Kyle Rittenhouse, 17 Year Old Shooter. Assault Or Self Defense?

Discussion in 'News, Current Events, and Politics' started by LastOutlaw, Aug 26, 2020.

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  1. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    Assault or self defense?

     
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  2. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    There were other videos that I watched earlier today showing Kyle being chased by a group and having things thrown at him as he ran away. They may be being scrubbed from the web. It appeared he was cornered and turned and shot his assailant in the head. After he tries to get away and a large group is chasing him. He falls and a few move in on him and he opens fire after being kicked.
    I'm sure there will be more videos come to light as this incident progresses.
    Sadly this is all ramping up daily and at some point if the media is not reigned in it may progress to a point where we all have to make choices on the spot that could put any of us in Kyle's position.
    I have noticed more and more people in my area are open carrying. I live in a Constitutional carry state.
     
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  3. Snyper

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  5. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    I haven't read/seen enough to comment on this particular incident.

    First, folk need to avoid areas and times when the natives are restless. If unavoidable and a person is surrounded by "humans" who have lost control of their glandular behavior, then that person must defend himself/herself. Only repeating firearms are sufficient when we are talking packs of "people". Were I on any jury involving such a case as a person shooting their way out of a mob situation, I would vote "not guilty".

    Black guy gets surrounded by the Klan and he shoots his way out'a there, good. If an angry mob has formed and are assaulting people or throwing Molotov cocktails, then they should be shot. First the police should disperse with teargas, then birdshot, then buckshot. Arsonists should be shot dead with aimed rifle fire.

    In Seattle, "protesters" tried to seal police officers in a building so that they could not escape the crowd's arson attack. This was an attempted mass murder. The "protesters" bent on murder should all have been machine-gunned to death.

    https://mynorthwest.com/2114190/rantz-rioters-burn-seattle-police-alive-sealed-door/
     
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  6. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    from the few bits of film I have seen this was a mob bent on rioting and looting, I think this person was trying to defend a car sales lot where several/many cars had been vandalised and their windows smashed in with baseball bats and rocks. seems to be a simple case of defending property from the mob. but thats is looking from a long way away, across the pond, I could be wrong.
     
  7. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    There are so many incidents happening back-to-back. Quite frankly, in my mind now, a lot of chaos is just becoming part of the civil insurrection / civil war bucket of information in my head.

    What WILL get my attention is when some person or crew opens fire on these rioters. It is going to happen. I'm utterly shocked that some civilian vigilante crew hasn't gone in and opened fire on these rioters. Shows a lot of self-control to me. "Back in the day" if law enforcement wouldn't do anything about this mayhem, believe you me that the men of the local community would have gone in there and wiped out the rioters. Small towns in rural America would do so today. This crap is intolerable in a civilized country.

    This happening in the urban America of today, I just can't get my concern level to rise up for it. Urban America has been degrading into a jungle situation for decades. The protests against police simple set-off the chaos bomb that has just been sitting there ready to go.

    The mass-shooting of looters (20+ killed, >100 wounded) will change the landscape of this insurrection. It will escalate the violence for sure. The International Left could be the shooters of these liberals on the streets -- they're not above killing there own to bring about "change".
    .
     
  8. Caribou

    Caribou Master Survivalist
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    I am not an attorney and I don't play one on TV.

    Lethal force is legal when you are defending yourself against disparate force. For example, a woman defending herself against a man. Men are generally considered stronger. Multiple attackers is another example of disparate force. This guy was being chased by several young, strong, men. Self defence is not a valid claim if you started the fight unless you have clearly withdrawn from the encounter. He was clearly running away from the encounter with multiple attackers. Looks like a clean shoot to me with the resources available at this time.
     
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  9. Snyper

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  10. Snyper

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  11. LastOutlaw

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    This video cuts off the actual assault and shooting (spot where it goes black) then jumps ahead to the shooter jogging to police with his hands up trying to turn himself in. He was told to get off the street by police as they drive by him.
     
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  12. LastOutlaw

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    The guy who was shot in the arm was also armed and had backed off when the guy was shot in the chest after the shooter fell and was kicked. Then the guy pulled a gun from behind his back in his belt and was coming back again to kill the shooter kid. Shooter kid beat him to the draw and shot him in the arm.
     
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  13. LastOutlaw

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    In this second video at the beginning the bald guy who keeps saying "shoot me Ni**a" is the guy who was shot in the head later on after chasing and throwing something at the young shooter. He has been identified today as a registered sex offender.
     
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  14. LastOutlaw

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    Personally if I had driven from another state with a group who entered the protest area armed I would have already expected to have to shoot someone and that I would be going to jail for doing so. In today's age one can not depend on the laws on the books or that the court will do the right thing for you.

    Too many district attorneys were funded by Soros over the past years and placed into positions that would be useful to their cause today. Judges as well. The chance of getting a fair trial in this country today is getting lower and lower.

    As BLM moves from city areas and into suburbs as they are beginning to do I expect to hear of other shooting incidents. Being in a business area of a city at night is very different than protesting through people's neighborhoods demanding that they leave and give up their property as they have begun to do. I've already heard of one person coming out armed and luckily only shooting warning shots. I expect to see more confrontations in the future if this action continues.

    People will only tolerate this type of behavior for a short period and from afar. When you walk into someone's safe zone where their wives and children sleep toleration goes away pretty quickly.

    I sure don't see how these actions are going to benefit the Democratic party come election day. Sure they may pick up a few hundred thousand votes or so from idiots and criminals but the masses in either party will not vote for more of it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2020
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  15. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    When motivated to be the "good guy", think long and hard. Wise action requires forethought and a lot of it.

    In a war, the principals must be turned into casualties. Think that this is easy? Think again. Takes youth, a team, extreme skill sets, the patience of Job, wisdom FAR beyond the youthful years of this crew, young men who have known hell from childhood on up, a willingness to do things that can get a person killed, yet brings smiles to the faces of this team.

    Nuking a few grunts -- or a mountain of grunts -- means absolutely nothing. Gotta put one in the boiler works. And then again. And then again.
    .
     
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  16. LastOutlaw

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  17. Snyper

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    8bc56b3c627922eb440c068d429581a2.jpeg img hosting
     
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  18. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    Here are the charges:

    https://www.breitbart.com/crime/202...ainst-kyle-rittenhouse-faces-life-in-prison/#

    Prosecutors Unveil Charges Against Kyle Rittenhouse; Faces Life in Prison
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    Scott Olson / Getty Images
    Joel B. Pollak28 Aug 20202,083
    3:32


    Kenosha County, Wisconsin, prosecutors filed criminal charges Thursday against Kyle Rittenhouse, 17, for first-degree murder in the shooting of two people during the unrest in Kenosha on Tuesday night. He faces life in prison if convicted.

    In both alleged murders, the complaint describes Rittenhouse being attacked first, suggesting he may claim self-defense.

    He is also charged with attempted murder for the shooting of another man, who was allegedly holding a handgun at the time.

    Daily Caller reporter Richard McGinnis, who administered first aid to the first man shot, is a key witness in the complaint.

    The complaint describes the shootings in detail:

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    The first man shot and killed was Joseph Rosenbaum, who is described as chasing Rittenhouse across a parking lot. In a video, the complaint said, Rosenbaum “appears to throw an object” at Rittenhouse, which appeared to be a plastic bag and did not hit him. After a loud bang was heard on the video, Rosenbaum continued to pursue Rittenhouse until he was shot. McGinnis is quoted in the complaint as saying that Rosenbaum appeared to be trying to grab the gun from Rittenhouse.

    McGinnis adds that he had just spoken to Rittenhouse and advised him that he was not handling his weapon well when Rosenbaum and other people began chasing Rittenhouse. No provocation for the pursuit is described in the pursuit.

    The complaint then describes Rittenhouse running away from a large group of people, some of whom were attacking him and shouting things such as, “Get him! Get that dude!” and “Beat him up!”. During the melee, the second man shot and killed, Anthony Huber, is described as having attacked Rittenhouse with a skateboard after the latter had fallen to the ground. Huber is also described as having attempted to grab Rittenhouse’s gun before being shot once and later dying from that wound.

    A third man, Gaige Grosskreutz, is also described as having approached Rittenhouse. At first, according to the complaint, Grosskreutz raised his hands in a gesture of surrender, then continued approaching and appeared to be holding a handgun. He was then shot in the right arm.

    Rittenhouse also faces a charge of recklessly endangering safety through the use of a dangerous weapon, based on the claim that McGinnis was in the line of fire when Rittenhouse first shot his attacker. According to the complaint, McGinnis thought he himself may have been shot at the time. Another charge of recklessly endangering safety refers to an unknown individual who is described as having been in the line of fire later in the confrontation.

    Rittenhouse is also charged with a firearms violation for possession of a dangerous weapon under age 18, with a minimum penalty of nine months in jail. He faces six criminal counts overall.

    On Friday, Rittenhouse is scheduled to appear in court in Lake County, Illinois, for an extradition hearing that will allow him to be tried in Wisconsin. He is a resident of Antioch, Illinois.

    Joel B. Pollak is Senior Editor-at-Large at Breitbart News and the host of Breitbart News Sunday on Sirius XM Patriot on Sunday evenings from 7 p.m. to 10 p.m. ET (4 p.m. to 7 p.m. PT). His new book, RED NOVEMBER, tells the story of the 2020 Democratic presidential primary from a conservative perspective. He is a winner of the 2018 Robert Novak Journalism Alumni Fellowship. Follow him on Twitter at @joelpollak.
     
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  19. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Learning opportunities

    A person or persons could learn to bust steering columns and to wear masks. And new barrels, there's something. Those old, used barrels, what good are they?! They need to rest at the bottom of deep lakes.
    .
     
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  20. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    In my opinion this is the best explanation of this event.

     
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  21. LastOutlaw

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    A GoFundMe account was set up quickly after the incident to fund an attorney but GoFundMe removed it. They did however leave one up for the guy who was shot by police in Kenosha.
    I see now though that he has an attorney and I've heard it is the same attorney who is making that Sandmann kid all that money from suing the newspapers. I also heard he is taking it as a Pro-bono case.

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/accused-kenosha-shooters-lawyer-claims-self-defense-amid-new-video

    Accused Kenosha shooter's lawyer claims self-defense amid new video
    'Kyle did nothing wrong. He exercised his God-given, Constitutional, common law and statutory law right to self-defense,' defense attorney John Pierce said.
    By Louis Casiano | Fox News

    Fox News Flash top headlines are here. Check out what's clicking on Foxnews.com.

    A 17-year-old charged in two shooting deaths amid a chaotic demonstration in Kenosha, Wis., earlier this week feared for his life after being attacked by rioters who chased and beat him, his attorney said Friday.

    In a lengthy statement, the lawyer for Kyle Rittenhouse, John Pierce, said prosecutors rushed to judgment in charging his client to appease "divisive" and "destructive" forces without analyzing Tuesday's events.

    "This was not a serious investigation," Pierce said. "Rather, after learning Kyle may have had conservative political viewpoints, they immediately saw him as a convenient target who they could use as a scapegoat to distract from the Jacob Blake shooting and the government’s abject failure to ensure basic law and order to citizens."

    The shootings were recorded via cellphone and circulated online.


    H9GROXcK0tF4kCPxMnTWt7_sLNQuXFUE.jpeg
    Kyle Rittenhouse, left, with backwards cap, walks along Sheridan Road in Kenosha, Wis. on Tuesday with another armed civilian. (Adam Rogan/The Journal Times via AP)<br>

    Rittenhouse faces multiples criminal charges, including first-degree intentional homicide, in connection with the fatal shooting that killed two people and wounded a third. The Antioch, Ill., resident is being held in police custody pending extradition to Wisconsin. A Friday court hearing was delayed until Sept. 25.

    Pierce said Rittenhouse was armed and decided to protect an auto mechanic shop across the street from a dealership that he heard was largely destroyed during riots the night before. He said the weapon did not cross state lines, but did not say where Rittenhouse got the gun.

    As demonstrators largely ignored an 8 p.m. curfew, authorities began to move people toward the auto shop, where Rittenhouse was verbally threatened by passersby, Pierce claimed.

    H9GROXcK0tF4kCPxMnTWt7_sLNQuXFUE.jpeg Video
    Moments before the first shooting, Rittenhouse sought out injured people to render aid at a nearby gas station, Pierce said. When he tried making his way back to the auto shop, he was chased by a "mob" who recognized him as the person guarding the shop they "wanted to destroy."

    He said an attacker lunged at the teen, prompting him to fire his weapon. The attacker was struck. Rittenhouse attempted to render aid, but fled after more angry protesters headed toward him, Piece said.

    "Another attacker struck Kyle from behind as he fled down the street," Pierce's statement said. "Kyle turned as the mob pressed in on him and he fell to the ground. One attacker kicked Kyle on the ground while he was on the ground. Yet another bashed him over the head with a skateboard.

    "Several rioters tried to disarm Kyle. In fear for his life and concerned the crowd would either continue to shoot at him or even use his own weapon against him, Kyle had no choice but to fire multiple rounds towards his immediate attackers, striking two, including one, armed attacker," the attorney's statement continued. "The rest of the mob began to disperse upon hearing the additional gunshots."

    According to a criminal complaint, Joseph Rosenbaum, 36, of Kenosha, followed Rittenhouse into a used car lot, and attempted to take the weapon from him. Rosenbaum was shot in the groin and back, according to the medical examiner.

    H9GROXcK0tF4kCPxMnTWt7_sLNQuXFUE.jpeg Video
    Anthony Huber, 26, of Silver Lake, was shot in the chest after trying to wrest the gun from Rittenhouse, the complaint said. A third person, Gaige Grosskreutz, 26, was wounded in the left arm after approaching the teen, authorities said.

    Rosembaum and Huber were killed.

    The Kenosha Police Department or the Kenosha District Attorney's Office did not return calls and emails from Fox News.

    Defense attorneys contend Rittenhouse tried contacting authorities, who indicated he should "keep moving" amid a chaotic scene. Authorities have been criticized for not arresting him after the shooting. He was taken into custody Wednesday in Illinois.

    "There were a lot of people in the area. A lot of people with weapons and unfortunately, a lot of gunfire," Kenosha Police Chief Daniel Miskinis said Friday. "There was nothing to suggest that this person was involved in criminal behavior.

    Defense lawyers claim Rittenhouse's actions were justified while being attacked from an angry mob intent on hurting him.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2020
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  22. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    Just a note not mentioned:
    Kyle fires 4 shots in the first shooting when he is cornered by Rosenbaum. You can hear them in the video. Before that, as he is running you hear a shot too. According to Dr. Kelley in the police report Rosenbaum had 5 wounds.
     
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