Protecting yourself from predators, without a gun.

Discussion in 'The Hangout' started by tb65, Jun 7, 2016.

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  1. tb65

    tb65 Active Member
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    I always wondered how the native Americans protected themselves from predators. Living in the wilderness where there could be wolves bears or even mountain lions could be dangerous, but native Americans survived in these habitats. I think they may have had more than bows and arrows to fight off attacks from certain animals. I think that without a gun a spear would be the best option. How would you protect yourself from predators in the wilderness?
     
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  2. OursIsTheFury

    OursIsTheFury Expert Member
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    Fire can repel ferocious beasts that roam the night, because it's a primal instinct to avoid the flames. You can also climb trees to evade wolves and bears, as well as cross bodies of water like streams or rivers to deter any animal that is chasing you. There's really not much you can do to proactively fight back against the beasts of the wild without a gun, unless you are somehow a close combat expert, where you can punch your way out of a bear's grasps, but if that's not the case, running away and living to fight another day is the best way to prevent injuries or even death when confronted with a beast of nature.
     
  3. Corzhens

    Corzhens Master Survivalist
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    Being in an alien place is a cause for extra precaution. I was born and raised in a city apartment so it is expected that the woods or the wild is an alien place to me. That is true. My only hope is my husband who has enough adventures since he was an assistant scout master before.

    Faced with the task of finding food in the wild, another concern is the attack of predators that may inflict harm. A wooden stick with a length equal to your height would be the best defense. If a snake appears, you can protect yourself with the stick by using it to toss the snake. When an attacker like a wild boar emerges, you can use the end of the stick to harm the wild boar so it would be deterred. And during night time, the best defense would be fire. Get big branches or logs that you can use as fuel for a bonfire that you intend to last until morning. The bonfire can keep you safe somehow.
     
  4. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    A good strong spear if nothing else but im allways armed with gun so im not afraid to wander. Most wild animals avoid people attack by wild beast very rare
     
  5. cluckeyo

    cluckeyo Well-Known Member
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    Mr. Cluckeyo once had an encounter with a grizzly bear while camping in Yellowstone. He was by himself in a little tent and the bear came sniffing of his tent. It was dark and he had a lantern. He thought for a few moments and then grabbed the lantern and turned it on. He placed it so that it would exagerate the size of his body as it shown through the fabric of the tent. And he made loud noises. The bear left. He is pretty good about dealing with bears.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2016
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  6. judyd1

    judyd1 New Member
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    There are a lot of natural traps that you could set around your property or compound. Trip wires, concealed pits, metal traps--although the first two are not as painful as the last. Still, if someone wants to be above-board, they will approach your home directly, not in a stealthy way. So someone sneaking up on your property really deserves any surprises they might get.
     
  7. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Native Americans were an important part of the Fur Trade, & had access to steel bladed knives & Trade axes (tomahawks) from at least the 16th century. In the 17th century there was the Snaphaunce gun, & in the 18th century the Flintlock. The flintlock was favoured by white woodsmen & Indians alike, it was then, & still is now, a superior firearm for wilderness living. Even after the production of the percussion gun, the flintlock was retained by those living in the wilderness because it was dependable.
    Before the trade with Indians the natives would have had the bow & knives crafted from siliceous rocks. They also had ball headed clubs. With the advent of the flintlock gun, many Indians gave up using the bow in preference of the gun.
    I live in a forest & still use & depend on the same tools that were in use 300 years ago. I do own modern firearms, but would never depend on them.
    Keith.
    [​IMG]
     
  8. John Snort

    John Snort Well-Known Member
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    Most animals tend to be very aggressive when you wander to close to their lairs or if they have young. Learn to read animal tracks, avoid such places and you'll be relatively safe.

    As it has been mentioned, never run from a predator. Even the fastest man on earth couldn't outrun any predator. Turn your back on any predator and you are dead. Use whatever weapons you have to drive away the predator because they have been known to flee if their prey is very aggressive.
     
  9. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    not that we have serious predators in the UK, we killed most of them off in the past, the worst ones are probably a Wild Boar or a Mink, but most people even if they spend their whole life in the countryside will probably never see either, wild animals tend to hear us a long way off and by the time we get there are long gone.
     
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  10. tb65

    tb65 Active Member
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    Wow that sounds like some scary stuff. A bear is definitely a dangerous animal especially a grizzly. I know that what he did is what they advise people to do which is good. But with a animal that size I'd rather have a AK47 LOL. I think this may have been the only safe way to deal with this situation without a gun, if he tried to attack the bear even with a spear that would have been a bad idea. I think this was the only way to go.
     
  11. remnant

    remnant Expert Member
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    No matter how well prepared you are, you will have to reckon with predators especially when you fall asleep and are at your weakest. Since you can't light a fire throughout, the other alternative is to have an illuminating flashlight about you when you go to sleep. A potent technique is to source for animal scents (sourced from wildlife practitioners). If you can wear the scent of a lion or get its preserved body part to mark your territory, no animal will take its chances.
     
  12. Lisa Davis

    Lisa Davis Active Member
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    Native Americans protected themselves well in the wilderness with all types of weapons that they created themselves. They certainly were true survivalists to me! However, many of them did not survive their greatest enemy with or without firearms. This enemy was of course "the white man." When Europeans invaded their territory, they killed, took advantage and mistreated a lot of Indians because they had better weapons and were more modernized. The Indians that weren't killed off by European weapons usually got done in by European diseases that they brought over with them. Things like smallpox devastated Indian population. Europeans were using modern disease warfare without even knowing it.
     
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  13. glreese

    glreese Member
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    If I was unable to carry a gun, I would arm myself with a bow and arrow, a spear, and a good knife. I might also consider wasp spray or pepper spray. The police suggest people who cannot carry guns (like school teachers in school) carry wasp spray or have it by there desk. It causes serious damage and can shoot a long ways.
     
  14. AWPEK

    AWPEK New Member
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    The best way to protect yourself from a predator would have to be the use of a typical sharp edged stick. You can upgrade the tip and use something harder like a diamond shaped rock, metal iron, and etc. It depends on the location and if you can find a spot in which useless items can be found and can be of good use for cutting. Now if you have a machete or something that similar to a knife then you can use that to either create traps, combat or creating other tools that can aid you in the combat. Also, remember that you have the option of running away or hiding until the predator flees from the area. You don't always have to put your life on the line since you are trying to survive and live each day like a new. If you do engage in combat and somehow kill the predator then I would suggest harvesting it's meat and fur quickly or it may spoil.
     
  15. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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  16. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    The one thing that I ALWAYS have when I go into the woods is a walking stick. My favorite right now is a shepherd's crook stock cane that is about 6'/2m long. A gun isn't the best thing in all situations. A cranky dog or a pig with attitude can be hit and sent running and the length keeps it well away from you. This is a stout rod and capable of dealing out crippling blows if needed or gentle nudges if you just want to move a snake out of your area without harming it.

    I have a lot of walking sticks. I have turned the bottom of all of them so that if needed I can pull off the rubber foot and slip on a Cold Steel Bushman to make it a deadly spear. I'm not sure that the Bushman isn't the best general use knife that is designed to also be a spear that I have ever handled. If I was being dropped in a jungle and could only have one knife that would be my pick.

    Even when you have a gun a spear is still massively useful. You can dispatch trapped animals without taking a chance of getting bit or scratched or wasting a bullet. A shorter stick if it is a little heavier and shaped right makes a great third leg and a club. For me a blackthorn shillelagh that is about 37" long is perfect. I have a cold steel one but am planning on a more original one eventually.

    This is a little different but I like a black snake bullwhip a LOT. I can keep critters at a distance with one and in a pinch, you can turn one around and beat something to death with the weighted end or strangle something with it used as a garrot. A 6' or 8' bullwhip can make a real impression on an animal or person.
     
  17. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    As Sourdough stated, "Never retreat from a predator!". That goes for all predators, bears, cats, canines and mustelids. In the U.S. most predators will flee from you on sight or as soon as they smell you. This is primarily for predators that are hunted and trapped by humans. The primary exceptions are Grizzly bears, mountain lion and rarely wolves, coyotes and black bears. I have dealt with and trapped all of the above for work at some point. Grizzlies without a weapon are a coin toss. Stand your ground, but be still. Sourdough has WAY more experience with grizzlies than I do. With black bears, make yourself as large as possible, scream & yell and be aggressive toward the bear. Only if the bear is in a predation mode will it not run away. If it continues to attack,...FIGHT! Your life depends on it, because the bear considers you food. The same tactics should be used on wolves, coyotes and mountain lions. Just my opinion.

    Dale
     
  18. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Don't know how many times I've taken girls out hiking and not had a gun with me. Understand that since age 12, I've had firearms. Dad bought me a .22 mag revolver, Colt Buntline 7 1/2" barrel, when I was 17 (thanks Dad, God's Mercy be upon you). So I had shotguns, semi-auto .22s, deer rifle, whatever else by high school age. But I was out with these pretty girls hiking (I'm ugly, don't understand) armed only with reefer.

    God spared us. We often were hiking within bear sanctuary. Rednecks were more of a danger than any bear. Again, God spared us. I'd worked Forestry, knew what was out there. I d'know.

    Bought a flip-open knife recently at a pawn shop; thought maybe I could resurrect it; paid $4 American. No resurrection; I did try. Gonna make me a spear. Gonna make me a sheath so that I won't lance myself with this new walking stick. So I gotta have a walking stick anyway, so why not turn it into a pig-sticker?!

    Humans and spears, how many millennia does that go back?!

    Prefer a .357 w/180-grainers (158 anyway), but might not just have one w/me. Gotta .38 belly-gun on me right now. Wadcutters. A bit sissy. whatever

    Gonna make me a spear.

    Should I paint my face?!

    7vcfCA-yR815jBoECJxRiOUJX-0beUjW.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
  19. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    what predators, the worst we have are Wild Boar and Mink and I have yet to meet anyone who has come face to face with either, humans are so clumsy and noisy most animals are long gone before anyone gets near them.
     
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  20. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    I am more concerned with predators with guns!
    Keith.
     
  21. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    Something I have tried researching for the longest time with no luck: information about how the ancient Israelite shepherds would fend off lions and wolves to protect their sheep. How did they use their staff to do this? Just what technique did they use? Did they also use a sling? I'm pretty sure they must have, but the information is scanty. I'm still looking...



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  22. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    i'm pretty sure they had slings, as in David and Goliath.
     
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  23. duke in wales

    duke in wales Expert Member
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    Just carry out a search on Google, there is a lot of information of interest to you there.
     
  24. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    I know my Google Fu very well, and so far, I have not had any luck finding much on the technique of fighting lions with a shepherd’s staff, ancient Israelite-style.

    There are lots of tutorials about self defense with a sling, as well the Oriental art of stick fighting (which is not even close to the same thing to what the Israelites had).

    Still searching!
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  25. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning all,

    It's only a tangent to this but when growing up (actually never did) we thought "Thy" was Old English for "My" and the question was, if left handed, what do you put in your left hand, the rod or the staff. ("Thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me.)

    This was actually the question of what was a rod; what was a staff ? Still don't know.

    ......

    When I'm in a field / wilderness environment I always carry a firefighter's 10 ft. pike pole. Besides its usual uses, good for moving away spider webs and interfering thorn branches on path. Plus, the pole and lightning are compatible.
     
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  26. The Innkeeper

    The Innkeeper Master Survivalist
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    Yes they used a sling, the Biblical accounts are clear on it
     
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  27. duke in wales

    duke in wales Expert Member
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    Look at the weapons they had available and use your imagination as to how they employed them in action. I don't think they wrote combat manuals back then, certainly not for shepherds, doubtful you will find the 'ABC book of Lion fighting using a staff'.
     
  28. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    There are lots of tutorials on how to make and use just about every kind of weapon in history. Too bad there isn’t as much information about the technique of fighting with a shepherd’s staff as can be found about the sling and other weapons.



    Yes it is easy to imagine the sling was used for distance work, but not for close up work against lions and wolves. For that, I had hoped to find more details. Oriental stick fighting employs a short baton, and the technique would be vastly different than for a long staff.

    I had hoped to find something more useful than imagination, so the search continues.


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  29. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good afternoon Duke in Wales,

    Probably not combat manuals (combat scrolls ?) but, if so, surely better than the trash here in the land of lost tribes. The US Army's Field Manual originally titled "Hand To Hand Combat" was changed to "Combatives". By now it's probably "Listen to the other sides point of view before making a judgment. Try to get along. Be a ' Care Bear' " (FM 21-150)

    "Half my servants did work and half held lances and shields, bows and armor." Nehemiah

    "The basket carriers were burdened doing work with one hand while the other held a weapon." Nehemiah

    I'm not providing the explicit references both because don't want to contribute to "Bible Studies" and I'm an atheist as I define the word. I do have much material here on this subject but only for my study as a pragmatic historian.
     
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  30. duke in wales

    duke in wales Expert Member
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    The only 'servant' I have come round four mornings a week and the only thing she holds is a duster or vacuum cleaner, am I being too easy on the woman?
     
  31. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Yes, too easy.

    The vacuum is full spectrum audio-visual with transponder. The duster is the antenna.

    She is a Colonel in China's PLA seconded to the Royal Marines. All this is undercover.

    I only learned about this because the maid left her purse here and every rhinestone on it was a fish eye lens with transponder. They now know my pending suggested location for a new runway at Heathrow. I am an environmentalist and want to save the planet.
     
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  32. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    It's OK, lol. It didn't bother me in the least. I have noticed a bit condescending snark in a few of The Duke's comments elsewhere on this board and accept it as part of his quirky personality.

    Some feel compelled to elevate themselves by putting others down for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with me, so I would be foolish to be upset by anything they say.


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  33. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    GA, what you won't find is how they used a staff to fend off lions. What you can find is how and why shepherd dogs were breed and trained. Lions, wolves and bears will attack a man but they will run from barking dogs. This is why even now most tribal peoples that have herd animals, have dogs. Even the Massai in Africa who greatly value their cattle and use bomas at night have dogs for warning of predators.

    Dale
     
  34. The Innkeeper

    The Innkeeper Master Survivalist
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    I have seen a sling thrown rock kill a coyote at 25 feet, and chase away a bear at 50 feet with a solid hit to its side. They are pretty deadly close in. Admittedly I don’t know anyone personally who has killed a lion with a sling
     
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  35. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    Those Canaan dogs are formidable and were a big help in guarding the flock, but ancient Israelites didn't rely solely on them for protection. The staff (as well as the rod) played a part as well.

    For example:

    https://www.ancient-hebrew.org/manners/shepherd-life-the-care-of-sheep-and-goats.htm

    The shepherd's staff
    David mentions the staff along with the rod in his Shepherd Psalm (Psa. 23:4.). It is a stick five or six feet long and sometimes but not always has a crook at the end of it. It is used like Western men would use a cane or walking stick. It is useful in handling the sheep, and also for protection.

    The shepherd's rod
    It is like a policeman's club. It is often made of oak wood and has a knob on the end of it. Into this knob nails are sometimes driven so as to make a better weapon. It is very useful for protection, and no shepherd would be without it. It was no doubt the rod that David used in protecting his sheep from wild animals (1Sam. 17:34-36). He mentions both the rod and the staff in his Shepherd Psalm (Psa. 23:4).



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  36. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    While it is unlikely that I will be feeding and housing large dogs for protection in a SHTF situation, it is highly likely that I will confront feral dogs. As I brought out in another thread, even a gun is no match for a pack of feral dogs that are sure to be prevalent in severe and widespread SHTF situations, unless I had a machine gun, lol.

    https://mysurvivalforum.com/threads/wooden-or-metal-bat.6163/page-2#post-53072




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  37. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    My vote goes for the traditional cattle prod preferably with amp rating.
     
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  38. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    I'm just going to take a wild guess here, but if we are talking about four legged predators wouldn't fire have been a primary method of self defense? Maybe it protects the shepard better than the sheep, but it would have protected the native Americans as well. Just my .02 cents.
     
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  39. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    I wonder if the Shepard used the hook part for safely pulling. Example, maybe pulling dogs that are fighting apart, rather then risk getting bit using his hands, or when dividing the flock, being able to hook the neck of some animals and guide them one way, either into or not into a corral. Just seems to me that a hook is for catching or pulling/retrieving.
     
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  40. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    I did not get the impression that this is what Grizz was implying duke.
    Keith.
     
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  41. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  42. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    Keith, now there is an ax you can really count on. Thanks for the post and picture.
     
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  43. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Ms. Grizz most all preditors are extremely cautious. If they get injured they will die if they can't hurt. If you make yourself look big and dangerous they will usually go find something else to try and eat. Mankind has been killing predators for thousands of years and in general, very few healthy animals consider humans as prey. Even sharks will spit you out as soon as they realize what you are.

    If you poke a lion in the face with a staff his response is to back off and then if you stand strong he will go away. They KNOW that to lose an eye is death for them. When a preditor takes a human there is usually something wrong with it. They get you when they can sneak up on you or if you are stupid enough to run.

    GENERALLY, if you stand your ground and offer resistance they will back off. About the only exception has to do with them protecting their young but even then they mostly want you to leave and if you will slowly back off they will let you go. Their interest is in protecting their babies. A Shephard knew his adversaries well. They often had dogs to prevent being caught unaware. The lions want the sheep. as long as the Shephard doesn't allow the lion to sneak up on them they were pretty safe. Pack animals like wolves were historically a greater danger to humans.

    Understanding the nature of a beast is the most important thing. Only man kills for no reason except pleasure...
     
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  44. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    Of course. Yes, yes, and yes. This is mostly correct for normal animal behavior. Add hunger, rabies, etc. to the mix, then you have a different paradigm shift. Same thing for a pack of feral dogs that are habituated to humans.

    I am pretty sure animals were not the only things that those shepherds had to fight off. In some areas, human predators may have figured into the mix as well. Historical accounts show that the shepherds were quite adept with the staff for protection.

    I had posted similar questions on other boards. And based on the replies I got, I believe the techniques that the ancient Israelites may have used could have been something between cane fighting and oriental stick fighting, which I am currently looking into.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=can...1.69i57j0l5.6396j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

    https://www.google.com/search?q=ori...rome..69i57.4532j1j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


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  45. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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  46. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    GA, I am familiar with both actually. There were some shepherds out west that still were using mostly the staff as a tool for working the sheep. From what I have been told by shepherds , the shepherds rod was very similar in construction to the Maasai weapon, the Rungu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rungu_(weapon) Such stick weapons were wide spread across the globe. Not much when scarring off a lion or bear but better than nothing. As previously stated slings were also a common weapon and more than capable of actually killing large predators. In the area you have referenced, not only were there lions, bears and wolves for the people to deal with, but there was also leopards, hyenas, crocodiles and jackals. Since boys were primarily the defenders of the flocks, I would guess they used the simplest of weapons as weapons using iron or bronze were rare in those days for the Israelites.

    There seems to be more unknown about the weapons of the Israelites at that time than is known.

    Dale
     
  47. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    I have been attacked by wild feral dogs, wild boar, wild bull, buffalo & humans, & none of these backed off even though I stood my ground.
    Keith.
     
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  48. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    You will note that none of these are predatory animals. A feral dog is basically an insane animal. You are right though nonpredatory animals have very little back up in them once they go into attack mode. In India, the boar was placed well above the tiger as far as the danger of hunting them was concerned. There were instances where a hunter on an elephant was killed by a boar after it had gutted and killed the elephant!!!!

    I think that it may have to do with the way herd animals survive. One animal will make an all-out attack while the rest RUN AWAY. You HAVE to understand the nature of each beast to handle them. This sort of unrelenting attack posture is exactly why Hippopotamuses kill more people than Lions or even crocs. When a nonpredatory animal fights they are usually fighting for their lives and surrender means death.

    I've worked with hogs, cattle, and horses all of my life and when any of them get scared or angry enough to attack your only hope is to get out of their reach. All three have put me over a fence in a hurry at one time or another. If you stand your ground you will get stomped or ripped. Fortunately none of these critters can climb and I can!!!
     
  49. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Good response Tex, agreed.
    Keith.
     
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  50. duke in wales

    duke in wales Expert Member
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    As for using a staff why not look at the Japanese Bo, plenty of videos on youtube.
     
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