Do You Believe Extraterrestrial Life Exists?

M----- Teddy, you folk look a whole lot like us. Did you take this form?
T------ No, our two species simply look alike. Synchronicity, universal, all that.
M----- You are smarter than us.
T------- Yes. Our brains have more wrinkles.
M------ Did you use other dimensions to get here?
T------ Yes.
M----- Why are you here?
T----- Your species is somewhat interesting to watch. Me, I like you guys.
M----- Have any advice? World hunger? War? What to do about all the nasty stuff?
T------ No.
M----- Did you learn to smoke tobacco from us?
T------ No. We taught you.
M----- Actually, we learned about tobacco from the Indians.
T------ We taught them.
M------ Why?
T------ Tobacco is great, and besides, we figured it would be one of the only ways for the Indians to get even with the Europeans.
M----- --pause--
T------ Hey man, I have to be going. Great to smoke one with you. I'm expected in Turkey.
M----- See you whenever! Have fun!
T----- [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[ ZOOMPFFF ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]

 

Gentlemen,

I have been keeping track of this thread from an aside.

I am not familiar with the term....FTL...

What does that mean...??? For what do those initials stand???

My thanks in advance for any clarification and or definitions.

Watcherchris

Not an Ishmaelite

 

FTL... Faster Than Light

Personally I think that OTLS might be more likely. Other Than Light Speed. A worm hole that moved you directly from here to there would not necessarily involve the object ever being FTL. There are a lot of possible loop holes in the light speed question.

 

To think there is no life on another planet is sort of like someone siting on a island in the pacific ocean thinking that is where the only life is .

 

Hmmmmmm a gambler???

I think I have heard this position before somewhere ..

I think it goes like this...



" A long time ago....

In a galaxy far ..far...away...."


Watcherchris

Not an Ishmaelite

 

I

I can't argue with that lonewolf. At times I think similar.


Right up the road from me, about three miles, is a very interesting place called The NASA Langley Research Center. There are lots of moon rocks on display in this town. Lots of NASA people live in this and neighboring cities.

But NASA works on a lot of different research disciplines..not only space exploration.

Thanks,
Watcherchris

Not an Ishmaelite

 

There are approximately 70,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 suns in the observable universe. Most seem to have planets orbiting them. The number that would by random chance be orbiting in the "Goldilocks" zone where liquid water is a possibility is still an unimaginably large number. Our universe is 13,000,000,000 years old.

When I look at our planet one thing that becomes obvious is that anyplace that liquid water can exist life finds a way to be there. In the Antarctic where almost all is frozen, anywhere that the water is liquid we find life. In the most barren desert where there is almost nothing but hot sand; we find life. At the bottom of the deepest oceans in waters that are heated to 750 degrees F there are worms and shrimp that feed off the minerals spewed out by the volcanic black smoke holes. Given time on every remote island we find life that often times is so isolated that we can't figure out how it got there to start.

To me, given the number of possible planets and the length of time involved I find it almost a certainty that life is not only possible but probably common. What may be a lot less common is the rise and survival of intelligent life. Planets are dangerous places and between geologic issues, impact issues and various biological issues life seems to rise and fall on a pretty regular basis. When intelligence does manage to rise even if the forces of nature fail to wipe it out if it is anything like us it may wipe itself out. Between the possibilities of war and our poor resource and environmental issues we are by no stretch a sure thing to survive.

IF someone manages to survive long enough to rise up and get off the time bomb that a planet is they will be a massively different sort of person than we are. We put most of our efforts into killing each other or preparing to kill each other or preparing to defend ourselves from others that want to kill us. At the rate that we are going I suspect that we will still be sitting here when the next dinosaur killer comet smacks us or the volcanoes blow us away or the next ice age turns the earth into a giant snow ball.

An interplanetary species will be almost impossible, short of the sun going nova, to wipe out. Given time they are eventually going to become interstellar and eventually intergalactic. Look at what we have done in a hundred years and imagine a people that have had thousands of years of progress starting where we are now. Look how distances have dwindled for us. How long and how far did Columbus travel to get to North America from Europe. Now New York City to London is under 7 hours. Given time intelligence will find a way to shorten the distance.

If we are being visited they are most likely being about as cautious of us as early explorers were when encountering head hunting cannibals . Their technology will be so far above ours that it will be almost indistinguishable from magic.

 

Though it has been awhile...I believe that quote is from Arthur C. Clarke.


I did not know until reading his bio, some time back, that 2001 A Space Odyssey was his work.

Very revealing if one knows what one is observing...referring to the religion.

Same thing with 2010 the sequel...very interesting and revealing.

I am often given to wonder about NASA Itself.

Watcherchris
Not an Ishmaelite

 

Space rocks with the remains of microbes on earth?
Earth may have been seeded by the remains of another planet long destroyed ?
We as in earth may be one of many planets seeded in this area of space, who knows?
There is a good chance that any goldilocks planets in this area were seeded at the same time and may have developed along similar lines with different but similar lines, maybe ahead of us or behind us development wise.

Any aliens we meet will be warlike and arrogant as it needs conflict to develop advanced tech.
Without conflict little changes?
With conflict and tech advances the winners succeed so any advanced species will be aggressive and warlike on thier climb and pacifists on thier decline. It is not just a human thing but a life thing.

 

The simple act of winning in conflict breeds arrogance, it is unavoidable and for aliens to get here they would have had lots of wins!

Just look at our historical explorers they went armed, none asked permission step ashore, and all were looking for wealth and none lurked in the shadows, they all came with force and used it!
These were brave men who faced peril head on. I see no reason that explorers from other planets would do much different, they may look different and the weapons would be different but there actions would be similar. Cowards that hide in shadows would not get here!

 

https://coi.tothestarsacademy.com/tictacreport
Long, but very interesting report.
If you have the time, you all should read in its entirety.

 

There are stories in tightly knit circles wherein our submariners and or sonar operators are under orders not to "Ping" these underwater contacts when they detect them.

These stories also indicate that these contacts are running several hundred miles per hour underwater and cross the distances on the screens/scopes...very rapidly.

These stories are known within the trade but kept close to the vest.


Thanks,
Watcherchris

Not an Ishmaelite

 

chris the reason that the hubble is in outer space is that your atmosphere distorts the photos that we take . but if we are in otter space then there is no atmosphere and therefore no distortion.

Bill

 

i believe that there are many,many, many other forms of life in this universe, i also believe that we have been visited many times. I like the star trek prime directive
In the fictional universe of Star Trek, the Prime Directive (also known as Starfleet General Order 1, General Order 1, and the "non-interference directive") is a guiding principle ofStarfleet, prohibiting its members
from interfering with the internal and natural development of alien civilizations.[1] The Prime Directive applies particularly to civilizations which are below a certain threshold of technological, scientific and cultural development; preventing starship crews from using their superior technology to impose their own values or ideals on them

That being said we are below a that threshold . We are too screwed up at this time , maybe once we stop fighting and killing each other off because we are different races ,religions, or languages they (aliens ) will welcome us .

Bill

 

I suspect that the UFOs will remain unidentified. People have a hard time treating other people of different races and nationalities in a sane and accepting manner. Can you IMAGINE how these people would react to an intelligent life form that wasn't even human??? Xenophobia would drive so many people crazy that it would be a nightmare. Any aliens that were going to come out of the closet had better be armor plated and invincible or some nut will kill them on sight. When I was young I had to fight just because I had hair that was longer than most males. Even the cops acted like it was a crime to be different. Can you imagine how those pricks would react to someone that wasn't even close to looking normal. The government may be right and people are just not stable enough to know if there are aliens watching us.

 

H2O / carbon is but one paradigm. The dimensions we can sense are those we can sense and maybe understand. There are many dimensions in this plane of existence. There are many planes of existence, many universes.

We can understand babies in the womb. Souls in the next world who "died" out of this world can look back on us even as we look back on the foetus. When we caterpillars look at a dried-up chrysalis, we imagine a dead caterpillar -- we cannot look up, or we will not look up to see the butterfly. Such is our condition.

Creatures from across our galaxy look upon us even as we look upon lower primates. I imagine other sentient beings using layers of our own universe -- layers about which we know nothing -- to engineer travel at speeds we consider impossible, beyond the speed of light. Our observers "skip" the confines of the speed of light. At this point in time, our brains are insufficiently evolved to accomplish such.

There are so many understandings beyond us. Very frustrating.

 

To develop technology one needs fire and a non conductive atmosphere and hands of a similar sort.

In most probability any advanced aliens will be bipeds, have hands and be oxygen breathers as those things are needed to develop tech!
They will be puny physically but have powerful weapons
They will look at us as we do say baboons.

 

Man is a biped because he evolved from quadruped predecessors. Going to two feet freed up the front limbs for other things and that led to a bigger brain to use those freed appendages. We are also in general bilaterally symmetrical as are most living creatures on earth. Someplace else all of this may be different. A Hexaped creature could easily lift up the front pair freeing them up for manipulatory use and still be a quadruped.

A crab has multiple manipulatory appendages. The engineering of several of the insect kingdom is amazing. Even on our little mud ball there are a lot of creatures that manipulate their environment in almost intelligent ways. Given the multitude of planets out there and the many very different environments I suspect that intelligent people will have to be a description based on mental rather than physical traits.

The dinosaurs were beginning to come together and I suspect that given a little more time some of the smaller weaker bipedal raptors would have developed intelligence. Man was pushed into intelligence by not having much else going for him. For whatever reason we came down from the trees and on the ground we are slow, thin skinned, almost toothless, clawless and not gifted with very fast reaction speeds. The one thing that only man can do is throw things really hard. Apes can only toss rocks and even though they are many times stronger than us not one could ever throw a nearly one hundred mile per hour fast ball.

That ability matched with a growing brain that could never have passed through the pelvis of a quadruped animal set us on our way. I can think of so many other paths that other very different environmental conditions and lots of time could have developed. I believe that life is insidious and unstoppable. Once given the tiniest start it fills all nooks and crannies in the environment. The start is so simple that I can't see it only happening once. Life basically starts as a rather simple chemical reaction.

A virus is not alive and cannot reproduce without infecting a host BUT once it has a host it acts very much like a living thing. Without a host it is like dust and could travel in space forever until it landed someplace with conditions where possibly it could adapt and flourish.

 

Artic bill...

No problem..I known and understand all of that.

The cost of the Hubble and whatever came after it was and is phenomenally expensive.

The point being debated in the conversation at the time was why would someone spend so much money to look into deep space when we were not able to get there with current propulsion methods...nor carry much cargo to and fro??

Why do we need to spend so much money to look into deep space under these conditions??

And the conclusion arrived at was that it was a hoax....the prime reason was never to look into deep space.but down here on earth....

Deep space was easy to sell upon a gullible public raised on a steady diet of television and movies...star trek...star wars...and other Babylon stuff they are want to spoon feed the gullible. The perfect camouflage to promote the religion.


Right up the road, about three miles from me, is the NASA Langley Research Center. Lots of wind tunnels...research projects...a huge vacuum chamber, and antenna research facility and more. Lots of moon rocks are to be found in this town.


If you watch certain NASA and other intelligence departmental releases on satellite know how/technology ..they will admit that almost all of the satellite technology is to control , monitor, regulate, and or observe events here on earth...not in outer...deep Space universe. The demand is here on earth ...not in deep space.

I gave up on all that Star Wars, Star Trek and other nonsense years and years ago.

You folks believe all that stuff if you want....I don't.

However..I do not also believe there are UFOs. I think they are FO's....they have been identified very very well.
They know quite well what they are.

Something I did not know about a good percentage of the sightings....that they have been, to a good percentage, seen going into or out of water. This was not information I had received until doing some extensive reading on the sightings. I found this to be interesting.

Well...enough of all that stuff,

Watcherhris
Not an Ishmaelite

 

sorry for the large letter but i copied it from the sources,
Buzz aldrin saw a space craft on apollo 11 to the moon. it was covered up for many years until he spoke up about it .
check it out https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/we...iens-lie-detector-test-buzz-aldrin-astronauts


‘I saw a UFO’ Buzz Aldrin PASSES lie detector test revealing truth about aliens

so i do very much believe in et

 

Sorry Bill...but you lost me there...

We've been back to the moon how many times since Buzz and company????

Why is this???


It's ok by me if you believe in ET or not...makes no difference to me.


Thanks,
Watcherchris

Not an Ishmaelite

 

As I stated earlier in the thread, I'm already absolutely certain of the existence of extra terrestrial life on a bacterial level.
As far as visitors from advanced civilisations, I can't imagine they'd be too impressed with us after having to navigate through al the high velocity crap orbiting our planet in order to sample our poisoned atmosphere and polluted oceans. I'm willing to bet that being sent to study us would be a pretty shitty assignment for any intelligent species.
As far as alien invasion, meh! Who cares? Maybe they'd look after the place a bit better.

 

High velocity space travel makes a forcefield type of protection ESSENTIAL so a little space junk is nothing

 

I don't think that the speed is an issue. If you are going from Europe to Australia you don't try to drive to the airport as fast as the plane will travel. The speed that you drove to and from the airport is of little meaning. Realistic interstellar travel will have to use some sort of "shortcut" rather than trying to make the trip in relativistic time. Who wants to go someplace and then go home where thousands of years may have passed?

IF the little grey guys are real they may still not be aliens. They may be our future coming back to check us out like we might do if we could go back and check out Homo-Erectus or the Neanderthals. Lots of questions and very few answers.

 

Speed is the issue as at even 10% light speed a grain of sand will penetrate meters of ships hull! so a force field of some sort is essential even for short trips.
It is the chief cause of satellite failure now and those suckers are slow! 40,000kmph max
so either some sort of super material or a forcefield is needed just for survivability

Just look at bird strike problems with planes now and those planes are subsonic!

 

All the speed you may need is to get out of the gravity well and then you move out of regular space and are elsewhere with no physical movement through regular space. You don't need to drive 300 or 400 miles per hour in a car on surface streets to get to the airport. If you tried the end result would be much the same as something in real space as it reached even a small percentage of the speed of light.

As your speed increases your mass grows. Theoretically at light speed your mass would be nearly infinite and you might suck the entire known universe into your path. Also when you approach light speed you will reach the event horizon and time will stop. It is all enough to give a person a headache. Einstein hypothesized that time, from the perspective of the traveler would stay the same but to the perspective of someone outside it slowed and slowed until at light speed it stops. Since as you approach this your mass grows to the point that to go faster would require infinite power and since that isn't possible we could only reach a certain point and that would be it. Sort of like terminal velocity of a falling object in the atmosphere.

 

If one was to use a gravity drive it would be for deep space only as a gravity drive inside a solar system will in most probability have disasterous effects on that solar system!
Time and the speed of light thingy is still theory and iffy at that.

Atomic drives are the next thing for space engines! feed water into a reactor and use the plasma to drive the craft!

 

As you pointed out earlier traveling at a speed anywhere near the speed of light or even a tenth would be a disaster looking for a place to happen. Inertia is a beast and mass is there even when weight is absent. I can't imagine the impact of a marble sized rock hitting something that was traveling at that sort of speed.

Until we do it it will all always be a theory but there are places in the fine print that seem to allow for holes in the space time fabric. Some may be naturally made but there is also a possibility that they could be created. It is sort of like the discussion about what happens at the event horizon in a black hole.

Einstein worked hard on a unified field theory as did Hawkins but so far it hasn't come together. It may be that everything, matter, space and time are all "frequencies" of some sort and once understood may be rather easily manipulated. Look how we managed with the rather simple E=MC2. We often seem to move rather suddenly ahead as soon as something previously misunderstood becomes understood.

The absolutely impossible has a way of becoming common place very fast at times in history. Last years magic can become tomorrows science. I spend or waste as you please a lot of time pondering these questions.

 

Agree Texdanm...in that realistic deep space travel will need a short cut.

I am hearing that there are people looking at this from a standpoint of juggling or manipulating time itself. No clue how this would be done.

The Hollywood expression would be "Folding Space " itself.
Our linear types of propulsion would not satisfactorily work over long space distances. We would need a type of Non Linear propulsion..and the thinking/understanding to work with it.


About the little grey guys..

The reading I have done on them is that they have no sex organs as in the case of humans. This would indicate to me that they are clones...manufactured....for whatever purpose or design needed.

This is not as far fetched as it may initially seem. For a clone is what you get when people have primarily a television and or movie education...in emoting....a one track mind....controllable right into a voting booth as needed....a programmed machine/automaton.

You only need them to do a range of jobs/tasks...then shut them down as needed or restart/reprogram them.

My non Ishmaelite .02,

Watcherchris

 

I have wondered a few times if the grays might not be android creations that are sort of made on the spot when the ship reaches its destination. Find a planet check the atmosphere and gravity then make something that can function there. It is possible that another civilization might be more biologically advanced than strictly mechanical inclined. From the general descriptions they don't seem to be much more than the minimal in musculature and as you pointed out no visible reproductive organs. Making them on the spot would greatly reduce the size and complexity of the ship. When you are done with them they can be recycled back into component parts and stored until needed again.

I think that there are many aspects of what we call dimensions. I can easily imagine thirty versions of our 3 spacial dimensions and at least six versions of time where time is just a state of entropy on each sidereal dimension. They may be expressed as "frequencies" of a sort and by changing the "frequency" of something you would change its place through a sidereal dimension and then reenter your home dimension elsewhere. Congruences may already exist and are the postulated worm holes. There are problems in the numbers having to do with black holes that I think have to do with a dimensional connection and dark matter and dark energy.

 

Interesting to me that you should use this type of phrasing in your impression of how it works.

I have heard that there are as many as ten dimensions...though It has been awhile and the details are fuzzy.

As to the frequencies. I have heard similar....that they can just tune into and or out of existence...as if one changes a frequency dial on a radio...and they are gone....and then reappearing as if the dial has been brought back. Some of this characteristic exists on video...disappearing in thin air..and then reappearing suddenly in a slightly different location.. ..in like manner to how they disappeared...like a switch was thrown and unthrown.

That is how some of us used to disappear in the Olde CB days...a slider wherein we could tune in manually some 10 or more KC of frequency shift...enabling us to disappear a half a channel down or up...or even entirely to an RC frequency not available on most stock CB radios. Thus we could disappear if needed. Learning to juggle a phase lock loop...juggling frequencies helped too...in disappearing.


Thanks,
Watcherchris

Not an Ishmamelite

 

Some see the dimensions as like pages in a book. Others see them more like layers in an onion. I visualize them like a huge braided rope made from smaller braided pieces made of many individual strands. In a given length of the rope every strand touches every other strand at some point. The total number may be infinite. How many frequencies are there? If we could manage to move from one strand to another and then return to our original strand at the next connection the distance as see on our original strand could be much greater than how far we traveled on the other strand.

For me to imagine that we are alone in all the infinite space and on all the possibly infinite dimensions would be sad and lonely. It would be like a barren couple that had always wished for children that they could never have.

 

chris, my point is that a highly respected fighter pilot / astronaut (someone that is 100% reliable) saw and reported an alien spacecraft and it was covered up for years until he publized it . so what else has been covered up. just imagine the political fallout from the roman catholic church for example when it becomes know that there are not alone .
Bill

 

The Roman Catholic Church has actually come out and stated that the possibility of alien life, even intelligent alien life is within their belief system and acceptable. I'm sure that God appreciates their acceptance and permission.

 

I really do understand the skepticism that many feel. My problem is that I have seen something that I can't explain in any other way. What I saw was not possibly anything that could be mistaken as a normal flying craft. It has been about 40 years now since my encounter and there STILL is nothing like it flying around. That is an awful long time for an experimental craft to stay hidden and the technology not to show up. What I saw was almost the size of a football field, it was flying low about a hundred feet up, It was sort of triangle shaped like the space shuttle and was moving VERY slowly at about 30 MPH totally silently with no ground effect at all. It went right over me. It had lit window on the upper forward bow and after it passed the rear had a big round hole with lights in it that made me thing of an infinity mirror. Once passed me and about a quarter to half a mile away the lights went out and it was just GONE.

I have talked to a man that is an aerospace aeronautical engineer that worked on the design team for the space shuttle and he says that that shape could never fly from lift generate at that speed. He also assured me that he didn't know of any experimental craft that were in development that could do what I described. He worked for over 20 years for NASA and is as puzzled as I am about it.

No little green guys, just a what the hell is THAT sort of experience. When I was young I wanted to be an aeronautical engineer and was VERY into aircraft and space stuff. I wanted to go there and build the space stations that I expected us to have all over the place by now. The engineer that I mentioned is my Uncle and I got to have a lot of great behind the scenes tours of NASA. I have seen all manner of flying things including many encounters with the Goodyear blimps. Another Uncle was a SAC Airforce Senior Master Sargent and I got to see the big bombers up close and was on base twice when they scrambled!! I also am very interested in astronomy and know the planets and common bright stars. This was a UFO then and still is unidentified...

I am by nature a skeptic. I used to go "ghost" hunting and always figured out what the deal was and busted the story except once that I still have no explanation for except for the possibility that as a kid I misinterpreted a moving shadow. I believe that there is a lot of life out there in the nearly infinite universe but have a problem wondering why if Aliens are visiting us that nobody has come up with some iron clad proof. On the other side though I can't explain why so many people, myself included, keep seeing things that are VERY obviously not normal. I was raised in a swamp. Swamp gas is not what people are seeing. Meteorites don't go back ad forth. Venus looks nothing like a flying saucer.

If it isn't aliens, then what is causing this and has been causing these sighting for thousands of years. Neigh Sayers just say no and make up often stupid explanations. Why aren't we seriously looking into this and trying to figure out what is causing people that are not trying to grab their 15 minutes of fame to see and often anonymously report these sighting? Even if it is some sort of human psychological thing, that in itself is worthy of study.

 

Once I got out of the military and finished undergrad work as the U of Maryland, everything I did was in the aerospace and defense business except for a year as a fifth grade teacher and three years as a musician. From '67 to 74 I worked for the IBM corporation, Federal Systems Division, which was the prime contractor to NASA for their ground-based computer systems during Gemini, Apollo, and ASTP. At Motorola Government Electronics Group I worked on classified satellites and my last 20 years, at The Boeing Company, I worked on various sensitive aircraft systems.

I'm not saying this to blow my own horn, because scut-work is scut-work no matter who signs your paycheck. I just want to mention that my beliefs, like those of other people, are driven to a large extent by what and where we studied in school, and what we learned by working at the jobs we did over out lifetimes. On the other hand, a lot of our beliefs are also driven by what we WANT to believe, by WISHFUL THINKING, and sometimes by what we have learned about RELIGION and spirituality.

I've found it's not so much WHAT we believe as much as WHY we believe in things that drives our view of the Universe, and in some cases, whether or not we're amenable to hearing others and considering others' views.

 

Basically my belief that there is other life out there someplace is based on the just unimaginably scope of both time and places that life could have occurred someplace else at some time. Most people have a hard time understanding numbers and odds. Most if told that something is one in a million they look at it as being nearly impossible. If it is one and a million that there is someone in the US with a certain set of things that make him special it is almost a certainty that there are more like him in a population of 350 million. If the odds of life arising is one in a trillion then given the length of time and the number of galaxies and planets then it is beyond a certainty that life is not unique. With all of that said the same numbers make the likely hood of us meeting them or detecting their presence in any given year is similar to the odds of two bullets fired in a battle hitting each other
.

 

By using our planet and the evolution of intelligence as a base line it is not at all odd that we have not yet picked up a signal with SETI. Out of billions of years man has only been making noise that you could "hear" for 150 years max. That means that only planets withing 150 light years that already have the technology to listen could possibly hear us.

Unless we are all sort of crazy I don't know how much longer we will be making noise. Between the many various natural disasters and man's predilection for violence it isn't likely that we will be making noise much longer unless we make big and sudden changes before something knocks us off the air.

 

I was referring to the pure mathematics of the situation. Like you I have seen something that I don't think was man made by our current technology. What I saw over 30 years ago is still not something even on the horizon technologically.

I know that when you live out in the country you have more opportunity to see things in the sky. I've had three sightings but one was up close and obviously not anything man made.

 

The ONLY thing that we have made that was this big would have been a Zeppelin. Zeppelins don't EVER move like that thing did. First it was low slow and totally silent and when right over me. then it was gone like a jet getting off an air craft carrier but still totally silent! ???? All questions and no answers.

 

I don't believe in darwinism. I do believe in "UFOs", but I don't think the beings guiding them are interplanetary in origin. IMO, what we call "ETs" are actually fallen angels.

 

Wow!!! I too have heard that version of which you speak Sonofliberty. That they are not at all from outer space...but from Inner space...many of them originating from underwater sources. I have also heard stories that they have been identified quite well.

MY non Ishmaelite .02,

Watcherhris