Starting To Reload -- Need Advice.

Discussion in 'Guns, Knives, Tools, Etc.' started by TMT Tactical, Feb 2, 2019.

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  1. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    I have decided to move forward with my reloading plans. Just purchased a 300 Win Mag and a 6.5 Creedmoor. I am looking at the Lyman 8-station turret press. I have not reloaded in 30 + years and that was a single stage press. I had just the bare minimum of knowledge keep me safe but that was about all. I am a bit anal, so I am looking for precision. Best Reloading manuals? Specialty tools (primer pocket cleaner, case neck trimmers, etc.) I am requesting any suggestion and opinions of what I should do for top quality reloading. I have not purchased anything yet, so I have no bias on brands. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
     
  2. Bishop

    Bishop Master Survivalist
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    I would always go with what the min load for the grain bullet you are shooting I have alwsal found the minimum load has always been the most accurate and look at some of the new powders they will help with barrel burn out in the big guns
     
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  3. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Bishop, I am glad you said that. I watch a bunch of reloading videos and have notice lower velocity loads, seem to be more accurate but the reloader's are always trying to get more fps. Is 100 fps that much better? Worth losing some accuracy?
     
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  4. Oldguy

    Oldguy Expert Member
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    Rule number whatever "DO NOT TAKE SHORTCUTS"

    Prep your cases well, cases you have not reloaded before need primer pocket uniforming, flashhole deburring. those you have reloaded before need full length resizing, length trimming, inside neck cleaning, in and out neck deburring and a damn good clean. I say full length sizing not for accuracy but for reliability to ensure any round you chamber can be unchambered without problems, at a range a stuck round is just a pain but in deadly encounter it can mean your life.
    Seat your projectiles deep and well clear of the lands, see above.

    Well measured and lightly compressed loads are usually most consistant and clean internal casenecks grip projectiles consistently

    there you are a few little nuggets to go by:)
     
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  5. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    @Oldguy

    Thank you for the tips. I am anal when it comes to my safety. I already have a wet tumbler and plan to make sure the cases are good and clean. It is a two drum tumbler. Wife has one drum for her jewelry stuff and I have the other drum for my stuff (brass). I plan to get an electronic scale with calibration weights, Like President Regan, trust but verify. Here are some of the items on my "To Buy List". The list is still growing. What is the best / most comprehensive reloading manual?

    A) K&M professional Flash Hole Uniformer
    B) WAOAW Digital Scale
    C) Lee primer Pocket Cleaner
    D) Lee Deluxe Perfect Powder Measure
     
  6. Oldguy

    Oldguy Expert Member
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    A Lee primer pocket "Uniformer" is needed as many cases have shallow primer pockets and regular primers are too high to fit flush. Proud primers can be very troublesome:mad: only need to do it once per case though
    An old bore brush in a cordless drill is great at inside neck cleaning
    And I always trim cases .1mm short again for reliability

    All my rounds feed and chamber well and can be unchambered unfired without issue.
    I get approx. 10 reloads per case, in my .308W I get 2700fps += 5fps with 49gn of ADI2209 powder pushing a Lapua 185gn FMJBT projectile, it is a compressed load and a rather hot load but gives me one hole groups out to 300m and less than 2in groups at 500m, my usual competition distance.
    I have recently binned all my used cases and have started collecting new once fired brass but not in a hurry as I have ceased competing.
     
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  7. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Wow, 10 reloads per case does cut down on the cost. Yes I am El Cheapo and still want accuracy too. Now I can only hope for that kind of shooting (skill and accuracy) from my Creedmoor or the 300 Win Mag. I will focus on the 6.5 first, as it is the cheapest to load of the two. Now I will have to wait until much later to get a chronograph. Basic first and then velocity work up, if it is needed. What issue with the case mandates it be discarded? Are the primer pockets blown out or what is the issue? Granted I am over joyed at the thought of getting 10 reloads but I am curious what I should expect.
     
  8. Bishop

    Bishop Master Survivalist
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    No if you can't hit it it doesn't matter how slow or fast it goes
     
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  9. Oldguy

    Oldguy Expert Member
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    Cases stretch with each firing, eventually there is an internal ring/thin spot about half way up the case, at that stage you are looking at case separation and all the dramas that that involves none of them good.
    I detected the first ring at the eight reload, two more at the ninth reload and six at the tenth reload, discarded all seven hundred cases then and rebarrelled the rifle at the same time. Currently working up a new load for the new barrel with new brass.

    The 6.5Creedmore may not give you as many reloads as it is an under-bored case.
     
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  10. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Great advice and replies, please keep them coming. Now what is an "Under-bored case". Even if I get just 5 reloads that will drop my case cost to under $0.16 per shot for brass. Does anybody have an opinion of Sellier & Bellot brass. I plan to purchase 100 rounds of the factory ammo and then reload the brass. This would a fairly cheap way to get started reloading. I am also looking at the Hornady 140 grn. Match bullets for my starting load. What reloading manual(s) should I get?
     
  11. watcherchris

    watcherchris Master Survivalist
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    TMT tactial. First off no matter who's maker is the brass from ...you need to know if it is Berdan Primed or single hole primed. Most USA companies make brass with the single hole primer pocket. The Berdan or two hole primer pocket requires a different type of de priming tool than is found on most USA Made rigs.

    Also most accuracy books I've read instruct one to seat the bullets out further in the case ..not deeper....so as to not have as far to jump when fired from the case to the rifling land engagement. One of the limits here is the magazine well ....you can only seat them out so far and still fit them in the magazine well....unless you choose to load them singly ...one at a time into the breech.

    6mm and 6.5 mm seem to be calibers which are very popular for certain accuracy ..and also have a wide bullet selection.

    I enjoyed reloading for .243 Winchester which is a 6mm calibration.....nice bullet selection for this caliber which is a necked down .308.

    Nothing wrong with being tight with your monies..particularly if one has more important obligations or young uns tugging at ones britches so to speak. Get the best bang for your buck spent. Nothing wrong with that ..and ask questions.

    Your call..but if you are prepping ...stock up on bullets, powder, primers,...and tools....store them carefully clean and dry.

    An olde cabinet stores much of my precision gear...calipers, stones, dies, etc etc...in my garage.

    Other stuff is in five gallon buckets with lids on them.

    Bought another three boxes of 500 count .22 long rifle in the last couple of weeks and just put it away.

    Will do the same over the next few weeks.


    Thanks,
    Watcherchris

    Not an Ishmaelite
     
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  12. Oldguy

    Oldguy Expert Member
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    Now what is an "Under-bored case".
    That is cade capacity verse bore, in .30 cal the .308W case gives the best bang, a larger case and there is lots more powder for little gain and smaller capacity and there is too little powder capacity to really use the .30 cal it is just an efficiency thing not too important.

    Also most accuracy books I've read instruct one to seat the bullets out further in the case ..not deeper....so as to not have as far to jump when fired from the case to the rifling land engagement.

    Yes if one is a target shooter you are correct but if one is into survival and this is a prepper/survival forum reliability is a bit more important than ultimate accuracy. Early on in my shooting life I got sick of failures. Afew things I do are not for pure accuracy but reliability, seating primers properly matters as a proud primer can detonate on chambering, can puncture on firing sending hot gas and molten primer metal back towards shooter and sometimes jamming the firing pin, a case may also jam if just a touch too long at the lands creating much higher pressures as normal and jamming in the chamber so I trim .1mm short
    For the first decade of my shooting life I was the guy with the problems not finishing a match due to a stuck case, premature firing, projectile stuck in barrel etc etc! After learning I never failed because of my rifle, pistol, shotgun or my ammo.

    Keeping the projectile clear of the lands never seemed to make any difference to my accuracy
    What made a difference was cleaning the inside of the casenecks, the projectile contact area, carefully measuring the powder charge and using all the same cases. Early on I noticed two distinct points of impact about an inch apart out at 300m plus ranges, turned out to be the difference between Remington and Winchester cases so I just bought a large batch of Remington cases and that was solved.
    Again I was playing with my freebore distance as up to then I had had the projectiles just touching the lands By seating the projectiles deeper I lightly compressed the powder load and suddenly my groups shrank, it was load compression not the freebore.:)

    It takes lots a effort to learn the little things over the years
     
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  13. Oldguy

    Oldguy Expert Member
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    I am still shooting .22LR stuff I bought in the early 80's
    Kmart was clearing out all there ammo as they were to cease selling any gun stuff
    Got a really really good deal and my old cruiser got a real beating dragging it all home, only got about 11k left and as I shoot less now it will last a few more years:) buying price was 50c per 50rds
     
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  14. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Wow, all you folks are being super and helping me learn a ton. Many thanks. I did learn and agree with Oldguy, not to mix brass. I have already select tools to clean and prep the inside of the brass (neck and primer hole). I have selected tools to clean and debur both the inside and outside of the primer pocket. I know not to get the Berdan primers but to make sure I get the Boxer primer cases and the correct size primers (small rifle or large rifle primers).

    I will be starting out with 100 rounds of Sellier & Bellot 140 grn. SP. I will use these factory loads to test fire, sight in the scope (Vortex Diamondback Tactical 6-24 x 50 MOA reticle). I will then select primers and bullets to test load in the S&B cases.. I do have a small advantage that there are several YT reloader's working up loads on the same make and model rifles I have. So I am hoping they will help narrow the search down a bit. I know no two rifles will be exactly the same but I do hope they will save me to time and money in narrowing the search for the best load for my rifles.

    In one of my past life's I worked as a Millwright and I have many precision tools. I have a 12 inch level that reads in 0.001 inch. I have dial indicators, micrometers, calipers and I do really value my tools. They helped me put food on the table and paid the rent.

    I did have to scratch one item. The Lyman 8 station turret press is now off the list. After watching several review video's, I discovered it severely leaks decapped primers. Since I will be reloading inside the house, I do not want spent primers falling all over the floor. It looks like the Lee 4 station Turret press is going to win out. The Lee appears to be the best bang for the buck. I can deactivate the progressive indexing function and use it as a single stage for rifle (precision) rounds or us the progressive function for less precise hand gun rounds. If you see me heading down the wrong path, please feel free to comment. I have no brand loyalty and nothing is bought yet. I plan to make my purchases late next week, barring any unseen events biting me in the tush.

    I do want accuracy but reliability is the primary must have result. I will surrender a super small group size to make sure the ammo goes bang every time. I do not want to experience any of he issues oldguy posted about. Thanks but not thanks, I will pass on those issues.

    Now does anybody have any recommendations are where to get the best prices on brass, primers and bullets? My location is Arizona, so shipping costs could be an issue based on supplier distance. Please keep the comments and suggestion coming, I can use all the help I can get. Once again, I appreciate the help.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
  15. Oldguy

    Oldguy Expert Member
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    I am in Australia so I cant help in the cost and supply bit but I found Lapua projectiles were cheaper and more consistant than most othere including Sierra. As I am a precision type of shooter I only ever use FMJBT projectiles in .308w when hunting bigger stuff and Sierrs JSP in .223R and always take head shots when actually hunting so projectile construction is irrevelent to me or my prey.

    For a long time I used a friends home made .223 63gn JSP projectiles made from used .22LR cases, they did not look the best but they worked a treat and only a few cents each, sadly cancer put a stop to there production.

    Just get small quantaties until you settle on a load then when you are sure you have the load right make a bulk buy you can make big savings when buying in bulk, over here we can get 25% off if we spend a lot probably similar there, oh and waving cash works to if you are there in person:D

    PS Do your research well so when you make contact with a supplier you don't sound like a novice/wanker.
     
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  16. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    I really like the Novice Wanker tip. LOL. I do plan to do a lot of research and then make my first buys in small quantities to verify the work up. I like to think I am a precision shooter (I have never competed) as I have only needed an extra shot once and that was to end the critter's suffering. It was a kill shot but not an instant kill. I only varmint hunt (for now) as I don't need the meat. Now it is interesting that you prefer head shots and others swear by lung shots. I now prefer head shots too, after I gut shot that one ground hog. If I am off target, the critter in not wounded and if I have done my job, it is an instant kill.

    I am looking for both top accuracy but also energy dump potential. FMJ does a great job during flight but can over penetrate the critter. Sometimes hollow point work and some times they don't. Soft points do tend to be more reliable in the expansion department. I am not telling you anything you don't already know but I do tend to let my typing drift with my mind. With a head shot it does not matter but I like to have my options open with regard to ammo. A snap shot at an approaching predator and I would like to feel the bullet is going to drop the critter.

    Sorry you lost your reloading friend, good deals and good friends can be hard to find. I will check into the Lapua projectiles. I did spot some Speer 140 grn bullets with a 580 (? memory) ballistic coefficient and was reasonably priced. I don't seem to fine many YT video of reloader's using the Speer brand, any word of wisdom to share?Once I do find a cartridge and powder that works in my rifles, I will purchase in bulk. Two reasons to buy in bulk, One price for us El Cheapo's and two, to stock pile before the liberals get control again. Currently I do not have to register when I buy ammo or ammo components but that will change on a federal level when (not If) the liberals gain control of congress and the Presidency. California is already doing that, so it is only a matter to time until it happens on a federal level. Just one more reason to reload.
     
  17. Oldguy

    Oldguy Expert Member
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    I use the softpoints in .223R as the .223 has little energy available but in the .308W with plenty of energy available I like the skull cracking ability. In my early hunting days had a hollowpoint blow up on a camel skull, dropped it dead first but a few minutes later the sucker resurrected itself and stood up, a mates .338Lapua in the heart dropped it again. After examination the hollowpoint had only penetrated two inches before disintergrating on skull bone
    I just like my bullets to get to where I aimed them but each to there own, no bears or other large dangerous game here as a rule
    We got some very large feral pigs, buffalo and crocs here though
     
  18. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Since I do own a 223 wylde, I am very interested in your experiences with the soft point ammo and the cost of reloading this caliber. Right now I am using wolf 62 grn. hollow points, but I do want to develop some accurate loads. I have a 24 in barrels for a AR 15 lower that I have and I want to setup this configuration as my small varmint rifle. I also have a 7.62 x 39 that I want to be able to reload too. The 7.62 will be a short to mid range rifle (100 to 250 yards). The 6.5 Creedmoor is going to be my long distance rifle. In my research (ballistic Gel testing) I have discovered that many of the hollow points do not expand or completely disintegrate shortly after impact. I do admit I am completely surprised with the camel getting back up. That would have freaked me out. I do think I want to focus on bullets that are accurate and hold together during expansion. Currently I am seeing good reports on the Speer Gold Dot bullets but I want to compare them to some of the Hornady 140 grn. bullets. Pennies per round difference do add up when you start buy buying a few thousand at a time. The bullets first and foremost must go where I aim them. Then they must do the job with the first shot. Except for the 300 Win mag, none of my rounds are big bore heavy hitters.

    I would classify the feral pigs, buffalo and especially the croc's as dangerous predators. We have big cats, many species of bears and even a few wolves to contend with, which is why I do want accuracy and terminal expansion. I do plan to make one shot kills but I also want a contingency plan (ammo) for any surprise's from undetected predators. I ave never experienced a predator hunting me, but I have read of this happening. I would like my ammo to be able to deal with a sudden / snap shot situation. Center mass is much easier to hit when rushed.
     
  19. Oldguy

    Oldguy Expert Member
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    I cant really say how good the softpoints are as I always head shoot and they all work just fine.
    If a lot of ammo is used on a regular basis making ones own projectiles would be worth it

    Fully mature bull camels have hard heads but a FMJBT will drop them dead at most any range, longest confirmed kill on a camel was 1128m and the sucker never knew what hit him, he was sel
     
  20. Oldguy

    Oldguy Expert Member
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    I have little experience with the AR platform but all rifles are centred around the barrel.
    A heavy barrel improves accuracy and a longer barrel improves velocity potential and a stainless barrel improves durability.
    that's about it,

    My hunting rifles are 26in heavy barrels on Howa actions for most and my competition rifle in .308W is a 30in extra heavy stainless barrel on a howa action and an homemade aluminium stock, a bit ugly but very good, on a sunny day with the sun behind me I can actually see the shiny projectile and the vortex surrounding it arc its way down range, fascinating watching the vortex drift.

    Maybe just go a Remington bolt action for accuracy.
    Your money your choice:)
     
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  21. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    The AR platforms are my force multiplier selection, not really a hunting weapon except for varmints. The 24 inch barrel is a heavy SS barrel and I am configuring it to be California legal (turned off the adjustable gas port to turn it into a side charging bold action). This rifle is for when I go to visit my son, who lives in San Diego. We do not hunt, just range shoot. I can always open back up the port when I get back home.

    I cannot imagine a 30 inch extra heavy barrel. Your 308 must weigh about 30 pounds. Great for a bench rest shoot but I wold hate to have to lug that around. Now I have a question, why 30 inches? Not challenging the selection just curious. From what I am reading all the powder would have been burned and max velocity reached in a shorter barrel. Am I wrong in this fact?

    Next question and again not challenging but what is the purpose of shooting camels? Are they good to eat? I don't have any special attachment to camels or feel they should be some protected species but I am curious as to why hunt them? Besides them being butt ugly, is there a special challenge to hunting them?
     
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