Survival Forums Are To Old And To Canned, And To Packaged, And To Recycled, And Bs

It is kind'a like when you live with someone or work with someone, after a long time, eventually you can finish any sentence they start. At some point it is the same old stuff, same old story, same old bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla.

This whole Prepping and Survival and "Prepping for Survival", the entire whole thing needs "FRESH". It needs a lot of "FRESH". I am sick of the same old discussions, and the same old responses. You don't need to read more then the thread title, to be 98.3 % sure exactly what the original post is about. You also know with 99.37% certainty what each of the active regular members response will be to the original post.

Part of it is we are lazy.
Part of it is we don't want to get to close to the truth. Just kind'a keep it vague, sort'a hint around the edges. Kind'a got'ta save some face.
Part of it is the generally accepted response is a safe response. So just stick to the safe "CANNED" response, and no one will think you are "different".
Part of it is members feel they are obligated to respond, so just post anything from the menu of preapproved acceptable responses, then duty done leave.
Part of it is everyone wants to look "Smart" on the prepping and survival subjects.

We can do better. I refuse to believe we have totally fleshed out 100 % of the relevant subject information.

 

One idea, is we have our elusive owner/administrator set up a separate section to this forum. The Gawkers and Guests and "Robots" are twenty to one for each signed-in member. I see it as a place you can say the things on subjects, dig-in deeper on subjects, propose subjects you might feel reluctant to explore in the presence of just now 123 Guests and 6 sign-in Members, and 18 Robots.

I solicit any and all ideas on ways to get out of this canned responses to canned original posts. Lets break into some new thinking, some new exploration, about prepping and survival.

 

There is an advanced subforum already set up here. Why not you start there, discussions are sure to follow.

There has been quite a bit of forward thinking on this forum, more than most. I think you know that already, lol.


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True..........but that is not getting the job done. I think we can do better. We have the quality of people do better, we just need to get out of this rut we are stuck in.

 

Yes.........and the discussions will produce the same-same-same-same-same-same.

We need to dig deeper, explore where it has not yet been fully explored.

 

Examples, please?

I'm not sure which direction you'd like to see...but I'd like to say this (just in case, lol):

You know what I am talking about in the following quotes which I have reposted from another thread to here, for truth...

 

I am NOT talking about anarchy.........I am talking about LEARNING NEW, discovering new, new questions and new answers, not constantly repeating the same answers, to the same questions.

It is like that movie "Groundhog Day" where it never changes. The same questions and the same answers. The only real change is the order of the responses.

 

Because there are only a few active posters here at the moment, it probably would not hurt if OP questions (and your own input) were fashioned in such a way to draw out more creativity in the direction you want to see... I think if there were more of our kind here you would probably see a greater variety of answers.

Also, I noticed that folks sometimes don't "get" what you're trying to say. If you find that to be the case, maybe rephrase the question or provide examples, etc.

It is what the old-time journalists did when conducting interviews. They knew how to draw out the content they wanted. They were really good at this, and it seems to be a lost art anymore because it is not easy!


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Good morning IBME,

"Part of it" is that these new-fangled telegraph keys are far from the best medium for serious discussion. Everyone in the Western Union office can read what material that is often misunderstood, exploited for wrongful gain and et cetra.

Ref: "any and all ideas"
Ref: "might feel reluctant to explore..."

Without a "members only" section, reluctance to explore will continue. Inherent to all this is some $$$ for the website. I've belonged to "in-person" orgs developing these topics and also "cyber" clubs with "in-person" chapters.

My main club faded from the scene because of loss of life and widow relocates, the infirmities of life, the job relocations, etc. If something is not institutionalized, it becomes a grain of sand in William F. Buckley's "sands of time" hour glass.

I am guessing that funding for this excellent MSF.com is inadequate for our requirements. I do not purchase food products or books - but I do spend $. We need to think of a "co-operative" so that purchasing events via the web yields a small dividend to website. Area chapters are required or anticipate the competition dissolving those relying on typing only. Organizing a clb demands leadership and this field is lost in our present society. It also takes work.

Here at MSF.com, we are discussing individual aspects of national matters such as the National Incident Management System and the related National Response Framework. Yes: We're discussing the national emergency agencies stuff ! Beside reluctance, restrictions on web use minimize presenting thoughts to improve subject-matter categories eg emergency evacuations, advance-level first aid, safe drinking water, etc.

My since lost prep club, beside maxing out web use, also had a snail-mail program involving sending photocopies of pertinent material - especially articles - to our members.

In this area of the fruited plain, there are weekend type "campouts" (there's a cost) where people meet their correspondents and polish matters.

Is it realistic for MSF.com to obtain NGO status (not difficult to easy to establish) and have a couple of area members attend seminars ?

In re all my above early AM rambling, has any of this ever been done before ?

...

Don Marquis' definition of an optimist: "A man who has never had much experience".

"Sometimes paranoia's just having all the facts." William S. Burroughs.

...

Time for another espresso.

 

LOL LOL LOL....

LOL LOL...I have not seen this movie and or try to avoid it.


But quoting a movie as examples of real life...sounds like leadership material to me.

I like being "Herded" by a movie and television education...Just like I prefer to be "Herded" by race...by sex...by sexual orientation...and calling this leadership...trying to imply/seduce me into voting their type of drama.

Know much about Baruch Spinoza???? Imanuel Kant....David Hume??? John....Dee???


My non Ishmaelite .02,

Watcherchris

 

Maybe the horse has been whipped to death. I've seen and read and whipped a lot of posts in my time as well and yes many topics get blaze' over time.

Some people probably do not post for fear of being or feeling attacked by others who seem to feel or act like they have all of the answers too.

Sure there is always more to learn and/or more to study like topics that one does not find of interest such as radios in my case. At some point I will struggle through the drudgery that I find in that subject and learn more and maybe even take my radio test.

 

This is so true! Even if a horse has been whipped to death, there are still many who can bring their own experiences to the table, and no two are exactly alike! But unfortunately, motivation to contribute to the thread is stifled by those who feel a need to criticize or mock others. (Joke is on the trolls, really, because their posts are usually overlooked by those who tire of the drama.)


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Sounds like "Herding " to me....also sounds like a politician...with the blame game.

Sounds like an Ishmaelite.

Ever ask yourself ...what law these people are breaking that they don't want to be herded or follow the Herd...nor someone trying to steer them..herd them.

I never watch or listen to Dr. Phil.


The very nature of life among humans ..is that one often has to venture through lots of books...articles...speeches ..to find and or locate something worthwhile and or useful to us in our daily lives.

Same thing with a usable invention...

It often takes many many failed attempts at invention before a really useful workable product comes out.



Ideas and usable concepts do not just show up because we are good people..
Life takes work..and often RISK....inconvenience.


Thinking People do not want to be Herded to reduce someone else's risk.

Emoting people tend to be the opposite....they want someone else to reduce their risk...gratis.


But ...a lot of people would not know this if they had mostly a television and or movie education....in emotions.




My non Ishmaelite .02,
Watcherchris

 

I have zero grasp of this herding thing you speak of. You seem to have some phobia, which may or may not be justified.

Just to make a final effort to communicate my quest, I simple feel there are more areas with-in the subject area of Prepping and/or Survival that could be explored.

See......I have spent most of the last fifty years living and working in "Remote" Alaska wilderness. Places that are only accessible by bush plane, no road or trail for a few hundred miles. I know things because of this, but I am not aware of my knowing these things, because of my immersion in that environment.

Let me give an example. While guiding hunters, there is sometimes conflict because I know things they don't. I remember a conflict when we observed a quality animal the hunter wanted. But it was about two miles away, by line of sight and a four mile hike the way we needed to hike to get in position.

What the hunter could see between where we were and needed to be was a grassy field. What I could see was a marsh of knee deep water. He was very upset that I insisted we go around what he viewed as a beautiful field of grass.

See the point I am attempting to make is, I could tell from experience, just looking at the color and texture of the vegetation, and how the vegetation moved in the breeze, what was hidden, the swamp.

But, because I had been immersed for many decades in that environment, I did not know that I knew that, in the same way a fish does not know water, or the fish is not aware of the water.

What I feel is needed in the prepping and survival area is kind'a like that. See it took the hunters vision, and pissed-off'ness, for me to see consciously, and be consciously aware of what I knew, at a different level of knowingness.

I believe there so so much more to learn in this area of prepping and survival, but we will have to work to find it. We need to get past the easy questions, and the prepackaged menu of acceptable answers, or replies. We need to get past the entertainment of survival and prepping, and for the most part that is what Prepping for Survival forums are is entertainment.

 

Very well explained, and something I can relate to. And, certainly not feeling “herded” or anything like that.

IBME, I am also looking forward to more posts with solid meat in them in the “advanced survival” sub forum...

You are the most experienced cache man I know... An interesting thread that I hope to see would be how to cache in a city like Anchorage, or even in a small town. I think TMT Tactical had some novel ideas about that (but I forgot what they are)!

Meanwhile, I am also enjoying and learning from all of the forums here, which has room enough for folks who are in other stages and phases of disaster prepping and survival.


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Note that your putting the burden on the question or the Original Post. Here is my example: I have many "Top Secret" tricks for caching, that I have never disclosed on any forum. The reason I have them is because I operate so many caches. And that is how problems come up, and solutions must be found.

The dilemma for me is I know them because I use them. But people don't really care about caching, so they never ask serious questions. And without the question I have zero motivation of posting this information. Because the whole caching thing is just a curiosity for most people. And NOT a very strong curiosity at that.

Here is one: I invented what I call kickboards for rapid entry, of a secure firearms cache, with zero tools. I did this because I wanted to enter/access one of my firearms, but discovered that I could not do so, without returning to my cabin for pry bars, "Cats'paw" and claw-hammer. I needed to figure a way in the future to build firearms caches that were secure, and inaccessible to anyone or any animal, but that I could instantly access the firearm in seconds. So I invented the kickboard entry system.

Now I currently estimate that I will be alive roughly another 18 to 24 months, so much of this knowledge go away at that point. There is just so much we need to explore. But we are stuck with Prepping and Survival forums being largely "Entertainment".

One thing I learned as a so called "Bush Pilot" is how wonderful it is to drive an airplane looking down on majestic Alaska.....Till, the engine stops. I think that is how it will be for many when the SHTF.

 

Well, dang! Please, please start a thread on the kickboard entry. There may more interested folks than you realize.

Signed,
Yours Truly


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I just now saw something in your edited post that prompted me to send you a PM...please check.


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I believe that when I posted the news about the ferret / grizzly-bear hybrid monsters wiping out entire species up Idaho way that I was adding something new. Few knew that the 6mmH&H (a necked-down .375 Holland & Holland) was the best cartridge to take-out these frizzly-bears.

Hey, credit where credit's due!

 

The one thing that I have learned here and on other boards is that survival is an ART and not a SCIENCE. What I mean by that is that we each are very different people and all live in possibly very different environments with totally different skill sets. While a house painter covers a structure with paint an artist takes the paint and the paint is the point not what it is on. There are so many different skills and nobody can master them all.

What is offered here is an artists palate. There are a lot of colors that you can then take and mix to make your own picture. Keith has his very special way that is a PROVEN way to survive in a somewhat primitive world. The tools and weapons that he uses and trusts have been perfected and proven by time to work.

A lot of people have been in the various military and from those and that training they also have a way to survive in a violent world that is time proven. They feel most secure with the modern tools of the military and the knowledge that they have gained from their training and experiences.

Lone Wolf is a very solitary person that is most comfortable with a large buffer between him and most people while I am a more group-oriented sort of person. He and I are big people and that gives us a certain perspective that a smaller person doesn't have. we have people here from places where guns and weapons are as much a part of life and growing up as balls and coloring books are to others and then there are people that have no real opportunity to have guns past a most basic and controlled sort. We have people that live in the cold lands even up to near the Arctic and then we have desert dwellers.

My point is that despite a multitude of differences cultural, environmental, intellectual and of individual nature we share something. We all see a future where we will need to be able to deal with large and forced change in how we live. In our different ways, we each try to figure out what is best for the US where we live and with our personal skills and abilities. There is no single RIGHT way to do it!!

While we may not want to be herded Chris; we also have to be careful not to be so determined to go OUR way that we blindly go the wrong way just because most are going the other way. If you see a bunch of people of cattle running in one direction sometimes you need to look and see what they are running FROM and not run towards it just because you don't want to be in a herd. If you see me running with a bunch of folks though please do be contrary and run the other way past me and behind me. I'm old and you may be my only hope to outrun that big ass bear that is chasing us. We run away so please you run to it!! (That is a joke by the way.)

I will be blunt here. There are a lot of us here that are not going to survive and we know it. We all have a terminal disease and it is going to get us all eventually. For some of us, that time is not so far off in the future. some of us are here more to try and share a lifetime of learning that old age is rapidly making survival a joke. I offer what I can because I am not a loner. I always figured that at the very least I would be worthwhile if for no other thing than my knowledge. As it turns out I am a dead man walking.

Come here, take and learn. There is so much information here that if we could put it all into a book it would be of priceless value to a survivor. We offer you a palate of paints but you have to paint YOUR picture. If you just plan to survive you are already dead. Plan to survive so that you can LIVE, laugh, love and leave the world a better place when you are gone...

 

IMBE,

I understood this when I posted..no problem.

I will explain.....


Not being herded is freedom and Liberty. If you watch the biggest herders and promotion of Herding techniques it is government..and they have access to a multitude of methods of Herding...without most people catching onto what is happening.


Americans like their freedom and liberty...but often do not know from whence it comes....it's historical origins. They tend to so take this for granted.

When you come into a forum like this ..berating and or pushing a position as you seem want to do it comes across as Herding people....like a politician.

I am not against learning....I am against herding....lack of freedom and liberty..even to not go with the herd...or go my own way.

The irony to me is that you want ideas...thinking....but don't bring any to the table...only your grievances...which come across as attempt to steer the herd...in the direction you desire...or think things should go.

Thinking people do not want to be so herded. They like their liberties and freedoms....even to say no and or even to go their own way.


Now with that in mind...I will offer something here for caching....something which took me some time to work out and for which ironically the answer was right in front of me the whole time and I did not originaly so recognize..for it's potential.


This stuff...

https://www.amazon.com/Dow-Corning-...+grease&qid=1562159210&s=gateway&sr=8-2-fkmr0


This is a silicone based O ring grease..I have used it many times at work....on said O rings...high pressure fluid systems.

One day the light bulb came on and I realized that silicone was a moisture repellant...moisture barrier.

So stupid that I did not realize this long before. I could kick myself for not sooner seeing it.


What was happening here was that I was looking for a solution to the rusting...corrosion on my black powder guns.

For we know how corrosive black powder and or charcoal can be.

I was using Vaseline...3 in one oil....axle grease..and still I would get rust...corrosion...on these firearms.


I cleaned them again...dried them and put on a light coat of this O ring grease with the silicone base..and I no longer get the type of rust and or corrosion as did I previous to using this stuff.

Note this is not an excuse to not check on or do maintenance of your tools ..only that this O ring grease is highly repellant of moisture and thus serves as a moisture barrier..to prevent rust and corrosion.

The stuff is a bit pricey ..but it goes along way when applied in a thin coat...you do not need much.
I also use it on my Stainless Steel guns...as well...a thin coat..just like my blued steel tools.

I have put back several tubes from this source. A tube lasts me for years and years...and it is quite humid here on the coastline of Virginia.

Free ....no cover charge....you members determine if it is applicable to your conditions.....I'll not herd you to so do.

Hope this helps with your caching plans.


Watcherchris

Not an Ishmaelite

 

Here is another freebee for caching...for which I experimented...and learned...the hard way..

This also reflected on the need for a moisture barrier on my guns...


Years ago I experimented with burying a cache of rifles and ammunition...in a thick PVC tubes..buried in the ground for a year.

In these two tubes was a 1903 Springfield bolt action rifle in caliber 30.06 and ammunition...and also another tube contained a Marlin Glennfield .22 caliber model 60 semi auto rifle...and ammunition.

Both rifles were disassembled to fit in the tubes and coated with axle grease on the metal parts.

About a year later I dug them up for inspection. The ammo was fine in sealed mason Jars...but...


The 1903 Springfield was fine too....the difference was in the Marlin Glennfield Model 60. It had rust on the outside of the rifle....

What I came to realize is that the difference was in the heat treatment between the 30.06 and the 22 Long Rifle.

A .22 long rifle does not need the heat treatment on the barrels as does a more powerful 30.06...meaning the molecules are not as densely packed or tight in the Marlin...more prone to rust than the 30.06....softer metal.

The knowledge of these difference in metallurgy I deemed important to know...as there it was staring me in the face...

Translated......this means a .22 Long rifle with less heat treatment...would be more easily prone to rust than a more powerful rifle like a 30.06....with better heat treatment.


This difference in metallurgy is now made up with the application of a thin coat of that silicone based O ring grease.
I am not even sure the average owner is aware of this difference in metallurgy between two such firearms.

But once again....free...no cover charge.


My non Ishmaelite .02,

Watcherchris

 

What I do is put a Schrader valve in on end cap and after everything is sealed I draw a vacuum and then fill it with nitrogen to a balanced pressure. Most any AC guy will do this for you. Without oxygen, you don't have rust. By having a slight positive pressure of nitrogen it will not leak and allow air in.

Chris, I see people as basically in three categories. You have wolves, sheep, and sheepdogs. Wolves are totally predatory. Sheep that are almost totally prey. The Sheepdogs herd the sheep because without that they are lost and wander all over the place. The thing is that the wolves and the sheepdogs both eat the sheep. The difference is in that the wolves prefer chaos and like chasing their prey while the sheepdogs prefer order and don't want to have to chase down their next meal. Without herding, the sheep would probably starve to death or fall off a cliff.

 

TexDanm and others...

My friend out in Tennessee does this ..pulls a slight vacuum on 5 gallon buckets and seals the lids with a sealant in addition to the gasket in them for certain items. I don't believe he uses nitrogen but mostly a vacuum ..depending on the items being stored.

Seems to me that is how some areas or equipment on ships is stored....or put into suspension...dry nitrogen purge.

Until I tried this experiment..I was unaware of the difference in the metal composition of lower power .22 riles and high powered rifles. No reason to think about it..to me rifles were rifles. Nonetheless this was a type of awakening in that arena for me...and I consider this important information to know...softer metals in .22 long rifles versus high powered gear. I came away with knowledge for which otherwise I would not have become aware. And that to me...was worth the damage to the .22 long rifle Marlin Glenfield model 60.

I have one of those Food Saver machines for sealing items in a plastic bag. It also has the attachment for sealing mason Jars via a vacuum lid attachment. This is a handy tool to have for prepping...not just food..but documents etc etc ...et al.

I also have a vacuum pump which is an olde compressor salvaged from an olde refrigerator. I just made adapters to the vacuum side...and have my refrigeration tools and or vacuum gauge on it. Have R 12 and R 134 set ups if needed.

Thanks for the input here.


Watcherchris
Not an Ishmaelite.

 

IBME, I get what you are saying. Its a version of the Abilene paradox where important questions aren’t asked and wrong conclusions are made. Critical thinking requires challenging assumptions. I think this site is better than most on us being free to challenge assumptions. But we all way to often end up on the bus to Abilene in our discussions. As you say, you can predict how a thread will turn out by the title.

Critical thinking requires challenging assumptions. Challenging assumptions requires an open mind and a willingness to listen to what others opinion or experience. Again, I appreciate this forum in particular for having a pretty open group of people.

By the way, I am an infant in caches compared to your experience. My forefathers cached in Appalachia and this is how they survived the civil war when both the union and confederate soldiers raided the area for supplies. The little I know was taught to me by my grandfather who learned from what his father did to keep my kinfolk alive during the war. Most of this was how to hide things effectively verses long term cache, so my deficits are in long term storage particularly in the harsher Alaskan climate. I guess this should be in another thread.

 

The things you learn here .... I had to go look up the Abilene Paradox. Turns out I was familiar with the concept just nor what it was called

 

Exactly! Growth of ideas and understanding is enhanced by open debate by people willing to learn. This site is better than most for allowing this. On other forums you can get hounded relentlessly if you speak counter to their “gospel.”

 

I have been BANNED from other forums, for refusing to drink the kool-aid. The "Survival Boards" had an a-hole named Mike K. who was a moderator. He would put me on temporary banned for a month if I challenged anything he posted. Would send me a P.M. saying it against forum rules to question a moderator.

 

Maybe he thought he was the supreme leader of North Korea?

 

I explored a bunch of places before I settled here. Too many of the boards that I checked out seemed to be totally fixated on a road warrior type of gun-toting adventure idea of survival than a more realistic view of the many possibilities. It is as if all their ideas were formed by movies. A little of that and the zombie survival can make for a little interesting discussion but it isn't much use in a realistic future apocalypse.

Several when the survival boards were sort of a new thing were actually scary as hell. I don't doubt that there will be some crazy people after the fall but I scanned a few boards that were out there and were proposing an apocalypse as an opportunity to go on a bigoted killing spree. I have less than no use for skinheads, Kluckers, Gay bashers, Black Panthers, Religious fanatics or anyone that thinks that other people don't have a right to live if they don't follow or fit into one specific bigoted view.

With very few exceptions I am glad that most of that sort of thing has at the very least gone back underground. Even the ones that are obviously slanted to racial views have toned it down on their public boards. Even Stormfront is a little less militaristic than they were at one time.

 

You're correct.
As soon as I read the title I knew with 99.9% certainty who started the thread.
Patterns never change.

 

I have only joined 2 prepper sites ever. Most here knew me on the other site as well. I'm not much of a "joiner" after the rest of my life and I am cautious with what I post. Not that I care about what I say being rejected but I care about making public information that my country says is still "classified".
I also learned, some of my life's experiences should be kept to myself, as people reject what they can't comprehend. I don't mean that as an insult to anyone, but myself and some others here have experiences in violence, deprivation and real survival that the majority won't ever know.

Sourdough, I don't think much in the world is new, with the exception of technology. How do we discuss new and innovative when survival itself, demands us to revert and rely on our most primitive natures.

Maybe someone can start a thread of what members want to discuss in advanced topics, and everyone can add at least one topic? Just a suggestion. Keep it in the members only section?

Dale

 

This is one of the reasons I try to avoid political discussions. From what I have gathered in 12-14 years' worth of posting at various fora, far too often discussions seem to be hijacked (or hijack themselves) to an argument of left-vs right politics (Understand I'm only talking the US here).

Firearms and survivalist fora seem to be very extensively populated (in the US) by the right, although one of the most politically-biased forum I'd been to was (hold on to your hat) the Liberal Gun Club.

How many good ideas and discussions are lost because of completely irrelevant perceptions of a poster's political views?

 

If some political groups succeed, then we who make preparations could be targeted as enemies of the state.

I believe that our way of life being attacked, is a valid topic. Witness those from other countries who have used this site as a place to report the rape of Liberty where they live. Disarming innocent people leads to holocausts. We must prepare for wars against our freedom, else we should just give up now and submit to fate. The registration then confiscation of firearms means that we who would put back food, should just stop doing so. "If you can't protect it, you don't own it," Human Nature 101. Post SHTF, hordes of the unprepared WILL attack those who have prepared. No freedom, no life.

 

The only folks in power who look at groups as "enemies of the state" are those who look at the free press and people like Muslim-Americans as "enemies", and none of them look at gun-owners that way -- at least, not yet.

Sure, you have a bunch of nuts like Beto O'Rourke that want to take my AR and other whackos like AOC that quack about banning guns, but they're not quite as powerful as that person in the White House and his followers who want to hang editors of a free press who disagree with them or keep Americans with names like Hassan or Abdul from flying in an airplane.

I'm guessing that you're talking about banning or constraining firearms. Certainly firearms is part of our way of lie, but so are any other rights supposedly protected by the Constitution.

I am sure that, the very first thing you did when you went into the service was to take an Oath to preserve, protect and Defend the Constitution of the United States, just like I did. I still keep that Oath, and it was about the entire Constitution, including a free press and peaceful protesting for redress of grievances. Freedom isn't about guns; freedom is about freedom.

If you equate planning for Hard Times as concentrating on guns (which I don't), I'm guessing I know and hang out with more "liberals" or "progressives" (which I'm not) than most people here, and just as many of them are concerned about pulling themselves and their families through disasters as we are. Furthermore, a lot more "progressives" than you think do not believe in banning guns; why else do you think there are liberal gun clubs springing up throughout the United States?

 

Those who cannot defend themselves won't be "free" for long.

 

They Will Seize Your Food and Resources: “Hoarding of Just About Anything Can Be Banned”

https://www.shtfplan.com/headline-n...of-just-about-anything-can-be-banned_07012013

 

It is the goal of the centralized government bureaucrats to make the masses dependent on government. Sheep are easy to herd ... as are sheeple. Those who stand with any anti-Liberty government, are dogs. They lick their master's hand and herd his sheep.

My dad told me as a boy, "Shoot'em through the lungs, boy. They'll go off somewhere else to die." He then shot a stray dog through its lungs. My dog tracked it into the woods, found the dead dog, took me to the dead dog. Dad was right, it went somewhere else to die.

 

Many liberal democrats dream of a one world socialist / communist government . To do that they realize they must disarm citizens so the can force them to kneel at the feet of their lords . Some are coming out of the closet and admitting they are socialist / democrats . Two come to mind that have admitted this Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders . A defenseless prepper is only making themselves a target for the unprepared . Live free or die should be the motto of any prepper .