Tales From Green Valley Farm.

Discussion in 'Other Homesteading' started by Keith H., Jun 7, 2016.

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  1. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    This is a BBC production & a great series to watch. Made as only the British can when it comes to documentaries (& movies)this series on 17th century life on a 17th century farm is one of the best I have ever seen & I highly recommend it.
    Keith.
    The whole series can be seen on YouTube or on my blog at the link below.

    http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com.au/search?q=green+valley+farm
     
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  2. The Innkeeper

    The Innkeeper Expert Member
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    I really enjoyed this one and several of the series they did subsequently.
     
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  3. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Glad you liked it, I enjoyed them too. Even the later period series are well worth watching, such as the Victorian period farming.
    Keith.
     
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  4. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    any post TEOTWAWKI life will be more like tales from the green valley than the Victorian farm.
     
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  5. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Possibly, but horses were still being used, & many farms still have old horse drawn machinery laying around from that period. There are still many skills & recipes to be learnt from all these earlier periods, including the WW2 era.
    Keith.
     
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  6. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    maybe in Australia but there are few draught horses in UK these days and any machinery left is in a museum.
     
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  7. elkhound

    elkhound Expert Member
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    all areas wont be the same. lack of knowledge and skills lowers you on the food chain. 1,000's of years of history proves it. compare the americas to the east pre columbus. vastly different.

    one community is rubbing sticks together another is producing iron etc. etc. etc. it why rich and power families guarded knowledge and skill so much.it was their edge often to keep ahead of others.

    its why families has varieties of corn and more with family name on it and often guarded it.

    horticulture skills,animal husbandry skills use to be a guarded secret from others.it will again.

    also theres a lot of mechanically minded people on this planet.they just wont lay down and die or forget stuff...like i said in past..people strive to do. i just recently read from a phd person talking about one things humans done through out history...they traveled and traded...they found a way to do so...and probably will again..starting short distance and going farther out.the drive for various resources will drive it.
     
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  8. elkhound

    elkhound Expert Member
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    also a lot of old equipment was poorly designed and engineered..we have come much farther. my local amish community took a welder and materials and built a horse driven bandsawmill. horses walked on circle driving a gear box that had a PTO(power take off) type shaft running on ground into power head turning blade.the head was stationary and the log moved up and down rail as it was sawn.

    theres a lot of steel sitting around this planet.
     
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  9. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    there may be mechanically minded people who survive but the resources wont be there.
    we will have to start again from a basic level and put food on the table, anything else will be a bonus, but most things wont be available due to no electricity and no oil, refineries will be closed down. no smelters and no blacksmiths. probably no farriers either. a lot of trades have collapsed because they are no longer required in the technology age.
     
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  10. elkhound

    elkhound Expert Member
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  11. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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  12. elkhound

    elkhound Expert Member
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    dude you are not correct...theres tons of steel all over the place to be used.

    i do agree there will be areas..but like i said not all. i know of acres and acres of steel in scrap yards.gear boxes and tons of stuff that can be turned into items. just cause some are satisfied with basic doesnt mean all will be...and history sure proves that one. look at your own area at its history on that.
     
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  13. elkhound

    elkhound Expert Member
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    you have an absolute opinion about how it will be for all....i have one that there will be folks on low end and folks on higher end of survival.history shows it to be that. some paddled canoes while others were building ships and cannons and had steel making processes.
     
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  14. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I'm speaking from an English perspective, nobody ploughs with a horse anymore, that stopped when WW2 started if not before, the odd horse driven plough may be on a farm but most have been scrapped or are in museums.
    i'm also taking about POST TEOTWAWKI, nothing will survive without electricity or oil, most stuff is run by electronics which wont be replaces because the supply chain is broken.
    as for stuff lying about, it depends on how many survivors there are, if there are a large number of scavengers the supply wont last long and fights will be numerous.
     
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  15. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I KNOW how it will be, I've spent a lifetime studying the British population, forget the "blitz spirit" of WW2 that was over 70 years ago and different attitudes have arisen and most of it not good.
    building ships and cannons? what for and how? no electricity grid and no oil being refined.
    we will have to start at the basic level and adapt, anything along the lines of what you mention will be after everyone of these types of forums is long gone.
     
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  16. elkhound

    elkhound Expert Member
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    ...theres lots of scrap to be had. from farm/ranch equipment graveyards to junkyards for vehicles. theres auto junkyards here covering acres and acres. i think it would surprise you.
     
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  17. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    like I said it depends on the number of survivors. and their location. the nearest junkyard to me will not be a safe journey away post SHTF, some farm scrap may be available but farms near me are all stock rearing not arable.
     
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  18. elkhound

    elkhound Expert Member
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    what i said about some where paddling canoes while others were building ships and cannons was a contrast in comparison. the natives in americas were limited in boats and building while at same time euorpean and easterners were building sailing ships. hope you see the extreme differences in the two while both were living at exact same time.all places and people wont be the same.
     
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  19. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I think you are being a tad over optimistic but you are entitled to your opinion.
    we are both looking at it from our individual countries perspective which may be different.
    I still believe that Post TEOTWAWKI life, in Britain at least, will be more like Tales From The Green Valley" than anything else. but that's just me.
    I will agree to disagree.
     
  20. elkhound

    elkhound Expert Member
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    i dont disagree there will be many living like the green valley..but i know there will be others higher on the food chain or maybe correct wording higher standard of living/skills. plus there will be lots in between.

    one example from green valley...that cooking on that 'stove' inside to bake bread and such.good lord its archaic. what they could do is use a type of rocket stove to use less fuel thereby saving human energy/time as well as resources. instead of baking bread roll it out into tortillas or flat bread and make a batch and be done. theres more but only single example.

    my rural community every farm has a farm shop for repairs and such. theres some can only do basic stuff while others can fabricate parts and build.
     
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  21. elkhound

    elkhound Expert Member
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    @lonewolf give me a few i will give you some examples from that green valley about knowledge and skill.
     
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  22. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    again it will be down to numbers of survivors and their level of skill or lack of.
    the main criteria is going to be putting food on the table and obtaining drinkable water, without these two life will be very short.
    growing plants, animal husbandry even of smaller animals, hunting, trapping, fishing and foraging will take up a great deal of our waking hours, if not all of them.
    farm shops over here, where they do exist, sell food and nothing else.
    farmers supply stores which are a different thing, will go to the wall when the supply chain collapses and they have nothing left to sell.
    again I'm speaking from an English perspective which may be different to a US one.
     
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  23. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    don't forget that this was a Historian and 2 Archeologists and any "experts" were brought in from outside, REAL LIFE post SHTF wont be like that, we will have to have the skills and knowledge as no one will be coming to help us.
     
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  24. elkhound

    elkhound Expert Member
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    ok...first bit..i have used a team of oxen before and i also used a team of horse a few times but i have used a single horse a lot in my past in my younger days.what i am saying is based on my experiences coupled with being raised and living on a working ranch/farm/homestead perspective. i admit theres things i dont know but...here goes.

    that 'plowing' with oxen was awful. i know its a show and they wanted it to be authentic but i am talking about a modern times shtf deal. that crap they were doing was not worthy of word plowing...lol...more like ground scratching i have plowed more ground up pulling logs with a limb sticking out of it that wasnt trimmed close enough to trunk...lol...here were modern think goes into it.those oxen could have done a much better job pulling a modern disc.it would have been faster and safer and depended on exact disc cut as deep as they were getting with that 'plow'.they could have used something like a disc that has wheels on it to adjust depth but instead of disc used a few chisel points or cultivator points sweeps to break up that ground shallow.

    hand planting grains..i have hand planted grains several times and not used any type of grain drill. they were hand tossing/spreading.its really hard to get even coverage. simple solution..a seed hand broadcaster....theres various types from modern plastic ones holding a few pounds to canvas bagged ones going over shoulder with crank on side.

    that fells pony they were trying to use to cover seed. she was trying to be ornery. she needed to be worked a bit but also they were trying to guide her with just halter. a human cant just lead an ornery pony/horse. they needed a set of reign and what we call here a military levered bit. put various degrees of pressure on horses mouth to so a person is in control. also with reigns you can get off to the side and be out of danger area if he gets away from you and drags that tree top up and over you they were using to cover seed.

    edit to add...they could have used disc to get seed covered or used a cultipacker as well.

    see this is my idea of old coupled with modern to get something so much better and less effort and easier on all concerned..both critters,humans and the lands.

    sidenote..i just looked at a real nice stand of buckwheat a friend has. if its not to late and it makes grain i am going to harvest some to mess with it a bit as its not something i have been around and want to see what its like once grain is formed and ready for harvest.it was hand planted area.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
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  25. elkhound

    elkhound Expert Member
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    this is where respect for our elders and the skills they have being passed down generation to generation is actually a survival thing as families/tribes could die out and die off from not building on the shared knowledge accumulated from each generation building up said tribe/family.
     
  26. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    this is where you and I differ, post TEOTWAWKI we WONT be growing fields of corn or wheat or indeed FIELDS of anything.
    Post Collapse life will be:
    part self sufficiency,
    part self reliance,
    part Subsistence food growing,
    No outside help,
    No state aid or welfare,
    If you CANT make it, grow it, or scavenge it, you wont have it.
     
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  27. elkhound

    elkhound Expert Member
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    this exactly what i am saying..its about self sufficiency and subsistence..i am not talking about growing huge fields of grain.i am talking a few acres.those oxen and other critters need food in form of hay,grains,fodder etc. the livestock to butcher need fattening before slaughter. chickens need corn in winter..especially in cold climates for warmth.

    where and how did my posts include any outside help...i am talking about only doing and living directly in small rural community. did i post anything about outside aid? no...i am talking about doing all this on our own in our own shops or with items i can access all within just a few miles or directly.

    i was talking directly growing our crops and seed saving and threshing out and such.

    i am clueless how you got the above from my posts....

    its entire reason i am pro stocking of items needed..especially a farm shop for building items from wooden handles for hand tools to fabrication items like welder or cutting torches. and before you say it wont last i know it wont so it will be used sparingly and to be used for critical items to ensure my families survival .like building or rather modifying a disc to be used with a draft animal if need be.

    its takes some support equipment to maintain even the most basic items. a broken hoe handle. you need an axe and at least a knife to make a crude replacement handle. if you use draw knife and shavehorse you get an even nicer finished product to work with. hand tools that are being used often need the best built/made handle possible to cut down on friction causing hands to tire faster and to constantly blister hands.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
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  28. elkhound

    elkhound Expert Member
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    the harvesting of grain was awful at end...lol...they need a stye with grain cradle or what some call a cradle scythe...either way its easier and way faster...they had a scythe but it lacked the cradle on it to bundle/gather.one guy even going slow could have harvested the grain they did in fraction of time and effort.

    my dads close to 80yrs old and i have his cradle scythe along with other types.
    modern wheat averages something like 50 bushels to acre. hand broadcast will be lower. i suspect a half acre plot might yield 20 bushels. i have an old book coming with more secure real world information on that type info i was able to get my hands on.


    oats being harvested 1915



    look at ease and far less effort and nicer job being done with proper equipment and in much more timely fashion. a scythe is one of the most basic of tools. i have seen stone edged hand scythes found by archeologist from the stone age even.they found it was used on grain from material dna left on cutting edge.


     
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  29. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    both my wife and I have a history in farming, my wife in her own right and myself through family connections, mother was a farmers daughter and my half sisters late husband was a ploughman who worked with horses, a good ploughman it is said can plough one acre a day with a good pair of plough horses, its quicker with a tractor which is why in WW2 they all went over to mechanisation. which wont be available post SHTF due to unavailability of fuels and oils.
    we will also only be able to work enough land that we have the labour force for and can easily control that land. I have lived of grid so I know how much work it takes .
    I have always said the larger the group then the more land will be needed, the more land that is needed the bigger work force one will need, its sort of self perpetuating, there is a lot to be said for smaller groups. maybe coming together in times of need, barn raising, harvesting or security.
    there is a certain chain of thought in some prepping circles that perhaps it wont be that bad and it will all get back to normal very quickly, I do not subscribe to those thoughts.
    Tales from the Green Valley even with all the so called experts advising was still a fairly basic rural lifestyle, but this was only ever a Historical Reinactment not a "how to do" manual, however I do think post collapse lifestyle will not be exactly like this but "in the style of".
     
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