Good Advice Or Abdication?

Discussion in 'Urban Survival' started by Morgan101, Jun 11, 2019.

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  1. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    I have recently seen You Tube videos from both Sweden and Norway where the governments of each country are encouraging all citizens to prepare. In the case of Sweden they even intimate that they could be preparing for war.

    While it is always sound advice to encourage people to prepare somehow this just struck me as a federal level government abdicating its responsibility to protect the people. I couldn't tell you why. It is just a gut feeling that I get watching these videos.

    Here are the links. What do you think?



     
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  2. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    I don't see it as an abdication of their responsibilities but an ACKNOWLEDGEMENT that it does not have the ability to cover all the bases completely. If we as a society are prepared, then the government will be able to focus more on defending vs. feeding the population. JM2C
     
  3. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    I think it is a good idea, no one should rely on the government for help or protection.
    Keith.
     
  4. Caribou

    Caribou Expert Member
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    The governments can't help everyone. I think they are both acknowledging their limitations. They both mentioned war as a reason to prep. I think the 3 day idea is to prevent people from freaking out. In the second video he was worried about what people would think of him for being a prepper.

    The American government also suggests that people prep. Of course half the government thinks you are a domestic terrorist if you prepare like the other half suggests.

    I was in the first CERT Instructor course put on by the federal government. At the time they suggested that people acquire three days worth of food and water. I thought the course was almost useless a my population base would, as a rule, have to toss out a lot of food to get down to three days. I ran an air ambulance for a couple years and my response times were anywhere from two hours to a week. If I went to a village for a day trip I was prepared for a week because I could, and did, get weather bound. Even if things were beautiful around my home there were several times when Anchorage Airport, 400 miles away, was closed, due to volcanic ash, for over a week straight. All our freight came through Anchorage Airport except for a few barges in the summer.
     
  5. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Morgan,

    At the national level, focused to the US Government, we've already learned that protecting the population must start at the lowest level. The Civil Defense fallout shelters and CD pamphlets established this.

    The US has numerous programs encouraging the citizenry to prep. This has formally been filtered down to the state level. Here we have a pamphlet titled "Ready Virginia - Get a kit, Make a plan, Stay informed". Question: Why should a citizen obtain a sleeping bag or blanket when the government will "hand out" / issue a blanket ?

    If all this stuff isn't taught in the schools as a major basic subject on the same level as math, social studies,...it's a waste of time.

    Some foreign governments have visible national prep programs as a condition to get that large loan or grant from one of the finance agencies eg UN's Office of Disaster Mitigation, Asian Development Bank. Without quality government, these prep programs are pro forma at best.
     
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  6. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Master Survivalist
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    Good idea, though not carried far enough imo. Still prepping is better than being caught unprepared.
     
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  7. Travis.s

    Travis.s Expert Member
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    Where I'm from the government has a guideline for basic minimum requirements every one should have for emergencies but not many know them.

    Maybe the government should actively encourage it instead of just having the information just siting there.

    Or maybe people should be more proactive but if you don't know where to start it's a little harder.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
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  8. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    I agree Travis, the government should put it out there. But the fact is, not many people really care, so they are not going to ask for it.
    Keith.
     
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  9. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    It seems that most people are just too... stupid I guess... to think ahead and actually act on it. I was raised on the Gulf coast and was always astounded that most people made almost no preparations for a storm until it was less than 24 hours from landing on top of them.

    People seem to want to avoid even thinking about bad things happening to them. I've also noticed that when things start to pop around them that a lot of them seem to go brain dead. I have seen people breaking down and crying because they couldn't find any bottled water. They had water coming out of their taps!! Go fill up some jugs! I've seen people sitting in lines that were miles long less than 24 hours after a storm to bet bottled water MREs and ice. Most still had water on tap, a freezer full of food and in some cases still had power.

    Over the last century life in America has become so easy and protected that the stupid have bred like rats and even those not born stupid have been encouraged by our messed up educational system to never think, look it up, ask an expert, wait for the government to tell you what to do...

    Maybe a few will pay attention to government warnings but I seriously doubt it. for one thing that seems to go against current human nature and also the governments spend so much time lying to us to get elected and then to line their pockets while in office that nobody much believes anything that comes out of the mouth of an elected government official...
     
  10. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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  11. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    governments don't help anyone but themselves.
    in a disaster they will be useless, we have our own examples of this over here.
     
  12. watcherchris

    watcherchris Master Survivalist
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    Agree with TexDanm....

    Same idiot pattern going on here in Virginia. People wait until the last minute to prepare.

    I try to buy electronic gadgets for Preps around the same battery type...failing that I buy spare batteries like for my Baofeng dual band walkie talkies...but always have some kind of spare batteries.

    In my case it is AA type batteries for my short wave radio as well as my hand crank Grundig radio. It has a set of rechargeable phone batteries in it as well as regular AA type and I buy the AA types in 40 packs. I have three 40 packs and try to keep four AA batteries on me at all times for my Mag Lite.

    I by 1/8 inch nylon rope ...from Lowes to tie down gear outside that I cannot bring into my garage or house. I buy duct tape in several rolls at a time ..and replace or use it up through out the year.

    Point here is be aware of this stuff and don't wait until the last minute to get it ..when everyone else is insanely competing for it. You should already have this stuff on hand a month or more before anything happens.

    Keep your prescription medicines stocked up..it may be some time before the Chemist/pharmacy gets electricity...after an event.

    Until my elderly parents passed I was helping to take care of them and their needs as well...prescriptions...a generator and fuel for their refrigerated medicines too..

    You need all this stuff pre positioned and ready well before any event because as TexDanm aptly illustrated...all too many people wait until the last minute to stock up..and the shelves/cupboards are bare.

    Gasoline stocks....I rotate these supplies ...and use it up through the year..both two cycle and also four cycle...but rotate it/use it up and refill...

    Most of this is with my generators in mind....but so too my scooters..with a lot of debris on the roadways it might not be that easy to get around on four wheels in places.

    And op check your generators on occasion...they will get a case of arthritis if you don't periodically run them.

    Do not wait for government to cover you with a security blanket in an emergency ....handle it yourself and keep your preps silent...to yourself.


    But TexDanm is right on the money about the basic nature of many many people out here.

    They can get ready for tonight's game on the television but not for emergencies. Emergencies are someone else's responsibility to take care of for them...they are "Victims."

    But how about those Kardashians????

    When the SHTF ...some of these people will be looking at you and yours for freebies because you have prepared....becauses they are "Victims."

    Remember what I said about my friend across the River....after Hurricane Isabelle...someone ran an extension cord to his generator from four houses down and did not even ask if they could hook up....entitlement.

    They were overloading his generator with such a long run of extension chords. The line losses on that much extension cord have to be high.

    He unplugged them and threw the cord over the fence. They could have damaged his generator and ruined conditions for everyone...darned Ishmaelite entitled freeloaders.

    Again by TexDanm..
    Right in the bullseye...here.

    BeWarned.


    My non Ishmaelite .02,

    Watcherchris
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
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  13. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Tex Dan,

    A great, to the point, essay on the current state of the nation !

    I do ask to add a word to the expression "so easy and protected". That word is "subsidized". Middle America's Jacks and Jills must pay taxes and additional user fees to support the lazy and arrogant.

    Very, very few pay attention to government warnings. That's why the 911 emergency call system later gets saturated and overloaded.
     
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  14. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    I am beginning to fear you, TexDanm. Have you been, are you now, stealing thoughts right out of my head? If you are, then make some sort of note in your replies that such is your practice. I demand this!

    OK, so I'll go take my meds, but hear me now, stop listening to what I'm thinking! And too, there's the danger factor of getting into my fetid brain.

    upload_2019-6-15_12-19-1.png
     
  15. watcherchris

    watcherchris Master Survivalist
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    On my end and just before hurricane Isabelle made landfall....I took in some people as I was the only one with a generator.

    I took in a number of people and one a woman with a baby daughter. She brought a swing gadget. To my surprise it took batteries. I was accustomed to the ones which were spring wind up to operate the swing and apparently her's required four D Cell batteries. I was not about to give up the four D cells back then in my short wave AM/FM radio. I told her she would have to manually swing or push the child.

    Her response was ...when her man gets there she would send him out to get batteries.

    What a bloody air head....Just run to the store and get some D cell batteries along with a thousand other people looking for batteries. She had no clue that the cub board would be empty of almost all kinds of batteries. She should have covered this weeks before.

    I told her point blank that her man was not going anywhere when he got to the house..he was staying put and she could push the baby in the swing..

    The next day when the storm had blown by...the exit on our street had a large tree across it...the neighbors with saws got together and cut it up and pushed it off the roadway. Someone could have gotten crushed trying to get out to find batteries for a baby swing. That is precisely how intelligent was that woman's thinking process. Other people are expendable and disposable for her and her babies comfort levels. Talk about a high maintenance air head.

    This world is full of these types.

    I make no such plans in the next storm to take in people. It was an important lessons learned experience and TexDanm is precisely correct in his post...about the basic nature of many out there....Ishmaelites...willing to put others in bondage and danger for their ease and or convenience. A huge empty gap/void between their ears.


    My non Ishamelite .02,
    Watcherchris
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
  16. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Master Survivalist
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    That child would be better off if you had sent the "mother" out to get those batteries.
     
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  17. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Never underestimate the stupidity in humans and you will never be disappointed.
     
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  18. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Welfare is a trap both for the lower middle class and those that are on it. It is hard to work and know that the people on welfare live in nicer homes, eat better, drive newer cars and their kids are better dressed than yours. If you give in and go on welfare there is often no possible way to get off. If you get a job you will lose your benefits and if you aren't real careful you can end up with your family on the streets for trying to get back on your feet.

    Welfare is a government tool for keeping people constantly angry but not angry enough to do anything. The people on welfare hate the people that work and still live below them and the people that work hate the lazy trash that is on welfare and living amazingly high on the hog. Let me tell you, if you are on welfare and NOT hooked on drugs you are close to being like the idle rich in most other countries.

    I think we need to dump welfare. Free daycare and a job for anyone that needs help. If they won't work take their kids away and sterilize them. Refusing to support your kids should be a crime and if you won't work in the free world you WILL work in prison.

    If we would decriminalize drug addiction and treat it instead as a medical issue we would have lots of room in the prisons for trash. That does not mean make drug use legal. If you got addicted and the doctors could offer you a supervised treatment that slowly weaned you off the drug it would really get into the pockets of the dealers.

    The government isn't fighting the war on drugs. they are the CAUSE of the drug problem and its biggest supporters. Any move towards legalization or decriminalization is met with strong resistance and guess who is financing that. The same people that are selling the drugs are often big contributors to political people.

    The government wants to take the guns because once they have disarmed us it is over. Freedom means that you have the power to make changes. That is already mostly gone. The two parties which are much the same in their aims and THEY decide who you get to vote for. Trump has scared the crap out of them. He was rich enough to do it on his own nickel. They will see to it that this doesn't happen again.

    Have you ever considered what exactly it is that they offer us to vote for? These are people whose only real talent is that they make great speeches and can look you right in the eye and lie convincingly. Trump is one of the very few recent leaders that has had any meaningful success other than in politics.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  19. watcherchris

    watcherchris Master Survivalist
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    Nicely and Truly stated TexDanm....Nicely done.

    Watcherchris
    Not an Ishmaelite
     
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  20. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    there will never be 100% employment, there will always be some unemployment and some people that are just unemployable.
     
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  21. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Master Survivalist
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    I have found hunger to be a strong motivator for those who are "unemployable". For those truly unable(not unwilling) to work, we have a multitude of charities.
     
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  22. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    its a bit hard on the charities.
     
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  23. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    While I have always been a proponent of the " work or starve " workfare philosophy one of the hardest things to determine is the difference between the truly needy, and the truly lazy.

    Yes, there are charities, but the more the government steals from the taxpayer, the less the tax payer is willing or able to donate.
     
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  24. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    In the movie World War Z, when they ask the Israelis why they built the wall and prepared for the zombies, they spoke of "The 10th man" The 10th man is the idea that if 9 others think that everything is alright, it is the duty of the 10th man to prepare in case the other 9 are incorrect. In America our government simply ignores the possibility that anything can go wrong and only acts after it does, if at all. Maybe these two countries are seeing the writing on the wall considering the spread of Islam and other possibilities and trying to save their entire population in case the 10th man is correct.

    Just think how well off the United States would be if rather than teach their children that the government will save you and provide everything for you, that every American should be prepared to feed, water, clothe and house themselves. The Japanese did not attack America because they feared there was a rifle behind every blade of grass. What if there was a completely survivable American behind every blade of grass with a rifle? Even an EMP wouldn't help an invading force.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2019
  25. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I think that's the way with most governments, I know it is here in Britain, the government only reacts after something has happened they never prevent something from happening.
     
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  26. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    I guess I am the only one who is reading more into this than is there.

    I am quoting numbers that can be found on line, so just for the sake of argument let's assume they are true, or very close to being true.

    The United States spends 3.1% of our GDP on Military spending. We have an active military force of 1,358,000, a reserve military force of 811,000, and a Paramilitary force of 2.9 million.

    Norway spends 1.6% of their GDP on Military spending. They have an active military of 23,950, and a reserve force of 38,950. They have no Paramilitary force.

    Sweden spends 1.0% of their GDP on Military spending. They have an active military of 29,750 and no reserve force. They have a Paramilitary force of 22,000.

    IMHO Norway and Sweden could not defend themselves from an invasion of MS 13 gang members, much less the Russian Federation, which is right on their doorstep with a military force 10% larger than the United States.

    What I read between the lines in both videos is " We can't protect you, so you have to protect yourselves. " I can protect me and mine from any natural disaster; civil unrest; power outages; some societal breakdown. I surely can't protect myself from an invading army. I am as Libertarian as they come, and I loathe big government, but the number one responsibility of any government is to protect the people.

    I see both the Norwegian and Swedish defense systems as being almost criminally inadequate. As much as I agree with the recommendation to be prepared, both of those governments have a long way to go to be able to protect their own people. They, the Governments, should be stepping up to the plate on preparedness.
     
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  27. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    Iceland is a NATO member therefore they rely on the US to help back them up. Sweden however is not a NATO member.
     
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  28. watcherchris

    watcherchris Master Survivalist
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    By Morgan 101,

    The United States has the capacity and talents to spend that much of their GDP on Military spending...and continue in their economy....sustain it.

    I know this as I work in a shipyard wherein have been built all the Nimitz class Aircraft Carriers and a number of Nuclear attack submarines and this work continues to this day. And now the Ford class carriers.

    For those of you who do not know....about GDP..for example....

    In a nuclear powered vessel....about half the cost of the vessel is in the nuclear power plant alone. This is seldom told to the general public.

    This means some serious GDP available to keep this up through some 10 Nuclear aircraft carriers and also a number of submarines at the same time.

    Most nations would go bankrupt trying to sustain this capacity....

    This is why the French nuclear aircraft carrier is so small....the costs for France would be prohibitive.

    Most nations simply do not have the GDP to support an extensive military and their government philosophies or religions if you like favor social programs...not military. Social programs to keep and maintain votes from the public to keep certain people and parties in office.

    Make no mistake...after awhile you recognize this as a religion....a devout religion and way of life.

    The problem for us here in America is that so many of us are tired and disgusted of being the world's policemen.


    By the way....for those of you who do not know......Russia was never a super power...never....

    They never had enough GDP to produce goods and services for the private economy and the military at the same time.

    This is why when the wall fell...and reporters went into Russia...they discovered the store shelves were empty . Russia never developed the economic infrastructure to produce, deliver , and maintain a live...living viable economy which could produce both classes of goods at the same time....private economy and government/military economy.

    It took everything they had to produce just for their military.

    This is why to this day you do not see Russian Cars at your local dealer....laptops....cell phones ...toasters, washers, dryers and a plethora of other goods for home and family. There were no surpluses in Russia under the Communists.
    They are slowly catching up....albeit slowly.

    The liars and phonies about this are here in America ..not in Russia. Our own government and or public education system has lied and deceived us for over 70 years about this while building Russia up as a super power.

    I think this is what Putin wants from us..the know how of how to mature both sides of an economy ....private and government/military. And the Deep State does not want to lose control of Russia or America by keeping up this hoax on our own people as well as the Russian people.

    I knew something was very wrong in Russia when visitors might get mugged for their Levis and or designer jeans in Russia...way back.

    We have such a high GDP spent on our military because we can ..and at the same time fill our shelves with a plethora of consumer goods.

    Foreigers ...even Englishmen who come here are often stunned at the fullness of our store shelves....understand now??

    This kind of GDP is exceptional in this world..it is not normal...and Most Americans have not a clue. They think what we have is normal...for most of the western world...or even the world.....it is not.

    Americans who have not been outside this country ...few have a clue......but those who have ...know the Truth about this.

    But seldom will this ever be explained or taught to our people in public schools today who are mostly parroting out the guilt , shame , and blame game for our nation being so successful.


    Be Warned the Ishmaelites who would lie and deceive us about many many things.


    My non Ishmaelite .02,
    Watcherchris
     
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  29. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    in the old days, and I mean before computers and mobile phones became the norm, it was normal to have basic supplies in the house, a larder or pantry, the ones that didn't were the crazy ones as this was considered then to be common sense, now we are the crazy ones because we do.
     
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  30. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Lone Wolf,

    Yes, I am a product of those "old days".

    There were 2 components: home economics and the Civil Defense stuff that included the first aid kit and bandages.

    We're currently in an environment like Marlon Brando on the motorcycle. Motorcyclists represented "badness" until now when they are prominent organized helpers of society eg the veterans' programs.

    We're in the transition phase because of our adherence to the FEMA mottos like "Ready Nation" and their doctrine "Prepare for realistic, worst case scenarios".
     
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