

    I will say, there is no civilian path that leads to military combat training or experience. With that said, you can be far more prepared than the majority of sheep.

    Dale
     
  7. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Randy,

    Ref: "learn to identify and employ";

    The standard methods govern: read, attend seminars, attend classes, talk to the knowledgeable,.... Using the newly-learned material means practice both mental and physical. Try something learned while wearing a soaken wet textile rain coat, with a hooded sweatshirt or large, warm hat that limits hearing and peripheral vision.

    From the US Army Field Manual titled "Combatives" (formerly "Hand To Hand Combat"):

    FUNDAMENTAL - General
    " Five fundamentals are used as a guide in learning hand-to-hand combat. The fundamentals are: making full use of any available weapon, attacking aggressively by using your maximum strength against your enemy's weakest point; maintaining your balance while knocking your opponent off balance; using an opponent's momentum to your advantage; ... ... ... ... ...
    and attaining speed through constant practice".

    From an Insurance Company manual on KHI - Kidnapping and Hostage Insurance:

    Activity Risk

    Committee Meeting at the office. Risk is Ambush while to or from, bomb explosion in conference room, armed assault in office, harassment during meeting. (Manual develops actual responses)

    Other books discussing thread's question:

    "Operating During Strikes"
    "Defensive Driving"
    "Violence At Sea" - Some merchant mariners receive this type of training and practice no less so than how to do the traditional job stuff.

    Many courses out there. I took a course and my personal question to instructor was used for entire class. If one wears glasses, what is "best practice" if time permits, in re glasses ?
     
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  8. randyt

    randyt Master Survivalist
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    I was wondering in general. In the show I mentioned they pointed out tactics used. With combat training some of these gangs may not be the push over some surmise. It was mentioned in the show that some of these gang members join the service specifically for the training to bring back. That got me thinking what can a average joe do to prepare. It may be good to be able to anticipate movements. It would not be the same as a war zone, I wouldn't think.

    Firearms training is available through many places. Gunsite comes to mind.

    I'm not really concerned much, I live a fair distance from a city of any size but I think about the possibilities of different scenarios.
     
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  9. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
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    Wear any ballistic eye wear that is UPLC compatible (example, Revision® Sawfly, ESS Crosshair™, Wiley X® WX™ Vapor)
     
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  10. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good afternoon Varuna,

    Appreciate info.
     
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  11. Oldguy

    Oldguy Master Survivalist
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    This is brain training so
    Learn from books
    Do imaginary walk throughs where ever you go and assess later!

    Then hope one never needs it for real
     
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  12. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Master Survivalist
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    Have a plan to kill everyone you see and a way to escape everywhere you go. Isn't that what they say?
     
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  13. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    hello, hello, who let Rambo out of his cage again??:rolleyes:
     
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  14. Brownbear

    Brownbear Expert Member
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    To help me understand this is a little better. We, as non military personnel, should expect to engage in combat to keep us safe? Even if we train comprehensively, I do not see how any of us would be able to face down an experienced and "up to date" trained military combatant (and let's face it they have a better chance of survival than most if TSHTF). Is it not better to learn evasion techniques to stay alive instead?
     
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  15. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    :)
     
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  16. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
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    Your spot on :cool:
     
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  17. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
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    Did someone mention Rambo?



    I'm waiting for the BluRay release though
     
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  18. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I wouldn't put too much faith in anything you see on a tv show or in a movie, much of it is fantasy.
    I like the Mad Max films but I don't base my survival plans on it.
    SHTF will be like nothing you have ever seen or experienced before and that includes any combat experience.
    after all at some point all wars cease, SHTF will be ongoing and possibly a permanent lifestyle.
     
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  19. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    https://www.cdc.gov/media/spokesperson/index.html


    Good afternoon Lone Wolf,

    Ref ... nothing experienced ... that includes any combat experience";

    Completely agree ! Forget the main battle tanks, the flying machines, the BDUs on soldiers. The above link has pictures of the new generals for what's pending - at least what I think is pending. I hope I'm wrong.
     
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  20. Dalewick

    Dalewick Expert Member
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    Randy, Gang bangers have been slipping guys into the military services since before I served . They do it for several reasons including learning tactics (mostly for gang wars and criminal activities), stealing military weapons and goods, plus increasing they efficiency at smuggling.

    A number of gang members that enlist, embrace the military lifestyle and patriotism and never return to the gang lifestyle.

    If your interested in military tactics that would be useful to a prepper, study small unit tactics. Primarily as it pertains to Rangers, Long range reconnaissance units, Special Forces (Green Berets), Marine Raiders or Reconnaissance and Navy Seals. Study team tactics, movements, SOP's (Standard Operating Procedures), Action drills, etc. Weapons and gears are easy to learn. Skills allow you to use any weapons platform to complete you mission. Staying alive.
     
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  21. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    I agree running and hiding probably will increase your chance of surviving , That however goes against my nature . I may die but would prefer dying fighting my enemy than to live knowing I ran away and let them have my survival retreat .
     
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  22. Dalewick

    Dalewick Expert Member
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    Actual "Combat Experience" covers a lot more than fire fights (what most consider combat) as that usually only covers about 2 - 5% of combat experience. A lot of time in "combat" is all of the mind numbing BS (patrols, reconnaissance, OP/LP, briefings, de-briefings, maintenance, etc. etc.) that goes along with performing you job, especially if that job is infantry. Often for infantry the 95 to 98% of the time includes learning to live more like animals than men. Much has changed since I walked in the mud, so I won't get into that.

    I consider movies and TV entertainment. Nothing more. Definitely nothing to learn from.

    Much of a individuals perception on the 2 - 5% of actual fire fights, depends heavily on Murphy's Law's, and Murphy was an A__hole!

    Just my opinion.

    Dale
     
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  23. Brownbear

    Brownbear Expert Member
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    That would depend on the situation at the time. I favour a more mobile solution. A specific retreat per se, if you are implying a fixed (fortified?) base, may not go well. Historically most siege situations do not end well for the defenders. Whilst attrition rates are very high for siege attackers (or urban clearance) the attackers always have time on their side and almost invariably triumph.

    I feel it is better to have a plan B, which would include leaving. There is no shame in sensible evasion to survive.
     
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  24. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    in a siege event all the attackers have to do is sit and wait for those inside to run out of food and water. then they are screwed.
     
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  25. Brownbear

    Brownbear Expert Member
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    Absolutely - there are very few examples of siege defenders winning the day (the main example is Stalingrad, which wasn't actually a siege per se as the defenders were able to pour men and provisions in every night).
     
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  26. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    if you look at history and some of the castle sieges it was all over once the defenders ran out of food and water, water I think will be the key element as someone can last a lot longer without food than water, once the water runs out then life can be measured in days not weeks.
     
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  27. randyt

    randyt Master Survivalist
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    about the only thing someone under siege has going for them during teotwawki is that the attackers probably won't have much for supplies. They may not be able to last long.
     
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  28. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    yes, but they have the ability to send someone off to look for supplies, the defenders cannot.
     
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  29. randyt

    randyt Master Survivalist
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    that is for sure but supplies are probably going to be in short supply just about every where.
     
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  30. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    yes but the attackers can at least TRY and find food, the defenders will be killed the moment they step outside.
     
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  31. randyt

    randyt Master Survivalist
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    I'm sure if it comes down to it there will be all kinds of attempts and different levels of success and failure. The attacker would have the advantage. Nothing is a sure thing
     
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  32. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    look at the historical castle sieges in Britain, all the advantages were on the attackers side.
     
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  33. randyt

    randyt Master Survivalist
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    of course however it wasn't teotwawki. I think that changes things a bit. If the defender is not well stocked and prepared they will be screwed. Can they outlast the attacker.

    I have to wonder was there more resources available out and about the countryside during a historical siege and will there be the same level of resources available after a teotwawki event.
     
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  34. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    most of these sieges were part of the English civil war and conditions outside of the castle were very similar to those which could be imagined in TEOTWAWKI, the ordinary peasants had very little even in the good times.
    although there would have been wild animals if they could have caught them.
     
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  35. Dalewick

    Dalewick Expert Member
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    Sieges? Castles? Even in modern warfare, egress points are established around every fortified position. Defendable positions today are far different than those of history. For starters, todays attackers can be easily shot at 1000 yards by a decent marksman that is properly equipped. Makes a crossbow look pretty ineffective. For anyone interested, I would suggest reading about combat engineering and defensible positions.

    Attacking or defending in a modern environment comes with many advantages and disadvantages. Figuring out the balance for your group is the key to surviving and thriving. There is lots of reference material available for those that are interested.

    Dale
     
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  36. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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  37. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Siege -- ancient or present. The defenders have to be able to grow their own supplies and raise enough meat inside the compound, if they wish to withstand a siege. Water source must also be inside the compound. The compound cannot depend on stored food and water, or it will succumb. Now this does not mean a compound is secure if it has these things but it does mean the attackers will have to have superior weapons and much larger numbers of personnel. JMHO
     
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  38. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning all,

    If the siege involved catapult launching of dead cats and dead humans, will the commissary stores be protected against the projectiles ?
     
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  39. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Snyper,

    Ref the posted quote from Gen Mattis;

    Would you act on the quote in ALL situations ?

    Would you adhere to the quote if you're sheltering in place ? Could not the recently deceased been infected with contageous diseases ? All those flies around that corpse ...

    Do you have a mortuary trailer with body bags and HAZMAT suits for you to wear when digging graves ?

    Will you evac ? Same questions.
     
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  40. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    don't confuse war situation with TEOTWAWKI situations, the one thing with war is someone wins and the war ends and the soldiers come home, with TEOTWAWKI it will be an ongoing and permanent situation, no soldier however well trained is going to be able to fight day after day, month after month, year after year, without end, at some point they wont be able to carry on.
    some people seem to think TEOTWAWKI will be unrelenting fire fights and all out combat, but I disagree, I don't think there will be enough survivors to carry out that sort of combat.
    post TEOTWAWKI your main occupation will be putting food on the table, not fighting all comers.
     
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  41. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    It says "have a plan", so why not "act" and create a plan?

    You seem to be rambling now.

    None of which have any relation to the quote I posted about making a plan.
     
  42. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I have a rather different view on this sort of thing. I actually don't think that military training is all that useful if all you want to do is survive. A military is armed and trained for aggressive, mobile, goal-oriented, tactics. If you plan on being a thug and taking what you want after things fall this might be worthwhile. If on the other hand, you want to just survive until things settle back down a militaristic sort of plan is likely to get you killed.

    This has been demonstrated over and over. Armies do great when they are fighting against other militaristic armies. They don't do nearly as well against guerrilla tactics of hit and run and never staying around for a set battle. With all of our massive military might the US never subdued the Viet Cong nor have they managed to "end" the mess in Iraq though we won the war. Russia did no better in Afganastan and the French gave up on Vietnam before we stupidly got into it.

    I think that the best plan for just surviving is to avoid any aggressive fighting like the plague. I'm not saying that you don't want to defend your place but if you are on the move you need to do so in a way that doesn't require you to be in constant combat. I honestly don't see the Gangs as being a big threat after an initial period of urban chaos. They are going to fight and kill each other pretty fast. If they try to attack a prepared prepper they are going to get shot up bad and since they are NOT a trained military that is willing to follow even suicidal orders they are going to pull out pretty fast. There will be plenty of easy unprepared targets for them to take. When I cut loose on them they are going to freak. lots of lead in the air and then big explosions every time they try to hide.

    If you want to learn combat then try to focus on defensive rather than military offensive tactics. If you have a set place then build in killing fields. Provide what looks like good places for attackers to take cover when you start shooting and then make those hides bad places to be with explosives or punji sticks. Have well made sandbagged shooting emplacements for the defenders and then offer the attackers bushes that you can shoot right through and other visually solid but useless places for idiots to hide. I love watching people on TV hide behind garbage cans and empty barrels. In real life they are useless. Even my pistol will shoot right through either.

    Have a fall back plan with secondary emplacements and have caches with more ammo and running gear. Sometimes survival means knowing when to call it quits and bailout. Remember the Alamo!! If they had followed orders they would have left before Santa Anna got there and lived to fight another day. Had Fannin survived Sam Houston would have killed him for fighting a losing battle and getting a lot of very brave men killed against his orders.
     
    1. TMT Tactical
      I sure wish you would quit posting my defensive plans. :eek: :D
       
      TMT Tactical, Oct 5, 2019
  43. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Snyper,

    I do understand the perspective you're using.
     
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