How Long Will It Take You To Die Wtshtf?

Discussion in 'The Apocalypse' started by lonewolf, Dec 19, 2020.

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  1. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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  2. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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    I would say the post is spot on . My suspicion is most people even the ones that prep to survive a few weeks without the power grid would soon lose their water source without an adequate water back up plan . There would be great gatherings of unprepared , panicked , desperate , starving people at water sources such as rivers , creeks and lakes . A bedlam of murder , prostitution , and thievery at such water sources would be my expectation . Those drinking water from public water sources should expect rotting human corpses to be in their water supply . Survival expectations not good .
     
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  3. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    I dont know about the US but in the UK the general population/the masses if you like are said to be 4 generations removed from the land, a generation is usually assumed to be 30 years.
    whilst bottled water is a trendy thing to be seen with most people have no clue as to where water can be found once the mains shut down, whilst it is true some will head for the nearest reservoir these places are best avoided for the reasons in the previous post.
     
  4. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Most of the people in the US won't last more than a month or two at the most. They don't have a clear understanding of the issues they will have to deal with. You will need to be prepared to feed yourself and your people for at least 6 months at which point your first garden will start feeding you. That means that you have to have food stores and know exactly what is eatable where you live and how to harvest it and prepare it. I warn you now that if you plan to go into the woods and "live off the land" you will be in trouble because you will be surrounded by hundreds or thousands of idiots that will be trying to do the same thing.

    In the past, I was well and truly prepared to survive indefinitely. Now all of that is irrelevant and my life expectancy when things crash will be a matter of at most a few months. My kidneys have gone toes up and without dialysis I will slowly die. what time I will have will be spent teaching my family as much as I can about what they will have and how to best use it. We have the water situation handles. We have a 1600 gallon cistern that is kept full from rain runoff of the roof. We have enough rain here that it will never go dry. we have food and several good wood-fired stoves. All they will have to do is survive until the garden is producing. Guns and ammo is no problem.

    With just a little luck they will survive. We live in the country outside of a tiny town and are surrounded by farm people and ranchers. EVERYONE here is armed.
     
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  5. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    I saw a survey once, along the lines of "how long will you survive" in a post event situation and over 75% of people said they would be dead within 2 months.
    sorry to hear about your health problems Tex, personally I think I am healthier and better to survive an event than most people my age and even people 20 or 25 years younger, going by what I have seen when out in public.
    we live on the edge of a small rural town several hundreds of miles from any major city surrounded by miles of fields and woodland.
     
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  6. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Lonewolf,

    Just read the UK Prepper's Guide material.

    In reply; if here at my shack in the woods, there would be no difference whether a SHTF event or just living in Virginia.

    If away from shack, eg at grocery store, post office, same analogy applies.
     
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  7. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    The article in question is principally aimed at people who do not prepare, most preppers know all this stuff already.
    why any non prepper would be reading a prepper article is more to the question.
     
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    1. Old Geezer
      Y'know, there are people who are beginning to get concerned, who are "on the fence" as it were. Yes, they've waited too long; however, there are some among them who may just get their sh## together and do some things that might put them in better stead. I worry about perfectly decent kids whose parents have their head stuck up their @$$. Sometimes kids can push their parents. As a kid I rode my bike to BAD accident scenes, saw all the splatter gore. After that, I bitched at my parents to wear their seat belts (there were no shoulder harnesses/straps back then, just the lap belts). When I was age 5, I told my mom that smoking didn't look good on her, so she quit. People visit this site who are not out'n'out preppers.
       
      Old Geezer, Dec 21, 2020
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  8. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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    Would you care to elaborate a little further . I didn't know you had a shack in the woods . If for security reasons you prefer not , that would be understandable .
     
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  9. wally

    wally Master Survivalist
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    being tied to an elderly mother we might last 1-2 years before something gets us...i will go down swinging though...
     
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  10. Mekada

    Mekada Master Survivalist
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  11. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    just me and the wife here.
     
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  12. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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    I am tied to a 14 year old grandson that can not walk . Thus being tied down gives me some time to be on this forum . However I do not let that hinder me from prepping . My prepping is focused on lasting into infinity , well past my lifetime . I can say I have the genes to live a very long time , even a doctor that didn't know a thing about my inherited genes told me I would likely live to be very old . At 71 I am probably on par with the average 50 year old , still climbing up into trees to ambush a deer and can walk many 40 year old's into the ground . Actually have for sheer orneriest purposely walked a young buck down once that called himself a athlete .My survival clan knows how much I enjoy putting my 100 lb. bloodhound on a leash and climb through our mountainous terrain trailing critters or people . When trailing that bloodhound is pulling very hard and will pull even a young athletic person off their feet .
     
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  13. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good afternoon Poltiregist,

    Before retiring, I built a wooden house on a hill in a forest on some acreage here in Tidewater, Virginia. I'm 1 km from nearest state road. The place is outfitted for Dominion electricity, my LPG gas tank and a wood stove outside.

    Had mentioned my shack here at Forum before.

    Other aspects not appropriate for web.
     
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  14. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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    It appears I somehow missed your previous post about the shack . That puts your status in another realm than I had previously thought . I wish all our members took prepping serious enough to have a shack they could retreat to .
     
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  15. arctic bill

    arctic bill Master Survivalist
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    I have some issues with the articular.
    1) it says most people would die of starvation in 21 days , this is bs people that have gone on hunger strike last about 60 days with no food just water depending on their levels of fat.
    2) most of us have a first aid kit and some training so the thing about gangrene is bs.
    3) giving up, this is the real problem that will affect most people.
     
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  16. Dalewick

    Dalewick Legendary Survivalist
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    As far as I can tell, in the USA, the SHTF has begun. Just waiting to see how deep it gets and how hard the fan blows it around.

    At Worst, Biden is a lame duck and nothing gets done. At Best, the current civil war goes hot, all the politicians get hung, the population is reduced greatly and the current economy is replaced after the collapse by a better system back on silver and gold. Or at least on something that's not air.

    Dale
     
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  17. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    hunger strikes are generally under medical supervision, the average person with no food will not survive for more than a month.
    water is a more immediate problem.
     
  18. Brownbear

    Brownbear Master Survivalist
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    Absolutely Lonewolf - survival experts suggest around three weeks maximum without food, depending upon fitness, activity during that period, muscle mass etc. Absence of water varies, that can be as short as 24 to 48 hours but, agin, given environment/clothing etc can be longer.

    There have been notable exceptions - for example the two sisters who survived sub zero temperatures without food and only eating ice for water for much longer.

    Famously a US airman survived weeks in the Sahara during WW2 after bailing out because he found a piece of corrugated iron, which he used as shelter and a solar still.
     
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  19. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    yes, the usual quoted is 21 days without food, some may last a bit longer but not a lot.
    Water is the real killer though, about 3 days is again the quoted figure, maybe more if not exerting oneself, not doing anything strenuous i.e. not losing water by sweating etc but its not long, and drinking contaminated will probably finish them off sooner.
     
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  20. Brownbear

    Brownbear Master Survivalist
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    This is the survival conundrum, you use water and food reserves in order to seek food and water. The much vaunted advice to stay where you are only works on the assumption people will be looking for you in that area.
     
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  21. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    the survival advice to stay put only works in a world where things are normal, where emergency services and rescue groups still work, it dosent work in a post SHTF, in that case your on your own.
     
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  22. Max rigger

    Max rigger Master Survivalist
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    Bad news about the kidney failure Dan, we lost a much loved family member to renal failure a few years ago. He dialised three days a week and it kept him alive for about six years before he went into multi-organ failure/sepsis and passed away.

    Have you thought about home dialysis? Buying your own machine?
     
  23. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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  24. Max rigger

    Max rigger Master Survivalist
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    WOW thats real breaking news there old geezer LOL. Diabetes/heart issues finished off my family member, he did well on dialysis and the restrictions it puts on you. Happy xmas.
     
  25. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Your "kind response" to Tex Dan included too much information about your relative's suffering, WAY too much information. My prayers are that Tex will survive a whole lot longer than six years. If Texas can break away from Amerika and create an intelligent country/region of its own, there is hope. A British nurse once told my wife (who was recovering from breast cancer), "We in Britain are more accepting of death." In socialist medical systems there are waiting lists for needed procedures. If you are elderly with co-existing medical conditions, your name may or may not even go on a list -- you can be written-off. If you are part of the elite, you can personally pay for your medical care. The latter is what happens in many European countries. If you are not wealthy and are no longer of benefit to the collective, then farewell.

    A Ukrainian physician with whom I once worked said that if socialized medicine came to the USA, she would quit the practice of medicine and return to world of music in which she was raised. Her opinion is very common among U.S. medical practitioners, I work with these people. University-linked physicians can lean liberal -- this because their professorship brings with it tenured employment at high salary rates, thus the ivory-tower syndrome.

    Maxine, others on this site may chalk-up your insensitivity to your lack of maturity. In today's world wherein mental discipline is totally lacking, "adults" are allowed to spew adolescent ideas and beliefs. Sheeple such as yourself become accustomed to not being beaten to the ground for being arrogant in public.

    Me, I believe that you were intentionally being cruel to TexasDan.

    The thing is that Texas Dan is an actual man. It is troubling when hearing a pretend-man like yourself engage in such verbal aggressions against his betters.

    Knowing what is headed for England allows me to know what is going to happen to you and that son of yours for whom you do not possess the means by which to protect. Grim. But I can't feel sorry for you or yours. You made your bed, now lie in it.
    .
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2020
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  26. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    Dont write off Britain just yet Old Geezer, we have just removed ourselves from the European/German jackboot (for the third time) and will over the next few years improve our standing in the world which has suffered over the last 45 years of being in a fascist anti competitive collective.
    we have the 5th largest economy in the world, recently pushing France into 7th place behind India at number 6.
     
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  27. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I'm not sure that even the 21 days might not be optimistic. Hunger strikes are usually done in prisons or other places where inactivity plays a major part in how long they can go. I don't think that you can go for three weeks while also doing all sorts of very physical things trying to survive.

    I have actually fasted for 14 days twice with no problems at all but in both cases, I was not being very active. It is sort of like how many miles you can go on a tank of gasoline in your car. Your mileage is massively affected by your driving habits and conditions. How long you can go without food is directly related to how much you are doing and how many calories you are burning up each day.

    Under a high-stress condition with lots of physical activity how long you will last will depend on your physical condition and how much body fat you have. Being in shape means that your body is going to be efficient. Being either too lean or too fat is a killer. I had a friend that was 6,2" and weighed about 130 pounds. If he missed lunch he would get so weak that he could barely go. His blood sugar would bottom out and if he didn't eat he would pass out. I was 6, 2" and weighed 250 and did a lot of hard physical work and I only eat one meal a day and if I miss it, it is no big deal.

    It isn't always something that you can do anything about. My friend ate more than I did by a HUGE factor. His body just would not store fat. I can't lose weight on a 1500 calorie a day diet. I only lose 2 pounds a month on a 1000 calorie diet. We just had totally different metabolisms.

    Unless you live in a desolate desert there is no reason for you to starve to death in the short term in the US. If you do it is because of ignorance rather than lack of opportunity that killed you. Most trees have some parts of them that offer some level of nourishment. There are bugs almost everywhere. If there are hogs in your area then there are a lot of opportunities to feed. You just have to KNOW what is available where YOU live and be willing to eat it.
     
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  28. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Add on to the above.

    Do NOT wait until your preferred foods are used up to start trying to eat what is available. If you do your body is not going to do well and you are going to get sick. Diarrhea is DEADLY in a survival situation. As soon as you realize that the problem is not going to be resolved in the short term you need to start adding these things to your diet. This will stretch your food supplies while at the same time letting your body adjust to the new foods.
     
  29. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    someones stockpile of food post SHTF is not to REPLACE fresh food, all canned food is processed to a greater or lesser degree and a diet made up of purely processed food is not good for anyone, your stockpile of food should be used to SUPPLEMENT when fresh food is low or non available, do not wait like Tex says for your store of food to run out before you look for alternatives, that is far too late.
     
  30. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    I've not written off England in toto. I HAVE written-off the major cities of England -- of the world, for that matter. It is a good thing that you, LoneWolf, are thoroughly ensconced in a rural region. The vast majority of the people of England are not in a position of being able to grow their own food / kill their own meat. You no doubt have a generator, but may not even need a generator. You can live without electricity.

    The VAST majority of people living in England are totally dependent. They are dependent on electricity. They are dependent on some person wearing a uniform to protect them from packs of looters / career felons / home-invaders / terrorists on the streets. They are dependent on food distribution networks; in "modern" society, people do NOT put back food in the form of long-term storage. Rural people in England can get by without such massive infrastructure. The urban/suburban people of England cannot.

    When things go sideways in the countries of the West, vast numbers of dependent people will perish due to famine and disease. Because of this, the better part of England will be lost.

    This reality is a given to all true preppers. On this site, we preppers discuss how we are going to get through famine, loss of water supplies, loss of electrical feed, defend ourselves from aggressive panic-stricken people, survive political violence and civil war. We do have one overt troll / poser on this site, but other than that, we are all pretty much on the same page. No two people are in total agreement in their perceptions of about how it all is going to go during the coming hard times, so we throw-out / toss back-and-forth ideas on this site.

    People who imagine that this world's current house of cards will somehow keep on keeping on are not of our lot. They are outsiders and lost. Many living in the communities wherein we live are lost. We cannot help them. It is too late for them.

    I wish God's speed to the rural people of England. I hope their vicissitudes during the coming catastrophes will be mightily diminished by their historically-proven character and self-sufficiency. My father who was temporarily stationed in rural, very rural, England had only the best to say about the locals who were so kind and giving during WWII. Whereas the urban folk of England in this age appear to have capitulated to the arrogant lords of collectivism, it is my belief that the rural progeny of the noble rural folk -- who were so kind to my dad and his mates -- are today every bit as noble. If I may quote Bill Faulkner, I believe that these people will not merely endure, but will prevail. They posses souls and are therefore not lost.
    .
     
  31. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    I thank you for your kind words Old Geezer, what you say about urban areas of England certainly applies to any city anywhere in the world, city people are for the majority reliant on the modern resources of the 21st Century, welded to the internet, Facebook, Twitter and the like, Smartphones which they cant put down for a moment, supermarket and just in time delivery systems, and above all else..Electricity! everything is either directly linked to the mains or needs it for recharging, lose electricity even for a moment and the whole of society grind to a halt. lose it for good and society will die.
    I lived for many years, well over a decade, without electricity and without mains services, but not many can do the same, certainly not in the cities.
    I do not have a generator, I do not need a generator and anyway its only good for as long as any fuel lasts then it will be no more than a garden decoration, I have other ways to light and heat my home and cook my food which are more permanent.
     
  32. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Months back? Two years back? Anyway, a time ago, I watched a documentary on how complex a system it took to feed one of the major cities in India. I remember discovering how many dependencies there were. I mean gosh, anyone can imagine that the process is complex, duh! However, when one gets down into the nitty-gritty, it is mind boggling that the system holds together as good as it does ... and at all. ... even in the best of times.

    Today, my readings have been all over the place; work, private, this prepper stuff, amusing things, serious things, ... . Well I ran across the following. It has to do with the logistics of food shipments in the United States. These folk even created a map showing the tangled web we've weaved. I find the info both amusing and serious. This reading will make you glad you are a prepper! If one is at the mercy of the food delivery behemoth here in The States, then may God have mercy upon you when it hits the fan.

    https://www.fastcompany.com/90422553/the-first-map-of-americas-food-supply-chain-is-mind-boggling

    https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ab29ae


    [​IMG]
     
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  33. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I do it at home, 4 days a week I do hemo-dialysis and before that I did home peritoneal dialysis. As long as I do my treatments I feel great and as near as I can tell from my studies my life expectancy is about as good as it ever was. The males in my family are not very long lived. None see 80 and most don’t make 70. I am near 70 so it is all good. I feel good and am strong. I don’t look my age nor act it.

    Before I got older and developed health issues that just go with age in my family, I would have said that my life expectancy would have been little affected by a total collapse. I was seriously involved in self-sufficiency long before prepping was even a thing.

    40 years go I was armed to the teeth, had food and water set aside for months at least until my by then MUCH enlarged garden would come in. I have treated it as a hobby and so learned how to do all sorts of things the old ways. I learned all about how to feed my family, farming, hunting, fishing, keeping and butchering meat animals, canning, mear drying and curing. I have done all of these to make sure that I understood and had it down.

    Wanted to have marketable skills that did not depend on power so am a pretty good carpenter, metal worker, mechanic, leather work, gunsmith, you name it and I probably got interested in it at some point and have books that I learned it from still in my massive library.

    I have two shops filled with machinery BUT I also have the old hand tools to do the same things by hand if there is no power. I am a machinist, mechanic, carpenter, gunsmith, plumber etc..; I worked for years as a part of a company that did all sorts of maintenance and construction and though each of us had our specialty, we all worked together on the big jobs and learned a lot about each other’s trades.

    For years I was a shipyard machinist but whenever things got slow I would do something different until things picked up. I enjoyed that. We stayed out of debt and put back money when things were busy so never suffered when a layoff came. I liked doing something different and learning a new trick and used these layoffs as training sessions. Years latter when the economy really did tank I was well prepared to do whatever was available and eventually just started my own repair business.
     
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  34. Max rigger

    Max rigger Master Survivalist
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    Is dyalisis covered by medicare or do you pay? We're so lucky to have the NHS, uncle got picked up and taken for treatment then bought home and it cost him nothing, I dread to think what it would cost private.
     
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  35. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Medicare or hospitals eat the costs of treating the poor in the USA.

    One of my sons was basically killed in a car accident and brought back from the dead. He had no insurance. His bill was over a half million dollars. The hospital ate the better part of it. He still gets treatments.

    No socialist medical system would have attempted to save my son ... even if they had the ability to do so.

    On a business trip to Canada, some folk I spoke to were amazed that almost all US hospitals of any size have CAT scan and PET scan machines. Up in Ontario, three hospitals had to have a telethon to buy one CAT scan machine that they would share. The Canadian system payed part, yet still, they had to conduct that telethon to raise the rest of the money.

    After one of my wife's surgeries, a British nurse told my wife, "In England, we are more accepting of death."

    A dentist friend of mine has a patient who visits the States once a year to see her family AND while here gets her dental work done. She assiduously avoids getting her dental care done in her home country of England.

    https://newspunch.com/socialist-medicine-british-court-child/

    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2021
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  36. Max rigger

    Max rigger Master Survivalist
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    https://newspunch.com/socialist-medicine-british-court-child/

    Is that the best you can do old geezer, not a yardstick of the care available in the UK by any means.

    Lets look at the case you cherry picked.

    The child, Alfie Evans, arrived at the hospital in a degenerative neurological condition. His body was kept breathing. The Italian hospital in question has close links to the Catholic Church/Vatican and all they could have done was kept the body alive. The doctors felt it was not in the child's best interest and the High Court ruled in favour of the child having treatment withdrawn. You would have know this if you'd bothered to look first before posting and making a fool of yourself.

    I have absolutely no doubt your son would have received treatment that is amongst the best in world, thats what the NHS does, its provides treatment free at point of use everyday to thousands of people.

    I'll leave you to go find more NHS horror stories but remember, I can do the same with the American system so a pointless exercise.

    Universal health care is a human right in the moden world and anyone who allows their right wing agenda to disagree is in my humble opinion a bigoted idiot...not offence meant.

    Side note, my home made chilli chutney has turned out nice :)
     
  37. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Whoever protects you, owns you.
     
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  38. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    treatment in the UK NHS is "free at the point of need" no one has to pay anything towards it, there are some private health schemes BUPA for instance if you want more than the normal treatment but the NHS is for everyone irrespective of income or class.
    it is true that hospitals and especially emergency departments have been overwhelmed by the pandemic but that is the exception not the norm, usual waiting times in "accident and emergency" are caused by people not using the system properly and going there every time "little Johnny" has a sniffle instead of going to see their G.P. or the Pharmacist.
     
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  39. arctic bill

    arctic bill Master Survivalist
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    Old geezer, yes this is true about hospitals in Canada,
    and the big reason is that most hospitals are non profit .
    They are supported by their communities. The vast majority of hospitals in Canada operate as private, non-profit entities. They are run by community boards or voluntary organizations which make decisions regarding the day-to-day allocation of financial and human resources.
    That is how we keep the cost of Medicare at a reasonable cost.
     
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  40. Max rigger

    Max rigger Master Survivalist
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    So your guns and knives own you then old geezer LOL You didn't your reply through before hitting enter did you :rolleyes:

    I won't bother providing links but if you can be bothered to search on youtube for Americans living in the UK there are a number of videos and pretty much all of them mention the NHS and how good it is.

    I'll leave you to it, I'm putting up a new antenna in the garden today and I'm sure your guns/owners have things for you to do.
     
  41. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    My knives don't own me. However, my wife and others would say that my firearms may just own me.

    But I did say "whoever" instead of "whatever".

    "You didn't [sic] your reply through before hitting enter did you [sic]"
    You didn't read your reply before hitting enter, did you?

    Ask an ardent women's liberation female about having a husband protect her. She will get beyond angry at you, "I don't need any man to protect me! If he 'protects' me, then he'll want something in return and I'm NOT about THAT!"

    However, the self-same woman could be a liberal and think that Big Brother will protect her without "stipulations". Illogical. Mind-numbingly illogical.

    On this planet and among the human species, if you are not as independent as is humanly possible, other humans WILL attempt to take advantage of you. We humans are NOT so far removed from wolves. A Russian career felon told one of my sons, "In Russia there are two kinds of people, wolves and sheep."
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  42. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    OK Hirum be nice. I love my guns and shooting is my second favorite outdoor sport. I long ago gave up killing mammals and now only cans and paper targets need to fear me. I true love though is edged weapons and honestly, I wouldn't know to the nearest hundred how many I have in my collection. The pointed and sharpened tool is what separated man from the animals.

    Without them we were just easy prey for the predators of any reasonable size. We are slow on the run, weaker than any animal of comparable size, our finger and toenails are jokes as are our teeth. When the first soon to be human picked up a pointy stick and a rock to throw we were suddenly a dangerous animal and since then we have just perfected that pointy thing and rock.

    I have never been all that certain that our society was going to last as long as the past empires. At a little over 3 centuries, we are and have been for a long-time showing cracks in our ability to maintain and continue. Part of the problem is a genetic heritage thing.

    In the past there were a lot of serious advantages to being intelligent and physically strong. That is no longer true in a survival sense. I know people that are dumb as a post and only manage to eat because others support them. The sad thing is that these people, while unable to support themselves, were more than able to have a half dozen kids for others to support, none of which will ever be much more than their parents are.

    Each generation in the western world is a little stupider IQ wise than the preceding and eventually that WILL bite us in the butt as other nations with much less tolerance for over breeding by useless people will just easily slide us aside. Most people in the western world just don’t understand that others don’t see the world the way we do and they only allow us our place and possessions as long as we are capable of defending them.

    The US has reached the point where it is not only incapable of protecting its borders, people that don’t live in border states have the power in Washington to forbid us from doing it for ourselves. Understand wh na foreinger come here and takes a job he is a contributor BUT illegal aliens can’t do that past the most menial jobs. How does an employer explain the lack of paying social security or the taking out of taxes when the worker is an ILLEGAL alien?

    I know and consider friends a lot of Hispanic people. They came in legally, went to work and most are now citizens. Texas is FULL of Hispanic natives. My problem is with illegal uneducated aliens that most often can’t even speak our language. Most of the time if they are caught in a criminal act where nobody was killed they are just deported. Hell they are back before the people that hauled them down to the border get home.

    If you want to come here and work I’m all for it but this doesn’t make you a citizen nor will your kids be allowed to be citizens without making an effort. You are NOT eligible for welfare or assistance PERIOD. If you lose your job either get another on or (go home). LEAVE this country because you are not a citizen.

    Imagine if the government passed a law making it illegal to lock your house and required you to allow in any bum that wanted to move in with you and demand that you must feed and support them!!! THAT is exactly what our government is doing to us. How did our “government” become more the government FOR the aliens than for the people that are citizens??? It is scarry that our civilization is more about making life easy for the stupid and lazy than for people stupid enough to work hard and support not just themselves but all of the thieves that the government wants to import.
     
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  43. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    What with Biden opening our borders, we're getting a flood of undocumented whoevers. Add to that, our military is flying illegals to almost all states -- this without any testing for communicable diseases.

    The Channel crossings in the UK is rising at precipitous rates also.

    https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/ne...-illegal-channel-crossing-from-safe-countries

    upload_2021-8-3_23-37-7.png

    "Three times as many immigrants have been reported entering the UK illegally by crossing the English Channel in small boats so far this year when compared with the same period last year(9,460 versus 3,525 – up until 26 July). A population the size of a town – 20,307 people – has now come here via this route in the past three-and-a-half years.

    "Monday 19 July 2021 saw the highest daily number of reported arrivals ever (430), more than the next highest daily total of 416 on 2 September 2020. July 2021 is also the worst month ever recorded for crossings – with 3,510 people having breached our borders before our very eyes.

    "There have been no removals of illegals to the safe European countries they traveled through since the start of the year. Overall asylum-related removals plummeted by 92%, from 18,000 in 2005 to 1,500 last year (see our report)."

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    Several European countries are pushing back against the EU because they cannot tolerate the ever-increasing crime rates nor afford the costs to their social welfare systems.

    https://www.theorganicprepper.com/european-countries-migrants/

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  44. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Legendary Survivalist
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    IMHO the article in the original post is pretty accurate. I feel pretty confident about four of the five scenarios listed as the most likely to occur. Maintenance medication is a huge concern for me. Two family members rely on maintenance medication, and one would not last more than six months without it.

    Again, JMHO, but the two weakest links for any prepper are fire, and professional medical help. I am prepared to defend my home, but could never survive being burned out. If looters set fire to the house we would be in a world of hurt. Nobody is immune from every medical eventuality. Serious medical events such as a heart attack or stroke require professional medical attention. More lingering medical conditions such as diabetes or arthritis can be just as life threatening. How many lives have been lost to pneumonia or dysentery or a myriad of other conditions all or which could be brought on by poor hygiene and lack of professional medical help.

    We do our best, but these things very much concern me.
     
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  45. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    as far as I can see in a post SHTF world there will be NO professional medical help available, most doctors and nurses work in the big hospitals in the big cities and they will be gone in the first wave of looting and arson that occurs.
    self reliance and self sufficiency will be the name of the game and anyone with a serious life threatening medical condition is not likely to survive for long. many members of this forum have said as much.
    harsh but true. nobody said the collapse was going to be pretty.
    anyone who thinks it will be a cake walk is deluding themselves.
     
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  46. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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    Post S.H.T.F. surviving - my little band have been seriously preparing to live way beyond any stored items and into infinity . We don't just talk about what we would do , we have already installed our never ending food supply program and our year around spring has us a permanent clean water supply . Periodic practice in all areas of food procurement and preservation is done . -- As for as medical issues , we have our own medical professional on site . With medicines potentially not being available I could see that being a problem that could indeed cause some in our group to perish . We accept dying as being a part of living , so accept the inevitable . However our descendants could survive indefinitely as we are a reproducing clan . We had a new member , a baby boy born into our group about 2 weeks ago . Before the child even exited the womb , I had bought it a liquid fueled cigarette lighter on which I plan to engrave his name so that he will have it as an adult to start fires in the post S.H.T.F. world .
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2021
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  47. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Where I live Lonewolf most Doctors have private offices and only a few young new docs and a few older, basically supervisory doctors, working strictly in a hospital. Even the surgeons have private offices that you go to to consult with them and then only go to the hospital for the surgery. Most of the Doctors in the hospitals that work there full time are interns just out of school and a few older Docs that run things more as business supervisors than doctors. Those are mostly employed in the emergency room.
     
  48. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    In a less-than-Mad-Max shtf situation, veterinarian supplies will be diverted to human use. Forget FDA picky-picky rules. Unfortunately, the USA agricultural use of antibiotics runs into the thousands of tons. We shouldn't be pouring antibiotics into cattle, but we do.

    Me, I've put back suturing supplies, 4" x 4" sterile cotton, antibiotic cream, ... other wound care products. I don't know if the general public can by suturing supplies. Never looked that up.
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  49. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    They sell suture supplies on Amazon.
     
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  50. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    most doctors over here seem to want to work in the big hospitals, the family doctor is usually a lot older and closer to retirement and once they retire the practice has trouble filling the vacancy, the family doctor mostly dosent live on the premises but lives many miles away, WTSHTF they probably wont be able to get to their rural practices, same with dentists, same with vets. thats why I say medical help wont be available post collapse.
     
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    1. Old Geezer
      This has been a problem here in the States. I worked with one univ. med school whose core purpose was to keep their graduates in-state. They recruited local honor students in hopes that they would remain in the state and in the rural areas from whence they came. It was a really difficult endeavor. Many new physicians have huge student loan bills to pay -- med school isn't cheap -- therefore they take the high-paying positions to pay off loans and to buy into LLC medical groups. People imagine physicians to be rich. The young ones are DEEP in debt and the ones who finally see some clear sky are almost all over age 40.
       
      Last edited: Aug 15, 2021
      Old Geezer, Aug 15, 2021
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    2. Old Geezer
      In the last 20 years, things have greatly improved here in providing physicians and regional hospitals to rural areas.
       
      Old Geezer, Aug 15, 2021
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