Honor, Manners, Mouths, And Consequences

Honor, Manners, Mouths, and Consequences

One of the things that have been mostly cast aside as our culture has evolved to the modern version of being civil and civilized has been the old ways that we called manners and honor. The main on that they have been cast aside is that basically people are not very nice. In the past you didn’t act nice because you necessarily were nice, you did it because not acting nice had consequences.

Honor is just a code of actions that you DECIDE to subscribe to. In the past, you needed to do it because if you didn’t people would judge you and cast you out to some extent as being a lowlife that nobody would hire or do business with. You have to understand, in a world where you either work or starve this can be BAD.

In the event of any sort od total collapse where the rule of law ceases to carry much weight. All of that old silly stuff is going to suddenly have meaning again on so many levels. If you won’t work you will starve unless you can live off of the land. If you steal someone is going to kill you. Suddenly the reasons that someone might just up and kill you will grow at a shocking rate the farther from our modern “civilization” things get.

The word civilization is simple it means to make people act more CIVIL. When civilization crumbles and falls people are going to learn how to be civil again. People that think it is civil to cuss at me and call me names
MIGHT not like my response to that when there isn’t a cop around to protect your ill-mannered butt. My Grandfather gave a man 34 hours to gather his stuff and get out of town and would have killed him if he hadn’t done so. His crime, he said the F word in front of my Grandmother and a couple of other ladies. Do you know what would have happened if he had killed him? NOTHING! Back then that would have been justifiable homicide.

Not paying your bills is stealing. People with honor keep their word, they do this because by doing so other people that act in this fashion will treat them better. Pure and simple. If you act in a disreputable manner then you will be treated a little better than an animal. When people don’t have the time patience or interest in paying to put you up in a jail they find other ways to correct bad behavior like stealing. Horse whips or knotted wet rope were effective nonlethal ways to express displeasure. If they had to correct you more than once or twice the correction would probably be fatal.

People were polite in the old days. If you thought is was fun to be an ass and make people mad you would eventually make the wrong person mand and if he was an honorable man the two of you went at each other with a high probability that one of you wouldn’t survive. If the person that you made mad was less honorable or really tired of you then you just disappeared or were found dead someplace. Since you liked to piss people off there was not much interest in figuring out who finally did the deed.

Those people that like to stomp around looking like thugs and acting like they are dangerous will disappear like a drop of water on the top of a black car in August in Texas. Keeping your mouth shut can be a serious survival trait when you are dealing with armed people that are wound uptight. Calling someone an ugly name and threatening them could well be your last mistake. Just being an ass and making the wrong person made could be lethal. There are always hot-headed people that have no problem with killing someone that annoys them. In the old days these people were a problem but in nearly all cases like say Billy The Kid…He didn’t ever become a man named Bill. None the less the people that had crossed him were dead nonetheless. With no law, you treat every strange a little like a possible nut case and are nice but cautious.

There will be some serious advantages to having connections to the right people after things become less civilized. I want my family to survive not just me. That means that if something happened to me that they won’t just be all alone. People that make preparations for the event of their unforeseen passing had their kids survive while those that were not interested and made no preparation kids died. Over time the human species, despite its basic antisocial tendencies, became a social species.

In my life, there have been a lot of times that my various connections have been of great value to me. When I say connections understand this means friends. I went to Church and those people were part of my extended family. I joined a fraternal organization and these people became my friends. It is sort of funny. The people that I grew up with and thought were my friends were actually just buddies of convenience that we all make as children but the connections made among men as adults are different. When the oil industry collapsed in the 80s I knew people that lost EVERYTHING. I had no full-time job for over a year and HUNTED a job. My connections allowed me to work here and there and keep a roof over my family's had and food on the table. Thousands were not so lucky. Or was it luck? Prepare for the worst and that may mean more than just having a lot of things stored up.

Neighbors can become friends but they are a little like family they are not thereby choice it just happened. People don’t make what I think of as friends much anymore. They have “friends” on Facebook or whatever but don’t know their neighbor's last names. You don’t have neighborhoods anymore. You have subdivisions.

The skills of the past and rules of the past will return if the insanity we live in now collapses and it is going to be SHOCKING for a people raised thinking that reality is what they see on a box screen and friends are just names on a list on their phone twitter account.

Once things fall you need to think before you speak. You will need to avoid making people mad and if you spend much time fighting you are going to die. Without a hospital, doctors and modern medicines any wound or broken bone could kill you. Strangers need to be kept at a distance but friends are priceless. Treat everyone fairly but be ready to handle the people that are unable to act civilly. As Teddy Roosevelt said, “ Walk softly and carry a big stick.”

 

LOL, The fact is that the changes won't be as shocking in some places as others. We are not terribly civilized where I live. We already are carrying guns and some of us still teach our kids manners. We open doors for ladies or even gentleman and say please and thank you. We are still barbarians and like it that way.

 

Good morning TexDanm,

There were background reasons for manners.

The toast - before celebrating the drinking of a good beverage - evolved from the potential adversaries pouring a little of their liquid drink into the other's goblet - or whatever was name for holder of liquid -. This indicated that no poison was in the beverage.

The salute - from the lifting up of the face shield of the knight's helmet - indicating no in prep for lethal combat.

The bow and the curtsy - indicated the persons doing the maneuver were not a thread to the other.

The duel - now illegal in the US.

Some of the phased out manners are returning. Driving is going through a revision. Some countries prohibit horn use except for serious emergencies. Too loud of music in a vehicle at stop light. Can't discuss subject on web.

When the 1980 US oil collapse occurred, I got a position in Asia. An example of manners and rule of law: If walking on a public road and a coconut falls on the road, it is still someone's property. It cannot be picked up by someone as their newly-acquired property. This matter had a parallel somewhat recently in the US. In Staten Island or Brooklyn, New York City, someone was illegally selling "loosies" - individual cigarettes. The police stopped the sale and performed extra-judicial punishment. The punishment was severe.

The US socio-political complexion has changed. For 2 centuries, various different cultures were forced to tolerate others within a rudimentary framework. This has changed post Great Society days. It's camouflaged as "diversity" but it's really conformity to the social model developed in eastern Europe.

 

Here are some videos concerning bad manners in public:

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2020/0...ttacked-by-11-teens-in-lawless-chicago-884521

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...E252E704C50809EAF702E252E704C508&&FORM=VDRVRV


https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Chicago+subway+attacks+teenagers+problem&&view=detail&mid=8C1C19B1BF9350F80D698C1C19B1BF9350F80D69&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=/videos/search?q=Chicago+subway+attacks+teenagers+problem&FORM=HDRSC3

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/chicag...n-weekend-fueled-by-gang-disputes-police-say/

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=+subway+attack+teenagers&&view=detail&mid=C8AE3ED8411129BD96A3C8AE3ED8411129BD96A3&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=/videos/search?q=%20subway%20attack%20teenagers&qs=n&form=QBVR&sp=-1&pq=subway%20attack%20teenagers&sc=0-23&sk=&cvid=B3672FE10D2A4D9F91AC58F73C54E956

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=+subway+attack+teenagers&ru=/videos/search?q=%20subway%20attack%20teenagers&qs=n&form=QBVR&sp=-1&pq=subway%20attack%20teenagers&sc=0-23&sk=&cvid=B3672FE10D2A4D9F91AC58F73C54E956&view=detail&mid=F589AAD22117D252479CF589AAD22117D252479C&rvsmid=C8AE3ED8411129BD96A3C8AE3ED8411129BD96A3&FORM=VDRVRV

 

I once read, that only barbarians truly understand HONOR! Civilized humans lie, steal, cheat and kill to accomplish their goals, all while smiling to your face and saying that they are your friend. Know any of those?

A barbarian will kill you for love or fortune, but will tell you he is going to do so. He will steal from you, but never lie about what he took or why. He won't cheat you as his families honor would be impugned.

So, who is honorable? Civilized or Barbarian?

Dale

 

Only doable IF we communicate and interact to one another in person (eyes to eyes). Due to the advent of technology the nature of how we communicating and interacting has dramatically change from the past 20 years.

 

Very true. So many people become trolls online because they can get away with it without getting their butts STOMPED. I like to think that these people are the little mice in the real world that will not last long or will act in a more civil manner after the fall.

One of my favorite authors wrote a series about the establishment of a new nation after a collapse here in the US. In his New Nation, Lawyers were forbidden. All laws had to be checked by 5th graders and if they couldn't figure it out then it wasn't passed into law. Best of all habitual rudeness and bad manners were considered a capital offense! I could live with that!

 

Good morning Dale,

I've read that some of the pirate societies of sailing ship days, although not considered "civilized", would have a honor system as part of their actual market economics use in their ventures.

The pirate, Francis Drake, was knighted. Drake used a system of market economics with an honor code.

There are different types of codes of honor.

 

Each society in the past has its own definition of honor. Sadly to me, honor is now without any definition in the US. We elect people that obviously lack any honor. Politicians are now synonymous with liars. Several have turned the White House into little more than a bordello.

The honor of a Samurai was very different from what honor meant to a British Officer. Honor to a Christian is different from honor to a Hindu, Muslim or Buddhist. I have more than once had my nose rubbed in the fact that Honor and manners in Texas are very different from Honor in other places in the US.

When things get ugly you had better understand what is acceptble where you are and abide by it.

 

"Character is doing the right thing even when nobody is looking."

 

Good morning Justin,

A real good quote. Merci.

 

"Each new generation born is in effect an invasion of civilization by little barbarians, who must be civilized before it is too late." -- Thomas Sowell

"As I write, highly civilized human beings are flying overhead, trying to kill me."
-- George Orwell

Being highly intelligent in no way makes you civilized. -- Old Geezer

Though lengthy, I find the following quote by Anton Chekhov very to the point and written with a perceptive eye targeting the hideous pretenses of the marginally civilized.

Anton, another stage begs your words of wisdom:

“Civilized people must, I believe, satisfy the following criteria:

1) They respect human beings as individuals and are therefore always tolerant, gentle, courteous and amenable ... They do not create scenes over a hammer or a mislaid eraser; they do not make you feel they are conferring a great benefit on you when they live with you, and they don't make a scandal when they leave. (...)

2) They have compassion for other people besides beggars and cats. Their hearts suffer the pain of what is hidden to the naked eye. (...)

3) They respect other people's property, and therefore pay their debts.

4) They are not devious, and they fear lies as they fear fire. They don't tell lies even in the most trivial matters. To lie to someone is to insult them, and the liar is diminished in the eyes of the person he lies to. Civilized people don't put on airs; they behave in the street as they would at home, they don't show off to impress their juniors. (...)

5) They don't run themselves down in order to provoke the sympathy of others. They don't play on other people's heartstrings to be sighed over and cosseted ... that sort of thing is just cheap striving for effects, it's vulgar, old hat and false. (...)

6) They are not vain. They don't waste time with the fake jewellery of hobnobbing with celebrities, being permitted to shake the hand of a drunken [judicial orator], the exaggerated bonhomie of the first person they meet at the Salon, being the life and soul of the bar ... They regard phrases like 'I am a representative of the Press!!' -- the sort of thing one only hears from [very minor journalists] -- as absurd. If they have done a brass farthing's work they don't pass it off as if it were 100 rubles' by swanking about with their portfolios, and they don't boast of being able to gain admission to places other people aren't allowed in (...) True talent always sits in the shade, mingles with the crowd, avoids the limelight ... As Krylov said, the empty barrel makes more noise than the full one. (...)

7) If they do possess talent, they value it ... They take pride in it ... they know they have a responsibility to exert a civilizing influence on [others] rather than aimlessly hanging out with them. And they are fastidious in their habits. (...)

8) They work at developing their aesthetic sensibility ... Civilized people don't simply obey their baser instincts ... they require mens sana in corpore sano.

And so on. That's what civilized people are like ... Reading Pickwick and learning a speech from Faust by heart is not enough if your aim is to become a truly civilized person and not to sink below the level of your surroundings.

[From a letter to Nikolay Chekhov, March 1886]”
― Anton Chekhov, A Life in Letters

Allow an old geezer to quote Faust, perchance Dickens:

“Who are you then?"
"I am part of that power which eternally wills evil and eternally works good.”
― Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, Faust, First Part

"I see my discourse leaves you cold;
Dear kids, I do not take offense;
Recall: the Devil, he is old,
Grow old yourselves, and he'll make sense!”
― Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, Faust, First Part

These sequestered nooks are the public offices of the legal profession, where writs are issued, judgments signed, declarations filed, and numerous other ingenious machines put in motion for the torture and torment of His Majesty's liege subjects, and the comfort and emolument of the practitioners of the law. ~ The Pickwick Papers by Charles Dickens

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