Dealing with the dead...

Discussion in 'Other Not Listed Situations' started by Mekada, Oct 17, 2016.

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  1. Mekada

    Mekada Expert Member
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    I am not sure if this topic has been dealt with but I truly don't know what to do with the corpse of say a family member or fellow survivalists that died. How should one handle the situation when bugging in and bugging out? As I understand decaying bodies is horrible source of disease and can jeopardize you and your family's health. I believe that the dead should be treated with respect but would that even be possible given the large number of people who will inevitably die?
     
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  2. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Good question, I don't think this has been mentioned before. Certainly in the cities this would pose a big problem & health risk. If fuel was available then the body could be burned with a little help of people's wooden furniture, in the country not such a problem, bury it or burn it. I don't think it would be any disrespect to burn a body, this is a standard practice in some countries.
    It does bring to light though the problem of the dead in the cities. People are going to die, & many will be left to rot!!!
    MEMBERS THOUGHTS ON THIS PLEASE.
    Keith.
     
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  3. Mekada

    Mekada Expert Member
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    After every major disaster globally there are corpses everywhere, then they are removed by emergency services before posing a real risk. For those of us who are in the towns and cities this will be disastrous. Moving through a city with large amounts of dad people will not only be unnerving but might make you sick. Will this also not attract wild animals and pets who have now become ferral?
     
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  4. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Absolutely it will !!! Feral dogs will become a problem in country areas anyway (they already are in some places), but as you say, this is bound to bring them into city areas too. Wild animals getting a taste for human flesh is not good !
    Keith.
     
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  5. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    this is one reason I have a notebook so I can write stuff down when I come across it. some notes I made back in april 2015:
    most infectious organisms do not survive in a dead body past 48 hours, except HIV which has been found 6 days post mortem- and I assume this also applies to Ebola as well.
    risks to body handlers: hepatitis B and C, HIV, TB and diarrheal disease, diseases are spread by blood and bodily fluids.
    for large scale disasters communal graves will be unavoidable , graves should be 1.5 metres/5 feet deep, cremation uses too much wood. unquote.
     
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  6. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Thanks, I will bare that in mind !
    Keith.
     
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  7. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    Already have plans for this!

    If you are bugging in a deep pit will be handy, pre dig if you can as it is back breaking work!
    If you have relatively safe movement clear your surrounds in circular sweeps asap!
    A rope and a few holes in a sheet of roofing iron and a long sturdy stick with a large nail through one end
    will aid in rolling and then dragging bodies away!
    Lifting them to put in vehicles is way too hard for just one or two people, roll onto a sheet of roofing iron is quick and easy and with a rope loop is easy to drag short distances!
    No actual handling needed
    Fill pit with timber nearly to top, roll bodies on top, add some liquid fuel to start it then ligh!
    Fire will burn slow but hot, soil will keep the heat in, add wood on top and keep burning.
    Pit can be used again and again!
    Soil will retain heat for a day or two so using the same pit on a daily basis keeping the soil hot will save digging new pits and improve efficiency!

    A 2m x 2m x 2m pit could take hundreds of victims and still finish half empty!

    Maybe if you care take details of victims where you can and record them, stick in a bit of plastic pipe and bury when it is cooled and you fill with soil!
     
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  8. Mekada

    Mekada Expert Member
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    Wow... That is simultaneously interesting and scary.
     
  9. James98

    James98 Well-Known Member
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    IMO burning bodies is a bad idea for a few reasons
    1. it takes a lot of heat and time to do which makes it an inefficient way to deal with the dead when resources are limited
    2. to produce this much heat for a long time means lots of wood or fuel needs to be collected and used to burn them
    3. the smoke/smell could give away your location

    the way that you dispose of a body will depend on your environment. If you have one or two bodies and were in the country you could consider digging a hole to bury them, this is also labor intensive and may not be possible if it is winter and the ground is frozen. IMO the best way, in this case, would be to carry them far away from camp and leave them exposed to the elements. Just like everything else the dies in nature, the remains would be eaten by wildlife and absorbed back into nature. another option is to put them into a lake, river, ocean where they will be eaten by water animals.

    the main ways that bodies can be taken care of are
    burning
    burying
    exposure
    consumption (by animals)
    large pit (mass Grave)

    and the option you choose will depend greatly on environment, and what you have avalable to you
     
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  10. Mekada

    Mekada Expert Member
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    It really is a tricky situation...
    If you burn them there are risks involved in that like corpse remains. Contrary to popular belief some of a body remains after burning (or so I have heard), and this would be horrible because then i would have to clean up the remaining bits. Like you said it uses a lot of resources and makes you vulnerable to discovery.

    Burying them is a decent option but that would mean that I would have to dig 1.5m holes or one large one for a number of people and that would be very tedious. Since I live in a town i have thought of designating a specific property with low strategic value into a graveyard. Additionally I have heard that in war times animals can smell mass graves and dig them up so I want to avoid that. I really don't want a pack of feral dogs getting a taste for man flesh.

    How far exactly does one have to move dead people in order for them not to be some sort of problem in the future? To close and the wind can blow germs and disease into your sanctuary and you could have that hungry pet problem. Getting them far away also has a lot of problems. If you move them by hand or cart you could fall victim to potential marauders since you will be tired and not focused and your gun will probably not be in your hand. Let's say you have a truck and some fuel... same story different marauders.

    I don't want the dead anywhere near possible water sources. I might need them later. I think that people in the country side have more options than us town folks. Less people, less worries. Like you said in some cases nature will sort itself out.
     
  11. James98

    James98 Well-Known Member
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    I would say that the distance that you move the body is dependent on your situation. obviously the farther away the better but depending on population density in your area you might be restricted in distance. Another option if you are in a town would be to have a designated house (that is unoccupied and at the end of the street possibly) that you would put them in. This would not be my first option but in a pinch it would keep the smell and risk away from the general population while not having to go too far away and risk your saftey
     
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  12. Mekada

    Mekada Expert Member
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    That's a great idea. Moving from house to house can also provide concealment and cover should you come under fire.
     
  13. Bishop

    Bishop Master Survivalist
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    Back in the day when someone died and the family could not afford a coffin the family would break glass in to the grave to keep it from being dug up by animals both two legged and four
     
  14. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    I'd be inclined to leave them where they lie unless they are causing you a problem, the less you touch them the healthier you will be.
     
  15. Oldguy

    Oldguy Master Survivalist
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    If you are in a fixed location you should already have a deep pit dug and covered with a small berm all around it to stop water flowing in somewhere suitable.
    Depending where you are will determine how you dispose of them, I am in a hot humid zone so burning is the way to go!

    The smell of roast pork is so much better than rotten pork:eek: just leave the crackling aloneo_O
     
  16. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    Leaving bodies
    Absolutely spot on LW, and you're also right about Ebola being one of the few diseases which is more contagious after death... Cholera is the one to watch out for in the immediate aftermath of any disaster and Botulism can last for decades as spores in the ground.
    In a separate post LW mentioned using mine shafts dotted around the Devon landscape, good idea. Geographical features such as caves have been used for burial purposes for thousands of years.
     
  17. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    in the Bronze Age "barrows" were built to house the dead, these can be seen in many places notably Wiltshire and Somerset.
    basically a big stone tomb built over the dead bodies, rather than digging down into the ground, built with any available stone and sometimes covered over with turf or soil.
     
  18. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    There is also the option of using something like a crypt for immediate family if there isn't any fear of contagion.
     
  19. Oldguy

    Oldguy Master Survivalist
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    Burn and bury in that order

    Minimum handling, long handled rake to roll on to ground level sled, carefully drag sled with long rope, roll onto fire and burn to crispy critter then bury in the fire ash's.

    Anyone with a base of operations should take the cleanup of bodies around it as a top priority out to as best distance as they can.
    A retreat homestead or whatever is not much good if surrounded by rotting corpse's, should probably aim for a 1km dia clean zone.
     
  20. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    burning a corpse takes too much wood, burying a corpse or corpses may not be possible due to the ground conditions and without fuel a mechanical digger is non functional.
     
  21. Oldguy

    Oldguy Master Survivalist
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    You have your own place, you should have a deep hole ready now.

    Negative negative negative, find soloutions mate not problems!
     
  22. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    just stating what is the current knowledge, post SHTF burning bodies with wood takes too much timber it will also alert people to your location.
    a deep hole dug in preparation seems to state that you expect a lot of dead bodies to appear in your location.
     
  23. Oldguy

    Oldguy Master Survivalist
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    A deep hole takes time and effort, better done now with a machine than in an emergency with a shovel.
     
  24. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    that implies one is expecting lots of dead in their area, i'm not, a low population area, like mine, will mean a low number of bodies, many people wont even make it back home in a serious catastrophe and many others will leave once the power goes off.
    I lived in a bed sit many years ago, the power was cut off-the landlord hadn't paid the bill although we had all paid our share, out of the 5 "flats" in the property 3 were empty once the power went off, the same will apply post SHTF.
     
  25. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    Although I hate terms like sheeple and mass die off I am willing to go out on a limb and say that the vast majority of the UK's population are totally unprepared. This doesn't mean that I expect them all to perish immediately. There will certainly be enough people left in the cities to pose a lawlessness problem and I'm sure that there will be victims of violence.
    Now please bear in mind that if you're in a town or city there may be bodies of people that you don't know that you may feel are not your responsibility, many households in cities don't even own a spade or shovel and it may be foolish to attract attention to yourself or expose yourself to possible attack.
     
  26. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    there will certainly be a lawlessness problem in the big cities, what is referred to as societal collapse, as conditions become worse and the food supplies run out there will be victims of violence, dehydration, starvation and most of all disease.
     
  27. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    ...and when there are other people around it's tempting to think that corpses can be someone else's problem.
     
  28. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    not if they have an effect on someone's health and possible survival.
    I suppose it depends on whether it is safe to go outside and do something about it, or not!
     
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  29. John P Smith

    John P Smith New Member
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    If after an event has occurred there are numbers of dead in the neighborhood and empty houses, put the bodies in the house until you have enough then set the house on fire.
     
  30. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    many will die inside their own homes or in their cars, I doubt that many will just drop dead in the street.
     
  31. Oldguy

    Oldguy Master Survivalist
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    Still one can not just ignore the problem, birds alone feeding on infected corpse's can spread those infections far and wide, literally nowhere is safe but cleaning up your area can lower the risk of infection dramaticly.
    Then there are flies, rats, fox's, pigs, dogs, cats etc that can spread nasties all over the place.
    What if your dog eats an infected rat?

    Any smart prepper/survivalist will quickly clean up their own area as best they can as it prevents so many other problems.
     
  32. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    I just cant see a lot of folk just dropping dead in the street, if they get infected with a pandemic, or get weak from lack of food or water, they will take to their beds and die there not out in the street.
     
  33. Oldguy

    Oldguy Master Survivalist
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    It matters little where they actually die unless you have a force field bubble to exist in the pandemic will come to you.
    One can only reduce there risk not eliminate it. To think a few miles of distance is enough in itself is folly!

    Dealing properly with the dead is just as essential as eating and drinking.
    It is not hi tech but it is grim work that needs to be done properly

    In the early morning chill is the best time, use long handled rake to roll onto a sheet of roofing iron or similar, secure with rope if needed, drag to hole, roll in, repeat and repeat. Use long rope to drag, disposable gloves and mask
     
  34. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    it does matter where they die! dying in their own houses is a lot less of a problem than if they drop dead outside my house, in a city the job will probably be done for us as without power and fuel there will be no emergency services and sooner or later the houses will all burn, either by accident or by arson.
    don't make problems where there aren't any.
     
  35. Oldguy

    Oldguy Master Survivalist
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    Whatever
    So all that panic in disasters around the world about hygiene and cleaning up the bodies is just for show then? Right got it now! no problems
     
  36. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    yeah when building collapse because of hurricanes or earthquakes, neither of which we get in my part of the world.
    the time when people get infected by disease is when they start handling dead bodies, according to official information "the general public dosent get infected by dead bodies because the general public dosent handle dead bodies" unquote.
     
  37. Oldguy

    Oldguy Master Survivalist
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    Like I said "Whatever"
     
  38. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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  39. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    Thought this might be a topic for review with the way the world is going.

    Seems to be 2 primary methods of corpse disposal being discussed (bury or burn) and I suppose that is about correct, but how is this affected by location? I mean someone losing a loved one in a city or urban environment won't think of this the same way that someone in a extremely rural or wilderness area will think of it for 2 legged predators.

    I have to agree with lonewolf on if the body or bodies aren't your problem (on or in your property) don't fool with them unless you have too. After a TEOTWAWKI or severe SHTF event some bodies will have to be dealt with. In urban environments, I would consider a fuel source for cremation that most don't consider. Old auto tires. They burn hot enough to actually cremate bodies and there will be plenty around.

    As long as the SHTF event hasn't destroyed the natural ecosystem there is a 3rd option available for a single or limited use. Scaffolding. Native peoples would place bodies in elevated positions and let nature take it's course. I would consider this more of a method for loved ones than for quick disposal.

    On another note. In most parts of the world I would be careful of what pork I ate after a severe SHTF event. Pigs, either hunted or traded for, will always eat a corpse when available and handling the animal can be a source of infection transfer with skinning and processing. If dogs and cats are on the menu, the same goes for them.

    For those in areas with a possibility of having numerous bodies within close proximity to your residence or bug in location. You may want to consider having several bags of powdered lime stored away. It's great for gardens but it can also be put on bodies to kill disease and cut down greatly on bad smells. It's also good for dehairing raw hides for leather making.

    One other thought for anyone living on or close to the ocean. Bodies can be buried in the ocean and nature will reclaim them quickly (sharks, crabs, etc.) with no harmful side affects to the environment. On the other side of that anyone in the southern USA or in tropical areas where crocodiles, alligators or caimans live, it is not advisable to feed these animals with bodies as they will associate humans with food then and become more dangerous than normal.

    Dale
     
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  40. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    most of the dead bodies post SHTF will be in the cities that is where 80% of the population now lives so that is where the main problem of disposal will be.
    in a low population town or village the % of the dead will be much smaller.
    on cremation burning a dead body takes about a ton of wood thats a lot of wood and the smoke from such a blaze will give away the location.
    I have always liked the idea of a "sky burial" similar to the practice of the native tribes of the US, unfortunately such a thing is illegal in the UK at the moment, so a "forest burial" is my chosen method for my own funeral.
     
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    1. Dalewick
      I figure most bodies in the cities will be cremated when the arsonist get going full speed. No law enforcement, no fire suppression and no running water....I wouldn't want to be in any city when this happens.
       
      Dalewick, Jul 1, 2020
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  41. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
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    IMO Sea burial is the most practical and acceptable in most culture. And beside the sea, particularly deep sea is the perfect place (safe for the environment) to dumb variety of hazardous materials including spent nuclear fuel or other radioactive waste.

    eeech.... ooops o_O
     
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  42. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    sea burial is only possible if someone is near the sea and has access to a boat, i am neither.
    as for disposing of nuclear material in the sea, you really want to contaminate a possible food source??
     
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  43. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
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    What food source? o_O

    Dumping high grade radioactive material at sea is synonym of salting the sea. Contaminating the sea by dumping radioactive waste into it is simply impossible due to the nature of sea water and planet earth itself.The sea water itself is already radioactive material to the point you can extract uranium from it (albeit not economical to do so). Dumping few hundreds, thousand, or million ton worth of human made radioactive materials is minuscule amount compare to the naturally diluted uranium of sea water.

    As for food source, when the last time you eat any bottom feeder from beyond continental shelf? :confused: What? you never eat anything from there or never knew anyone who do, than the question regarding contaminating food source is irrelevant
     
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  44. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    Even in the deep sea there is still enough drift to slowly bring our stupidity (nuclear waste) back to us through the food chain. And that's from the dead zones with little movement. Anything dumped deep but in the global currents would be back at us in a year or two. The salinity zones move way faster than most people think. They may be what bites us in the rear still with the amounts of new fresh water entering the system.

    Dale
     
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  45. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    what a load of rubbish, there speaks someone who dosent give a damn about the environment.:rolleyes: I take it you dont eat fish either.
     
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  46. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Dale,

    We've got a couple of double-wide body bags here. In case of drowning, bodies usually swell up thus the double-wide version of bag.

    After a ~ 72 hour situation change and new evaluation, will decide on most appropriate method.

    Written notes imperative.
     
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    1. Dalewick
      I've worked drownings and body recovery. You never forget that smell.
       
      Dalewick, Jul 1, 2020
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  47. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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    It all depends on who is the recently departed . If it is looters we just dispatched then we will pile them up on the back of a side by side and take them to what we call the bottomless hole and drop them in . I don't know anyone that has seen the bottom of that creepy moss draped hole . Considering the amount of disappeared forever people around here . I would be surprised if there was NOT already a few bodies in there . If it just too much trouble to move the bodies then we may leave them for the buzzards . Not very for from our retreat " less than one mile " is a body that someone left in a cave . We call the ghost of this corpse "thumper ". Sadly this person was not even fully grown as the skull has good non cavity teeth . --- Now if it is someone we have respect for we will give them a decent burial .
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
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  48. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    Bear Bait........:rolleyes:
     
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    1. Dalewick
      I worked a bear attack many years ago out west. There are no good ways to die but man, that is a horrible way to go. The bear had ate on the guy before he was dead. It ate his intestines, liver, kidneys, stomach muscles and most of his thighs and leg muscles. The coroner said the guy died of shock and blood loss, but it had took a while.

      I don't want a bear associating human smell with food ever!
       
      Dalewick, Jul 1, 2020
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