Question About United States Military......especially The National Guard.

Discussion in 'General Q&A' started by IBME, Apr 12, 2019.

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  1. IBME

    IBME Expert Member
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    Question about United States Military......especially the National Guard.

    So.......Please help me to understand. I have long understood (read thought) that the United States Military was/is prohibited from attacking Americans inside the borders of America. So first question is that accurate.....???

    Second, I was of the understanding that the "National Guard" was exempt from the above, as it was/is a domestic unit under the management (direct or indirect) of the Governors of each state/territory/district/etc.. And that this is what allowed for the shooting and killing of (8) Eight students at the Ohio State University about 1968, by The Ohio National Guard.

    So I am looking for a clear understanding of any "Military" attacking Americans, and exactly who can authorize that action.

    Note: I do not have any issue with the United States Military........however I would like to be crystal clear as to what they can and can't do inside the borders of America to citizens of America. With talk of Civil War II or Revolution, I should think this is somewhat important.
     
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  2. IBME

    IBME Expert Member
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    If there is widespread civil unrest in America. Say for example the Longshoremen's Union was on strike, and it has lasted for seven weeks. The Teamster's Union has all or nearly all the trucking companies closed with truckers on strike. The Railroad Workers Union and Pullmans Union are on strike. The "ARMY" National Guard, has been attempting to quell massive civil unrest riots.

    Now say, The "ARMY" National Guard, has taken very heavy casualties, Up to 17% of "ARMY" National Guardsmen have been killed or wounded. Here is the question......???

    Can the United States Army, transfer seventy-eight thousand troops to the "ARMY" National Guard.....???

    In a "Purely" domestic disturbance in America, can The United States Marines, be sent to reinforce the "Army" National Guard.....???

    Now for extra bonus points. Why does it appear as if the American people's government is covertly consolidating power to enforce its will, on the people whom it is charged with protecting and serving......???
     
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  3. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    As I understand it, military may lawfully be ordered by Congress to give limited support to or act in concert with civilian law enforcement while the national guard may operate within its home state or adjacent state on the instruction of the relevant state governors

    This next bit is cut and paste so feel free to ignore the links (in green)

    The Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 prohibits the use of U.S. military forces to perform the tasks of civilian law enforcement such as arrest, apprehension, interrogation, and detention unless explicitly authorized by Congress.
    The Posse Comitatus Act, signed into law by President Rutherford B. Hayes on June 18, 1878, limits the power of the federal government in the use of federal military personnel to enforce U.S. laws and domestic policies within the borders of the United States. The law was passed as an amendment to an army appropriation bill following the end of Reconstruction and was subsequently amended in 1956 and 1981.
    As originally enacted in 1878, the Posse Comitatus Act applied only to the U.S. Army but was amended in 1956 to include the Air Force. In addition, the Department of the Navy has enacted regulations intended to apply the Posse Comitatus Act restrictions to the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps.
    The Posse Comitatus Act does not apply to the Army National Guard and the Air National Guard when acting in a law enforcement capacity within its own state when ordered by the governor of that state or in an adjacent state if invited by that state’s governor.
    Operating under the Department of Homeland Security, the U.S. Coast Guard is not covered by the Posse Comitatus Act. While the Coast Guard is an “armed service,” it also has both a maritime law enforcement mission and a federal regulatory agency mission.
    The Posse Comitatus Act was originally enacted due to the feeling of many members of Congress at the time that President Abraham Lincoln had exceeded his authority during the Civil War by suspending habeas corpus and creating military courts with jurisdiction over civilians.
    It should be noted that the Posse Comitatus Act greatly limits, but does not eliminate the power of the President of the United States to declare "martial law," the assumption of all civilian police powers by the military.
    The president, under his or her constitutional powers to put down insurrection, rebellion, or invasion, may declare martial law when local law enforcement and court systems have ceased to function. For example, after the bombing of Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941, President Roosevelt declared martial law in Hawaii at the request of the territorial governor.

    What that means in practice is anyone's guess.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
  4. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Expert Member
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    It has already been done. Federal troops were ordered to attack civilian tax resisters long ago. This first attempt at an "income tax" was eventually repealed and we went without one until woodrow wilson(D) screwed us. 13,000 federalized troops led by a very famous general were mobilized to attack civilians who would not pay the tax.
     
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  5. IBME

    IBME Expert Member
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    WOW-WOW-WOW...........that is "Exactly what I was hoping to find. Much Thank You.
     
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  6. IBME

    IBME Expert Member
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    There was also a very large Union Strike that was smashed violently by military force, I think in PA..
     
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  7. lalakai

    lalakai Well-Known Member
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    .....bottom line, if the financial and political brokers feel threatened, the military will be used. The Patriot Act opened the door and it was made legal to secretly imprison and hold an American if that person was deemed a terrorist. It didn't identify who had to make the accusation, their justification, nor is it required to present evidence to support the act; the person will simply disappear without access to any constitutional rights https://www.aclu.org/news/president-obama-signs-indefinite-detention-bill-law . Anyone who believes the government is for the people..........I have some magic beans for sale.
     
  8. Duncan

    Duncan Expert Member
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    Are you talking about Douglas MacArthur and his troops (under orders from President Herbert Hoover) putting down the Bonus Army march in July 1932 ...

    ... or George Washington marching against the Whiskey Rebellion guys in 1794?
     
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  9. Snyper

    Snyper Well-Known Member
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    They aren't allowed to do law enforcement duties in the US except under special circumstances.

    If fighting was that heavy that would most likely trigger "Martial Law", meaning the military would take over all LEO duties.

    None of that is likely to happen though, outside PAW fantasy stories.
     
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  10. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Expert Member
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    It was kind of a Rorschach test. It has happened several times in the past. Each person might see a different incident.
     
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  11. poltiregist

    poltiregist Expert Member
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    In the U.S. and probably everywhere people are always in danger of being attacked by their own government .Look at what occurred at Ruby Ridge . The government brought in snipers and a small army to attack Weaver and his family . Their reason , an undercover federal boy pretending to be his friend talked him into sawing off a shotgun barrel a inch or two shorter than the federal law stipulated . They attacked a bunch of folks in Waco Texas and burned them out , killing many people . The reason . They didn't agree with their religion . Here in the U.S. it doesn't necessarily have to be the National Guard that makes a military style attack . The feds at one point was so focused on me , they would send me nice post cards every Christmas . I found myself wherever I was at , traveling down the road or going to the mail box ,peering behind bushes looking for those fed boys hiding to watch me . My grandkids got a kick out of me watching airplanes and helicopters that would sometimes circle around the house .
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
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  12. IBME

    IBME Expert Member
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    You mean like ........not likely as in not likely aircraft would be deliberately flown into Twin Towers and murder thousands.......???

    Or do you mean not likely as in, the entire world financial system would ever fail, like 2008.....???

    Or do you mean not likely that a little country like Japan could and would sink much of the United States battle fleet.....???

    I suspect that with a small effort, the members of this forum, could create a long like of events that were assumed to have been "Not Likely".......but it still happened.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
  13. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    And then there is the matter of ordering men to do that which they simply will not do.

    Sheriffs departments are currently refusing to enforce anti-Constitutional laws. Consider also that 90% of combat military are rather conservative in their political leanings. Many would not put their boots on the necks of people who are identical to their very own families.

    And here's the rule of all "civilizations", "Whoever owns the guns, makes the rules."

    Anyone not believing that is still a child in their head. One must allow unreasonable people to perish.
     
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  14. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    Oh by the way, there was no "financial collapse" in 2008. Compare a sneeze to the 1917 flu. That is the real "economic downturn" that is going to hit our interconnected planet. All fiat currencies will fall and likely at the same time. Everybody who is in the know knows this. China and Russia (a gold-mining nation itself) are buying massive amounts of gold.

    If you have savings monetized in a fiat currency, those savings WILL be wiped out -- 100% likelihood.
     
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  15. Snyper

    Snyper Well-Known Member
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    That's not a similar scenario.
    Context matters.

    Another totally different scenario.
    The "whole world" didn't fail. No world war started.

    The one you described has never happened here nor anywhere else that I know of.

     
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