If Russia Captured The Entire Middle East.........then What.

Discussion in 'What do you believe? Predictions?' started by Sourdough, Oct 13, 2019.

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  1. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    If Russia captured the entire Middle East.........then what.

    So NATO is currently in disarray. America is largely unreliable to any Middle Eastern country. The little countries there are delivering some serious "Woop'ass" on the big countries.

    America and neutered NATO are staging of war with Russia all along the Russia and Eastern Europe border. Meanwhile Russia is becoming the Respected and Trusted power broker in the Middle East block.

    Russia has a near total control of natural gas and all other fuels available to pretty much all of Europe. OPEC is dysfunctional. Europe is a wee bit into their developing catastrophic depression, and undeniable civil war with the new refuges.

    If Russia or Russia and China made a swift move on the Middle East, either violently or sweet negotiations-threats. They would control the vast fuel reserves of most of the planet. They could easily bring Europe to its knees over fuel needed for industry. They are already pissed at Europe for the stupid sanctions fabricated by America on Russia, and very-very reluctantly embraced by Europe.

    America could end up allied with no country.

    If Russia captured the entire Middle East.........then what........??????
    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...sieged-kobani-manbij-within-48-hours-us-exits
     
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  2. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    I think I need more cache sites.
     
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  3. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
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    IF
     
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  4. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    This part of the forum is for "PREDICTIONS". or IF
     
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  5. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    We most all prep for "IF".
     
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  6. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    "If Russia captured the entire Middle East.........then what."

    The Russians would have a mountain of hellish situations on their hands. They would have to go with nuclear weapons and quickly so. Israel would launch nukes from land and sea. Pakistan would launch their nuclear weapons. In past years, Russia couldn't hold Afghanistan. Russia's soldiers are totally unreliable.

    The USA could make friends with Central and South American nations by turning all of their major cities into bowls of glass. We could wipe-out 2/3 rds of all the populations south of the Rio tomorrow afternoon. "Wanna be friends? Wanna give us better deals on your crappy crude oil?" I think their answer would be, "Yes!".

    When it really hits the fan, our military is prepared to do mayhem -- with or without the permission of any political party. The liberal generals are NOT in charge of the combat regiments. The Air Force higher command answers to the aircraft manufacturing companies more so than the U.S. Government. The higher up officers who destroy cities and wipe-out entire peoples are NOT sitting behind desks at the Pentagon.
     
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  7. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    If Russia tried to control the middle east they would go broke and spend the rest of their lives fighting the Muslims. China is going to discover the same thing in Africa. We do not NEED anything from another country. Yes we can trade with them but we no longer NEED their oil, minerals or other natural resources. We are finally energy independent.
     
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  8. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Oh by the by, Turkey has invaded Syria.

    https://www.foxnews.com/world/turkey-airstrikes-syria-journalist-civilians-targeted

    https://www.algemeiner.com/2019/10/...-turkish-invasion-of-kurdish-region-of-syria/

    If Turkish military actions shut-off oil supplies to Israel, know that Israel will not just sit on its hands. This Turkish incursion into the Kurdish region of Syria could lead to all-out war in the Middle East.

    https://alethonews.com/2019/10/11/i...turkish-military-operation-against-the-kurds/
    "On an economic level, 75 per cent of Israel’s oil imports come from Iraqi Kurdistan, as well as significant economic cooperation, through the acquisition of a lot of investments by Israeli companies in Kurdistan, especially in the field of energy, construction, communications and security consulting."
    --------------------------------------

    https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/...hands-after-erdogan-compares-israel-to-nazis/
     
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  9. Rebecca

    Rebecca Expert Member
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    If the Russians actually managed such a feat, keeping hold of the Middle East and putting pressure on Europe would keep them very busy, for a very long time. It's not exactly a peaceful area as it is, and China may not appreciate a power play of such magnitude. China and Russia together, maybe, but how long until they turn on each other? Neither has a history of sharing power.

    America as a continent could be sulf sufficient without the Middle East and Europe. Would things get difficult, definitely. Would we survive, also definitely. Probably by applying the pressure to cooperate mentioned by Old Geezer to Central and South America
     
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  10. CountryGuy

    CountryGuy Expert Member
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    OK, since this is all speculation, Russia is in better terms with much of that part of the world already. If they took it over, likely after the lessons they learned in Afghanistan (which the US was to arrogant and stupid to learn from) they'd bypass much of the shit hole areas up, leaving the areas of camel dung huts, goat farmers and mountains alone. Instead they wouldn't "control" it, they'd let it devolve back into the cesspole warlord zones it's known for the last 2-3000 years and so long as said warlords played nice with Russia they'd leave them alone. If they didn't, with Russia being Russia, I'm sure they'd stoop to what they did in the past and they'd just gas a village or 10 to get the point across. If it was ISIS or some other Muslim problem, again chem warfare and annihilation would be acceptable to knock out areas and not expend Russian blood. Instead they'd smartly focus on the oil fields of Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia etc... along with the business centers like Dubai. OPEC would be done since for the most part it is a huge pain point for them keeping down world crude prices. Russia, like Venezuela, Brazil and many other areas of the world need oil prices to be high to cover their production costs. When it costs you 2 or 3 times more to produce than a barrel of crude is worth, that's a pain point. No money, not weapons.

    We don't need middle east crude in this country, we produce enough to cover our consumption and in pretty short turn we could start converting more things to use the massive natural gas reserves while increasing the flow from the north shore. If we were smart but cautious, we'd back and support the "rebels" in Venezuela to help overthrow the Socialists. But when it comes to the US track record of picking and backing a horse, the US is horrible - Qaddafi, Noriega, and Hussein spring to mind as examples - and we also forget to get and keep our noses out of it afterwards. If we could get oil companies and businesses back down there to modernize the oil fields and production hubs along with restarting drilling, while securing that Venezuela agree to use greenbacks as reserve currency for their oil along with them cutting all ties to OPEC; we could have cheap oil. We could help turn Venezuela back around and into a massively productive nation though it would be up to them to pull their society back from the crime riddled, socialist hell hole it's become over the last 20 years.

    Honestly getting out of the Middle East could be a great thing. If we were smart we'd focus on supporting the only 2 alli countries we really have in that region, Israel and Jordon along with the Kurds who we have yet again screwed over, pulling out of Syria and letting them to the Turk hords to slaughter them. Now there is a segment of people, the Kurds, that have every right to hate America and how we've done them over the last 30 years.

    Now Europe, well them and their EU would likely have to become a satellite state of Russia or sell their proverbial kidney to pay for gas and oil. Though if the UK and a few other nations around the North Sea would see the light of day and start drilling, a lot, the North Sea could turn back into a money machine by selling oil and gas to the EU at dang near whatever cost they like. EU already has a lot of nuke plants, maybe they need to focus on increasing that output along with their distribution grid to switch more people to heating with electric. The US needs to build new nuke plants to increase our generation wile also replacing and redoing most of the electrical grid in this country which would also allow us to harden it against things like EMP's and HEMP weapons. But alas, our leaders are nutless and the nut job environmentalists thwart any sane ideasbased off of how they "feel" rather than reality.
     
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  11. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    If Russia captured control of the Middle East then I bed the idiots in Washington will let Texas and Alaska open up again and tell California that we ARE going to drill there even if the military has to go there and force the issue. We will also crank back up the coal mines. Coal can be liquified and then refined just like oil. The US still has MASSIVE resources and then if we have any bollocks at all we will start trading food for oil or whatever we need. Russia still can't feed its people without our grain and help.

    The good news will be that we will be able to bring our troops home, throw the UN out and find out who our real allies are and who needs to starve to death when the Russians take them and send the food from there to Russia. In the end, Russia can't handle their own country much less the Middle-East or Eastern Europe again. They tend to destabilize places that they try to control and within a couple of years the Middle-East will be at war and the oil fields will burn. then our Texas and Alaskan crude will sell for gold! Bring it ON! With all of our troops and the Fleet back at home, we will be more than able to defend Alaska
     
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  12. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    Definitely at least two wild cards in the deck; Israel for sure, and IMHO Egypt. Given half a chance I think Israel could take over the entire middle East by themselves, even if the Russians were involved. Egypt is still very dependent on U.S. military aid, and may side with the U.S. There could be others; Jordan, Saudi Arabia, maybe Iraq.

    The goat herders will never know, but I would like to think the smarter people in those areas know that dealing with the U.S. would be much better than dealing with Russia.
     
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  13. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    Why..........Why would any country trust America........??? Most of the planet considers America to be "The Great Satan".
     
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  14. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    I don't necessarily agree with that statement. If America is the Great Satan why do so many people want to immigrate here? We still take in far more immigrants than any country in the world. We also give more foreign aid than any other country in the world by far. Russia doesn't even make the top 10 in any list you can find.
     
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  15. watcherchris

    watcherchris Master Survivalist
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    Now now Morgan 101....you know that ordinary Americans are not qualified to make such an statement about America.

    Only Holl\ywood is qualified to make statements about conditions in America....and pass judgement on this country and then Washington DC worships/kisses the backside and the feet of Hollywoods decisions. The rest of us are not qualified to hold any thoughts on such an subject..

    To follow the example of the Great Greta.....How dare you Morgan 101.


    Oh....and lest I forget....default also to any left wing college professor ..they too are as qualified as Hollywood.....not we.....


    My non Ishmaelite .02,
    Watcherchris
     
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  16. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    I don't think we "Give" foreign aid.........without huge strings attached. Example: We will give you money that you can purchase American Made products with. Namely F-22 and F-16 and F-35 Jets, Tanks, American Drones, etc..
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019
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  17. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    Maybe they see America as the bully of the world, or evil, or an oppressor of other countries. If they are living in a Shithole country, and starving, and being oppressed by their rulers.......from their prospective they would choose anything better then what they have. I doubt many if any come to America because they are fully aligned with American foreign policy.
     
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  18. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    If Hitler was alive today I imagine that the left and the countries that see America as the great Satenwould adore him. If we had allowed Hitler to have Europe the death Camps would never have gone empty. Hitler wasn't just killing Jews and when the last of the Jews were gone he would have started on another group. I have no doubt that that sort of thing would make the idiots of the world feel all warm and fuzzy. Russia is so much nicer than the Great Satan. Look at all the wonderful things that they did with the Eastern part of Germany compared to the atrocities on the evil American side.

    America may be satan like...If satan means stupid as hell and persistently trying to help people with giveaways and going to fight and die for other people's freedom. As far as I'm concerned we should withdraw ALL military support from any country that stabs us in the back. If the Germans want to send a platoon to conquer France again we should send them a house warming present.

    We need to get out of the endless Middle East wars and just let them decimate each other. We don't need their oil anymore. We could more than makeup for the loss of it with liquified coal. It would cost a little more but it would make the world a better place just to let them kill each other and STOP letting them come to America.

    The biggest problem with America is that our political system makes us sort of like a schizophrenic with multiple personalities. Every 4 to 8 years we flip flop. Think of the weak whiny Carter administration and then the shock of the Regan administration. Then you had the Clinton situation that let a Warlord kick our butts and he ran away whining then Buch came along and stomped on Iraq. I have no doubt that this makes dealing with us hard. OBummersurendered to all the left-wing attempts to destroy our economy now we have Trump who is close to the exact opposite undoing most of it.

    I agree that it is a mess. we have two diametrically opposed parties neither of which has the best interests of Americans in mind. The problem is I don't think any of the realistic alternatic=ves are better. Whatever though we need to let those that call us the Great satan go to hell in a handbasket and if Russia wants them they can have them. They tried that with Afganastan and got their butts kicked so I'm not very worried.
     
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  19. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    If you'd stop believing Zerohedge is a credible, you'd be better off.
     
  20. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Zerohedge is a sort of the anti-CNN. The biggest difference is that they don't try to claim to be reporting the news. It is upfront about the fact that it is a somewhat biased right-wing point of view. CNN purports to be reporting news and facts while basically being nothing more than a left-wing propaganda device. Their "news" is about as honest and fair as Pravda was before the Wall came down. At least Zerohedge is honest about their perspective and view.
     
  21. randyt

    randyt Master Survivalist
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    It's possible, Russia is a sleeping bear that needs not be underestimated.
     
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  22. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    You don't need to fear your enemies but never underestimate them either.
     
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  23. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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  24. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    Better Russia than China . With my o negative blood the Chinese government would really like to pick me up somewhere and sell my organs .
     
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  25. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning all,

    Just saw a box of the Mayor's new letterhead stationery.

    It's real nice printing on high quality paper.

    I read "Vladivostok, China".

    Germany's OSTPOLITIK requires defending their national border east of a line through Kaliningrad south to the Black Sea.

    ...

    Meanwhile, back at Brussels, is France debating whether to mobilize for war because of the dire situation in Moldova ?
     
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  26. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    Hopefully they do it militarily. Because Afghanistan worked out so well for them. Seems like I remember Russia having some very strict policies on Islam too. The USSR didn't survive the fallout from invading Afghanistan so how would Russia survive invading all of the middle east? The middle east loves to fight. Let Russia have them.
     
  27. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    Well...........Maybe it is RUSSIAS now.
    https://buchanan.org/blog/is-putin-the-new-king-of-the-middle-east-137628

    EXCERPT:

    6,000 miles away?

    “Russia Assumes Mantle of Supreme Power Broker in the Middle East,” proclaimed Britain’s Telegraph. The article began:

    “Russia’s status as the undisputed power-broker in the Middle East was cemented as Vladimir Putin continued a triumphant tour of capitals traditionally allied to the US.”

    “Donald Trump Has Handed Putin the Middle East on a Plate” was the title of a Telegraph column. “Putin Seizes on Trump’s Syria Retreat to Cement Middle East Role,” said the Financial Times.

    The U.S. press parroted the British: Putin is now the new master of the Mideast. And woe is us.

    Before concluding that Trump’s pullout of the last 1,000 U.S. troops in Syria is America’s Dunkirk, some reflection is needed.

    Yes, Putin has played his hand skillfully. Diplomatically, as the Brits say, the Russian president is “punching above his weight.”
     
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  28. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    Turkey can't stop what goes on at an American military base.
    Zerohedge is just parroting the NY Times report.
     
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  29. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Turkey can do what it wants on its own shores. We could nuke Turkey I guess, however it would be an expensive exercise.

    "Turks blockade U.S. nuke base: American airmen without electricity and water"


    This occurred in July 2016. This year, 2019, sure isn't the first time Turkey has backed-up threats against Western nations. Incirlik Air Base can be made to run in greatly-reduced capacity by the Turks. Incirlik is mission-critical for U.S. operations in the Middle East. Turkey may indeed leave NATO and go back to a cold war status with Greece, or a shooting war with Greece. And then Pakistan and India could fight it out. If the U.S. moves out, Russia will let them all fight it out until a few hundred million are killed. Many Americans want all of the people in that region dead, plus let Israel disgorge its arsenal of nukes. Whereupon, Russia will shake'n'bake Israel ... maybe using their cobalt nukes. North America would get some radiation off the mess, but would likely not actually glow in the dark. Dancing the Dance of Shiva.


    https://www.trunews.com/article/tur...merican-airmen-without-electricity-and-water#!

    Again, this is from 2016.

    "The source said that Turkish police units are still maintaining a blockade of the base entrance — which began Friday night — and that critical supplies such as fuel, food, and water are running low. Rationing protocols have gone into effect base-wide, and personnel are enduring above 90°F temperatures without access to air conditioning and other nonessential powered amenities.


    "The source confirmed previous reports that local police entered the Turkish side of Incirlik Air Base on Saturday, and arrested the 10th Base commander, General Bekir Ercan Van. Eleven other Turkish service members and a police officer were arrested, a senior Turkish official confirmed to the Wall Street Journal Sunday"
     
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  30. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    Turkey has always been a pain in the a$$ for the USA. I have a major personal bias against the country due to an "incident" while in the army and trying to get some rest on a layover.

    The USA is exporting petroleum again. If someone starts giving Turkey a bloody nose, they will still scream for our help. Just in the nature of the beast.

    Dale
     
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  31. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Nobody likes Turkey. U.S. / top brass are not wanting war in that region currently.

    In times of relative peace, i.e. no horribly expensive military outlays, we should with aggression become as energy independent as possible. I myself would like to see my country the USA go to nuclear power while working on non-breeder reactors which will be vastly more safe. As a taxpayer, I feel that my monetary inputs would be better spent on technology than war. If however Turkey wants a regional war, then we should spend the hundreds of billions of dollars needed to extract ourselves from that region of the planet. Teach Turkey a lesson then bug-out.

    Getting into a war right now would hand the 2020 elections over to the leftists.
     
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  32. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    https://consortiumnews.com/2019/10/18/pepe-escobar-the-road-to-damascus-how-the-syria-war-was-won/

    EXCERPT:
    Ignorance of the West

    The West, with typical Orientalist haughtiness, never understood that Alawites, Christians, Ismailis and Druze in Syria would always privilege Damascus for protection compared to an “opposition” monopolized by hardcore Islamists, if not jihadis. The West also did not understand that the government in Damascus, for survival, could always count on formidable Baath party networks plus the dreaded mukhabarat — the intel services.

    Rebuilding Syria

    The reconstruction of Syria may cost as much as $200 billion. Damascus has already made it very clear that the U.S. and the EU are not welcome. China will be in the forefront, along with Russia and Iran; this will be a project strictly following the Eurasia integration playbook — with the Chinese aiming to revive Syria’s strategic positioning in the Ancient Silk Road.

    As for Erdogan, distrusted by virtually everyone, and a tad less neo-Ottoman than in the recent past, he now seems to have finally understood that Bashar al-Assad “won’t go,” and he must live with it. Ankara is bound to remain imvolved with Tehran and Moscow, in finding a comprehensive, constitutional solution for the Syrian tragedy through the former “Astana process”, later developed in Ankara.

    The war may not have been totally won, of course. But against all odds, it’s clear a unified, sovereign Syrian nation is bound to prevail over every perverted strand of geopolitical molotov cocktails concocted in sinister NATO/GCC labs. History will eventually tell us that, as an example to the whole Global South, this will remain the ultimate game-changer.
     
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  33. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    A US military base is legally "US soil".
    Turkey can't stop those planes from flying out with the bombs if the US wants to move them.

    Don't fall for the media BS.
     
  34. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Turks shut off our power and blocked the gates. Military can get by, but to support civilian workers, we need local electrical service. We can fly our nukes out of there, however doing so means that Turkey is no longer any part of NATO. Turkish government actions can isolate our air base at Incirlik to the degree that it can no longer execute its current mission. The Turks CAN do the USA real harm. I guess we could go to war with Turkey. Want that?!

    "Just kick Turkey out of NATO!" Easily said, yet the consequences are way too high at this juncture in history. The political ramifications are unimaginably complex. We are hoping to get past Erdogan's presidency. Russia wants America to give up on Turkey. Russia wants to be able to control as much of Europe's access to fuel as it possibly can. Trump, along with our military, is doing his best to hurt Russia's efforts. If anyone thinks that Trump is on Putin's payroll, they are drinking the Kool Aid of the MSM, a propaganda organ of socialism. Trump deals with Putin, even as he had to deal with the Mafia in New York. Putin is Russian mob.

    It is all about oil and natural gas pipelines:

    Back in 2010:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8457063.stm

    Year 2017:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business...ine-a-double-edged-sword-for-europe-1.3162748

    2018:

    http://shoebat.com/2018/11/21/turke...and-azerbaijan-to-eliminate-regional-threats/

    f5b9d9cca33d7752ff97ce078bc1fbaa.png
     
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  35. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    Does NO ONE remember what black ops are? It's something we used to do a lot of and can cause a corrective action without it looking like the USA did a thing. Have we lost that ability?

    Dale
     
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  36. CountryGuy

    CountryGuy Expert Member
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    Sadly I think we have, I think we became so stereotypical spy movie-esq that we don't know how to do things without leaving our fingerprints all over it. And I'm so tired of the leaks we have, and all the MSM and their "undisclosed sources, speaking on a condition of anonymity as they are not authorized to speak on the matter". To me sounds like snitches and traiotors to the oath and secrecy agreements they took or accepted. Maybe if we hung a few of these public style at Leavenworth they leaks would dry up.
     
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  37. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    That's what I said.
    Turkey has no control over them.

    Who cares if they stay in NATO?
    They can't be trusted anyway and they need us more than we need them.

    I prefer to stick with here and now.
    Shoebat is not what I call a credible source.
     
  38. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    .


    I like the sound of that. I was taught to take your secrets to the grave with you and I have never broken that oath. I don't understand how these A-hats tell state secrets and are never prosecuted for it. SEALS break security so much anymore, that they should be considered a form of communication, instead of operators. Maybe I'm just old.

    Dale
     
  39. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    America has the dying "Quivers". Dwight D. Eisenhower told us what would happen, he warned us. We have been fools.
     
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  40. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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  41. watcherchris

    watcherchris Master Survivalist
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    Someone is BSing us big time in that article.

    Why would we ..with todays technology systems ….ever bother to have nukes in an unstable atmosphere like Turkey.??

    Are some of you even thinking???

    I am not sure some of you have any such concept of how accurate our navigation systems are for both nuclear and even conventional munitions today.

    You want to hit a certain building in a certain block in a certain city......ok...no problem.. The finer question today is what window do you want to hit in that building with some of our weapons today.

    This stuff about Russias Tsar Bomb is laughable and designed to stroke fear and trembling in people who cannot think about the technology advances which have made the Tsar Bomb long ago obsolete.

    You need big yield bombs because your delivery systems are not that accurate. Today's delivery systems are very very accurate....and from thousands of miles away. Big bombs are no longer needed unless a target is exceptionally hardened.
    Conventional or nuclear both.


    So why would we ever bother to have nuclear weapons in such an unstable nation like Turkey or any other area???

    Someone out there is gaslighting us big time here.


    I have worked on nuclear submarines...lots of them. The Vertical Launch Tomahawk system in particular.

    I have worked also on Boomer Subs....the large ICBM missile silos as well as other systems through out these boats..

    A submarine is the ultimate stealth platform ...before people even knew much about stealth.


    Why would anyone bother to keep nuclear weapons in an unstable nation like Turkey....think it through ...someone on our end of the world and politics is gas lighting us big time here....the stupidity is astonishing to me

    I don't know if the members here understand this but our boomer boats can launch their weapons tied up to the piers at Kings Bay, Georgia and at Bangor, Washington and hit most places in this world.

    What could they do from in the north or south Atlantic??

    North or South Pacific?? Why would we ever need nuclear weapons stored in such an unstable nation like Turkey??


    You members know here that John Kennedy agreed with the Russians to remove our land based nuclear weapons from Turkey as part of the Settlement over the Cuba business in 1962...yes...???

    It made no difference because the Boomer ICBM submarines were in the process of being built and put to sea...with the first generation Polaris ICBM missiles on them. Land bases overseas were rapidly becoming obsolete..and so too nuclear weapons in Turkey.


    Someone is pulling a fast one on unknowing people raised on a diet of television and or movies...,.the Kardashians and the NFL.

    Think it through people....

    You don't have to buy what I am saying ….but I know what I saw and learned working on Boomers and Tomahawk equipped fast attack boats....and have never forgotten.


    Oh...and the Brits are full of Bravo Sierra....

    It is England who has run rough shod over many of those Middle Eastern nations for many many many years now.

    America is a relative new comer to that area.

    The Brits and their foreign office is a full of Gas Lighting as is our phony CIA and other alphabet agencies when they need to pull one over on the people.

    Keeping nuclear weapons in Turkey and an unstable middle east is some kind of stupid....for many many years now.

    I don't trust the British and definitively not NATO.

    And also be very careful about what our own government tries to tell us about nuclear weapons.


    While I do not know definitively ….but I am strongly suspecting that certain aspects of nuclear weapons are become obsolete today..and that this is a well kept secret...to keep the public properly herded in fear as needed to keep governments in power.

    But I have known that nuclear weapons in Turkey are some kind of dumb and has been for many many years now

    What would be necessary in Turkey is a base for intelligence gathering..and also a communications link...a relay station ...satellite and other high tech communications links. Not just voice coms but data transmission and re transmission...including photo data.

    Not nuclear weapons staging area...that is some kind of stupid in todays unstable world.

    I smell an Ishmaelite at work here in this.


    My non Ishmaelite .02,
    Watcherchris
     
    Justo and TMT Tactical like this.
    1. Dalewick
      W - I believe (haven't read it all in years) that we maintain a nuclear presence in Turkey as part of the Articles of Western Alliance. Not much in NATO has been changed since the cold war. For our part, we really need to demand some major changes in it. More than what Trump has forced so far. I haven't been there in over 30 years, but our bases are fully capable of being self sufficient and closed to the local populace. To much BS being spread on this whole situation.
       
      Dalewick, Oct 20, 2019
      TMT Tactical likes this.
  42. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    Watcherchris, I wouldn't doubt the tactical and strategic capabilities of nukes. People have gotten numb to the capabilities of nuclear warfare due to the media and politicians. We should always pray that our enemies love there children as much as we love ours.
    Russia and China still fear us for our tactical nuke capabilities. Not sure these days where we stand on strategic nuke capabilities. Just my opinion.

    Dale
     
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  43. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Dale,

    Not sure what dates/years you're using for "not much in NATO has changed since the Cold War...".

    I'd add 2 big matters, with major one occurring during Cold War.

    When DeGaulle's France left NATO military, the return DID NOT involve the French nuclear portion of their military. In practical terms, France is not in NATO as far as a defense agreement.

    After the official end of the Cold War, the NATO expansion involved such nations as Poland and Moldova. I cannot believe an attack on Moldova will activate NATO's Article 5 and nations like the UK and Germany will mobilize for war. To me ,NATO member Poland resembles a Czarist buffer state incorporated into the Russian sphere.
     
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  44. watcherchris

    watcherchris Master Survivalist
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    Dalewick,

    Back when my Father was in uniform in SAC...I recall that the USAF tried to keep nuclear weapons airborne somewhere all the time. After the mid air refueling accident off Spain in the 1960s and loss of several weapons….they left them mostly on the ground in alert ready aircraft and at different bases around the world.

    I do know that at one time some of these alert ready aircraft were in Turkey.

    Nonetheless....this role is much obsoleted today by Submarine carried nuclear weapons ….in particular the BOOMERS..ICBM boats. These have some 7 or more warheads per missile..and very very long range. This also puts most of the world in the cross hairs within 20 to 30 minutes ..anywhere in the world.

    The Tomahawk cruise missile has a hodge podge array of warhead types which can be fitted to it...for various missions.


    This makes much of land based ...positioned nuclear weapons risky by comparison...

    Not just prepositioning land based weapons ..but also storage facilities as well as maintenance and upkeep.

    I believe you were Army. Hence I will also tell you that at one time I was National Guard on a 155mm towed artillery crew.
    That should suffice.

    Yes..the average American is not only numb..but also dumb about many things versus what is on television and or movies. I believe the system was so designed for this very result.

    My non Ishmelite .02,
    Watcherchris
     
    Dalewick and TMT Tactical like this.
    1. Dalewick
      Watcherchris, My Dad was also in the Air Force in the late 50' and early 60's. He was a Jet Engine Mechanic and crew chief on B-52's. He had some "interesting" stories. Apparently the Air Force used to be, "not as safe", as they are now with nuclear weapons. He told a story of a 52 that landed in Bangor Maine that "dropped" it's weapon on the runway while landing. It ground through the cover and electronics into the explosives core, but not into the fissionable material. I'd bet it wasn't the only thing that got "dropped" that day.
      I was in the Army. 11B to start and worked Special Ops Recon (Special Reconnaissance) for a few years. I was the guy screaming for a fire mission on the other end of your radio. LOL!
       
      Dalewick, Oct 21, 2019
  45. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    When I attempt to confirm Zerohedge stories, they usually turn out to be true. Have and have had contacts at lieutenant colonel level and often speak with people getting back from all over the planet. Sure, I've read crap on Zerohedge. Got your writers who are pseudo-intellectuals in every publication left-leaning through right-leaning -- y'know the crew who are 120-130 IQ and who can speak well / talk well but who couldn't get through calculus at university. Those folk aside, I've read informative articles in the Zerohedge site. At least the articles can give me enough information to go find out more information from those who actually know. Friends / former co-workers who still are working for the big international companies can fill me in on whether the story is real or not.
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  46. watcherchris

    watcherchris Master Survivalist
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    Dalewick,


    Wow Dalewick,

    My Dad too was a jet engine mechanic and also went back to the piston engine days of the olde KC 97 air tankers. Also at one time a crew chief on propeller air transports...C 118s and C 54s.

    We lived for a year at Dow Air Force Base in Bangor Maine....B 52s with the hound dog missile on the inboard pylons....one on each pylon...two per plane.

    That is a funny story....Nuclear weapons are not that easily set off...contrary to what most people think.

    Wow...I remember that drill where one is moving ones gun to a new location and you are called in for an emergency fire mission to support someone in desperate need....or if you prefer..SHTF for someone out there. It can get dangerous slinging a 155mm howitzer around quickly and then racing like mad to set it up including fusing the shells.

    I don't know if you have seen my previous posts but I work in the nuclear field. We install the fuel cells into
    nuclear reactors on Carriers. Also on occasion we get called to help the reactor guys on Submarines to put in their fuel.

    Most commercial reactors use 20% uranium or less in their reactors.

    Weapons grade uranium is some 85 plus % uranium.


    Someone is trying to keep the Iranians to less than 20% uranium. I don't think they will be successful....by design...by a plan.

    Certain Deep State people here in the west ….Allowed the Soviets to get the bomb...even shipped them much of the stuff they needed to succeed. This is very covered up in most history books.

    Someone in the west also allowed the Chinese access to our advanced weapons designs...someone high up in power...

    The traitors have always been here in the west...not overseas...

    Same bunch in the State Department who sold Russia that Uranium through the State Department....and most of us know who it was.

    Ishmaelites run amok.

    My non Ishmaelite .02,
    Watcherchris
     
    Dalewick and TMT Tactical like this.
    1. Dalewick
      WOW! It truly is a small world.
       
      Dalewick, Oct 22, 2019
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