Red Dots And Other Scopes - Emp Related

Discussion in 'Guns, Knives, Tools, Etc.' started by KevinWimerAuthor, Nov 14, 2019.

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  1. KevinWimerAuthor

    KevinWimerAuthor Well-Known Member
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    Hi everyone, I am working on a new book about an EMP and this has me thinking (thinking about this one way before the book but it has brought it back to the forefront of my mind) about red dots and other scopes.

    Will these work if there is an EMP?

    If they will, what will protect them?

    I have been thinking about this a lot of the last few years. I'm looking at my retro rifles, A1's and A2's and I'm thinking man they might not be a bad choice if the lights shut off and the world goes to crap. The M4's have been rifles I have built and used the last few years. The one big reason I like the A1 and A2 rifles, the sights.

    Flip up sights are great and serve a purpose but concern me more over time than the sights of an A1 or A2.

    So with that being said, will red dots and scopes last after an EMP?
     
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  2. Caribou

    Caribou Master Survivalist
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    Those red dots powered by batteries have circuitry that will likely be destroyed by an EMP. Those units driven by daylight or Tritium might fare better. A Faraday cage should help protect any circuitry.
     
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  3. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    Now the next question, would a gun safe protect against EMP? Silly minds want to to know --- me. :oops:
     
  4. Snyper

    Snyper Master Survivalist
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    Theoretically it would if it was properly grounded and the items inside were properly insulated.

    I think people worry too much about "EMP" and the damage it will cause.
    If I were truly worried about it I'd stick to optics that don't require illumination at all.
     
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  5. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I have a thought for you. The next time your microwave oven dies put it in your garage and use that as a faraday cage. They are designed expressively to keep the microwaves IN so it should be good to keep an EMP pulse out. I don't think that a gun safe is designed to do this but imagine that it could be made able to do so.

    Here is good article about EMPs that might be of intrest to you.
     
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  6. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    Optics that are passively illuminated, by either daylight or tritium (like most Trijicon), should be completely safe and I'm not sure how much an EMP would even bother battery operated systems. Most battery operated optics systems are engineered for protection against static electricity already and I've been told that new systems, such as Sig Sauer are supposed to be "hardened off" to meet military specifications. Those that use Bluetooth though give me concern as to how safe from EMP they can actually be. I prefer old school scope personally. Keeping both eyes open doesn't come naturally now.

    TA31ECOS_00.jpg

    Dale
     
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  7. KevinWimerAuthor

    KevinWimerAuthor Well-Known Member
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    Thank you everyone. It has been something on my mind for a while and while writing this new story it hit me again. I want to make this book as real as I possible can. It takes place in a city and things once they kick off in the book will go quickly. I have the first two chapters as character building and the third chapter is where it really gets going. I hope to have some twist and turns in the storyline as I go. No one is safe. Not even the main character that started the book.

    I thought I read an article years ago about our military saying their equipment was safe for an EMP but found out later that they were not. It makes you wonder how much is really safe.
     
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  8. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    My interest is the effect on thermal and NV scopes. I do have the plane / Jane scopes but also plan to acquire a NV scope. The possibility of EMP will not change my mind on the purchase but is something I had not previously considered.
     
  9. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    I have wanted a Trijicon Acog 4x30 for a long time but at $1000 it has remained out of my reach. I won't even think of a used one due to the tritium tubes getting weak or cracks in them over time and rough handling.
     
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  10. Snyper

    Snyper Master Survivalist
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    The Tritium elements can be replaced on some sights.
     
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  11. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    I believe that many guns safes will act as Faraday cages and have a protective effect against EMP events.

    Back when cars and trucks were steel, they made for a make-do Faraday cage. Studies showed that intentional EMP attacks were made ineffective by vehicle bodies. Now having said that, one wonders if such is still true today. If effective enough, the charge building up on a steel vehicle body will get to the point of arcing to ground & releasing the energy. Car bodies are now crap, so I wonder how effective they'd be. I do NOT know the answer. Right now I'm way too tired and lazy to look this up.

    As to grounding:
    https://mdcreekmore.com/should-a-faraday-cage-be-grounded-2/

    From Wiki concerning the grounding of a Faraday cage:
    "A Faraday Shield consists of a fence of conducting wires or strips which are connected to ground. It blocks Electrostatic fields, but not AC or DC magnetic fields. The key is that it must be Grounded to function. They are widely used industry where blocking electric fields is necessary, eg coupling between RF coils, transformers, etc. If it were a complete loop it would create a magnetic short circuit. 180.150.22.107 (talk) 02:58, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
     
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  12. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    I was told that NV units manufactured in the USA should scramble and shut down automatically if enough energy is detected by the unit. The same as when a bright flash of light is detected and the unit kicks off. The individual had no information for me on current model thermal units.

    He also said to make sure and take the batteries out of the unit when not in use and recommended the unit be stored in a metal ammo box. I would recommend a moisture absorber be included.

    No guarantees
    .
    Dale
     
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  13. Caribou

    Caribou Master Survivalist
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    I wouldn't trust a gun safe. The long seams all around the door are a problem. Tiny hole all around the box are not a problem, like a screen, but long seams are a way in for the energy.

    An old microwave might be fine as long as you cut the cord off and if the seal is good. Most old microwaves have bad seals and leak out when you cook. If they leak out they will leak in. You can buy testers that will pick up microwave energy for cheap. Test yours once in a while to protect your family and if the recent test is fin then it should be a fair faraday cage.
     
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  14. KevinWimerAuthor

    KevinWimerAuthor Well-Known Member
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    I'm still working on this book. I scrapped the first two drafts. I had just over 30K words in the first draft and the second I was sitting at 20K words. I'm trying to find balance and get in groove and get some writing done. Draft number three is 4800 words. I'm building the character and I'm thinking chapter two will be when the EMP happens. The guy lives in the city but his parents have a farm. The farm and the town the farm is near will be the main setting for the book. Its not far from the city and things can get a bit dicey.
     
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  15. EarlyMarksman

    EarlyMarksman Expert Member
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    This is the reason I've ditched my red dot and went to irons. Although there are numerous ways a grid down scenario can befall us, such as through a cyberattack, I am not interested in stocking batteries for an optic but rather a good flashlight. That's just me though.
     
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  16. KevinWimerAuthor

    KevinWimerAuthor Well-Known Member
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    I have been working on this book for a couple of days now (my sixth time starting it and each time has been different). While writing this I really starting look at different optics. It has brought me to the Meprolight M21 and Trijicon RX30 series of sights. I'm about to buy one for my Tavor SAR and maybe one or two for my AR-15's.

    I would love an Acog, but right now that is out of budget.

    Side note, the book has a good storyline and feel to it. The main character is a normal guy who has no past or present military or law enforcement experience. He is an avid shooter that was raised on a small farm (not really sure the size yet or if it will matter). I just finished chapter two and I started chapter three. The EMP hit in chapter one and it really played out from there. I'm excited to see where this book heads. It will be a series.

    Sorry that it has been so long since I've been on. I help take care of my dad who has dementia and before this virus hit he was in the hospital for about a week.

    Keep the information coming and ideas too.
     
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  17. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    I love the red dot I have on one rifle. Laser on another. The laser is mounted with a see-thru underneath just in case the laser is inappropriate. As to EMP, it's NOT going take out all electronics. Keep your electronics in a metal safe. Metal safes might provide some EMP protection. They are not unlike a Faraday cage, after all. I'm a big believer in gun safes. I keep out that which I may need in moment's notice but lock-up the general collection (no value really but they work they remind me of history, semi-antiques, actions from around 1900 and before, plus the .22 rifles). Just don't want scum getting their hands on them. The laser and red dot are in another safe. Again, you can put your valuables and not-in-use electronics in gun safes.

    This shooter up in Canada was re-armed / resupplied with guns and ammo when he took out the RCMP and swiped her weaponry. I never want my toys used by some freaking nut-case.
     
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  18. Snyper

    Snyper Master Survivalist
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    Just keep in mind the Tritium will only be half as bright in 10 years, but battery powered lights will maintain the same brightness as long as they work.
     
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  19. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    None of my scopes require batteries, the glass is etched, The only red dot I have is on my shotgun and only because I already had the red dot. That is my close in weapon and is a point and shoot, with open sights. I also store about 30 extra batteries for it, so it will outlast me.
     
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  20. KevinWimerAuthor

    KevinWimerAuthor Well-Known Member
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    What one are you using that is etched? I keep seeing people saying things about etched red dots on various forums but not sure of the sights.
     
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    1. TMT Tactical
      Vortex Diamondback Tactical, 6 x 24 x 50. Some illuminated scopes have etched glass, so if the battery dies, then you can still use the scope. I also have several very cheap illuminated scopes that still work without the battery. There are some red dots powered by solar, so no batteries needed.
       
      TMT Tactical, Apr 23, 2020
  21. KevinWimerAuthor

    KevinWimerAuthor Well-Known Member
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    True. The washout remover uses a batter and it will allow you to use it once the tritium fades. It will make it as bright as the day it was new. Its an advantage or at least I feel it is for the Meprolight M21. Without the washout remover it can be used in the daylight once the tritium no longer works.
     
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