Cruise Ships Are Not "contaminated Prisons"

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/07/asia/us-coronavirus-victim-cruise-ship-intl-hnk/index.html


Good morning all,

Per ...

Not a box; a few mils thicker than a Walmart leaf bag.

What solution can the US Navy offer to a company of a foreign flagged vessel without going through political channels for permission ?

 

Good morning Lonewolf,

No !

Quarantine the vessels.

This is not a first time event in recorded history.

There's even a flag for ships to fly when there are infected are on board.

Mrs Gay Courte can even have time to write another piece of literature. She might even eclipse Lord Tennyson and Lev Tolstoy, even with her maxed-out credit card.

 

Of all the places to be right now, onboard a cruise ship probably ranks only slightly above being in Wuhan.

As an ex crew member I can perhaps more fully appreciate how bad it can get. The passengers are vocal and talking to the media with enthusiasm. The crew are suffering in silence. A common joke among crew is that passengers leave their brains and manners in the car park on the dock.

And when one passenger gets sick, well you can guarentee a whole lot more will follow. They touch everything, all the time. They ignore requests for sanitation, and asking them not to touch food on a buffet. Well you would have better luck explaining that to a starving cat.

I can only presume medical supplies have been added to the ships after symptoms showed up because normally, of the 3 different ships I worked on, the largest hospital bay could treat 5 people with minor illnesses.

 

Good morning Lonewolf,

LOL

I was in artillery recon in Vietnam War.

Arty practice really means Taiwan and Hong Kong, where the floating petri dishes are located, are going underwater even before the vessels are hit.

Even if the virus is contained, those filthy open markets with wildlife need closing. They're still havens for germs regardless of how many seminars WHO sponsors. ... and it's not just China with these types of markets.

Foot Note: The days of WWII's Field Marshal Slim and General Stilwell are long gone. Only a few mil orgs nowadays can shoot the tubes in safety and with accuracy.

 

Good morning Rebecca,

Real good info. Merci.

Well prior to this Wuhan virus outbreak, CDC established a section to work the cruise industry's ships re the public health aspects.

Nothing too shocking about the results when packing many people into a confined container.

Very interesting: the largest hospital bay can handle 5 - for minor stuff.

 

Here's the CDC cruise ship link: https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/default.htm

 

While the medical crew are well trained and certified and include proper Doctors, the go to response when I was on ships based out of ports in Florida was to air evac anything remotely serious back to the States for treatment.

They can't do that for people requiring the kind of quarantine that corona virus patients receive.

 

Good afternoon Rebecca,

Had guessed air evac was depended on.

This really translates to the elderly passengers accepting the minimal care situation on the boat.

 

Good morning Lonewolf,

People who live in glass houses, people who swim in shark-infested lagoons and people who freely elect to enter overcrowded boats for isolated stays, experience consequences.

These pleasure-seekers entered into a germ lab and are now learning about infections and subsidized pleasure.

If they get a "next time", perhaps we should suggest a stay at a dude ranch "out West".

 

Rebecca and others,

I have worked in a large Eastern US shipyard for many many years as a machinist on these ships which come in here for repairs and overhaul.

I have worked on a number of ocean liners as well as tankers, freighters, container ships, Sealift vessels, etc etc. Also on Navy Ships...aircraft carriers and submarines.

You do not usually hear of the Navy people...even on large aircraft carriers speaking of heavy sickness onboard..for such talk would get around very quickly among Navy People...and eventually shipyard personnel.

I do agree with you about the lack of knowledge or savvy amongst passengers with mostly a television or movie education as I am often want to phrase it.

However.....


After witnessing what I have seen in this shipyard...I determined never to go out on an Ocean Liner Cruise....but what you have revealed further confirms my desire not to go out ….on one of these ships.

What I witnessed down in the engine rooms and other machinery spaces is many of the help...mostly Orientals…..being told by the engineers to remove valves and components when directed by them and bring these components to a work bench.

There at the work bench the engineers examine these components/parts and then give the workers new seals/gaskets and tell them to reinstall them back from whence they were removed. On occasion they will provide a new or rebuilt valve to replace the olde one after inspection.

What, over time, became clear to me was that these workers had no idea what these valves or systems in which these valves or components were installed...what they did..or how the system worked.

What one thinking does with such information and awareness is to project this lack of knowledge out to what happens in an emergency....

Are these people that well trained in emergency procedures…and or how these systems and the ship is supposed to work.???

This is very important for one to consider beyond all the glitter and glitz advertising which goes on to get people to buy into Ocean Liner Cruise packages.

And it is the furthest thing from the minds of most travelers..seeking to escape and be free spirited children for a short time.

But not me...I have not forgotten what I saw over many many years in this shipyard.

Hence I will never take a Ocean Liner Cruise......

A short harbor cruise yes..but out on the Ocean Blue...no thanks.

Most Americans never think that far with their television and or movie educations.

But thanks for covering the other side of the Cruise business....I was not aware of that about the passengers but it fits.
Nor the ships hospital capacity.

I do remember one incident, many years ago, when Stationed in Iceland with a rescue long range helicopter squadron....an emergency call to an Ocean Liner at sea to remove a passenger with an appendicitis...to land for surgery.


Watcherchris
Not an Ishmaelite.

 

Pragmatist,

Wow...

I spent two years after I got out of the Air Force with the Virginia National Guard....155mm towed artillery.

Man.....humping those rounds ..was heavy work. Scary when you have to punch one back out of the tubes if they cancel the fire mission. You wonder if someone properly made that fuse or skipped a step.???

Artillery recon??.....forward observer..or damage assessment...or both??

I am sure GPS in dedicated military systems has changed certain aspects of artillery versus the days we were in.


Watcherchris

Not an Ishmaelite.

 

Good morning Watcherchris,

Arty recon sgt with FO party both infantry and air observer crew. Knew how to adjust fire missions. Many of the Lieutenants could not. The lifer Captains and higher were, however, knowledgeable.

Had heard that the US phased out the 105mm HOW and 175MM HOW with batteries now having 8 tubes.

Not familiar with GPS use. My arty bn was the first non-special forces unit to get the new Starlight scope. I picked up the 2 for delivery to our Bn Cdr. I know that electronics was being phased in during my time. Aiming posts were being replaced by some instrument requiring batteries. In COIN work - counterinsurgency - GPS and related electronics can work. Had heard in major enemy confrontations, the battle field has no working electronics or avionics.

No one in any gym has ever had a workout compared to humping arty rounds.

On my Viet boonie hat I have a fleche from a 105mm APER Beehive round. Over 99% of our national population does not know what the enemy looks like when hit with a beehive round.

The new stuff is worse.

 

Yup....aiming posts is what we had....

I expect a lot of this is replaced today with electronics....however....

I also suspect one needs to be able to do it the olde fashioned way with todays electronic countermeasures and or jamming going on...aiming sticks.


Most of our stuff was fused point detonation...but occasionally a timed fuse round...for air burst or detonation in the ground significantly after impact.

Have Never worked flechette round but know what they are....the artillery version of a shotgun round....Wow!! Bad news on the receiving end....

Thanks for that update.

Watcherchis

Not an Ishmaelite.

 

Present days cruise liner passenger is a different breed compare to those 30 years ago. Its the same thing in the airline industry.

 

by Varuna,

No it is not. In an emergency you are still spam in a can. What are you thinking??

This is a survival prepper board.



Years ago I took a woman to Las Vegas...the same woman to Hawaii. She was impressed with all the glitter and glitz in Las Vegas.....the Romance and beauty in Hawaii....of all the tourist places..

I was not impressed. It takes more than bright lights and pretties to impress me.

Bright lights and colours are what children get at the toy aisle....screaming at you..."Take me ...take me.!!"

It is the same at the detergent aisle in the grocery store....in appealing to women.

Las Vegas is no different to me...bright lights and glitter to catch the fancy and imagination of children.


My Dad is Hawaiian....

I know the average Hawaiian doe not live like the touristy places.

Was invited to go to Cancun, Mexico with a woman years ago....I passed it up. I know what it is like when you get a few blocks away from the touristy places....just like in Hawaii.

Bright lights and glitter do not impress me....which is why I have no ambition to see New York City/Manhattan/Chicago.
Been to all of them ..was glad to get out and back home.

Been to Tokyo...too...not impressed.


Still...on an ocean liner or airplane....when the SHTF ...you are not far from spam in a can.


My non Ishmaelite .02,
Watcherchris

 

I was referring to the PAX behaviour, particularly in their mannerism. Most present days cruise liner PAX has never experienced the kind of amenities available onboard in their daily life.

 

Its due to the business model. The need for cutting down operating cost (manpower). Training and retaining personnel has never been cheap and will never be.

Relax there is only 1 (one) Ocean Liner in the world that still operating. The rest are Cruise Liner and not operating any Ocean passage. Beside with the majority of present days cruise liner being top-heavy, are you seriously wan't to be inside any of those thing for ocean crossing?

 

by Varuna,

This is a survival site....a prepper site....but understand about the average passenger with a television and or movie education in instant gratification. The average television and or movie trained American expects McDonalds to be there wherever they go in the world ..they are that stupid. Pizza delivery!!
I don't ever want to be on a sea going vessel with such an crew or even passengers...no thanks.

One of my worst nightmares is to be stuck on that famous desert island with four hundred people who mostly know how to text...little else..and expect someone else to set up the buffet line for them.

This is exactly what happened with many of those evacuated after hurricane Katarina....and people moved to other locations/states....they expected a buffet line..without work and without risk. Many of them also brought with them their chaos/entitlement.



Which is also why I never want to go out on any cruise ship or an ocean liner...

I've seen enough of them in these shipyards to know some of the crew is no more intelligent/knowledgeable...than the passengers.

I do know that certain cruise lines …..in a past emergency ...the crews were headed to the lifeboats ahead of the passengers...


And that cruise ship which went on it's side in the Med.....some years back wherein the Captain was leaving the ship and told by open radio to go back on board....Wow!! Very telling.

These events already confirmed what I knew and had seen for myself.....strongly suspected.

Spam in a can... You think what you want....

But for those in the know..,.it is not good and fun times which count...it is who knows what to do in hard times...in an emergency...not good and fun times.

Which is also why I am often want to bring up a television and or movie education.

But it shows in an emergency...those who can go the distance and or follow their training and or instincts... and then the drama queens....emotional train wrecks....folloing their training and or instincts.

Doesn't matter...ocean liners or cruise ships....once they go so far out....in the blue water....,spam in a can.

Agree about the top heavy...I've seen them in this shipyard and thought the same...
Fancy on top with electric motors down underneath....azipods

https://new.abb.com/marine/systems-and-solutions/azipod

Not particularly impressed....

It is still the crew which counts in an Emergency/Abnormal Conditdion/SHTF.

And most of the passengers have not a clue.....Disneyland....

Ishmaelites run amok....in Disneyland...

I hate Disneyland..never plan to go there. Not interested in Bush Gardens....nor Kings Dominion or other such theme parks...Dollywood!!!!
I'd rather be surrounded by real people with real skills and knowledges...not an artificial environment...and or people.

It is just me...my way.


My non Ishmaelite .02,
Watcherchris.

 

Amen...lonewof...Amen.

Watcherchris
Not an Ishmaelite.

 

You got me to remembering something from years ago...when I took a woman on a short harbor cruise here in the Chesapeake bay....in the James River.

I took a woman with me ...and a sudden heavy squall came up...visibility quickly went down to some 50 feet in very heavy rain and or winds.

The woman with me ...I told her not to panic...for a panic can be one of the worst things one can do in such an situation. She did fine..and held it together.

But the woman a couple of seats down...you could see the fear on her face... She was terrified...but did manage to hold it together..I watched her closely lest she loose it.....through all the sudden thunder and lightening.

Just as sudden as it came up ...it disappeared and we made it quietly back to port.

Those are the people for whom I don't want to be around. My woman ...to her credit did not let fear get on her face....or get close to loosing it.


I do know this about certain ships and crews....

When you see the olde timers on the crew or the olde time chiefs...getting worried.....pay attention....for they know what is going on.

They don't get excited over small stuff.....but they know when it is serious. You see the olde timers crossing their fingers or muttering a prayer.....it's serious.

My non Ishmaelite .02,
Watcherchris