The first rifle ffor people who dont know guns

Discussion in 'Gun Comparisons' started by Tom Williams, Jun 19, 2016.

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  1. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    A great little rifle for people who are not use to a firearm is a simple little 22lr rifle called the cricket its short light single shot easy to learn with at a fair price of 139 bucks brand new this little rifle is well made very fine shooting rifle i have two very old ones that work great for a day of plinkin a sit under a tree for squirrels and is a great carry on the trap line these fine little rifles are a smart buy to learn about guns on and a fine little work horse after you are use to it yes its a single shot never jams easytoclean and care for its a great little rifle
     
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  2. CivilDefense

    CivilDefense Expert Member
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    My niece has a Cricket. Neat little .22 rifle. A Ruger 10/22 is another good starter rifle. They can be had for a couple c-notes, give or take, and aftermarket magazines parts are available pretty much everywhere. They're pretty easy to maintain too.
     
  3. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    Semi auto for someone just learning notbest choice jams and the abilty to just spray rounds let them learn basic saftey and to make each shot count one shot one kill better than spray and did i hit anything in survival each round counts make best use of ammo
     
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  4. Doubletap45

    Doubletap45 New Member
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    A semi auto can be a good choice if you're only buying one gun. Kids have to be taught to handle a rifle responsibly. If they are not old enough for a semi auto, chances are they are not old enough or mature enough for a single shot. You can also only load one or two rounds in a 10-22 magazine. Gives the kid good practice in changing and loading mags.
    Every situation is different, sometimes a single shot or bolt gun may be best, but don't count out the semi auto if you feel your kid has the maturity.
    Nothing wrong with the rifle the OP mentioned. Great price also.
    My 2 cents
     
  5. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    No kid of mine under 16yo gets a gun unless it is zombies!
    I will not make children into combatants!
     
  6. Doubletap45

    Doubletap45 New Member
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    I don't think younger kids should have a gun that they have control of. That said, knowing how to safely handle a weapon when a child is mature enough to do so is not a bad thing. Much depends on the kid themselves. As a parent, you make the choice.
    My kids were taught to shoot at about the age of 10 years old. They were taught to never touch a gun as soon as they could understand what a firearm was, and they respected that. I used to leave an unloaded gun laying out to test them. They were taught to tell me or their mother if they saw a gun unattended, to never touch it. They always came to us and didn't touch the weapon.
    Partly because I took them out when young and showed them what a gun could do if they were to someone if they handled one and it went off. A few jack rabbits with big holes through them from a 30-06 with 110 grn soft point bullets made a huge impression. They saw what a gun could do. They were not scared by this; they learned to respect what a firearm could do. Guns have always been a part of our daily lives. They saw me target shoot from a young age in the back yard and as a LEO, I carried a firearm with me daily.

    I will never tell someone when or even if they should teach a child to handle a weapon. That is a choice every parent who owns a weapon has to make. In my experience, with mature kids and keeping weapons lock up when not in use, it's more of a benefit. Kids are curious about things they don't know about.
    In my parents and grandparents time, a loaded firearm was kept by the front door. That was the way it was. Times may have changed , but there are so many things that can injure or kill a kid and we let them be around them every day. That said, other kids who came over to the house were not taught how to safely handle guns, it is a different world today, so weapons were never left unlocked.
    I never wanted my kids to be "Warriors" at a young age. That is not why they were taught gun safety and gun handling. It was for their safety. A kid never taught gun safety is very likely to pick up an unattended gun (in your home or someone else's home) and pull the trigger. A kid who has been taught gun safety won't, they know better.

    As a parent, gun training is up to you and your beliefs. You know your kids better than anyone. In any case, in todays world, guns should not be left unattended, loaded or unloaded when kids are around. I still make sure my guns are put up when my Grandkids come over. They have all been taught firearm safety by their parents, but I'm not going to risk an accident.
    Guns can be deadly, but so can a bath (way more kids drown in the bathtub than are killed by a firearm), crossing the street, climbing high in trees, the knife in the kitchen drawer. Yet when we judge kids to be mature and old enough, they are allowed to take a bath without constant supervision, let to go out and cross a street and do many other things that could get them killed. Common sense is always the rule of the day.
     
  7. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    I am a firearms instructor ive bee teaching firearms saftey and shooting longer than most of you been alive i have a sheriff and 6 state troopers ive instructed now i have a 19 year old young lady going to rio to shoot for the usa team the single shot one shot one kill saves ammo the spray of ammo from a semi burns ammo up IN SURVIVAL ONE SHOT ONE KILL IS A MUST FOR HUNTING OR DEFENCE. Semi take tear down and clean after shooting to a level someone with no knowlege of guns would be in trouble with jamming
     
  8. Doubletap45

    Doubletap45 New Member
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    You make some good points Tom. The thing one must look at is that in a SHTF situation (and many others), you are likely to encounter more than one threat at a time and getting a good solid hit the first time on a real person, who is moving or partially behind an object, while bullets are flying at you is not always going to happen.
    One shot does not always put a person down either. I speak from experience.
    If someone chooses to carry a semi auto weapon, they should also know how to clear jams and maintain that weapon.

    Congrats on your Daughter going to Reo to shoot for Team USA. You must be darn proud !
     
  9. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    Not my daughter she local girl that started shooting with us at 7 and kept going great kid we are proud of her survival in a firefighttakes a cool head where you pick your shots conserve ammo after shtf this is more important due to fact ammo is going to be hard to get rare ammo made overseas even harder iown 114 guns none are cals made overseas and cals that are very common so ammo is easy to get i have a mini 14 great gun but for knockdown power very poor we use 3006 m1s and 308 m14s for this hit with these from us we pretty sure your not getting up
     
  10. Para173

    Para173 Well-Known Member
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    Don't forget that lever action saddle carbines offer a good choice for new shooters too. They are easy to learn to use.
     
  11. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    lever are great new ones have safteys that make them better. one shot at a time makes a person make the shot count. this makes a single shot better they become better with the working of the action loading unloading
     
  12. Para173

    Para173 Well-Known Member
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    I've been thinking about a first weapon idea. I teach firearms to novice shooters in my area. There is no such thing, to me, as a perfect first weapon. There are better options depending on different factors. For example, does the shooter have any physical problems? What kind of area or shooting scenario does the user plan to find themselves in or needing to survive? Can they be taught to make maximum use of their firearms, tactics and gear? But assuming that I have a decent starting point with the shooter and so on, I would think that any shooter I would want to instruct I would want them to layer their firearms. Firearms are like any other tool: they break, jam and malfunction. Because of the potential for trouble a smart user plans ahead and would have a back-up plan. What that means is a minimum of two guns, not one, ready to go at all times.

    Your primary firearm should be a scoped rifle of some kind. A scoped rifle gives you enhanced accuracy, especially at close range. You really are not looking to turn your rifle into a sniper rifle but you are looking to enhance the accuracy like the ACOG and SUSAT scopes have done for the U.S. and British military forces. A simple 4X or 4 power scope can do wonders for the average shooter without going to great extremes.

    Your secondary firearm should be a pistol of some kind. The idea behind the pistol is that you would use it for close range combat or when your primary (rifle) fails to properly function. Your pistol should be kept simple so that it isn't complicated and won't fail you because of problems like lack of batteries.

    Your next weapons should be weapons you choose for melee fighting or close quarter battle. These weapons include tomahawks, hatchets and fighting knives. These weapons are back-ups to your rifle and pistol. They also give you a silent option for engaging a bad guy should you need to do so.

    So, my suggestion for a good overall survival rifle: a scoped AK of some kind. They were designed to be used by illiterate Russian peasants in the bitter cold of a Siberian winter. They come in 3 main calibers with the original caliber, 7.62 X 39, being a good choice even today.

    For the handgun, I suggest a good 9 mm or a good .45 acp pistol. Both of these are military and police rounds. The .40 caliber S&W pistols come next. Any of these 3 calibers/millimeters make for a decent choice as long as you practice with them.

    By and far, the best overall fighting knife is the Kabar. Military people prefer it hands down. Don't get me wrong, there are other good knives out there. Pick the one that you prefer. The key is to have one handy when you need it.
     
  13. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    ive instructed many students one just won gold in rio very proud of her we start young students age 8 most. off the time with the single shot little cricketit size fits the student well as they grow and improve other weapons are added tothe course by age 12 legal hunting age here they have takein the hunters safety course and passed it theyhave used 22 shotguns and light rifles 243 many times theyknow safety and shooting well age 14 and above we start pistol training with 22 revolvers we teach hunting and target shoot ing to students not military tatics semi auto rifles are only on the range fri eve and sat morn and they are not owned by the club all student here know firearms well how to use and how to maintain them. this was set up as a suggestionfot peole who dont know firearms and is a safe very good 22rifle to learn with
     
  14. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    Tom, how do you reconcile with yourself or your god for making child soldiers?
     
  15. Para173

    Para173 Well-Known Member
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    Child soldiers? That's kind of cold, isn't it? Tom is talking about RECREATIONAL shooting for the most part and basic survival shooting in an emergency situation. I don't think that anybody who is American, British, Australian and so on make "child soldiers." Me? I see survival in a different way because I understand history to be a violent thing. History involves combat, primitive survival in hostile areas, lousy terrain and so on. When I was in a war zone, I found that the people who made child soldiers were the ones who were heartless and killed a kid's family. After a kid loses everything and everybody, they often turned themselves into killers on their own. I saw kids as young as 10 and 12 who wanted a piece of the communists' rear ends because of what they had done to the kids' families. They would go out of their way to find, kill and mutilate an enemy soldier when they could do so. But fun in the sun isn't producing child soldiers. Teaching kids about the science of ballistics, math, bullet drop (gravity) and so on is far from wrong.
     
  16. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    Tom knows what he is doing, he's been at it longer than we have been alive or so he says!
    He schools them in shooting and shooting is shooting! it sure as hell ain't tiddly winks!

    So when are child soldiers acceptable?
    And yes it is cold but not as cold as a childs body after it loses that firefight!
    concequences matey
    Talk is easy to bury your child is far far worse!
     
  17. Para173

    Para173 Well-Known Member
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    Arkane, recreational shooting is a lot different than military or combat shooting. Teaching children to shoot at paper targets is not teaching them to be soldiers. I've taught both of my sons to shoot and neither one of them have become military people of any kind. I think that I'm the last of the soldiers in my family unless one sneaks in down the line many years from now. Over here in the U.S., 99.99% of our shooters are not military people. Most are either hunters or sports shooters of some kind. For every lone anti-gun nut that we have over here, we have at least 20 people who are pro-gun. That's why, really why, the anti-gunners can't win in the legislatures. They don't want to admit it openly but any wins that they do make are always temporary in nature and will eventually be overturned either in courts or in follow-up legislation. So, child soldiers end up being a myth until you get in combat or actually go to a war zone. It is in a war zone that you will find child soldiers who are seeking revenge against the evil people who hurt or killed their family members. But sports shooting should never be equated with some distorted liberal agenda propaganda item like child soldiers.
     
  18. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    Para173
    I have to disagree with you there! but I have neither the time or care to debate it!
     
  19. Craig K. Thomas

    Craig K. Thomas New Member
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    Maybe a beginner will be fine when start shooting with some type of guns like: 22 caliber rifle, Shotgun, and Bolt action centerfire rifle which you just add an ar 15 scope as I introduced on My homepage, that is good enough.
     
  20. SgtB802

    SgtB802 New Member
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    I disagree it's all how you teach them my son has been around them since he was a small child and was tight to leave them alone. When he was big enough to start shooting from a bench he was started with a 22 single shot. At 8 my soon took his first deer with black powder and he loves the outdoors hunting and fishing a lot better than Xbox in my mind. My son has his own firearms and even has a 22 pistol for running the trap line the thing is you don't have to turn them into a soldier to teach them responsibility and safe firearm handling. Another thing is if you teach them young they have less curiosity about them when they get older. One of first things I showed my son was I shot a watermelon with a 300 win mag at 40 yards and explained how dangerous they are. He still tells his friends to leave them alone and they are dangerous if you don't respect them.
     
    1. Ystranc
      Yup, you've got to watch out for those watermelons, the damn things will getcha if they can....shoot'em on sight:D:D:D
       
      Ystranc, Sep 6, 2017
  21. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Expert Member
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    I began teaching my kids to shoot when they were around age 11 or 12. A starter rifle to consider is the Henry lever action series of .22 rimfire (non-magnum) rifles. These rifles are made in America, hurrah! I have one in .22 magnum ( I've owned rifles and revolvers in this cal. for over 40 years) and it is a splendid / cute rifle that my wife and I both love to shoot.

    Back when, the tiny Chipmunk .22 rifles didn't have good enough steel for high velocity .22 ammo. The bolt set back for the one I bought my daughter. I recommend only .22 standard velocity ammo, or better yet, .22 CB caps to be shot in these tiny bolt-actions from Italy. Low energy ammo also does not give off the report of H.V. ammo.
     
  22. LilSoldierGirl

    LilSoldierGirl Well-Known Member
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    I note that this topic is about those new to shooting, not children new to shooting.

    I was introduced to shooting several weeks before going into the army. On a family farm I went from bolt action .22lr to 308 in 30 minutes. Emphasis was on safety, trigger control and breathing.

    Within weeks of my first shot I was regularly shooting assault rifles and light machine guns. Within 12 months medium machine guns, pistols and grenade launchers were added to that list.

    I performed very well, usually outshot all the boys except the country boys. In my opinion it's not the gun that is important, but the quality of the instruction.
     
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  23. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Expert Member
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    Excellent!
     
  24. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    Ruger 10-22 is the easiest r.f. rifle on the planet to customize into any you feel a .22 r.f. should do.

    I've "built" a number of them and the only thing left that was original was the receiver.
    I have one left that I built up to suit me and only me.
    Shilen heavy barrel, Kidd parts, adjustable stock, and more.
    Getting .05" at 50 yards with any decent ammo is easy and .250" with target or match grade ammo.

    This 10-22 is for hunting so 1/2 inch at 50 is way more than necessary.
    Still "only accurate rifles are interesting."
     
  25. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    Most likely every gun owner here knows that.

    "youll only deliver 1 moa from a bench rest"

    I don't understand the meaning and context of that statement.

    One m.o.a. from what distance and with what firearms, etc.?

    'Splain please.
     
  26. Ystranc

    Ystranc Well-Known Member
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    I'm pretty sure that Tom is only recommending the single shot cricket as a first gun for a young shooter. No-one is expecting them to shoot anything more then a squirrel or a bunny and no-one is expecting them to go into combat.
    One small point Tom, I wouldn't encourage kids to "sit under a tree to shoot squirrels" as you describe at the beginning of this thread because there is no adequate back stop.
     
  27. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    I'd LOVE to have a Cricket .22 rifle. I'm 70, been shooting since 10 and have a lot of nice
    firearms but the l'il Cricket is sooooooooooooooooo cute!:D

    My the by f.w.i.w. I just ordered a case of Federal hi vel h.p.

    5250 rounds.
    Not because I need more but because it was a super great buy @ 3.7 cents a round.

    Fed. isn't even my favorite rim fire ammo but it's plenty good 'nuff.

    When that ammo comes in I'll have at least 20,000 rounds of .22 r.f.

    That orta hold me a while.:p

    (actually my goal is 50,000 rounds of .22 r.f. on hand)
    (so I'm o.c.d.!) :>)
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2017
  28. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    Been thinking about the question "first rifle for those who don't know guns" and changed my
    mind to............................NONE!

    The FIRST thing a newbie needs to do is LEARN...........READ, and READ some more.

    Then find people that DO know firearms and talk, and listen, listen, listen.
    Ask questions then LISTEN some more and I don't mean listen to the unshaven, unkempt,
    smelly, pot gut, beeroholic, next door either.
    READ!
    Ask questions here please.
    I'm a certified instructor in almost every hand and should fired firearm made.
    I DO NOT teach any longer. Too many idiots and I don't want to get shot or sued. (again)
     
  29. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    Good post.
    I prefer stealthy to sneaky.

    I once posted about sneaking into a neighbors woods and some bozo thought I was illegal
    and pouching and ripped me on a site. Idjit.
     
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