Facing Facts. What Will It Take?

Discussion in 'The Apocalypse' started by Keith H., May 27, 2018.

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  1. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Facing Facts. What will it take?

    I haven’t written a list to work from here, just thoughts as they occur, so I suggest you jot down any of your own thoughts when reading this & use them in your reply to this post. There is bound to be things that I have missed & it is good to get other people’s perspective.

    Okay, let us assume something has gone down & you have to leave your present abode & go bush, what can you expect to have to do to stay as safe as possible under the circumstances. For one you will have to stay alert all the time, even if you are at your retreat or you’re off the grid home, your life will be under threat 24/7! This can be very stressful, but you will not be able to drop your guard unless you are in a secure place & there are others taking their turn on watch.

    If you are on the trail, there will be no lighting of fires, so no warmth from fire & no cooking, no warm food. This means you will have to carry foods that do not require cooking.

    Shelter: You will not be erecting a shelter, come rain or snow you cannot afford to make yourself visible. Tents are an absolute NO, they stand out too much, camo pattern included. So what will you have to do? You will have to roll yourself up in a canvas or oil cloth somewhere hidden by brush, rocks, in a hollow log or a hollow tree or in low ground. Bear in mind that anyone else on the trail will also be looking for likely places to camp so hide yourself well. If there are two or more of you then take turns at keeping watch, but the watch will still have to be reasonable well hidden.

    Don’t zip yourself up in a sleeping bag, you can’t protect yourself stitched up in a bag, & you can’t move fast enough from inside a bag. Pure wool blankets are the best choice. Keep weapons close to hand so they can be used in an instant. You don’t have to wear camo clothing, but you will need to stick to earth colours, no bright coloured clothing!

    When you stop for a break on the trail DO NOT take off your pack! Stay as you are so that you are ready to move or run at a moment’s notice. You may be able to throw yourself into a hidden place, in which case you don’t want your pack left sitting in the open. If you have to run for it, you cannot afford to leave your pack behind, & you will not be able to move as well carrying your pack in your hand as you would if it were on your back.

    Animal trails are the easiest way to travel, but if you are wearing modern footwear you are likely to leave sign. Moccasins can leave sign too, but the print does not show as clearly as the tread on a modern boot & may go unseen by all but a trained tracker. If you are wearing modern boots with a tread, stay off clear ground trails. If you are in a group & crossing open ground, spread out so you do not leave a clear trodden trail.

    If you can follow a water course, this is a good idea. This will mean you have a constant source of drinking water & the chance of trapping or hunting game. Always boil the water if you can, with a no fire rule early on this will not be possible, but there are tablets you can use to purify water.

    Take care when collecting water not to leave any boot prints in the mud or on the bank.

    Toilet: If you were pursued by military with dogs, then your best bet is to defecate in a plastic bag, add a rock, tie the bag well & drop in a river or creek. Other than this choose a place well away from the trail & cover it well. Smell & or buzzing flies are a dead giveaway that someone has defecated close-by!

    Foods: for trail food I suggest a mix of nuts, sunflower seeds, raisins or sultanas & chocolate bits in a bag. This will keep you going on the trail, it is nutritious & tasty & it may be the only comfort you will get for the first few days.

    DO NOT weigh yourself down with modern gadgets that are going to self destruct with time! You have more important things to carry such as medical supplies, ammunition, water & food. It will be quite a while before you can afford to hunt or trap & cook game, you may forage along the way but ONLY along your path, do not stray! So take plenty of dried foods & foods that you can eat without cooking.

    Can anyone add more information or suggestions here?
    Keith.
     
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  2. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    if we are talking on a personal level then I don't really expect to have to leave here, I am several hundreds miles away from any large city and even if people from the city were to leave that city there are many directions they could go not just this one, I do not subscribe to the "golden horde" theory not in the UK for several reasons.
    most preppers in the UK think I have bugged out already because of my current location.
    I have a list of places, about 6 or 7, I could relocate to should the event ever arise. these locations have been located and scouted by me in advance of any event.
    the trouble with bugging out is that most people would have to leave most of their preps behind as they would only be able to carry a fraction of what they had stockpiled, mostly food, water, weapons, some tools, and a sleeping bag and tarp would probably be the sum total, I have heard of people saying they can carry 50lbs on their backs for 50 miles but that is just bravado talking, we aren't all Rambo's!!:)
     
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  3. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Agreed, we see a lot of lists of equipment etc, but I very much doubt these people even know where on their person they will carry it let alone how. Time to leave is not the time to start thinking about such things. Even Rambo is old now!
    Keith.
     
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  4. Tumbleweed

    Tumbleweed Expert Member
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    We live in a moderate-sized city, and both myself and my husband are not prepared for any serious disaster. Since we live close to what would probably be a strike area if a war happens, we might not even know what hit us if the arsenal were bombed.
    Neither of us is in shape for survival living, in any case; so what we try to do is be prepared for any short-term emergencies that we can survive right here at home.
    I miss living out in the country, and having chickens and livestock; but I also know that I am not physically able to care for them anymore if I did live where I could have them.
    There is not much sense in preparing for something that I know I can’t do; so we just work at being ready for surviving things that we do have a chance at surviving.
     
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  5. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    My mind is wandering a bit, therefore that which follows is not anything to be described as thought-out. There will be gaps of logic. When I first read the title, "What will it take?" I thought they were talking about what will it take to set of a SHTF event. However, it was bug-out gear.

    Back to basics

    Water, shelter, food packaged air-tight/water-tight, heat/fire-building -- such are the things of life for the human species.

    You'll likely not be able to take enough water, so you need water purification. Katadyn makes the best water filters = they are Swiss therefore expensive. Charcoal filters will help get bad tastes out the water. Dump in a pack of powdered drink mix to flavor the water and cover bad tastes.

    Your vehicle can be shelter and you can extend the roof of your vehicle with a tarpaulin. Use the brass eyelets to tie-off to trees. Shape the tarp to run rainwater off to desired location, i.e. not your head. These aluminum "space blankets" come in handy. Spray water-protectant on coats & outdoor wear, boots and such.

    Come up with your own food selection. I can't help you with that.

    Fire-building. There are all manner of fire-starter packs that burn HOT -- even dangerously hot, so be careful with them. Get strike-anywhere matches, or hurricane matches, or primitive spark-throwers and the flammables that go with them. Don't keep liquid fuel in your vehicle -- that's asking for trouble.

    In America, take a rifle. In England, make or buy some sort of sharp pokey-slashy thingy. Other "people" may wish to take what you have. Knuckle-draggers do not deserve life, but here they are among us.

    Tools, I could go on forever, however ... here's a few: knives, short axe, wire saw, small military folding shovel, wrecking bar, rope (the best that you can afford) and cord, pulley for rope (don't use a tree limb as a pulley) ... OK, there's sentence #1. Let me think. Take regular toolbox that you'll already have in your vehicle for normal repair jobs (screwdrivers, hammer, pliers, ...). A hand-wench (sometimes called a "come-along", has lever handle) could come in handy. I keep a small radio-sized air compressor for inflating tires along with a tire-repair kit -- such has bailed me out; I love them; once had the hose tear loose, so be careful with these puppies. Make sure your spare tire is inflated -- and keep a real spare tire; throw it on the roof if you have to. Or, buy run-flat tires -- expensive, the better ones.

    Always keep a wrecking bar, rope, and metal connectors/hooks/pulley in your vehicle. You never know when you will have to extract a person and/or vehicle. May be you yourself.

    Most fire extinguishers are petty ... at best, petty. Here's a funky product: https://www.amazon.com/Extinguisher...5227&sr=8-8&keywords=fire+extinguisher+powder

    There are better fire-suppression powders today than in decades past.

    There's the matter of communications equipment. I will refer you to others concerning this topic. I've got a son to ask.

    Hats are good. Safety helmets better. While working under and around trees, think about this, what if your metal hook flies loose right above you. That "small" limb you see actually weighs 87 pounds.

    Lunchtime
     
  6. TexDanm

    TexDanm Master Survivalist
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    I have a nylon tarp in camo that is strong water resistant and folds down to almost nothing. The same is true of my hammocks. For warmth and etra shelter use I have a survival blanket that also double as a big poncho. It is fairly light and also super warm and waterproof. I would like to add a wool blanket because they can be worn as a coat or sarape but lord it is heavy when wet!

    A small trenching tool is worth the weight for so many things and in a pinch can be a vicious weapon if the edges are sharpened. Mine can actually be used as a light ax.

    I plastic drop cloth can turn a big pile of leaves into a snug cold weather shelter. Pile your debris then add the plastic sheet then pile limbs on top of that and crawl under and into the warm den. If you do it right in a shallow depression on the side of a hill it is almost impossible to spot.

    I like trail mix made out of parched corn, nuts, raisins, sunflower seeds and M&Ms. I also think that a product called Survival Tabs is worth thinking about. They will give you 400 calories a day and most of the vitamins and mineral you need to keep you going. It is also low mass and doesn't make you use up a lot of water in the digestion. The average person can survive for about 6 months on 400 calories a day. That takes the pressure off of having to find and eat raw foods.

    Have a good water filter and purification tablets. You will also need a good way to carry water.I also carry a straw or some tubing. This will allow you to drink water out of fresh rain puddles without disturbing or muddying the water in a shallow puddle. It would also allow you drink the fresh water off the top of saltwater in coastal areas. Fresh water is lighter than salt water and will make a layer on top of the saltwater in a calm puddle after a rain or in a hole that you dig a little back off the beach that will slowly fill.

    Guns are great but if you use one everybody within a mile knows you are there. You will need a weapon for close in dispatching of animals or foes but you will also want something that allows you to do it with out getting close enough to be injured by a knife. Bows and arrows, Atlatl and darts or a spear make you a lot safer if you have to take someone or something down.

    There are a lot of advantages to learning how to move around at night. It is a SKILL that can be learned. I will probably be a mostly nocturnal mover then lay up and hide during the day. If you will keep the flash lights turned off and not stare at the moon your eyes will adapt to the darkness to a surprising degree. Most people never experience this because we spend our lives now surrounded by lights. Also you "see" at night out of the edges of your sight. Don't look directly at what you want to see. The center of your field of vision is the least sensitive to light since you have spent your life looking right at the well lit things. The edges are much more sensitive and allow you to see things in the edges that you are blind to if you look at it straight on. It has to do with the location of the cones and rods in your retina I believe.

    Get as far into the bush as you can. Think like a rabbit. Find a big hairy briar patch and crawl into it and you won't be found or bothered. The farther you can get from any large gathering of people the better at first for sure. When people get hungry and start to panic you don't want to be anywhere around them. I assure you that within 3 weeks of a fall cannibalism will resurface with a vengeance. It isn't something that people like to consider but it was common on EVERY continent in the past. When people get hungry enough they WILL eat and once they cross this line they become the most dangerous predator there is!
     
  7. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    This post is not really about equipment, it is about making people face the fact that those early days of leaving the city are not going to be a hay ride! No fires, no tents, no shining torches around at night. Comfort is relative, I am comfortable in the bush without a tent or a fire or a hot drink or cooked food. Yes I like these things but they are not a necessity.
    Keith.
     
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  8. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    when moving about post SHTF I prefer the lay up during the major part of the day, move 1hour before and 1 hour after dawn, the same at dusk, there aren't liable to be many people about at these times, movement during the main part of the day can be easily spotted. any fires need to be smokeless, smoke will give away your location, so no burning damp wood.
     
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  9. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    I tend to agree mate, but then again there are a lot of variables. For instance, best time to spot a fire is at night, so if I were on the lookout for people I would be looking at night as well as day. I actually found an escapee this way in West Australia.
    Then again if I want to cover ground fast, 2 hours a day would not get me far enough quick enough. Once I have the distance, I agree, just before light & go to ground before sun up. Move again at sundown until too dark to see. Full moon I could get a lot of distance covered just taking my time.
    If you are in a forest, make your fire near a green tree, the smoke will stick to the tree until it escapes from the canopy. Bury the remains of the fire though before you leave.
    Keith.
     
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  10. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    sorry mate you misread, its 1 hour before and after dawn and 1 hour before and 1 hour after dusk, so its 4 hours a day in total.
    not that I shall be moving any great distance, I can probably get to any of my prospective bol's within one day as I am already in the remotest location in the county, its just means moving a bit further out, but I agree if one is trying to escape from a big city one would have to get away from the immediate area first and that probably dosent matter if its day or night there are bound to be lots of people about.
    i'd be inclined to get all cooking done before dark, then put the fire out so it cant be seen in the dark.
     
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  11. TexDanm

    TexDanm Master Survivalist
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    Most of the sheeple will never see this. They are the same people that build on the sides of volcanos or like the fools in New Orleans that live in a hole 12 feet below sea level and were to stupid to leave even when a cat 5 hurricane was bearing down on them.

    The problem is that for millions of years being stupid was a self curing problem for a population. Stupid people got killed by their stupidity and their kids didn't survive childhood. Survival of the fittest is judged by how many of your descendants will populate the future generations. In the past smart people had more successful children and stupid people just didn't measure up in this way.

    Two things have turned this upside down. First off birth control allowed people to decide how many children they wanted and could support. Smart people unfortunately chose to have fewer kids so they could give them all a better life. Stupid people can't or won't control their reproduction. In the past that meant that your kids starved and were unhealthy and prone to disease.

    The second thing that has happened is that we now feed the stupid people, clothe them, put them in good housing and even give them money so they can buy drugs and booze. We more or less encourage them to have as many children as possible by offering them more and more of everything based on how many bastard children that they can pop out. The Fathers are generally "unknown" that way the males don't have to support the children. I call them males because they are not really men. They are just male humanoid primates.

    What this has been doing and is doing is slowly, but with an ever increasing pace, the human race in the more civilized nations is being bred down. Each generation is going to be stupider than the one before until we are no longer viable or we wake up and change some things. As far as I'm concerned if you can't support yourself or the children that you have having more kids is child abuse.

    If you have two kids and want welfare you should be fixed to put a stop to the baby factory. If you want welfare you should be drug tested. If you can't stay off of drugs you will never get a job and get off welfare. Take the kids, place them in loving homes where they can be taught to be more than baby factories and drug sellers or whores and after sterilizing the male and females involved let them go and either get straight, get a job or starve to death.

    If you look at the numbers and correlate the ratio of kids versus the household income what you will find is a totally backwards slope where the more money a family has the fewer kids and the less money the more kids they have. Stupid people really don't care about their kids. The poor kids are born doomed to a life of poverty and mostly ignorance. Stupid people have no use for knowledge past what it takes to get their welfare. Their kids will never be encouraged to work hard in school. There are no books in their house. They will wallow and glory in their ignorance.

    I'm sorry Kieth but the percentage of people that are on the left hand side of the bell curve is a growing number and most of them will never learn and are little more than loose fodder for the next disaster to wipe out. Even the people that are not just totally dumb as a box of rocks are being encouraged in the educational system to not think. I have known people of reasonable intelligence that considered the use of multi syllable words as showing off and dumb. They CHOSE to be ignorant and stupid???

    What we saw in New Orleans when Katrina hit is what you will see everywhere if something disastrous happens. Even if there is a warning it will be ignored. The stupid will sit there and expect someone to come save them if anything really does happen. When the lights go off and things break down the first though of most of the stupid will be to loot and steal. Then they will start to kill each other. No cops means that if you never did like your neighbor this is the time to kill him.

    When the food is gone and the survivors realize that they have to leave they will do so while fighting and killing anyone that has some food that can't defend it. By the time the population of a big city has managed to actually leave the immediate area of the city and gotten maybe 40 or 50 miles out the number will be less than 25% of the original population of the city. People just are no longer able to just head out and walk 50 miles. The people that live over 50 miles from the big city are not going to be very welcoming.

    At that 50 mile mark the refugees that have survived will be in bad shape. Nobody will want them and if they try to force their way in they will be killed easily. A city thug with an assault rifle is no challenge for a country boy with a deer rifle. After a couple of locals get killed strangers carrying guns may be shoot on sight in many areas.

    If you live in a big city you need to have a plan that will let you get out ahead of the masses. Staying in place just isn't an option and trying to go later may be even worse. The only way that I see that you can stay in place in a big city would be to have a big secret underground bunker that you could get into close the door and stay there for at the very least 6 months, better would be a year. The cities are going to burn. Anything above ground will possibly burn or be broke into by starving masses.

    If the disaster were to hit in the dead of winter I'm not sure that most of the people in the Northern cities would be able to survive at all.
     
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  12. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Arrrr, I never was any good at ciphering:(
    Keith.
     
  13. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Another good post Tex.
    Keith.
     
  14. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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  15. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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  16. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    maybe i'm not so good at explaining my theories.:)
     
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  17. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    in Britain I think most people have lost the ability to think for themselves, they are so used to having everything provided for them, in some cases "from cradle to grave" as we say over here. if something bad happens its always someone else's fault.
    if you look at a map of the UK its not just a matter of getting out of a big city, although that would be hard enough by itself, but the whole area is so built up that getting out of the area into a more non urban setting would be a monumental task . and how do they decide where to go? north south east west? anyone that is just wandering about hoping to fall across food, water and shelter is not likely to survive for long, even less in the winter months.
     
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  18. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Well room & wilderness is something we have a lot of in Australia, no lack of choices for city people to bug out to if they have a mind. If I was still living in West Sussex in England, I would probably head for Goodwood Forest (if it is still there!!!). I know where there is a hidden underground WW2 bunker in Goodwood Forest, I think I could find it again.
    Keith.
     
  19. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I think there is a completely different mindset in the UK than to say 50 years ago, 80% of the population are now urban based with urban attitudes, we are 4 generations on average removed from the land. most people don't know where there food comes from, how its produced or even in some cases which animal it comes from.
     
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