Survival Retreats

Discussion in 'US States' started by branchd77, Jan 16, 2016.

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  1. branchd77

    branchd77 Administrator Staff Member Gold Supporter
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    If anyone knows of any good survival retreats can you post them?
     
  2. Vash

    Vash Member
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    I do not yet know any detailed place. Sorry, I do not yet own any hidden shelter/bunker/mansion in the mountain or in the woods. :)

    However, my logic tells me when things get really ugly, it is a better idea to leave large cities or towns and go for the country side. But of course it will be depended on the situation. I am talking about a total apocalypse here. The cities and large towns are too crowded to have enough resources for everyone. The country side has less competition for food and shelter, as well as it might still have some production of food going on, or at least there are more opportunity for you to find your own food than if you are still in a urban area.

    A farm in the middle of nowhere could be a great place to retreat to in case of a major disaster. You can try to produce your own food unless it is something like a global weather disaster. It is not without downside. Since it is a farm, it is in the open even if it is in a remote area. There is always the chance for some unfriendly or even hostile people come to your door.

    Hidden shelter/bunker in the mountain or in the jungle is also great. I guess underground bunker in the wild is the best choice if you are good at hunting and gathering, and/or if you have plenty of stored food there. Let no one find your shelter is a good idea in an environment that everyone is for himself/herself.
     
  3. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    yes, but how far will your average citizen walk when they are used to driving everywhere?
    going to a known retreat or a relatives farm is one thing, but wandering about just HOPING to find food, water and shelter is NOT "bugging out", its being a REFUGEE at the behest and control of anyone they might come across in their travels.
     
  4. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    Some will go nowhere! some will go a little way, some will go a fair way and some will go a long way!

    Talking to people some are of the raid and roll mindset! not many but there plan is just to raid a place, take what they can and roll on over and over again!
    Not a bad strategy for the younger adults if you are well armed compared to the local population!
    You just target a suitable building and swamp it with numbers, pick it clean and move on, hole up in a new house each night. A simple strategy so long as you only bite off less than you can chew each time and you do not have too much invested in the other members! no families!
    It is not something I would do! but others would!
     
  5. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    that is something that some say now, but that kind of "strategy" is a plan for a very short life.
     
  6. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    that is something that some say now, but that kind of "strategy" is a plan for a very short life.

    Yep but lots a young people are here for a good time not a long time!
    To some young men raid and roll is the go! I am not saying it is the way to go, just it is the way some will choose to go!

    I maintain contact with lots a people young and old, rich and poor, smart and stupid, city and country!
    I get valuable information from each!o_O
     
  7. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I maintain contact with no one outside of forums, most "ordinary" people are stupid and wont last 5 minutes after an event happens.
     
  8. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    Arh but to be ignorant of your enemy is halfway to defeat!
    Know yourself and know your enemy!
     
  9. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I didn't say I was ignorant of them, I just don't maintain contact with them.
     
  10. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    We have members that do not have a survival retreat . Perhaps we can throw some ideas or suggestions on the table as what to look for . It might help a member to think of something new to consider .
     
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  11. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    I recently posted on another unrelated thread but will repeat here as I think it needs more detailed discussion . Those fleeing to a government owned property with a natural water resource will likely quickly find themselves living in a squatter town of desperate starving people . Those planning to run to private property will find the landowner guarding his property and any other assets he might have . To me a privately owned location with a natural water source would seem to be the answer .
     
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  12. IBME

    IBME "ALASKAN"
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    I have that. And needing to sell all or part. but my issue is how do I do that safely....??

    I can't think of any safe way. The last thing I want is to disclose the location, and the first thing anyone wants is to know the location and the cost.

    When it is all said and done very few people have the kind of money to purchase property that "Really" could be a survival place.

    And nearly all properties that people would consider, are no where's near remote enough to avoid human problems.
     
  13. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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  14. GateCrasher

    GateCrasher Expert Member
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    Have you considered listing it with one of the "survival realty" real estate companies IBME? They cater to people buying/selling survival properties, can help keep your identity unknown to potential buyers (until the closing anyway), and you might get a better price for it since the buyers looking at those listings value things like no grid power, remoteness, or sustainable living features where most people would see those as undesirable. The wife has instructions to list ours with one if I go first.

    In my case, I inherited one retreat, bought one for less than $10,000, and built another on what some would call 'junk land' I acquired for about $2,000 an acre. The <10k one is a good example, it's a small 13,000 sq ft lot, came with two old campers that were clean and livable, a 70' well with hand pump, an outhouse, and borders state forest. Hunting cottage/vacation property for the prior owners that they rarely used anymore. Population density in the township is 4 people per sq mile. It was on the market for a couple years before I bought it, no electric service within miles, no running water, and the outhouse didn't make it appealing to many - but it is essentially a turnkey survival retreat ready to go. For someone looking to get into a survival retreat cheap I'd suggest staying away from the survival real estate companies and watch for hunting cottages or vacant land in the area they're looking at (after researching the area first of course). Waiting until the next recession might help too, second homes or cottages aren't very popular during a recession and people often have to sell them cheap. Another option is tax foreclosed properties that the state usually auctions off, I'm actually going to be bidding on a small parcel that borders one of my properties in the next couple months. In rural areas of many states there's no reason someone couldn't find a survival retreat for used-car prices.
     
  15. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    A very good post Gatecrasher . I had never heard of a "survival reality " so I learned something today .
     
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  16. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    I suppose most know but some may not . When purchasing land , most lenders such as a bank only require a ten or fifteen percent cash down payment then a monthly note is set up with the land you are purchasing being the collateral . For example a 20,000 dollar property will require from 2,000 to 3,000 dollar cash down payment . By combining financial resources with a close and like minded family member might make this more achievable . Sharing your survival property with another adult family member will instantly create a group .
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
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  17. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    `Something to consider if you are not going to make your retreat your main home , How are you going to get there in a worst case scenario ? If you may walk how far in a day do you and any family members think you can walk in a day and for how many days would you consider walking . Perhaps as in the case of an E.M.P an vehicle made prior to 1980 may run . Enough fuel for that vehicle to carry you to your retreat is vital . An old motorcycle may be an option . These are just things to consider before deciding how far out from your main home you are willing to look for that survival retreat . An old crop duster plane might work for some . Some might be surprised of the low cost of an old plane . Check them out on your computer .
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
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  18. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    I can see the advantages of having a survival retreat, but I have a few questions that don't have good answers. First, how do you plan to get there? Now I am assuming you do not live there. This is a cabin in the woods, off the beaten path, semi-remote location. How far is it from your permanent residence? If I can't drive I will be in a world of you-know-what. We do have bikes, but how far do you expect to be able to go, especially if you are carrying a BOB? Getting to your survival retreat could be a huge problem. When I see these survival bunkers selling for millions of dollars in BF Nowhere, Kansas I can't help but think, how do you expect to get there? Are they going to beam you aboard? In a SHTF event that would require living in an underground bunker you wouldn't have a Chinaman's chance of reaching that location.

    Secondly, what do you do for security? If you are keeping gear and supplies in that location what are you doing to make sure that gear and those supplies are still there when you get there? What plans have you made if you find when you get there that someone else got there first? They are having a fine time with all of your preps, and they aren't going anywhere willingly. Or when you get there the cupboard is bare because somebody helped themselves, and you have a roof over your head, and nothing else?
     
  19. IBME

    IBME "ALASKAN"
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    These are easy problems, at least in Alaska they have easy solutions. What you posted is more along the lines of rationalizing NOT having a safe retreat. This is a top shelf prepping for survival forum, with very knowledgeable members. However I have increasingly noticed that despite being knowledgeable, they rationalize the situation they have placed themselves into. And have a long list of excuses. This became crystal clear in the posts to my thread about walking. From there I started noticing abundant excuses as a common response.
     
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  20. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    I am not trying to rationalize anything. I asked what I thought were legitimate questions, and as of yet, I have not received any answers. I would like to hear your solutions, and then we could see if what you say will work in Alaska will work in Missouri.

    I would beg to differ that what you see as excuses I would see as reasons. We don't always place ourselves in situations. You play the hand that life deals you. When your health deteriorates with age, and walking is difficult to the extreme that isn't a situation you put yourself in. It is the reality of what has evolved, and there is very little you can do about it.
     
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  21. IBME

    IBME "ALASKAN"
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    I totally 100% disagree. If you can walk some, then walk more. If you can walk to the car, park the car further away. If you can walk to the kitchen, then walk back and forth to and from the kitchen. If you can walk 50 yards then walk 55 yards, if you can walk 440 yards then you just walked 1/4 mile.

    I see members post they are going to "Bug'in" and defend their home as necessary. Well, it sure might be necessary to run/walk from stopping an attack towards the front, to running to the rear of the house to mitigate an attack from that direction. Then race to the front again.
     
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  22. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    Sorry, but it doesn't always work that way. When you have severe health issues, in this case, lung issues. Walking more makes it worse. I understand building up endurance, but in our case it does more harm than good.
     
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  23. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    IBME, is that like losing the sight in your dominant eye and then not being able to shoot long guns with your non-dominant hand? Reason or excuse? I have lost over 50% of my lung capacity and no matter how I try, it ain't coming back. There are reason for not being able to do something and there are also excuses. Each person know which is which.

    Now in response to Morgan101. The logistic of a retreat, that you have to travel to, makes the chance of it being a valid option, poor at best. If you plan to live there or do live there, it is viable but if you have to travel any real distance (100+ miles) then it's validity fades. All the reasons you have posted hold true. How you will get there, what you will find when you get there and what you will be able to do if you get there -- all come into play. If the plan is to leave location A and then relocate to position B, which is 10 miles down the road or over the hill, maybe it will work. If you need to hot foot it 100+ miles, by foot or bicycle, then I wish you lot of luck, you are going to need it.
     
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  24. IBME

    IBME "ALASKAN"
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    You could have a "Caretaker" watch and keep maintained, living there. The caretaker could be a older family member with extensive skills.

    I had two lodges that were hundreds of miles from where I was at the time living. One was on Lake Clark and the other was much further down the Alaska Peninsula. So to have rapid access to them, I kept two personal airplanes in my front yard. A Cessna 180 (a four or five person) aircraft, and a PA-18-150 Super Cub (a one passenger + pilot) aircraft. Plus I had access to larger aircraft, including multi-engine planes if necessary.

    Another idea........To escape a city like Anchorage, Alaska many people live 30 or 50 or even 90 miles out of the city. Going North Anchorage has (6) Six lanes of highway. Many work from home, go to the workplace once a week for a meeting if necessary. I think living in a small remote coastal town would work. In Alaska there are towns at the end of very long gravel roads. There are hundreds and hundreds of cabins that even if you lived in Anchorage, you could fire-up your snow machine, your inflatable boat, dirt bike, etc. and haul'ass even if the roads were clogged solid.

    I'll say this about retreats..........unless it is far from other humans, I think it is nearly pointless. In a true massive SHTF event, humans will be the biggest risk, even friends and family, will present a degree of risk.

    The best thing is to simply live at your retreat. I will have to move from this location with-in the next few years. So I am shopping for a retreat location.
     
  25. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    And therein lies the rub. If folks need to be within a reasonable travel distance to a medical facility, then they are too close to civilization. If they are far enough into a remote area to be safe from other humans, they are at medical risk. It is like having your cake and eating it too. NOT going to happen. You want isolation, then you take the medical risks. If you want access to medical, then you have to contend with other humans. As pointed out by IBME, there are ways to help mitigate some of the issues of a remote "Retreat" but there are no fool proof ways to get to every "retreat". If the situation is a national emergency, then all flights could be grounded, under threat of being shot down. Travel by snowmobile or ATV or any other combustion driven conveyance will require the "Retreat" to be within the fuel capacity of the conveyance.

    Bottom line, the best choice is to live on site and not need to travel to a "Retreat". If you can't live at a "Retreat" learn and plan to survive at your current location. Prepare for where you are, not where it would be nice to live. That is not to say, you can't plan to evacuate from a weather problem or some other predictable local event. As I advised one of our members, when the storms are predicted, it is time to be some place else.
     
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  26. IBME

    IBME "ALASKAN"
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    Neither. I can shoot well, with (AMD) dominate (right) eye "IF" I use Non-optic sights.

    I can and do shoot left eye and left or right handed, using high powered optics. but can only do this off a rest.

    But 99% of my shooting is for bear protection, or some hunting. So I am disassembling the ultra long range optics, and in installing quality open or aperture type sights.
     
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  27. IBME

    IBME "ALASKAN"
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    In Alaska there are small towns like Seldovia, Alaska, or Anchor Point or Moose Pass, Alaska that are near hospitals.

    Small towns like Homer, Alaska and Seward, Alaska and Wrangell, Alaska have senior housing next to hospitals. And are each just a hundred yards from the Pacific Ocean.

    The town of Wrangell is on an island. This is one on my top five I am considering moving to.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrangell,_Alaska#Health_care
     
  28. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    All these places have humans to interact with. They are remote by urban standards but not by isolationist standards. You can be attacked by a person in a town of ten as well as a town of 100,00. You are either isolated or you are not. Granted smaller towns are better than the big metro cities but they are not the same as your place out in the boondocks.
     
  29. IBME

    IBME "ALASKAN"
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    If you look each up on a map, you see they are each surrounded by millions of acres of uninhabited wilderness. You just inflate your boat and be gone.
     
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  30. GateCrasher

    GateCrasher Expert Member
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    Lots of people have second homes and vacation cottages that are unoccupied most of the time. Burglar alarms, a nearby neighbor to keep an eye out when you're not there, chain and lock expensive stuff. Our township has a neighborhood watch that drives by once a week or so, I send them a couple bucks each year. Only one break-in in 50 years time here, what they stole didn't even make it worth filing a claim with the insurance company with our $500 deductible. I disagree you need to be miles away from ANY people, less is better but too deserted makes it tempting for criminals that find it too. Google Earth will find a cottage or garage anywhere. Ask Google to black it out on their satellite map and they'll do it, but now it's even more interesting (which is why I don't).

    As to travelling there if the SHTF, well, no plan is guaranteed to be perfect. Are we talking EMP, Ebola, or Extinction level comet impact? And that's just the few of the ones that start with "E" :) I like a second option besides just planning on the BOV filled with gear and clear roads to the BOL. Peddle bikes (or motorbikes/mopeds) taken with the primary BOV gives you a second option before having to result to the shoe-leather express, but part of the SHTF plan might be scout alternate routes and to bug-out early to beat the rush too. Motorized golf carts or a Razor (side-by-side offroad vehicle clone?) are options. Fun to use while you're there vacationing as well. Refundancy?

    Suppose my point is that you don't need a survival bunker or a dedicated "survival only" retreat. Buy some rural land or one with a cheap cottage, vacation with the family there, fish/hunt/hike/camp/guerilla garden, cache some supplies nearby. Dual use, enjoy the surroundings and have a good time cause the odds are you won't need to bugout and spend the rest of your life there anyway. We've been on the Eve of Destruction for decades, ain't happened yet. But, we never know so that's why we prepare - and two places to go beats one every time. Your kids or heirs will thank you too (Thanks again Dad!).
     
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  31. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    GateCrasher your post is right on the mark . Where I presently live , the property was bought as a vacation getaway . It was vacant mountain land that we would come to and set up a tent and spend a few fun days . We got to enjoying it so much we ended up building a home and moving there permanently . Now we have three homes built on the property with plans for more homes . We have grown our property from fifteen acres to nearly two hundred acres and are presently looking to buy up more property .
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
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  32. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    First I want to say , I am not focusing this post in reference to anyone . My sister runs a bed and breakfast in an area that is wooded but not actually remote . She has people from the big cites come to spend the night sometimes . She has told me how quite often the city folks become frightened when they find themselves not clustered up with other people . That for some may be the real reason they don't want to leave the crowds and go to a remote survival retreat .
     
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  33. Radar

    Radar Expert Member
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    then there are natural disasters that could mess things up for you and nobody controls those
     
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  34. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    Some of our members have seen my post in another thread about looking for "black holes" when making a decision about where to buy land, etc. but for the benefit of those who have not, here goes...


    "I relocated to my BOL alone many years ago and found it almost sight unseen, using a computer-generated map that was printed in a National Geographic magazine. It showed the world "at night." I looked for the blackest hole I could find that also had the other criteria I wanted. Bingo! The light pollution map was the guiding light for me.

    Here is an updated computer-generated version of that old map:
    https://www.lightpollutionmap.info/#zoom=4&lat=3690653&lon=-9729630&layers=B0FFFFFTFFFF"

    A "black hole" has so few inhabitants that electric lights do not show up on the map, and that is where I wanted to be. I am still there, over twenty years now.

    Of course there are other criteria to consider when making your selection, such as availability of water, etc., etc.

    .
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
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  35. Duncan

    Duncan Expert Member
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    At the risk of sounding like a broken record, this thread is just one more example why -- for most of us, anyway -- the whole concept of a survival retreat is more romantic fantasy than a solid approach to surviving (and prospering) when-and-if Hard Times come upon us. The average prepper does not live in Alaska, is not an expert woodsperson, and is not in perfect physical, mental, and emotional health.

    Look at it this way: You're a typical American male, middle aged, with a spouse and perhaps several children. You go to the gym when you have time, make that dentist appointment once a year, and maybe take the wife and kids to Potatostan State Park for a week in the summer.

    Something Bad happens and all of a sudden you've thrown away most of your support system except what you can fit in your BOB (which the rest of your family may or may not have), leave any sort of medical support behind you, and put yourself in a place which -- despite any preps -- is a very high-stress environment (especially to the rest of your family), crowded with a bazillion other people and their families, and something happens to little Suzie ... who can't stop vomiting ... and it isn't car sickness. Chances are the only medical work you've done is read the First Aid manual and ... where the hell is that book, anyway!!??!!

    Now Billy wants to go home, and your wife mentions that she always thought this was a stupid idea, anyway; and you can't seem to find that shortcut that Old Whatshisname was telling you about and WHY DID THE ENGINE LIGHT JUST GO ON!!??!!

    This is reality, people -- at least for ninety percent of us. Most of us simply don't have the money or the familial support to spend money on a place which we might never use. Dawn and I thought long and hard about this and figured out at our age (63 and 74 respectively) that we, like anyone else would have a low probability of survival. That's why we moved to the outskirts a small farm town in Idaho, where we still have the caring neighbors available and now are raising our own veggies and meat, milk, and eggs from our goats and chickens and trading for something else from our fruit trees.

    Plus, we have a clinic, small-town cops, and just about everything we need while still improving our chances when it comes to surviving an infrastructure breakdown. Who do you think is going to be better off if the excrement impacts the air-handler?
     
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  36. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Duncan, your post is one of the best examples of why I also think that if you are not living there, then the "Retreat" concept is more pipe dream than reality. You have just said it in a much nicer (and humorous) way.
     
  37. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    Beautifully stated. Excellent post. I share your sentiments exactly.
     
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  38. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    This thread was resurrected from the dead in hopes it might help someone to make a decision on whether a survival retreat was a sound move for them . As expected for some that is not a path they want to go down . With all the experience of people on here , there could probably be a book written based on experiences and ideas of our members . If it helped one member it is a topic well worth a discussion .
     
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