The Dangers Of Trade. Your Thoughts?

Discussion in 'The Apocalypse' started by Keith H., Jun 26, 2016.

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  1. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Winter Trade By Robert Griffing.

    In the 18th century during the fur trade period traders would supply various goods to the Indians in exchange for animal skins. The Indians became dependent on some items of trade, & thought it was a fare exchange, animal skins for white man goods. They in the main did no harm to the traders because they wanted the trade to continue.
    The white traders made a lot of money by trading in deer skins & furs & so in the main dealt fairly with the Indians. Some white traders may not have been as honest in their dealings with the Indians, but on the other hand they had to be careful not to anger or alienate the Indian trappers. Both sides wanted this trade to continue.

    Post TEOTWAWKI traders will have no continuing supplies, unless it is fresh home grown vegetable produce they are trading. What they have, is all they have. There will be no more trade goods other than those they accumulated pre shtf. Unless they can trade off the goods that they take in trade, but then what is the trader's gain, as no money is involved?

    Why would people trade away useful items that they can use themselves for other items they want? They may trade items they do not need, but then would the trader want these items? What if people did NOT have anything to trade with? Why wouldn't people simply kill the trader & take all they have? If there are no further supplies, what have they got to lose?
    Keith.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2016
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  2. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    Faulty logic there!
    Goods will still be produced and traded!
     
  3. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    Contact with outsiders is a huge risk puts you in danger of illness takeover and death get prepared get set up the time you spend now on getting ready will pay off with alot of good when its needed AVOID CONTACT WITH OUTSIDERS
     
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  4. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    for once, I couldn't agree more Tom.
     
  5. Vatheri

    Vatheri New Member
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    I think in apocalyptic situations the less contact you have with people outside of your trusted group is better. When people lose everything in an apocalypse, when they are desperate to feed a starving child, or they need the medicine you have to survive, etc, etc.. They can't be trusted. There isn't much incentive to not harm or kill you for your goods if they believe it would be an easy option. That being said, the best option to protect yourself in this situation other than avoiding it entirely is being well armed enough to deter them from considering violent option.

    In other words, you are significantly less likely to be a victim of an exchange if you and your party have weapons and means to defend yourself. If you don't have means to defend yourself, I wouldn't depend on the pure-hearted kindness of strangers in need of your goods.
     
  6. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    forget trade for a very long time post SHTF, and i'm talking YEARS not months, anyone foolish enough to attempt trading before this is liable to be attached for all their wordly goods and probably injured-or worse- in the attempt.
     
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  7. John Snort

    John Snort Well-Known Member
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    It will be safe to trade only after people have stopped murdering each other for supplies they have. At that time I suppose people will have started to live in communities again and each community will have leaders who'll enforce laws [those which actually matter at that time]. I believe at that time trading wouldn't be too risky. Before that, you'd have to make-do with whatever you have.
     
  8. joshposh

    joshposh Expert Member
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    In a civilized world, trading would be the answer to everything. Supply and demand. If I have an abundance of potatoes, then why not trade it for some fish. Pretty simple concept in a civilized world where there is law and order. In a dooms day scenario, there is no law and infrastructure is gone. I think those that have nothing or are just plain greedy, is where the problems exist. These people turn into marauders and they take what they want without the care of human liberties and life.

    In other threads I have talked about stocking up on things that you would actually trade for, coffee and tobacco are some of them. I don't need it to survive, but I'm sure others would trade for it. To be honest in prepping that is the last thing I'm thinking about is stocking up on things I don't need to survive. But when presented with the question, "what would I trade", then I would say coffee and tobacco. But in true life, that would be the last thing on my mind and stocking list.
     
  9. willywonka

    willywonka Member
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    You can bet that I will be showing my dominance and power when trading. Trading is such a dangerous thing if you do not know the person you are trading with. It is like doing a dance of displaying power and showing that you can't be easily overrun. I will probably never trade alone, because as a woman, I might get taken advantage of.
     
  10. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I will be storing what I need post SHTF, I suggest everyone else does the same, its called being prepared, don't trade-don't trust other people, it just isn't safe and wont be for generations.
    if you cant make it or repair it, then learn to live without it.
     
  11. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    Ya can't store everything!

    How many courses of the three main antibiotics do you have?
    Do you stock a replacement wife?
     
  12. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I couldn't agree more(apart from the replacement wife bit!:p who needs a replacement wife??)
    like I said, if you cant store it, learn to live without it.
     
  13. koolhandlinc

    koolhandlinc Expert Member
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    ROFL some of these last posts made me smile.

    Ok, someone who has horses make a bargain to use the horses to pull disc's over anothers garden area in exchange for supplies. Another has several cases of canning jars. Another asks if they hoe the garden for some food.

    So the person with horses helps 20 or 30 others by doing plowing and such. They good fresh and canned good in exchange.

    The person with the garden gets some of the heavy work completed and so saves a lot of work on the garden and produces more food.

    A person shows up with soap and bargains for soap. They need fire wood and any fresh food possible.

    The person with the garden trades for soap and says this other person has a fire wood production system that used a odd set up to run an engine and ends up with electric chain saw he uses for cutting and sizing. He needs more chains for chain saws. Will barter for wood and chains and possibly some oil. This guy also has a system that will charge 12 volt car batteries and can charge batteries for you.

    Another guy has a gasifier he built onto a pick up truck. He can drive 2 hundred miles on a load of wood. A bunch of local people decide to travel about searching for stuff that can be used for projects. medicine, vitamins, food, special supplies for canning, etc etc etc

    The old person down the street says she can teach people to can if it will help.

    The people who live on will have things they are good at. The people who can't be trusted will be weeded out with time. Labor and knowledge will be bartered at first was well. Not in the beginning but with time. Trading will occur.
     
  14. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    not for a long time will trading be safe, i'm not talking weeks or months here, but years, maybe never. by the time trading would be safe you've probably used up anything you've stored anyway.
     
  15. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    As far as trading during hardtimes, let me illucidate a bit about interactions with the Indians here in America's Southern Appalachia.

    I'm going to present history / background (and ramble a bit) for two paragraphs:

    Genetically (I've done the DNA tracking) and culturally, I am 97% Scots-Irish Hillbilly (Ulster followers of William, i.e. Protestants, lived in the hills + pro-William = hill-Billies = hillbillies, slang). My grandfather played the banjo, my dad the guitar, ... . Tennessee Ernie Ford was a friend of the family. We were of the Over Mountain Men (Colonel Sevier's contribution to the lot who left out of Sycamore shoals, crossed the mountains, and cleaned the clock of Ferguson's Brits on King's Mountain. Did our lot interact with the Cherokee? Kinda-sorta when you consider family bibles having the names of the Cherokee with whom they intermarried (genetically, I have no Cherokee in me, or precious little). The Trail of Tears did NOT include many (if any) American Indians from up in these hills. Would you want to have come and gotten them, especially considering that the hillbillies would also have been fighting on their side?!

    The relations between hillbillies and the Cherokee were as complex as complex gets. One season it would be all totally smooth sailing -- trading and family relations all civilized to the max. The Cherokee were/are a civilized people and are by-God smart. Another season turns and some Cherokee or hillbilly gets a fire in their belly and all hell breaks loose and a bunch of folk get killed. Plus, there was infighting among the whites and there was infighting among the Indians. Welcome to our species, now add the factor of Southern Appalachia having no shortage of thermonuclear emotions. Both the Scots-Irish and the Cherokee are as hot-blooded a lot as you will ever want to meet. This place was not post SHTF, it was ongoing SHTF. This place oscillated back and forth between heaven and hell.

    Now to the point:

    Where people are leather-skinned and afraid of nothing, trade and marriage and playing music and making liquor and everything else human will continue SHTF or no SHTF. Just the other night I was drinking liquor outside a black man's place along with a Hispanic fellow you'd not want to cross. One wrong word could have resulted in hospitalizations or dirt blankets. Now given such a motley crew, add SHTF and people coming in and trying to do evil in this area of homes. Let me tell you, given that, the three of us would kill the bejesus out of any and all of those given to such interloping. Tell you something else, we'd have not just remained only three. More would glom together with us -- ex-military, workers of every kind, ex-felons (no shortage), women who could more than hold their own, ..., and an equilibrium, however tenuous, would return to this place. Any outsiders would become ambient temperature and in short order. Children and grandchildren are being raised in this place, so whatever differences, animosities, racial bigotries, economic impediments, hell, high-water, cosmic radiation, cooties, the worst of SHTF potentialities, doesn't matter, humans are going to take care of their youngin's and go on with life.

    Weak people may lose sphincter control and tip over dead. Who knows? But then, weak people have never been and will never be any part of what constitutes a robust future. Robust is the only form of future, by the way. Iron-hearted folk are going to go on. They recognize each other. They form commerce of every ilk with each other. They go on. Become one or get out of the way.
     
  16. TexDanm

    TexDanm Master Survivalist
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    I wouldn't want to open a to public trading post for a long time after things went to pieces but that doesn't mean that I won't have need of trading materials. Nor does it mean that I won't probably be doing a lot of swapping for things. Money might not have much meaning but I am surrounded by wealth and things that I will want to possibly buy later. I don't have a ranch but I live in ranching country. I will be able to buy meat of all sorts with my trade goods. Then there will be some of the medical things and services that I might wish to pay for. This won't be for trading with strangers, it will be within my local area.

    Why would they sell me meat? Because they will have so much on hand that without refrigeration it is almost valueless to them. What do you do with 200 cattle when You can't eat it all before it spoils and you already have more of it stored as canned, jerked, salted and smoked than you can ever eat!!! The same is true if you have 50 chickens or 25 goats or pigs. You keep the adults but you HAVE to get rid of the children of you will have more than your land will support. What do you do with 25 acres of corn? You trade it for other things! Those folks with pigs will want the corn for the pigs and hapily trade corn for meat. This is the way country people have been living forever. It isn't going to stop if things elsewhere goes to crap everywhere else.

    Let me take a moment to tell you how things really are in the country NOW. Lots of people that just want a few cows for milk and a little meat don't keep a bull. The same is true of pigs. You don't keep a boar for three or 4 sows. If you are running cattle, every few years, you find another rancher and trade bulls so you don't have too much inbreeding. A really big place has several bulls and keeps track of when it needs to be done. Small ranchers with 25 or 30 cattle have to watch it closer. You can tell when you waited too long because you will start having derivatives in the cattle's horns. To a lesser extent you have to eat your rooster occasionally and get another form a neighbor. People with more land than cattle bail it and then trade or sell to ranchers that have more cattle than land. Most of the time farmers share combines and such because they are too expensive for something that you only use for a few weeks a year. That is what they mean when you hear them talking about Co-ops.

    While trading may seem alien to urban folks I assure you that the rural people in your nation are keeping this ancient and worthy practice very much alive.
     
  17. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I live out in the English countryside and we still have a weekly market, had one since the 12th century here, sadly I don't think it will be for much longer as the market site is up for sale.
     
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